We Can't Talk

Old 10-24-2012, 06:31 PM
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We Can't Talk

17 Days Sober

I can't talk to my newly sober AH. I can't talk to him at all.

I can't even look at AH.

I came home today after a short business trip. He didn't say a single word to me. Just sat in his office.

I know that he's mad because I got a babysitter and had the kids stay at the neighbor's house. I try to tell myself to let him be angry. That I don't care. But I do care. So, I react to him AGAIN. Even thought I told myself that I wouldn't. I tell him that I don't appreciate the silent anger.

And he says that he's not angry. He's ashamed. He says that he talked to his therapist who said that he would have feelings and that I should let him feel them.

Okay....it might not be anger, but it's still directed at me. And it's still about him. Is there a right and a wrong way to have feelings? I have no idea. If there was a wrong way, though, this would be it.

We argue about it but it's like we're speaking two different languages. I'm saying something normal in my language, but it's a horrible insult in his language. And he says a normal word in his language, which is taboo in mine.

We can't connect in any single way at all. Not at all. It would be so much easier if we were separate, but he won't go and neither will I. So, we're stuck in the same place together and I'm just thinking at him .... leave, leave, leave.
Because honestly, I don't think that either one of us can recover with the other one there.

And I'm just so confused.
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:01 PM
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The emotional zombie has taken residence in your home, and you have not had enough Al-Anon or other recovery to be able to adjust well to it. Another one of the predictable situations brought on by this scourge of a disease.

As you know, I already posted at length on your "Two Weeks In" thread about this.

Can either of you go to a family member's or friend's place for a couple of weeks?
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:04 PM
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He's ashamed of himself. That's a big deal. And an even bigger deal to admit. His feelings are his, he has a right to them. You know why he's quiet. He told you it's not directed at you. So . . . ? Isn't it good he's admitting to that?

We can't go through life taking other people's feelings too personally. That's puts us on an impossible rollercoaster. And yes, two languages. Man / Woman. Addict / Not and in some cases /Codependent. There are different languages here. Men aren't hairy woman! We do need to learn to talk to men and they need to talk to us. The goal is to start meeting in the middle.

Have you thought about marriage therapy?
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:17 PM
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Grace, my girlfriend visited me for the first time after I had been in rehab for about two weeks. It was brutal for both of us, I don't don't knwo what she expected to see, but I was incapable of holding onto a thought for more than five or ten seconds. I remember conversing with her and feeling frustrated because something would pop in my head and if I didn't get it out immediately, by the time she finished what she was saying, I could not remember what I had wanted to say to her. It didn't help that visiting hours were only three hours long, and she could only come to see me on Sundays, so there was that pressure of knowing that if we didn't say it then we wouldn't have the opportunity for another week (I hadn't been granted phone privledges at the time).

My point is that while your AH may look normal, his mental and emotional balance is quite likely shot right now. It will improve over time, but 17 days is early recovery and you shouldn't judge his responses and reactions as you normally would.

To get a better idea what is going on inside of him physically and neurologically, I suggest you read "Under the Influence" by James Milam. It's a little dated, but has tons of good information; it really helped me understand what was happening during early sobriety.

Good luck.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:11 PM
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That emotional zombie can come in different forms. They vary by person, intensity of the alcoholism/addiction, certain dual diagnoses, and the amount of recovery and healing progress made. I use "zombie" to describe not to criticize. It may take 6 months to 2 years to exit the "zombie" state.
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:51 PM
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I can say that I can imagine what he's going through, and tell you that I tell my wife don't try and interpret what is going on, listen to what I'm saying. Take the words literally.
Sounds like he isn't directing anything AT you.
It sounds like he's processing. As alcoholics, there is a lot to process for a while, coping with feelings, and what has been done in the past, and how to move forward.
I wouldn't take it personally if he tells you that.
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:02 PM
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This really is an entirely new world to him, one in which he hasn't had to function in quite a long time (depending on how long he's been battling the disease). It's scary to have feelings and be sober. And yes, it is all about him, as it should be. His recovery should be about him and no one else. Take his words at face value. What kind of recovery program are YOU working?
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DoubleBarrel View Post
I can say that I can imagine what he's going through, and tell you that I tell my wife don't try and interpret what is going on, listen to what I'm saying. Take the words literally.
Sounds like he isn't directing anything AT you.
It sounds like he's processing. As alcoholics, there is a lot to process for a while, coping with feelings, and what has been done in the past, and how to move forward.
I wouldn't take it personally if he tells you that.
I have to agree that, particularly at the beginning of sobriety, my AH's emotional state was... Not predictable. And, he did not communicate well with me. When he got like that, I gave up trying to communicate my thoughts with him, too. After reading stories on SR, I realized that none of his inner tumult was about me whether he claimed it was or not, and only he was responsible for fixing himself. That knowledge gave me some pretty thick skin.

I also want to mention though, something I've gotten pretty sensitive to over the last few years (maybe my skin isn't so thick after all). My AH would often make snarky comments at me that were honestly not nice. He would be sarcastic and condescending and then deny it. he had the idea that I was interpretting his meaning based on something other than his words taken at face value. He refused to acknowledge the role that non-verbal cues have in our everyday communication - things like tone of voice and body language. He actually asked me to tutor him on the subject like he was a three-year old. I understand now that he was gaslighting me, and it was effective for a long while. I can't say how he convinced me to quiet that inner voice of mine letting me know something was wrong, but he did. Now, I will never again stand someone telling me to just "take my words literally." I don't think that's a reasonable option for most adult conversations.

I say, if he's not capable of communicating or dealing with his emotions in an adult way, give him space. He's not in a good place in his head right now. But, with just a short time sober, that is normal. Just don't let him make you doubt yourself or deny your own feelings.

Take care,
Fathom
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:38 AM
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I had to learn that being ashamed of themselves in huge. They are beating themselves up so much. While I thought anger was directed at me-he had so much anger directed at himself. It was difficult but I had to learn that he wasn't angry at me and I just had to let him feel what he was feeling. Getting out of the house helped-doing anything-exercise helped a lot to. Just get out-go shopping-go for a walk-onto a park and read. Anything to get away for a bit.
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:25 AM
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This is baby steps, both of you are very raw and vunerable.

There has to be a slow transition back to trust, walls have to come down, there is no communication with walls. It's simply going to take time. You have both shared a lot of pain, it's really hard.

He needs to work a program, honey, you need to take good care of yourself.

None of this is easy, looking back now, I'm not sure I would have stuck around for the sobriety if it had been my xa's path. I was at low rock bottom, lots of rebuilding for me, I'm glad to be done with it now. So much pain for both of us.

Hang in, keep posting, be good to yourself. Katie xo
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:27 AM
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Agree with everything. If you still love him, walk up to him out of the blue, give him a big hug, and tell him so.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:57 AM
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Aw, Grace, early recovery is so freakin' frustrating. The worst part is that it's still so very vague... it's not like you have a clear-cut promise that once you ride out THIS part of the storm, you'll actually get to your Happily Ever After.

AH & I could NOT communicate in the first 90 days of his recovery. At all. All we did was increase frustration on both sides. We both felt justified & wounded & couldn't even identify all the hurts yet. I thought I was in hell.... I just couldn't see where it was all going.

I've learned SO MUCH by reading here. Not just about my own needs & issues, or even what might be happening inside his head. Information on the physiological changes recovering A's go through & how long it takes for those things to happen blew my mind. I had no clue about a lot of the fine details & once I did it helped my perspective. (No excuses for him or his behavior, but it helped me gauge whether I was setting unrealistic expectations sometimes. I found that very helpful.)

Keep reading, lurk over in the Alcoholism forum sometimes & just objectively read some of the posts. Go back anytime & read my old posts.... I've talked about this issue a few times & feel like I shared a lot more than I have time for here right now. I didn't join this forum until my husband was nearly a year sober, so all of my posts are during the time after he quit actively drinking until now. (He's 15 months sober)

You were right when you said it's like you're speaking 2 different languages. You kinda are. I also felt the same way about separating.... sometimes you just crave some distance from each other to process what you're going through.
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Old 10-25-2012, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Fathom View Post
he had the idea that I was interpretting his meaning based on something other than his words taken at face value. He refused to acknowledge the role that non-verbal cues have in our everyday communication - things like tone of voice and body language. He actually asked me to tutor him on the subject like he was a three-year old. I understand now that he was gaslighting me, and it was effective for a long while. I can't say how he convinced me to quiet that inner voice of mine letting me know something was wrong, but he did. Now, I will never again stand someone telling me to just "take my words literally." I don't think that's a reasonable option for most adult conversations.

Take care,
Fathom
Oh I think its reasonable for MOST conversations with men.
We've all been in that situation where we make a direct statement, and someone says - what do you mean by that?
My inner barometer always goes (warning, crazy!) over those.
That being said, obviously, theres a lot of room for snarky and sarcastic comments, and if someone isn't acknowledging the "tone" behind them, yeah thats pretty messed up, and I could see it being annoying as hell.

I try and say what I mean and do what I say, keep it simple.
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Old 10-25-2012, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Graceland View Post
17 Days Sober

I can't talk to my newly sober AH. I can't talk to him at all.

I can't even look at AH.

I came home today after a short business trip. He didn't say a single word to me. Just sat in his office.

I know that he's mad because I got a babysitter and had the kids stay at the neighbor's house. I try to tell myself to let him be angry. That I don't care. But I do care. So, I react to him AGAIN. Even thought I told myself that I wouldn't. I tell him that I don't appreciate the silent anger.

And he says that he's not angry. He's ashamed. He says that he talked to his therapist who said that he would have feelings and that I should let him feel them.

Okay....it might not be anger, but it's still directed at me. And it's still about him. Is there a right and a wrong way to have feelings? I have no idea. If there was a wrong way, though, this would be it.

We argue about it but it's like we're speaking two different languages. I'm saying something normal in my language, but it's a horrible insult in his language. And he says a normal word in his language, which is taboo in mine.

We can't connect in any single way at all. Not at all. It would be so much easier if we were separate, but he won't go and neither will I. So, we're stuck in the same place together and I'm just thinking at him .... leave, leave, leave.
Because honestly, I don't think that either one of us can recover with the other one there.

And I'm just so confused.
Hi Graceland, this is my first post on this website. Your situation is in some ways similar to mine, so I thought I'd share and offer thoughts, advice, frustrations, and questions.

Sounds like you are frustrated and hurt that he didn't acknowledge your return home with a "hi honey, glad you're back.". It's possible he's on complete overload emotionally.

If you think he's mad because you got a sitter and had the kids somewhere else, tell him that and that you understand. Reacting to his emotions won't help you or him.

Yep, he will have feelings and you may not like them, but not much you can do about them. Don't be defensive, hang in there.

My AG (Alcoholic Girlfriend) and I are having troubles communicating. About once, maybe twice a day, for a brief period, we will be able to connect. But so often we just can't talk or communicate. Recently she made it about 4 weeks before drinking, even though it was less than 3 beers, she drank. After that, it was about a week, and she drank again, which was last night. That was about 5 beers.

Recently, she will tell me that she doesn't feel like herself in this new sober state, and that she's changing for me and she shouldn't do that. I instantly know at that point, we won't be able to talk, because then it's she can't do anything right and it's always her fault and I'm ashamed of her and I treat her like a kid and she feels like she's being punished.

I know exactly what you mean about he says something and you don't get it, and you say something and he doesn't get it. It's SO frustrating.

Here's my mantra that seems to be helping me. "I will work on me, and she will work on her." Try taking a step back, letting go of emotion, take a look at yourself, and see what you can do to improve your behavior in all of this. Talk with a friend or pastor. Read a self-help book on a subject related to ANY part of alcoholism, recovery, feelings, anger, etc.

Will your confusion go away soon? Probably not. Will he have a setback every now and then? Possibly. Is there hope for your future, when you are working on you? Absolutely. If you do a random act of kindness for him, will he instantly give a big thank you? Probably not, but that act of kindness will pay dividends for him and for you down the road.

Best of luck to you!
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