alcholism really IS just a symptom

Old 11-09-2012, 05:22 AM
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alcholism really IS just a symptom

Good morning SR friends,

I broke nc with xabf so we could exchange the odds and ends, loose ends etc. Soon after came the barrage of texts (sober mind you), voice mails and endless unanswered calls. He has been doing well on antabuse but all that is left now is a sober sociopath in deep denial. He is angry, narcissistic, blaming, projecting and all the other behaviors that go with this territory.
He firmly believes in his heart he has no underlying psych issues, refuses counciling or (god forbid) exploring the possibility that a psych medication may help him feel better and expedite his return to the world of the living.
After several useless talks I have gone back to NC for my own sanity. Seems there is nothing left in him besides scorched earth. I pray for him daily and always hope the best for him but even sober this is more than I can handle. I have offered it up to the HP, best I can do.

Thanks for listening,
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:26 AM
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keep up the No Contact...he sounds very toxic for you...keep your boundaries

Melody Beattie has many many good reads....look them up
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:44 AM
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Good for you, keep your resolve.
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:17 AM
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Free at last how did you do it. This is exactly the same as my situation unbearable to live with him and persecuted when I ask him to leave (which he does). I have sent you a friend request but not sure how they work. He is very unstable and capable of anything towards anybody that gets in his was. Good luck and stay strong
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:49 AM
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There's a person I have known since he was about six. He's now a young adult. He is a sociopath. He's got that dead sociopathic look in his eyes and does things with no conscious, completely self centered. Sometimes he looks at you and chills go down your back. Sometimes you just look in his eyes and know he's thinking about killing you. He's creepy and scary at times, by doing nothing, just how he looks. But he also has that sociopathic charm--he seems shy and confiding and sweet. It's easy to get sucked in.

He also has schizophrenia, although it hasn't really taken hold yet. He's had short episode of hearing voices and hallucinating since about age 11. His mother, grandfather and three uncles were schizophrenic. Their variety doesn't really take hold until about age 30, and then when it does, it's the kind that really can't be controlled with known medication. It destroys their lives. Every once in a while you can see the scared crazy look in his face, the deer in the headlight look, the my inner reality isn't matching up with the world reality look. It doesn't happen often, but when it does, you feel very sorry for him.

Recently he's taken up drinking. He's goofy and vulnerable mostly when he drinks, although I understand he can be bitter and self pitying. I haven't seen him drinking, but he's a distant family member and I hear about it. There's alcoholism in the other side of his family.

This kid never had a chance at a decent life. I look at him and wonder what's going to win out: the sociopathy? The schizophrenia? The alcoholism? What's going to manifest the strongest. Will the schizophrenia knock out the sociopathy? How will the alcoholism play into it? The drinking is a recent thing.

He has a vodka drinking very passive whiny alcoholic father, a sister who was raised from infancy to be codependent, a mother in and out of mental institutions and who wanders the streets in psychosis much of the year, and a crazy personality disordered dependent whiny passive aggressive controlling enmeshed grandmother. They are all in denial of all of their problems, most especially his (he's just a genius that's all).

When you say alcohol is just a symptom, I think of this kid (actually he's now a young adult). The drinking is all anyone ever focuses on, although they are trying to play it off as youthful experimenting. Yeah, he got a DUI, but THAT's NOT REALLY THE PROBLEM!!
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:56 AM
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It was the same with my father. He was a alcoholic, but his real problem was he knocked up at girl at 19, married her, then by age of 21, had a stay at home wife, 2 babies, a boring job during the day and went to school at night. And hated it. He'd had other plans for himself. He didn't love his wife. He resented me (the oldest baby). Work was a drag. And he had always wanted something else--but got himself trapped and didn't have the guts to untrap himself honorably.

So he drank. And made himself and everyone around him miserable. Until he killed himself driving drunk.

His drinking was just a symptom of his weakness of character, his cowardice, and his bitterness and blaming everyone else for his situation rather than himself. The Jack Daniels wasn't really the problem.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:58 AM
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Yeah I broke NC with mine recently too... I have no idea how much he is drinking now but he was still the same angry, blaming, sarcastic as* -- always refused to go to therapy, continues to be an emotional mess as far as I know. Whatever, I am so much more SANE now than I was 6 months ago.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:36 AM
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I broke no contact many times...... but one day you just get to a point where you can no longer not do "no contact". No contact feels cruel, but it is not. Otherwise the contact keeps the dance going..... the only way to end the dance is to stop dancing, put your shoes on, walk out of the party, close the door and never look back.

There are so many other dances, dance partners and dance parties out there........
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ZiggyB View Post
Yeah I broke NC with mine recently too... I have no idea how much he is drinking now but he was still the same angry, blaming, sarcastic as* -- always refused to go to therapy, continues to be an emotional mess as far as I know. Whatever, I am so much more SANE now than I was 6 months ago.
Sad heart. I agree with you on everything you have just said. Today I decided enough is enough. For years I thought if my H stopped drinking we would be ok but then he tried and it has unmasked the major problems in his mind. For years the drink had covered this up. Mental health is so cruel lack of understanding is a major problem for this hidden disability. But I know I can't cure him any more as he is too unstable.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:07 PM
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One of our moderators says that alcoholism is a three-fold disease: Physical, mental, and spiritual. And you cannot recover unless you recover on all three levels. Not drinking doesn't equal recovery. It just equals not drinking.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by lillamy View Post
One of our moderators says that alcoholism is a three-fold disease: Physical, mental, and spiritual. And you cannot recover unless you recover on all three levels. Not drinking doesn't equal recovery. It just equals not drinking.
I don't remember, who says this? Because it's really hitting home for me today.

And SadHeart, the description of that family just tears my heart apart. So many people suffering. But yes, I understand your concern about the young man. A schizophrenic without a conscience is a very scary person.
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Mrshat View Post
Free at last how did you do it. This is exactly the same as my situation unbearable to live with him and persecuted when I ask him to leave (which he does). I have sent you a friend request but not sure how they work. He is very unstable and capable of anything towards anybody that gets in his was. Good luck and stay strong
Mrshat,
We were not married , no kids so the last time he huffed off to the condo his parents still maintain for him (party pad) I simply loaded his crap in a van , drove it the 1 hour down and unloaded his stuff into his place while he sat loading vodka into his face watching me work and calling me every filthy name in the book. That was the easy part.
What got me to that point was a slow methodical loss of self. My friends saw it AGES before I did, I always made excuses for him ( I still had hope you see) . I began to recognise the cycles. Relapse, detox, honeymoon, lather , rinse, repeat. I loved him, still do but differently now because I realised not too long ago he was hopeless, even if i stopped being his codie his rich parents were right to the rescue . It was when began to behave out of character, anxious, insomniac, scared constantly, looking haggard I started to get the picture. All my friends and I had drifted save one angel of a 5 year recovering A who loves me and got my situation. I began to self medicate, Oh, hell no, his toxicity was rubbing off.
His parents sent him to rehab and he seemed to thrive, writing 2-3 positive and hopefull letters each day he was there, he this was truely his last chance with me and I meant it. I also noticed with him 800 miles away I was calmer, brighter in mood and back to my old self (hmmmm???) He came home and it was bliss, he was a changed man, healthier, determined, looked AMAZING, immediatly went to AA meetings. It lasted 3 DAYS!!!!!!! He ran to his condo because of I asked to use his EYE CREAM (true story for another time), went on a bender, broke mine and everyone who loves him's heart. I took him back a week later, that lasted 2 days.
Funny thing was it was a tiny little barb that I had heard him throw at me many times when he was drunk and verbally abusing me. While speaking on the phone he was doing the usual take me back , I will do blah, blah, blah. I began to cave as usual to his manipulation , I was literally mid-sentence telling him the latest of my "terms" and how I would take him back when he interruped me to tell me " you know I can have any woman I want" . At that moment my brain clicked hard into a different mode, I had a huge moment of clarity. I hung up instantly and began to laugh hysterically at the futility of it all, of the sick man whom I was dealing with and then cried that I allowed myself to be sucked down from strong, confident, woman who made pretty good choices to codie door mat of a sociopathic charmer. Painful as this was I blocked him in all communications and other than the last exchange have stayed nc. He is not giving up booze or his relentless persuit of me but I can't ever lose myself this way again. He will find another woman and will leave me be, i just have to be strong meantime.
Literally one day, sometimes one moment at a time is required to get through giving him up. I dont want to do anything or see anyone, I want to isolate---- but I dont. I make myself keep routines, go out with my friends, read SR and other sites, books that I feel are helpful or were recommended. I cry often BUT there is a weird void where the drama and dysfunction once was. As long as I stay busy, get out of my own head I am cool. The tough times are when I get bored then I force myself to read, walk, clean , anything really to just feel alive and functional.
Huge apology this is so long and rambling , feeling a bit ill today but I could read your pain and recognized it as my own. Read SR and post often, get to an Al Anon meeting if you can. You have to experience the pain, feel it and let it fade for any change to happen. I just lost my mother, father and 2 close friends to death in the past 4 years. If I can go on after those losses, well, you get the picture.



BIG HUGS
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Old 11-11-2012, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Learn2Live View Post
And SadHeart, the description of that family just tears my heart apart. So many people suffering. But yes, I understand your concern about the young man. A schizophrenic without a conscience is a very scary person.
They aren't nice people, except for the daughter. The son is just creepy and odd, just within the borders of social propriety. But you feel it. He has 4 felony convictions already and a fascination with weapons. When he doesn't get his way he's horribly passive aggressive and manipulative to make people do what he wants.

The father is very passive, vodka swilling, momma's boy who whines about how victimized he is. Not a very effectual person.

The grandmother is personality disordered: histrionic, narcissistic, and very dependent. Terrified of being abandoned, can't stand not having someone paying attention to her. She literally gets panicky if she's alone 10 minutes. And she needs nonstop affirmations of how loved she is and how wonderful and how mean everyone is to her for no reason.

The daughter has been raised from infancy to please and have no feelings or opinions and to serve every one else. Grandma's unhappy, go make her happy. Your brother is bored, go entertain him. I need a sandwich, go make me a sandwich. I've never seen her angry ever, she's not allowed to be. And she's not allowed to have any feelings except happy positive feelings, and she has no privacy and even her possessions are not hers if her brother wants them.

There's an older brother two who abuses alcohol, is a pothead, and dabbles in rx drugs. He's charming, but won't work or go to school, just mooches exchanging charm for a living.

Not a pleasant family at all--but they think they are the tops!
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:37 PM
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Thank you so much. I am in so much pain right now. I have again sent my h away after only being home a few days. All the usual promises and so sorry. I love him so much and he is one of the kindest men I have ever met who put me on his pedestal. But also knocked me off it and kicked me to the ground. The constant violent outbursts which as he explained are my fault have finished me off. I do feel I am one of the nicest people i know with many close friends ( he does not have a single one) but have turned into a jibbering angry nervous wreck. The fact I seek help on here he turns against me and says I read to much and make it up in my mind. The final straw for me has been my teenage son who I have seen the last few weeks die inside. He is worried sick for his dad but also worried sick for me. This has made my decision easier for me. I have to put my children first. I can choose. But I am so sad and lonely and have lost my soul mate. We each don't have other family but I am so lucky to have my wonderful friends and my children so I will learn to cope somehow I hope. I just have to stay strong and not take him back.
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Old 11-11-2012, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrshat View Post
Free at last
Thank you so much. I am in so much pain right now. I have again sent my h away after only being home a few days. All the usual promises and so sorry. I love him so much and he is one of the kindest men I have ever met who put me on his pedestal. But also knocked me off it and kicked me to the ground. The constant violent outbursts which as he explained are my fault have finished me off. I do feel I am one of the nicest people i know with many close friends ( he does not have a single one) but have turned into a jibbering angry nervous wreck. The fact I seek help on here he turns against me and says I read to much and make it up in my mind. The final straw for me has been my teenage son who I have seen the last few weeks die inside. He is worried sick for his dad but also worried sick for me. This has made my decision easier for me. I have to put my children first. I can choose. But I am so sad and lonely and have lost my soul mate. We each don't have other family but I am so lucky to have my wonderful friends and my children so I will learn to cope somehow I hope. I just have to stay strong and not take him back.
**{hugs}}}
He has made the promises and his recovery is his to work through, but having him out of a codependant environment will benefit you, him and your son. None of you will see it at first, be patient.
Having a child of course forces you to have some contact with him, when you are ready , give some thought to boundrys of that contact. A's are master manipulaters, know every button to push and have an uncanny sense of timing. Please try to get to a face to face meeting of alanon/alateen if you can, so many resources to help you stay strong, take care of yourself and your son.
Funny how they never have friends isn't it? Mine did not either although like your AH he is funny, warm, intelligent (sober of course). His thing was drunk dialing. Did this to a friend of mine from work and my sister in-law once. I was so horrified. He always asked me why we never hung out with people as a couple, REALLY?? The 2 days out of each month you happen to behave like a human being did not necessarily coincide with functions or friends being free. Eventually my friends stepped back and let me make my mistakes. I could never plan to go to a show or concert because you just never knew where he would be at in the cycle of his addiction when the day rolled around. I can make future plans now.

You have taken the first step, be kind to yourself, use the resources here on SR, the internet and Alanon . Having that dear son to focus on will help keep your spine straight too. Some days the pain will be acute, the tears many, and the confusion high but bit by bit it really gets better.
We are here for you , and we are many, we know the pain well,

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