Looking4ward

Hi guys! I haven't been on here so much because I'm actually doing really well. No, I still haven't done anything about my professional situation and that still messes with my self-esteem but something else occurred to me.

I'm trying to date again and it isn't easy. I'm 35 and I was already thinking about kids when I got married to my ex at 28. In fact, this was one of the reasons it was so hard for me to let go.

So dating again, I'm having a hard time letting anyone close. Partly because of what happened in my marriage, but also because I just plain don't know what I'm supposed to be attracted to anymore.

But there's another underlying thing that's going on that I don't really know how to approach. I mean, writing you guys is obviously the first step... I'd really love your opinions.

I grew up with an alcoholic abusive dad, I have one sister and a SERIOUSLY enabling mother - i.e. No positive male images. When I was in college I had my heart broken a few times - I guess 'cause I had a low self-image and was looking for a saviour. Then there was my husband where I got to recreate my family drama with another substance abuser.

Ultimately, the problem I'm having now is believing that men can fall in love, be fidel and honest and emotional. All emotions that I've always considered 'feminine,' which, as irrational as that is, goes straight to the heart of it.

I KNOW it's not rational, so how do I go about opening myself to the REALITY that men love, are responsible and loyal and Adore their women... because that's the kind of relationship I want... If only I believed it were possible...

Learn2Live

I have no idea. Every time I think I have found such a man, after a while he turns out to be selfish and immature. So, if you find one please tell me where and how.

blowfly

Hi there, i've started to write a couple of times and thought what am i doing even thinking of sharing my thoughts with you seing as my relationships a mess! so i'll tell you and read it after so i can practise what i preach! before you indulge in a relationship with anyone else, indulge in a relationship with yourdelf first. learn who you are and what you want and more importantly what you dont want in life. learn to trust your instincts and have confidence in how you feel. learn to respect yourself and appreciate who you are. this wont find you the perfect partner but it will give you the strength to not be in a relationship that isnt right for you and to enjoy a relationship that is.there are plenty of people in the world who are honest, decent, loving, caring and will want the same life as you.

Looking4ward

Blowfly, aren't you just a precious pea!
So, short answer, dating is PART of my enjoying myself, enjoying my attractiveness and the last of my fleeting (hopefully not completely gone!) youth. I'm finally allowing myself to do the things I 'thought' were only reserved for others. Dating is one of those things. I can wear high heel shoes and flirt coquettishly over a glass of wine and not feel like I don't belong. It's nice!
Dating is also good for me because as I date, I do come closer to understanding what is attractive to me.

But still the question remains how will I find "people in the world who are honest, decent, loving, caring and will want the same in life" if I, due to my childhood and experiences, have some blocked belief that keeps me from seeing or believing them?

How do I build trust that they exist?

Chris1000101

I’ve never had a significant female in my life that’s been worth a damn, I wonder the same thing at times but I’ve decided to remain single. Female friends are ok but the more time I spend around them the more nuts I become. I know it’ll never work so I never think of a relationship going farther than a cup of coffee. At one time I was being to judgmental and had expectations that not even HP could meet. Today I have my boundaries and a fair idea of what I’m willing to tolerate. I have to be honest with myself before I can be honest with others. With some areas of my life I believe it is also true that I have to trust myself before I can trust others.

Just like the alcoholic needs “dry people, dry places and dry things” to get sober, I need healthy people in my life if I expect to get healthy myself.

cli

I've struggled with this concept as well, and really it was through trial and error that I found some of my answers. (My recent relationship with my XRABF set me back a bit though, I must admit.)

After a previous long-term relationship ended, I had a few short ones, some painful (yet some happy) experiences ALL of which helped me narrow down what I wanted. And thanks to my XRABF, what I DON'T want as well.

Another thing that really helped me was having a very good close male friend. A few years ago I asked him the very same questions, "Do men ever really fall in love? Do they ever adore their women?" His answer was a very firm, "Heck YES!"

I'm sure the men on this forum, like the lovely Titanic, will attest to this as well. But of course, I know seeing is believing, so maybe simply go on more dates! At least you can have a bit of fun while you're at it...

lillamy

It's a bit like looking for unicorns, right? If you've never seen one, how can you know they even exist?

You used the word "attraction" several times. I found for myself that when I started in that end, it didn't end up so well. When I looked for men I was attracted to, I ended up with Dangerous Boys. Or Boys I Could Save.

I think if I had started at the other end -- with "what do I really want from someone I can share my life with?" -- it would have been different. Forgive the terribly rude comparison, but... it's a bit like shopping for shoes. Those six-inch skinny heels look marvelously yummy, but they only end up hurting you and you can't dance in them and at the end of the night you end up walking home barefoot anyway. If you start looking for comfortable, reliable, nice -- then you will end up finding what you need and the calm, boring, everyday, drama-free LOVE is something so much more valuable than "attraction". At least that's what it's like for me. And why I love my running shoes and my new man. Neither of whom are uncomfortable and dangerous -- the kind of stuff I associated with "attraction"...

I think for me, "attraction" was really the smell of danger. And that led me wrong too many times...

And I think maybe that... thinking that men are so much different from women is putting too much distance between us. Most men I know want the same thing most women want -- a calm home to come home to, a car that runs, enough money to put dinner on the table and maybe then some, and an utter lack of drama.

I think it's less that good traits are lacking in men (or women, for you guys) -- and more that we're not really sure what we're looking for and end up confusing ourselves.

MycoolFitz

Men by natuue are not bad maybe. I am reading a book my mom sent me and this. And I got back to feeding my homeless brothers and sisters. What else is there? Oh and not drinking.

cli

Yeah! Good one lillamy. I'm a staunch feminist, BUT I get equally annoyed at movies or TV that keep perpetuating the idea the All Men Are Pigs as well. None of us are doing ourselves any favours by believing that good communication skills or the ability to nurture and be kind are "feminine" traits. Likewise, good leadership and ambition aren't exclusively "masculine" either.

Popular culture is saturated with these sexist stereotypes though, however "subtle" they are these days, so it's hard to shake the feeling that we'll never get along without lowering our standards and/or making gender-related excuses. People are people, and bad behaviour is bad behaviour!

fluffyflea

Start reading about Adult Children of Alcoholics. That's a good first step towards changing.

Looking4ward

I was thinking about this too as I was going to sleep. I used to believe that, even as my mom was railing on me how all men are the same and need to be taken care of.

I think this is compounded by the fact that I ended up in a new city with little support. I do have a male friend, but he's a little screwed up. He's got this kind of revolving door of women he keeps strung along in his life. It's pretty disgusting. But I've known him so long that it's not really a question of cutting him out of my life. He's like a cousin. Still, I bet I could talk to him about this. It might even help him with whatever he's going through.

And, actually, it helps talking to you guys about this and admitting these weird conceptions I formed when I was young.

LifeRecovery

I am learning that what I do in intimate relationships I have also played out with friendships, work relationships, etc.

We are the same age (for me only a couple more weeks at 35, glup) and I am facing some similar fears about relationships.

I had someone make overtures a couple of weeks ago about wanting to set me up and I became pretty emotional about even thinking about it. That helped me to see I am probably not ready for that yet.

I have been working on it in friendships though, and trying to change my patterns in those. I have ended a number of these recently that are not working for me, and I am working pretty hard on the last one that has a similar trajectory and some pretty big intersecting points with my ExAH.

I am finding that almost always the answer comes back to me. Someone else might be doing something not okay, but I have previously allowed it, stayed and stewed about it. I feel so lucky that I am getting a do over (and it sounds like you are too).

I did not grow up in an alcoholic home, but both parents did. I have related to and gotten a lot from AcOA readings, Claudia Black is one of the authors I found really helpful outside of Al-Anon readings on this.

I also have gotten a lot of support about my old thinking in therapy. Even just recognizing and naming some of my old beliefs are amazing.

cli

Hmm... I had to think about this one for a bit. I guess we can just say our noses are smelling wrong, and to go pick the opposite of who we want. But I am attracted to smart, handsome, charming, charismatic and successful men. And yeah, a bit of danger and vulnerability keeps things interesting too...

My REAL problem wasn't who I was attracted to, it was that I ignored all the signs that this man wasn't actually being the guy who I was originally attracted to. My idea of "danger" is swimming with stingrays, not dodging things a drunkard throws at me. "Taking care" of someone means sharing a cry and talking through troubles, not cleaning up their puke and pee.

Given that I both swam with stingrays and shared a cry with my ex, and he was smart, charming, handsome, etc., I can say I chose very well. BUT, I chose to stay even when he wasn't actually who he was cracked up to be, throwing things and peeing on the floor...

Nothing wrong with my sniffer, and nothing wrong with "attractiveness" either. But next time, I'll be damn sure to cut it off quick if an "attractive" man ever throws something at me again! I may not fully trust men again yet, but at least I'm slowly learning to trust myself (and my nose).

Hopeworks

Oh my.... great thread!

I have dove with stingrays even though my dad almost died after stepping on one when I was a child. We had to race him to the hospital in our boat in Miami. He was highly allergic.

I have swam with sharks (my dad threw us in if we were afraid to "get over" it).... such a nice dad.

So... it is no wonder that one my bucket list is to dive with a Whale Shark in the Bay Islands and to get in a shark cage with Great White Sharks swimming all around off Mexico or Africa.

I hate high heels as I have the worst feet and can hardly wear them but the analogy is a perfect one... and I even have a shoe story!

I had a handsome, successful and charming man chase me for months when I owned a large nightclub many years ago. He would take off his shoe and put it on the bar and wink at me with the cutest smile and twinkling eyes... he wore size 13.5 shoes. This was a big joke among the crowd he ran with that was also friends of mine.

I resisted his charms and this went on for a long time. Gosh he was hot looking... and I can still see that snake charmer (still not well ladies).

Anyway... 6 months of his chasing me I went out with him knowing he was bad news. We went together for 6 months or so until I caught him cheating... grrrrrrrrr.

If they are hot mess and hot looking... well I am attracted like a moth to the flame KNOWING that it will not end well.

Soooooooo... like the alcoholic in recovery I have had to swear off men... if you aren't bad news I am yawning and looking for the exit.

I do know some great men that are the real deal... I would just need to knock off their wives!

Just kidding of course.... but I am still baby stepping and hoping that someday somewhere my prince will come and will be a nice guy and I will actually want to be with him for more than 5 minutes.

Sueski

I have gone out with nice guys. Dumped them quickly for jerks and guys with issues, every time. I think of this as my "A**holes-Only" rule. Warped thinking, much? Promised myself a long time ago that if I ever find myself single again I will NOT do this!!

Lillamy has it exactly right, IMHO.

Hopeworks

At least we are at step one with our common malady.

Hi... my name is Hope and I am A-hole-aholic...

lol... how do we rewire our broken circuitry??????

MycoolFitz

It is not set in stone I am a guy who has trouble with guys but aqlso with women. I am learning to look at my own ownership. I believeve in love peace and understanding not so easy to find and give.

onlythetruth

Well, the reality is that men are people. So are women! And there are good and bad, sick and well, among us and an awful lot of in-between.

I realize this seems simplistic but it's so easy to forget when we've only experienced the bad.

I spent my entire life in a series of bad relationships. Always men who were distant, self-absorbed, addicted, abusive. This continued after I quit drinking myself.

Then, following a divorce and a disastrous relationship, I realized that the common denominator in all those relationships was ME. I was the one picking these men. I was attracted to the disasters like a bee to honey.

I suppose I could have given up following this realization. I could have decided that I was too damaged myself to ever be in a decent relationship. I could have decided that my own long-term addiction, even though it was over, forever disqualified me from such things. I really thought this, actually. I do know that it is much worse to be in a bad relationship than it is to be single!!! But I decided, with the help of my therapist, to give it another chance.

So I decided to set some boundaries and I did this in the form of a list. I wrote up a list of absolute requirements that any man must have if I was to date him. This was not like an adolescent girl's wish list (nice car, money, hot body). It was the list of a woman who knew a few things. It went something like this:

1. Not an addict--either never addicted or recovered for at least 2 years.
2. Essentially kind. Sense of humor necessary but mean-spirited humor an immediate disqualifier.
3. Generally healthy--non smoker, no drinking to excess, basically healthy habits.
4. If a parent, must show evidence of good parenting skills and healthy relationships with kids.
5. Must be available for relationship--not married or separated. Single.
6. Financially solvent and employed.
7. Must be open about his life.

..... the list was longer than this, actually, but you get the idea.

And then I stuck to it. When tempted to date a guy who was separated, I consulted the list and said no. When tempted to date a funny, but sarcastic guy who was always making fun of people, I consulted the list and said no. When tempted to date a guy whose daily routine was something of a mystery, I consulted the list and said no.

I thus avoided every mistake I was used to making! And, while I am very aware that I was lucky in about a zillion ways, I did meet a great guy, married him and am enjoying the type of relationship I'd only dreamed of in the past.

So I am a great proponent of The List. You might want to try making one just to see....although one hint...making the list is not as easy as it seems!

Tuffgirl

I read this yesterday and it hit home for me, so I needed some time to think about it before responding. I am in the same boat...getting back into dating again after a painful 4 years. And the only thing I can offer you today is I may not know exactly what I am looking for, but I certainly know what I don't want again. Ever.

And today, I have the self confidence to believe in myself and what I have to offer. If someone doesn't want that, or thinks its less than worthy, he is not the right person for me. Time to move on.

Today, I believe in a higher power. And I trust that higher power to help me along the way. And by trusting in that, I feel far more secure in my ability to keep my eyes wide open, to not get blinded by my own fantasies, to be far more open-minded to others' quirks, and to feel grounded in reality. I am comfortable being alone and I don't feel lonely when I am alone. So relationships are a privilege, not a necessity.

I choose to look at dating as an opportunity to meet interesting people, not as a pre-requisite to marriage and kids (neither of which I want, therefore removes that pressure). But I am not afraid to stand firm on what I do want (monogamy from any partner I am intimate with, for instance) and am no longer afraid to have those expectations.

Thanks for a very thought-provoking thread. I really needed to think about this right now!
~T

shawty80

ott, in no way does making the list seem easy!