The Six Pillars of Self Esteem
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The Six Pillars of Self Esteem
I started reading this book "The Six Pillars of Self Esteem" and I have a quote I'd like to share with you all:
At times it seems so clear to me that codependency is a function of low self-esteem but I am wondering what the rest of you think? Did you accept behavior you shouldn't have in order to make someone else happy? Were you afraid of rocking the boat? Did you long to be treated with more care and love, like I did? Did you somehow believe you didn't deserve anything better?
If I respect myself and require that others deal with me respectfully, I send out signals and behave in ways that increase the likelihood that others will respond appropriately. When they do, I am reinforced and confirmed in my initial belief. If I lack self respect and consequently accept discourtesy, abuse or exploitation from others as natural, I unconsciously transmit this, and some people will treat me at my self-estimate. When this happens, and I submit to it, my self-respect deteriorates even more.
The value of self esteem lies not merely in the fact that it allows us to feel better but that it allows us to live better -- to respond to challenges and opportunities more resourcefully and more appropriately.
The value of self esteem lies not merely in the fact that it allows us to feel better but that it allows us to live better -- to respond to challenges and opportunities more resourcefully and more appropriately.
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This is exactly what I need to do I think. I found myself after leaving AH in a situation where I did not feel I was being treated right by a man I met. My needs were just neither here nor there, it seemed and I was so terrified of another break-up I just let things slide. I put my foot down and said am not putting up with this lack of consideration and then would back track just for company and somebody to be with. But I think If I want happiness I will have to go into that scary place of standing up for myself no matter what the consequences.
Thanks for the post Ziggy.
Thanks for the post Ziggy.
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Originally Posted by cr995 
My needs were just neither here nor there, it seemed and I was so terrified of another break-up I just let things slide. I put my foot down and said am not putting up with this lack of consideration and then would back track just for company and somebody to be with. But I think If I want happiness I will have to go into that scary place of standing up for myself no matter what the consequences.
Thanks for the post Ziggy.
Thanks for the post Ziggy.
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I grew up 100% programmed to feel responsible for everyone's happiness except my own! I even married someone because I thought well, if this is what he wants then I guess that's what I'll do. It never occurred to me to ask myself what *I* wanted. It wasn't until that marriage imploded (which I now understand was inevitable) that I started asking those questions and learning to like myself.
Years later I got myself into a relationship with an A. One would think after growing up with an alcoholic mother I would know better, right? Wrong. But I see that awful relationship now for what it was -- I was proving to myself that I really, really, really, really can't fix someone who doesn't want to stop drinking. I had not failed my mother. It just couldn't be done. Once I understood that in my bones I got out and never looked back.
Buh -- did I answer your question? Sorry for the ramble! Great thought-provoking post!
Years later I got myself into a relationship with an A. One would think after growing up with an alcoholic mother I would know better, right? Wrong. But I see that awful relationship now for what it was -- I was proving to myself that I really, really, really, really can't fix someone who doesn't want to stop drinking. I had not failed my mother. It just couldn't be done. Once I understood that in my bones I got out and never looked back.
Buh -- did I answer your question? Sorry for the ramble! Great thought-provoking post!
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Hi ZiggyB,
Thank you for this thread. Now I see codependency as a function of self-esteem. Before I didn't. Before I cringed. No way could I be codependent. I'm very independent! The relationship I had with my ex was bound to fail. It was two people with low self-esteem coming together dying to feel good enough. He did so through alcohol and with me as well and I did so by wanting him to stop drinking to 'prove' he loved me more than alcohol. It was doomed. I wish I had known then what I know now.
We were on and off 3-4 times in 3 years and each time, yes, I did get lonely. I wanted him to stop drinking, to make me feel good enough, when all along I had to make myself feel good enough. It wasn't his job to make me feel good enough. This last time we broke up 2 weeks ago, I had delayed it for quite sometime. I didn't want to break up yet again. What would people think? There she goes again giving him another chance and she failed. I didn't want people to judge me. I wanted him to really recover so that I can turn around and say to all the people who doubted us, "see, we did it", but that was the wrong mentality. I didn't want to admit that I was wrong to stay with him. I accepted things that I knew were wrong. I justified every wrong behavior. I explained it somehow because of his alcoholism, but deep down he's a great guy. I knew I deserved better, but was scared to give up what I had to go searching for it. What if I don't find better?
Gosh...all the emotions I felt...looking back, all I can say is I wish I knew then what I know now BUT I am so grateful that I finally "got it".
Thank you for this thread. Now I see codependency as a function of self-esteem. Before I didn't. Before I cringed. No way could I be codependent. I'm very independent! The relationship I had with my ex was bound to fail. It was two people with low self-esteem coming together dying to feel good enough. He did so through alcohol and with me as well and I did so by wanting him to stop drinking to 'prove' he loved me more than alcohol. It was doomed. I wish I had known then what I know now.
We were on and off 3-4 times in 3 years and each time, yes, I did get lonely. I wanted him to stop drinking, to make me feel good enough, when all along I had to make myself feel good enough. It wasn't his job to make me feel good enough. This last time we broke up 2 weeks ago, I had delayed it for quite sometime. I didn't want to break up yet again. What would people think? There she goes again giving him another chance and she failed. I didn't want people to judge me. I wanted him to really recover so that I can turn around and say to all the people who doubted us, "see, we did it", but that was the wrong mentality. I didn't want to admit that I was wrong to stay with him. I accepted things that I knew were wrong. I justified every wrong behavior. I explained it somehow because of his alcoholism, but deep down he's a great guy. I knew I deserved better, but was scared to give up what I had to go searching for it. What if I don't find better?
Gosh...all the emotions I felt...looking back, all I can say is I wish I knew then what I know now BUT I am so grateful that I finally "got it".
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I let my A treat me like crap, but I never took that kind of crap from anyone else. I dont consider myself to have low self esteem. I do consider myself a kind hearted person. I would also say that I am somewhat naive when it comes to things(or at least I used to be)
I had never encountered anyone with an addiction before. I had never encountered anyone with the anger issues that my A had either. I also didnt realize(the naive part) that my A was an alcoholic until I was emotionally tagged and broken.
It wasnt until I came out of the relationship and I started educating myself on alcoholics and sociopathic people, that I started to figure it out.
Now that I know what I am dealing with, I know to stay away from it and will not ever let him or any human being treat me with that kind of disrespect again.
I have definately learned a life lesson and I am so much stronger for it.
I had never encountered anyone with an addiction before. I had never encountered anyone with the anger issues that my A had either. I also didnt realize(the naive part) that my A was an alcoholic until I was emotionally tagged and broken.
It wasnt until I came out of the relationship and I started educating myself on alcoholics and sociopathic people, that I started to figure it out.
Now that I know what I am dealing with, I know to stay away from it and will not ever let him or any human being treat me with that kind of disrespect again.
I have definately learned a life lesson and I am so much stronger for it.
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Originally Posted by SparkleKitty
I grew up 100% programmed to feel responsible for everyone's happiness except my own! I even married someone because I thought well, if this is what he wants then I guess that's what I'll do. It never occurred to me to ask myself what *I* wanted. It wasn't until that marriage imploded (which I now understand was inevitable) that I started asking those questions and learning to like myself.
Years later I got myself into a relationship with an A. One would think after growing up with an alcoholic mother I would know better, right? Wrong. But I see that awful relationship now for what it was -- I was proving to myself that I really, really, really, really can't fix someone who doesn't want to stop drinking. I had not failed my mother. It just couldn't be done. Once I understood that in my bones I got out and never looked back.
Buh -- did I answer your question? Sorry for the ramble! Great thought-provoking post!
Years later I got myself into a relationship with an A. One would think after growing up with an alcoholic mother I would know better, right? Wrong. But I see that awful relationship now for what it was -- I was proving to myself that I really, really, really, really can't fix someone who doesn't want to stop drinking. I had not failed my mother. It just couldn't be done. Once I understood that in my bones I got out and never looked back.
Buh -- did I answer your question? Sorry for the ramble! Great thought-provoking post!
What is wrong with making other people happy though? If that is what makes you happy.
If you find the right person that appreciates that, then I dont think there is anything wrong with it.
If however you find the type of personality that my A has, then yeah, there is a huge problem.
But again, I dont necessarly think it is because of low self esteem. I think a person gets emotionally tagged to someone and its hard to let go.
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Originally Posted by Lynnrae2
What is wrong with making other people happy though? If that is what makes you happy.
If you find the right person that appreciates that, then I dont think there is anything wrong with it.
If however you find the type of personality that my A has, then yeah, there is a huge problem.
But again, I dont necessarly think it is because of low self esteem. I think a person gets emotionally tagged to someone and its hard to let go.
If you find the right person that appreciates that, then I dont think there is anything wrong with it.
If however you find the type of personality that my A has, then yeah, there is a huge problem.
But again, I dont necessarly think it is because of low self esteem. I think a person gets emotionally tagged to someone and its hard to let go.
Ultimately I guess we are each responsible for our own happiness. I've never been able to "make" someone happy for more than a brief few hours before they revert back to their normal states.
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Originally Posted by Lynnrae2
What is wrong with making other people happy though? If that is what makes you happy.
If you find the right person that appreciates that, then I dont think there is anything wrong with it.
If you find the right person that appreciates that, then I dont think there is anything wrong with it.
Today I enjoy when something I do makes my husband happy. But I don't feel solely responsible for anyone's happiness other than my own.
Does that make sense?
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Ziggy and sparkle,
Both of yalls replies make perfect sense and now thinking back. I remember doing things for my A that I hated doing. In fact I knew it was wrong and it didnt make me happy at all. That part I can see as damaging and definately codependant.
I recall other times when I did things for other people who were not alcoholic and even though I didnt care for it, I knew it made them happy and they were appreciative of it. I enjoyed that.
They would also do things that I liked and things for me. (that is what I consider a healthy normal relationship).
There is definately a differenece.
Both of yalls replies make perfect sense and now thinking back. I remember doing things for my A that I hated doing. In fact I knew it was wrong and it didnt make me happy at all. That part I can see as damaging and definately codependant.
I recall other times when I did things for other people who were not alcoholic and even though I didnt care for it, I knew it made them happy and they were appreciative of it. I enjoyed that.
They would also do things that I liked and things for me. (that is what I consider a healthy normal relationship).
There is definately a differenece.
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I just wanted him to be well again.
I wanted the drinking gone.
I supported him through drug withdrawal & he got clean from drugs so I knew he could do it right? Wrong.
I wanted respect.
The hurt, embarassment & bad behaviour was not acceptable.
I hung in there going round & round in circles with, he'd do something yuck, he'd give up for 1 week, he'd do something yuck, he'd cut back blah blah blah.
I told him I had a right to be respected in a relationship & I hadn't been getting that so it was time to move on.
I did however also say that it was alcohol that destroyed our relationship but that fell on deaf ears.
I wanted the drinking gone.
I supported him through drug withdrawal & he got clean from drugs so I knew he could do it right? Wrong.
I wanted respect.
The hurt, embarassment & bad behaviour was not acceptable.
I hung in there going round & round in circles with, he'd do something yuck, he'd give up for 1 week, he'd do something yuck, he'd cut back blah blah blah.
I told him I had a right to be respected in a relationship & I hadn't been getting that so it was time to move on.
I did however also say that it was alcohol that destroyed our relationship but that fell on deaf ears.
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I have found it interesting in my recovery how things fall into place in different parts of my life first.
It often goes along with what I feel most confident about.
Often I work a piece at work, because I know I am pretty good at my job (and feel pretty stable here).
Then I do it with trusted, healthy relationships. Those are a little harder for me (not as sure in myself, but safe in the relationship)
Then I was starting to do it with my intimate partner, but was struggling because I was not getting support from him (he was in the throes of his disease). I got caught up in what was his and what was mine. Mine in part was believing him and his reactions meant I had done it ALL wrong.
It was not a black and white thing for me. As my confidence to handle my whole life has grown, my codependency has shrunk.
Feeling good about myself and holding onto that feeling REGARDLESS of how someone else reacts to me has been challenging. It feels like another part of my growth continuum.
I think my recovery from my eating disorder was about how I felt about me, myself and I. My recovery from being married to an alcoholic and my codenpendcy is me taking my eating disorder recovery on the road and being with people.
Thanks for the book recommendation! It sounds great!
It often goes along with what I feel most confident about.
Often I work a piece at work, because I know I am pretty good at my job (and feel pretty stable here).
Then I do it with trusted, healthy relationships. Those are a little harder for me (not as sure in myself, but safe in the relationship)
Then I was starting to do it with my intimate partner, but was struggling because I was not getting support from him (he was in the throes of his disease). I got caught up in what was his and what was mine. Mine in part was believing him and his reactions meant I had done it ALL wrong.
It was not a black and white thing for me. As my confidence to handle my whole life has grown, my codependency has shrunk.
Feeling good about myself and holding onto that feeling REGARDLESS of how someone else reacts to me has been challenging. It feels like another part of my growth continuum.
I think my recovery from my eating disorder was about how I felt about me, myself and I. My recovery from being married to an alcoholic and my codenpendcy is me taking my eating disorder recovery on the road and being with people.
Thanks for the book recommendation! It sounds great!
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Originally Posted by LifeRecovery
Thanks for the book recommendation! It sounds great!
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Yes of course to all those questions.
Originally Posted by ZiggyB
I started reading this book "The Six Pillars of Self Esteem" and I have a quote I'd like to share with you all:
At times it seems so clear to me that codependency is a function of low self-esteem but I am wondering what the rest of you think? Did you accept behavior you shouldn't have in order to make someone else happy? Were you afraid of rocking the boat? Did you long to be treated with more care and love, like I did? Did you somehow believe you didn't deserve anything better?
At times it seems so clear to me that codependency is a function of low self-esteem but I am wondering what the rest of you think? Did you accept behavior you shouldn't have in order to make someone else happy? Were you afraid of rocking the boat? Did you long to be treated with more care and love, like I did? Did you somehow believe you didn't deserve anything better?
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Originally Posted by Lynnrae2
I let my A treat me like crap, but I never took that kind of crap from anyone else. I dont consider myself to have low self esteem. I do consider myself a kind hearted person. I would also say that I am somewhat naive when it comes to things(or at least I used to be)
I had never encountered anyone with an addiction before. I had never encountered anyone with the anger issues that my A had either. I also didnt realize(the naive part) that my A was an alcoholic until I was emotionally tagged and broken.
It wasnt until I came out of the relationship and I started educating myself on alcoholics and sociopathic people, that I started to figure it out.
Now that I know what I am dealing with, I know to stay away from it and will not ever let him or any human being treat me with that kind of disrespect again.
I have definately learned a life lesson and I am so much stronger for it.
I had never encountered anyone with an addiction before. I had never encountered anyone with the anger issues that my A had either. I also didnt realize(the naive part) that my A was an alcoholic until I was emotionally tagged and broken.
It wasnt until I came out of the relationship and I started educating myself on alcoholics and sociopathic people, that I started to figure it out.
Now that I know what I am dealing with, I know to stay away from it and will not ever let him or any human being treat me with that kind of disrespect again.
I have definately learned a life lesson and I am so much stronger for it.
I was so needy I sought love from an alcoholic who proved to be not only uninterested but downright mean and nasty. I naively believed him when he spun lies misrepresenting himself & accepted the crumbs of "intermittent rewards" he dropped to keep me coming back. Why?
Because I KNEW he would leave me if I insisted on being treated respectfully, which is exactly what happened.
You can tell a lot about a person by the company they keep...having self-esteem acts as a force field to weed out those who insist on treating you without care, respect and dignity.
I've had to look closely at myself to understand why I put up with such crap behavior. It's been a painful learning experience but I know never again will I be sucked in by a manipulative alcoholic.
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Originally Posted by trublnshangrila
Wow, I couldv'e written that. I, too, had never been exposed to alcoholism before I met him. My low self-esteem and neediness left me open to being used & taken advantage of in the hands of the wrong person.
I was so needy I sought love from an alcoholic who proved to be not only uninterested but downright mean and nasty. I naively believed him when he spun lies misrepresenting himself & accepted the crumbs of "intermittent rewards" he dropped to keep me coming back. Why?
Because I KNEW he would leave me if I insisted on being treated respectfully, which is exactly what happened.
I was so needy I sought love from an alcoholic who proved to be not only uninterested but downright mean and nasty. I naively believed him when he spun lies misrepresenting himself & accepted the crumbs of "intermittent rewards" he dropped to keep me coming back. Why?
Because I KNEW he would leave me if I insisted on being treated respectfully, which is exactly what happened.
http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/women/page5.htm
We keep hoping the good times will come around and stay for awhile, I guess.
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Originally Posted by ZiggyB
Yeah I have been there, my A. was not only nasty, he was high strung, controlling and demanding. I don't know why I kept coming back either but my therapist told me about the cycle of abuse which you can check out here:
The Cycle of Abuse | Domestic Violence Wheel | Emotionally Battered Women
We keep hoping the good times will come around and stay for awhile, I guess.
The Cycle of Abuse | Domestic Violence Wheel | Emotionally Battered Women
We keep hoping the good times will come around and stay for awhile, I guess.
Thanks for the link & the great posts.
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This has been a very interesting thread for me.
I don't think my issue was low self esteem. I think I saw examples of selflessness in my life growing up. My mother and my family always put other people first. My family was kind and loving and charitable. Luckily, that kindness was returned and reciprocal.
However, for some reason, I took that reciprocity for granted. Somehow I removed my own happiness from the equation.
My A was strong, ambitious and funny when I met him. But he was also very wounded and broken. "How perfect" I thought. I would complete him. I would fix him and make him feel loved and happy. I would rescue him. I couldn't accept that I failed at that...so, I kept trying. Within that mess somewhere, my brain was rewired to support codependency.
NO ONE would ever get away with treating me the way that my A did. I work in a world where I have to stand my ground all of the time -sometimes with an audience. It is very clear that you don't mess with me and my boundaries are well established.
Maybe, on this journey of recovery I will see that low self-esteem was a factor. But right now, to answer your question ZiggyB, I would say no - in my experience.
(apologies for the long-winded response)
Hugs,
MamaKit
I don't think my issue was low self esteem. I think I saw examples of selflessness in my life growing up. My mother and my family always put other people first. My family was kind and loving and charitable. Luckily, that kindness was returned and reciprocal.
However, for some reason, I took that reciprocity for granted. Somehow I removed my own happiness from the equation.
My A was strong, ambitious and funny when I met him. But he was also very wounded and broken. "How perfect" I thought. I would complete him. I would fix him and make him feel loved and happy. I would rescue him. I couldn't accept that I failed at that...so, I kept trying. Within that mess somewhere, my brain was rewired to support codependency.
NO ONE would ever get away with treating me the way that my A did. I work in a world where I have to stand my ground all of the time -sometimes with an audience. It is very clear that you don't mess with me and my boundaries are well established.
Maybe, on this journey of recovery I will see that low self-esteem was a factor. But right now, to answer your question ZiggyB, I would say no - in my experience.
(apologies for the long-winded response)
Hugs,
MamaKit
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