BlueSkies1

This really isn't off topic. I know several women on this forum have suffered from this behavior right alongside the alcoholism in their partner, me included.

The sexism I had to deal with daily was very much like alcoholism. It had a sense of entitlement, inequality, gaslighting, outright lying, sneaky behaviors behind my back, and a large amount of disrespect.

Does an old curmudgeon leopard ever change their spots? Can they ever learn to treat their spouse/partner with equality?

Honestly this behavior hurt me more than the alcoholism, because I took it far more personally.

These behaviors can be so ingrained in the establishment white male...excuse the stereotype, as I know this behavior can cross many race and even gender lines and fill in your story with as many variations on this theme as you like...
but this ingrained sense of superiority, entitlement, and inequality I believe can be blind to the perpetrator. It is cultural, as much as it is an individual choice with enlightenment.

I am interested in discussing this topic as to how you have dealt with this difficulty, communication, and enlightment, good results, and/or inability to come to some sort of equality between partners with this problem.
I think this topic affects most of the women on this forum. I see this problem in many of the threads.
Your thoughts?

constellation

A good friend of mine in AA and Al Anon who knows my story well once told me that my AH wanted June Cleaver and Pamela Anderson in one body. My AH many times talks about the plight of the white man in America and how it's not fair that women get equal pay. Many times he has said things that make me think that the only thing I'm good for is to be his sex toy and I often feel objectified. We haven't had relations in quite a few months because of this, I've finally come to realize that he's sick. I never quite feel appreciated as a human being, or valued for being someone with real worth because so many of his complaints are about sex. It's kind of hard to want sex with someone who treats you like crap, but he doesn't get it. He feels entitled because he's a man and that it's a woman's job to serve him in bed. He once told me that I wasn't being a Christian woman because he wasn't getting any, UGH!

Actually, I was just coming on today to post something about this. Interesting that you started this thread.

dandylion

Dear Madeofglass, I think this is a great topic. It does affect the women of this forum as well as all other women. It has been said that sexism is more pervasive--worldwide than raceism. I believe that is true.

I think both men and women can behave in sexist ways. It is learned behavior which begins in the cradle.

To go to the heart of your question, made of glass,---yes, the severe and blatant forms are drilled into the bones of some people by their culture and childhood experiences. In my experience---and I have lots of it---some people are too ingrained to change. I left one boyfriend and one husband because of it. A "brick wall" that I knew I could never get past.

I think it becomes a judgement call. Some people(men) who are motivated to open their minds and are willing to change, I think may be able to do so.

I think women have to draw their boundries about how they wan t/need to be treated as an individual. That might be very or painful to do. Sort of like cutting off the leg to save the whole body. Especially, in a close, intimate relationship.

These are some of my thoughts, and I am sure that this is going to be a very interesting (and, likely, contraversal) thread!!!

dandylion

Fandy

I've used the analogy of June Cleaver and Jenna James (porn star), but i like Pam Anderson too.
it's rampant in my workplace at times and we are supposed to be educators. My office assistant is male, but he practices this passive/aggressive behavior that really pizzas me off. yet i feel uncomfortable putting my foot up his buttisimo.

scotchwidow

I have just broken out of a decade of gaslighting:
"You'll never make it on your own."
"There's no such thing as alimony anymore."
"You will never find anyone who loves you as much as I do."

From a man who felt he was intitled to drink away $30 a night even if we didn't have grocery money, or other very important obligations, because HE WAS THE BREADWINNER. Since he earns the money he's entitled to spend it. I am not entitled to it at all, not allowed to make any financial decisions.

I have ADD and low self estem from it so he would play up how damaged I was as goods and that I was lucky to have him.

Our divorce became final last week. I'm back in I.T. for the financial industry, back on Ritalin, ALL back together right as he found me before we got married. Wow those 12 yrs sucked and got me no where.

dandylion

Dear Fandy, I sure do know what you mean. Again I think it becomes a judgement call---a matter of picking your battles. This will vary from person to person, of course. I don't think one woman can change a whole culture by going head to head with every single man she meets. I think it boils down to an individual decision about what we can or can't live with. This may sound wimpy to some people, I know.

I also think it is important to support other women whenever and where ever we can.

I think that women should also support equality for men. Sexism is diminished when both men and women are more equal. For example, stay-at-home dads--they are often looked down on because they do traditional "women's work". There is no such thing as women's work in my opinion---just valuable work--no matter which gender does it. (breast feeding can be tricky for men, though).

Just some of my thoughts.

dandylion

Chris1000101

I’m glad to see this come up as I agree too many women have been and still are treated like crap.



Don’t you dare be selling yourself short. These are just a few women that I can think of that have done much to change history:

Joan of Arc
Mary Wollstonecraft
Susan B. Anthony
Emily Murphy
Helen Keller
Katharine Hepburn
Rosa Parks


By no means will al-anon make all women famous but it does supply the tools that everyone needs to stand on their own two feet and not be anyone’s doormat.

MycoolFitz

I should not post as a guy I guess but I try to give love and respect to everyone.

lillamy

I'm sorry, but I'm completely missing which parts of this are sexism?
Sounds like a typical alcoholic, male or female, to me?

dandylion

Dear MyCoolFitz, you absolutely can post. Your ideas are important. I believe that women can be sexist toward men---just as men can be sexist toward women.

For example: I once had a girlfriend who was single and dating. When she would call me to report a new "crush", she would refer to him by his occupational title---The pilot, the doctor, the lawyer, etc........I would literally have to ask her what his NAME was. She saw men as a bank account or a "status symbol" rather than a unique human being, first. To me, that seemed sexist.

I don't know if others would agree.

dandylion

dandylion

Dear Chris---point well-made---and well taken!

Rosiepetal

What I wonder is if a man has grown up around males that have shown no respect for females then how would they know it is healthy & proper to do so?

My Exabf father was an alcoholic. He used to either ignore or beat his son. Some things he did was horrific.

If the mother of that child stands by & lets that happen then what sign of respect would that child have for women?

Funnily enough this mother & son now live together, aged 85 & 51. The son gets drunk & doesn't show respect for his mother & the mother takes it!

Yuck.

Would love feedback on this.

MycoolFitz

Well i do not know I just care about people. I do not feel sexist but I like peeing standing up because I hike alot.

ZiggyB

My axbf definitely had a lot of weird attitudes towards women, his exes were all stupid bi*ches, the women in his family were all harpies, and he expected me to be his mother, sex goddess and social debutante all rolled up into one. No matter what I was doing, he felt entitled to tell me I should be doing something else.

He got angry at other people, had gotten into fights when I knew him and almost got his a*s kicked a few times, but I think he felt entitled to scream at me because I wouldn't fight back. Not sure if that is sexist or just controlling and weird.

dandylion

Dear MyCoolFitz---I am a little "slow" sometimes---can you explain your post (about peeing and hiking) to me? I just don't get it?

dandylion

Chris1000101

I’ve been there it is the road from hell. I remember the fighting between my bio-parents, some nights yelling others was a bloody mess and they would use Tupperware dishes to try suffocating the other. There were other items but that is a completely different story. My point is, even after being in foster care (starting at age 8), I had no healthy adult figures to look up to. There isn’t much to be said for the homes other than they tried but did not know how to deal with me.

Somewhere in my 20’s I didn’t like who I had become, I didn’t like how I was treating others, I was becoming the very b*st*rds that I swore I would never be. I chose to be different but didn’t know what to do or where to start. I sought a friend of mine who I knew was familiar with alcoholism and she pointed me to ACoA meetings. From there I sought out other 12 step groups and counseling. It started when I chose to be different. Wish I could say I was perfect by now but I’m not. Even after 20+ years of being in and around the 12 step fellowships, I’m still fining crap I need to work on.

MycoolFitz

Sorry I was in a work shop once and they asked what was the best thing about being a maleand I just said peeing standing up. Sorry no offence.

dandylion

MrcoolFitz---good one!!! Now, I get it!!

dandylion

Dear Chris---very inspiring post. Thanks for sharing with us.

sincerely, dandylion

constellation

I hike a lot. Wish I could pee standing up. I guess that's one good thing about being a guy. Unfortunately, I live in the desert and it's tough even for the guys to pee in private, LOL, it's hard to hide behind a cholla or saguaro.

Thank you for contributing on this thread, this gave me a nice chuckle tonight.