wynter

Hi,
Coming from a bad situation yesterday with RA. This isn't the first time this kind of thing has happened, and I'm trying hard to cope, understand (if possible), and take care of my needs. Right now not doing so well.

RA supposed to come by after meeting, stay the night. We had plans for the next day, going out of town. He had been over for dinner, (which was nice), but I kinda got the feeln he'd rather just go back to his own place after meeting. I didn't push him, but he said ok, he'd come over later.

It was almost 11 o'clock and still not heard from him. His meeting was over around 8:30, and he had to get a few things, and then drive time. Still...could have texted or called and told me he was running late, right?

He didn't. I called, left vm, and texted if he was coming. Got no reply. When he showed up I was upset, which turned into angry (which he's not at all comfortable with of course). Asked him why he was so late. He gave me some quick answer. He was short with me and I could tell was angry that I was asking him these questions, like how dare I? This whole scenario lasted about two mins tops. He took off his shoes at door, and then put them on and said 'all you want to do is fight', and left. I was goin to do my usual and try to talk some sense in him, but didn't like how he was treating me. Felt I was giving up my self-respect. I felt again that my feelings weren't important. It was kinda like, oh well, and I should be ok with it. Usual...and then we bury it, never to be discussed, b/c its all so uncomfortable.

I did call him and apologized for getting angry. Really, this sounds worse here...it was nothing. Explained on vm. Sent him text. He is not responding. It hurts like crazy. Why do they do this? Why is it always about their lives, their feelings? Is this something that will get better the longer he is sober, or god forbid he's gonna be this selfish sob forever?

Usually I run run run after him...think he likes that. (at my expense). My life situation has changed recently, and I'm in an emotional place where I do need him...so this pains me further when I see he can't or won't.

Right now don't want to lose him. Is this usual behavior for RA's? I'm tryin my best to be objective. Part of me thinks I am just not that important in the scheme of things, and that he really doesn't love me. I don't want to be the clingy/needy codie here.

My gut tells me to step back, see what he does without me doing the push, pull, yank, tug dance. But it's killing me.

Any help, so very much appreciated. Thanks

lizatola

Yes, you're doing the dance with him right now. When you contact him, is there any way you can just do 1 thing instead of trying different ways to get him on the phone. I call once or text once, my AH, and then let it go. I don't keep trying to get him to come home or answer me or tell me where he is, because I know he'll probably just lie or make up some bulls*it answer anyway. Why push for an answer when you know it's probably going to be excuses that will anger you in the first place?

My AH was willing to 'almost' miss his son's 14th birthday party on Friday because he had to run to the gas station and to go to Staples. I certainly was NOT going to wait around for him to come home when I had 3 eager teenagers ready to go play. If he wanted to make it on time, that's his choice. If it wasn't important enough for him to go, then that's his choice too. By the way, he pulled into the driveway as I was pulling out so he did get to go. But, the fact that he didn't care about whether he would make it or not, just goes to show how selfish and self-serving most A's are(and that goes for RA's as well from what I've heard). Normal dads don't make Staples a priority in their life, over their children, do they?

Nothing an A does is normal. It sounds like you have a lot of unmet expectations from someone who isn't capable of meeting them. If you have emotional needs, he obviously isn't the one to meet them. Do you have support from elsewhere? Friends, Al Anon, family?

I'm sorry that you're hurting. You're a strong woman, keep the focus on YOU and just let him do what he's going to do. I always remind myself that I can't control anyone or anything else, other than me.

Pelican

Sometimes I feel like modern technology is not in my best interest. I say this from years of working in retail and having customers stop their conversation/transaction to take a call on their cell phone ~ or reply to a text message.

I remember when there were two phone in our home growing up. One in the kitchen and one in my parents room. If we were outside, we missed the call. If we were off running errands, we missed the call. But, we didn't get upset that we missed a call ~ because we didn't know we had missed anything.

Later, answering machines told us when we missed a call. And I remember being taught the proper reaction to the missed call was to drop what we were doing (putting away groceries) and return the missed call immediately.

Then years later with computer technology, emails were delivered. I remember observing the behavior of returning the emails immediately so the senders feelings would not be harmed.

I carried the behavior of *must react to contact immediately* for many years. It was after working in retail for years, and working on my recovery from reacting to the actions of an alcoholic that I learned I had the power to decide how and when I would RESPOND to the attempted contacts.

Today, I choose how and when I will respond, if at all. It does not mean I do not care about the other person. It may mean I don't have anything to add to the conversation or I am in a situation that prevents my responding (driving or in another conversation).

I agree with Liza that sending one form of communication is sufficient. Just as saying something once is sufficient. Saying it twice means I am trying to be controlling.

What steps are you taking to address your codie concerns?

Tuffgirl

Ya know what? He may be thoughtless for the rest of his life! It may be who he is. Or maybe the longer he remains sober, and the more he works through a solid recovery program, the better this will get. Who knows?

But I have to ask you - why get so mad? Why a confrontation? Why wait for hours demanding he respond to your attempts to reach him?

Try to detach from stuff like this. A simple text to him after a period of time had passed saying "given its now late in the evening, how about we cancel our plans tonight and catch up again in the am. And next time you are running late, please just let me know, thanks"

And leave it at that.

I don't think he enjoys you running after him. I think he doesn't enjoy angry confrontations, especially since he can't drink away the way those make him feel. And it doesn't sound like you enjoy them much either. So stop having them. Stop expecting him to act like you and expect him to act like him, as he has shown you already how he acts.

Early sobriety is bumpy. Detachment now is just as important as it is when they are actively drinking.

fluffyflea

Wynter,

My friend has been" recovering" for 35 years. And acts the same way pretty much. Hard to get past ego and self-centeredness sorry to tell you. They are just plain selfish in or out of recovery.

I,m getting the royal suck up treatment right now ,the good thing..........,I see through it.

PaperDolls

It sounds like he screwed up and he knows it. The fact that he showed up late and didn't even call to you say he was running late is wrong.

But, to me, what he did next sounds quite healthy to me. In stead of fighting with someone who was very angry, he chose to remove himself from the situation. May be he knew he was too angry too and it would have gone badly.

Give him time to cool off and see what happens from there. Trust your gut.

Titanic

Your story is a familiar one. The alcoholic in early recovery has major issues with emotions. The alcoholic may be physically sober but is not at all emotionally sober, mature. The alcohol/addiction has especially pickled and stunted the A's emotional brain. The A is like a teenager, emotionally. Think about it.

There's a helpful Al-Anon booklet titled Living With Sobriety. It's all about the kinds of experiences one might face when dealing with an alcoholic in early recovery.

Have you gone to Al-Anon meetings?

All the best to you.

wynter

I have to do something differently this time for my own sake. As I said, though, my situation is one that if he were a 'good' guy he might actually understand and cut me some slack in my emotional turmoil.

I have noticed that he is always able to give others (friends or even acquaintances) a get outta jail free card. But for me the standards are ever high, although he has none for himself. Kinda feel like if I don't be what he wants, he uses it to find more fault with me, creates distance, and then walks.

Tried to talk to him about how we can get around our 'communication' issues, but yet to reach a solution.

Have a new motto, but of course don't seem to be applying it here: "what have you done for me lately? And how do you make me feel?" Afraid no good answers there at the moment.

wynter

Thanks for all your responses. Tuffgirl, you nailed it. His style is not to fight, argue, and if he feels one is coming his way, he will bolt, and then withdraw. I think our communication styles are the biggest hurdle...he is an avoidant (as many A's are I'm guessing), and I in turn tend to be anxious. He stirs the pot, and I react, a little too much at times. Try to hit the pause button again and again, but sometimes it gets the better of me.

Truth be told, I didn't confront him and it wasn't an angry argument/fight. My thoughts were that he a) really didn't want to come over, but felt like he should; and b) since he was of that mindset, intentionally took his time coming over...all this added to my already high anxiety level, and when he arrived I was not in a good, calm place.

Still...this could have been avoided if he hadn't gotten mad at me being mad, and stormed out like he did.

He isn't returning my calls or texts. I don't know what to think, and feel so hurt, and like a fool. I don't know how to handle this behavior. I would never shut down on someone, and when on the receiving end tend to think they do not care about me.

Lynnrae2

My A was never recovering. He was full blown active the whole time. Our story was pretty much the same as yours. Always about him, never any regard to my feelings.

on the rare occasion that I asked him a question or tried to stand up for myself, he turned on me, extremely hateful and emotionally abusive.

The next day, we acted like nothing ever happened. Went on to the next issue that he brought to the table.

This cycle went on for 4 years.

Now that I am apart from him. He is still drinking and I would say he is at the beginning of the last stage of alcohlism. His health is awful.

The difference now is that I dont care anymore. So, the only time we talk is when he calls me. We might go out to dinner every once in a while.

The cycle has finally broken because I have detached. Everything out of his mouth is a lie and I know it, but I just take it as a grain of salt and for face value. I no longer partake in anything he does.

Somthing else that I noticed with him is that now that towards the end of our relationship and when I regained myself. I started to stand up to his bullying and he started running from me.

He would hang up on me, leave the room, the building whatever. Fight or flight.

I think what you are experiencing is very common in the world of alcoholism.


hang in there.

wynter

I can relate to what you said about regaining yourself. I think in the past I wouldn't have said a word about him being late, not to mention inconsiderate. I would have stuffed it to keep the peace. Think I knew it would cause a reaction, but this time I went with it.

I figured this was an alcoholic's pattern, the fight or flight. It's not my nature, and I don't know what to do with it. I usually get more anxious and call and text, hoping to get a resolution. It actually feels like he's punishing me for not 'toeing the line'. Very passive/aggressive, and hard to live with.

Don't know if you experienced also the blameshifting...never their fault. And when we get in one of these tizzes, he amplifies my negatives, conveniently forgetting all of the positives he has seen firsthand.

Maylie

He should have at least texted you to say that he was running late expecially since by 11pm you could go to bed. What I have learned with my recovering boyfriend is that if I start to call, text, leave voice mails, repeat then he shuts down. Sometimes they see it as we are harassing them.

Next time if he is running so late and you feel yourself getting angry you should just text him telling him not to come over. Fighting isn't worth it, nothing good comes from it and from how he seems from your post he won't say "you're right I should have called next time I will". You will save yourself a lot of pain and fustration.

wynter

Maylie,
my thoughts exactly. It's a simple text or call...and he usually does. That's why this got me in a tailspin. I have sent him an email, left two vms and a text between last night and today. Nothing. Do you think he sees that as harassment? Geez louise, I mean is it better to give them back their nothing and let them come around? If that's the case, I've been doin it all wrong...altho not sure it is a remedy that will work in his case.

dollydo

Are you going to meetings? Have you read Codependent No More? What about cynical one's blogs?

You are very obsessive, one vm would do, why keep hounding him? Why not back off and let him breath?

fluffyflea

[


Don,t do anything if you can stop texting him and phoning. Back off him and let him come to you. But take care of you.





QUOTE=wynter;3666994]Thanks for all your responses. Tuffgirl, you nailed it. His style is not to fight, argue, and if he feels one is coming his way, he will bolt, and then withdraw. I think our communication styles are the biggest hurdle...he is an avoidant (as many A's are I'm guessing), and I in turn tend to be anxious. He stirs the pot, and I react, a little too much at times. Try to hit the pause button again and again, but sometimes it gets the better of me.

Truth be told, I didn't confront him and it wasn't an angry argument/fight. My thoughts were that he a) really didn't want to come over, but felt like he should; and b) since he was of that mindset, intentionally took his time coming over...all this added to my already high anxiety level, and when he arrived I was not in a good, calm place.

Still...this could have been avoided if he hadn't gotten mad at me being mad, and stormed out like he did.

He isn't returning my calls or texts. I don't know what to think, and feel so hurt, and like a fool. I don't know how to handle this behavior. I would never shut down on someone, and when on the receiving end tend to think they do not care about me.[/QUOTE]

SadHeart

Don't depend on him to sooth your anxiety. That's your problem, not his.

He didn't want to come over. So why did he? Why did he feel like he should? If he didn't want to come over, then he should not have.

I agree he took his time and did the passive aggressive thing of not calling and ignoring your multiple attempts to get ahold of him.

I don't know that you have a communication problem, it sounds deeper than that, more like you have an attitude problem (you plural). His attitude towards you and yours towards him. That you are having differences in expectations of each other. No amount of communication will solve that, only changing your own expectations will solve that (and no amount of communication will change the other's expectations).

His giving you less than he gives others might be a symptom of him feeling you want too much from him--whereas others take what he's willing to offer freely. He may feel coerced by you into giving more, so perversely wants to give less.

Hopefully you are seeing a counselor to explore the relationship and handle your anxieties?

mdkathy62

Hi wynter,

Thanks for sharing. Your story reminded me of my ex and I have those same discussions hundreds and hundreds of time. I always thought, gosh courtesy is so easy. A text to say I'm running late is not that difficult. He listens to music on his phone in the car so certainly before putting the car into drive, he could very easily send a text right? After struggling with these types of things for so many years, it really drove me insane. It always felt like he could do considerate things to everyone else BUT me. It felt deliberate and intentional. He would say he forgot or he was in a rush or it slipped his mind, but my philosophy was always "you spend time on things that are most important to you" and I didn't like the excuses.

Now that I am away from him, for three weeks now, I look back on all those arguments where I wasted so much breath, time, and emotion. As important as detachment is, in my experience it is easier said than done. Sometimes I found myself letting those things go one day and the next, but then a week later I would blow up!! Detachment really takes time. It's not something you can do once and feel like a champion. I also used to think that if I was patient and didn't text or call to see if he was coming then naturally he would text or call to let me know right? Since I am not pressuring him...but it didn't work that way. I kept thinking, if I do my share, he will do his share, but unfortunately it does not work that way. Maybe in a "normal" relationship with someone who is rational and not an alcoholic it would work, but it doesn't work in a relationship with someone who is an addict and who is thinking irrationally.

I really had to change my expectations and the way I reacted to things so ultimately I chose to leave and stay left. I don't have any expectations that he will "get it" although I wish he would. In the past, whenever we were on and off, I expected my departure would make him "get it", but now I know NOTHING will make him get it. The only thing that will make him change anything is if he has an honest desire to change. Hang in there!

Lynnrae2

Oh yes....always blameshifting. I was always to blame even if it was something that didnt even inolve me.

At one point in our relationship, he had me convinced that I was the one with the problem. I completely felt like I was crazy. After we split I started seeing a counselor. The first thing I asked after about 15 minutes of uncontrollable sobbing was "Please tell me I am not crazy"


They feel nothing...they have no remorse about anything and It took me along time to realize that I would never get what I was looking for. You will never get a true apology or any recognition for trying to make things right.

Rosiepetal

I only got about 3 weeks out of my alcoholic in recovery but I can tell you that he was completely different. As they go through the changes they can be quite distant & show no emotion or even want to be intimate.
It will take some time for him to work through recovery, please be patient with him.

wynter

Sad heart,
yes I think our issues are deeper than our communication styles. I think he only wants me to be so close, and that's enough for him. I feel like we do the windshield wiper dance, per se. He wants me in his life, but on his own terms. When I suggested that he come back over last evening, I think he was looking at it in terms of 'his space' being invaded, but yah, he came anyway.

I think he is probably emotionally unavailable most times, and it is hard for me to deal with. It is crazy making in my world. And I think he knows it.

I don't want to be calling and emailing and texting...but in my normal world, most people will respond, even if it's not something you'd like to hear. This silence feels almost abusive to me. I guess I just don't understand him and how he thinks -- most probably b/c he doesn't let me in very often.

We've been together now almost 3 years. Been there for him every step of the way. Now I'm goin through my own stuff..very emotional time here. That's the part of this you don't know (tmi)...and it hurts to think during this he can so easily leave me just b/c I got angry with him.

Kathy,
I'm glad to hear you are on the right road. Kudos to you!!! It had to take a lot of strength and courage to walk away. I think these R's have a way of turning you inside out. They are more than difficult, and as you said, leave you feeling like you are not important. Even the littlest people in their lives get more of them than you do...and as you have firsthand knowledge, it's not like we ask too much. Lowered expectations are an understatement. How much lower can we get? And why should we???

best to you


RosiePetal,
I am tryin hard to be patient. I have been his biggest fan. Don't want a pat on the back, it's what I did b/c I wanted to. Always had his back. Now I need him...and he's not there for me.