tired and beatned... (alcoholic wife)
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tired and beatned... (alcoholic wife)
I am married to a woman who drinks. I have heard the word "alcoholic" bandied about so much I am not sure what the exact definition is, but she does have problems with uncontrolled binge drinking. We have been married 6 years and a combination of my being naive (I don't drink) and her doing a good job of hiding it made me unaware of her problem for the first few years but it got worse to the point she could not hide it. Now there almost a 50/50 chance that as soon as she knows I will be out (say at work) she will binge drink until she passes out. This is not a social thing for her, quite the opposite as she does not drink when others are around. This is most likely due to her trying to suppress some pretty awful things that have happened to her in the passed (I say most likely as she will only tell me bits a pieces if she is drunk, nothing if she is sober).
in the title i say "tired" as that is exactly where i am now, worn down, tired, beaten. The most difficult part of all this for me is that she refuses to go any further than admitting she has a problem. I see others posting about how their alcoholic spouses say they are "planning to quit", she doesn't. When i catch her drunk (either before passed out or while sobering up) she will usually tell me what a bad person she is and how i deserve better but then once she is sober it is like nothing ever happened. She only drinks when she is alone, if i am around or she is at her family's house where there are people around her constantly she won't drink but leave her alone for an afternoon and forget about it. I managed to make her go to trauma counseling for awhile but that ended when the counselor apparently hit a nerve and she left and got drunk (i called the police and everything trying to find her). As a last ditch effort i took her to an alcoholism center where they gave her a 6mo Disulfiram shot (we are in Europe, tried the Disulfiram pills and that lasted all of a week) and every time the shot wears off (3 times we done this now) i give her a chance to stay sober without the shot but to date she has not been able to. The worst part is she fights me every step of the way, doesn't want to go to counseling (went to 5 different counselors for various reasons), gets mad at me when i insist upon the shots, and gets mad/despondent when i try to talk to her about her problem. At this center they tell me she is not physically addicted, its in her head (but if she kept drinking at the rate she was going she would be mentally and physically addicted soon). It of course doesn't help that her mother is in partial denial about this (knows she has a problem drinking but says her daughter is "not an alcoholic". Its depressing to me that she will stop drinking out of fear (Disulfiram effects) but not our of feelings for others or her own well being (she routinely hurt herself when she got drunk). The only thing i have left is these disulfiram shots which give me my sweet wife back for 6mo but disulfiram is not a cure and i don't know where else to go from here...
in the title i say "tired" as that is exactly where i am now, worn down, tired, beaten. The most difficult part of all this for me is that she refuses to go any further than admitting she has a problem. I see others posting about how their alcoholic spouses say they are "planning to quit", she doesn't. When i catch her drunk (either before passed out or while sobering up) she will usually tell me what a bad person she is and how i deserve better but then once she is sober it is like nothing ever happened. She only drinks when she is alone, if i am around or she is at her family's house where there are people around her constantly she won't drink but leave her alone for an afternoon and forget about it. I managed to make her go to trauma counseling for awhile but that ended when the counselor apparently hit a nerve and she left and got drunk (i called the police and everything trying to find her). As a last ditch effort i took her to an alcoholism center where they gave her a 6mo Disulfiram shot (we are in Europe, tried the Disulfiram pills and that lasted all of a week) and every time the shot wears off (3 times we done this now) i give her a chance to stay sober without the shot but to date she has not been able to. The worst part is she fights me every step of the way, doesn't want to go to counseling (went to 5 different counselors for various reasons), gets mad at me when i insist upon the shots, and gets mad/despondent when i try to talk to her about her problem. At this center they tell me she is not physically addicted, its in her head (but if she kept drinking at the rate she was going she would be mentally and physically addicted soon). It of course doesn't help that her mother is in partial denial about this (knows she has a problem drinking but says her daughter is "not an alcoholic". Its depressing to me that she will stop drinking out of fear (Disulfiram effects) but not our of feelings for others or her own well being (she routinely hurt herself when she got drunk). The only thing i have left is these disulfiram shots which give me my sweet wife back for 6mo but disulfiram is not a cure and i don't know where else to go from here...
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Welcome to SR DaveH...I'm glad you found us. You're among people who 'get it' because we've lived through so many of the things you describe.
Just a few thoughts.
One...alcoholism is a progressive disease which means it will only get worse unless/until the alcoholic seeks recovery for themselves because THEY want it. Not because someone talked them into it.
Second...there is NOTHING you can do or say that will lead her to seek recovery one minute sooner than she is ready and willing. you didn't cause her drinking...you can't control it...and you can't cure it. But when we live with the disease of alocholism, we become just as sick as they are. Although we aren't obsessing about where the next drink is coming from (like they do), we obsess about how much they are drinking, when they are drinking, and what we can do to get it to stop. The thing is...you aren't that powerful. you can' cure her disease of alcoholism any more than you could cure her if she had cancer or diabetes. The only thing you can do is take care of you and take steps to protect yourself from the fallout of her drinking.
If you haven't tried al anon, I encourage you to go. It saved my life...quite literally. I was married to an alcoholic for nearly 15 years. We had a child together. And towards the end of my marriage, I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown.
I wish you well. I hope you stick around. I think you'll find that we're a pretty nice bunch around here... We definitely understand as perhaps few others can how hard it is to deal with this disease in someone you love.
Just a few thoughts.
One...alcoholism is a progressive disease which means it will only get worse unless/until the alcoholic seeks recovery for themselves because THEY want it. Not because someone talked them into it.
Second...there is NOTHING you can do or say that will lead her to seek recovery one minute sooner than she is ready and willing. you didn't cause her drinking...you can't control it...and you can't cure it. But when we live with the disease of alocholism, we become just as sick as they are. Although we aren't obsessing about where the next drink is coming from (like they do), we obsess about how much they are drinking, when they are drinking, and what we can do to get it to stop. The thing is...you aren't that powerful. you can' cure her disease of alcoholism any more than you could cure her if she had cancer or diabetes. The only thing you can do is take care of you and take steps to protect yourself from the fallout of her drinking.
If you haven't tried al anon, I encourage you to go. It saved my life...quite literally. I was married to an alcoholic for nearly 15 years. We had a child together. And towards the end of my marriage, I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown.
I wish you well. I hope you stick around. I think you'll find that we're a pretty nice bunch around here... We definitely understand as perhaps few others can how hard it is to deal with this disease in someone you love.
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
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Unfortunately, this is a disease that has no cure. It is just a matter of whether
she is sober and working a strong recovery program or not. That's it, she will
be an alcoholic all her life.
My mother has been drinking non stop for 66 years, she is not a bar hopper,
she drinks alone, she has never been in recovery and sadly will die with a
drink in her hand.
All you can do is work on you. Get to Alanon meetings, read the stickeys at
the top of this forum and cynical one's blogs, which can be accessed at the
top of this page. Knowledge is power, learn allyou can about this disease.
Keep posting, it will help, we are here for you.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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I imagine that all this information sounds very grim, and I am so sorry for that. This is a dreadful disease, and it is beyond our control. But our lives CAN get better.
There are lots of things you can do to make YOUR life better, and that is all we who love alcoholics can do until they decide they are ready to change. And sometimes changing our own behavior does help them.
They call those of us who are enmeshed in a relationship with an active alcoholic "co-dependent". In some ways, we are trying to live the alcoholic's life for them, in the way we want it to be. Even if the alcoholic's choices make for a distraught, disrupted life, it is their right as an adult to choose to life that way. I am currently despairing for the future of my AH who has not chosen to change.
But there is hope, peace, and even some laughter for us partners. Melody Beattie has a series of books that are great - try getting a copy of Co-Dependent No More. It has so much information about what is going on when you are the partner of an active alcoholic.
Alanon and this site are incredibly supportive. Having a place to go with people who truly understand has made all the difference in my life.
People here say the three c's:
ShootingStar1
There are lots of things you can do to make YOUR life better, and that is all we who love alcoholics can do until they decide they are ready to change. And sometimes changing our own behavior does help them.
They call those of us who are enmeshed in a relationship with an active alcoholic "co-dependent". In some ways, we are trying to live the alcoholic's life for them, in the way we want it to be. Even if the alcoholic's choices make for a distraught, disrupted life, it is their right as an adult to choose to life that way. I am currently despairing for the future of my AH who has not chosen to change.
But there is hope, peace, and even some laughter for us partners. Melody Beattie has a series of books that are great - try getting a copy of Co-Dependent No More. It has so much information about what is going on when you are the partner of an active alcoholic.
Alanon and this site are incredibly supportive. Having a place to go with people who truly understand has made all the difference in my life.
People here say the three c's:
You didn't cause it
You can't control it
You can't cure it
There is a lot you can do for you, so come often, and don't feel alone.You can't control it
You can't cure it
ShootingStar1
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Thank you all for your understanding. I was considering having her to to AA but at the clinic they said two things: 1) She will only change when she wants to and 2) She is not physically addicted (yet). So i wanted to ask, is AA the right place as it seems to be for those who are/were (physically?) addicted. She is the drink (i mean pound) until she forgets type. I know nothing of AA but it seems to me she needs to work these psyc issues out then the craving a means to forget will subside. Either way, I am not sure how good either would do at the moment as I would have to make her go as i don't think she would go at my suggestion (hence defeating the point)...
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I am by no means an expert but it sounds like AA is actually perfect for her, but I will reiterate what the clinic said -- you have absolutely no chance of getting her to a meeting unless she is ready to go to one.
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I am not sure how to ask this but you all seem like an understanding bunch. What is the point of Alanon? I mean is it to stop drinking or is it to deal with the demons that are pushing one to drink? I ask this (and I am sure there is an element of denial in this question) because if it is to stop drinking and live a normal life then would an annual shot of disulfram (not sure if its available in the states in any form other than a daily tablet, but abroad the shots are easy to get) not achieve the same thing? Of course disulfram does nothing to tackle the root problem (inner demons it seems) but is more like a bandage that keeps a perpetual wound safe from infection. Denial aside, we do have a normal life (enjoyable even) when the disulfram is working and while she is not happy about getting the shots she does not refuse.
I feel like I have two drastic options that I haven't tried, #1 Ultimatum: start trying or leave #2 Instead of giving her a chance to voluntarily get the shots (I have given her a chance every time by saying nothing around the time the shot is wearing off and waiting to see if she takes responsibility) just be proactive once a year and require her to go get the shot.
I feel like I have two drastic options that I haven't tried, #1 Ultimatum: start trying or leave #2 Instead of giving her a chance to voluntarily get the shots (I have given her a chance every time by saying nothing around the time the shot is wearing off and waiting to see if she takes responsibility) just be proactive once a year and require her to go get the shot.
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First off, AA and Al-Anon are two separate things. AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) is support for alcoholics who want to stop drinking. Al-Anon is support for the families and friends of alcoholics. In other words, AA is for your wife, and Al-Anon is for YOU. Alcoholism is a family disease, and all who are affected by it need recovery of some sort to move past it. What that looks like in the end is different for everyone.
I know nothing about these shots or drugs and won't dispense medical advice.
Regarding your ultimatum...let me ask you this: What happens if she says no? What do YOU do if your ultimatum is rejected, or rather, what are you prepared to do? I can't suggest strongly enough that you really consider your answer to these questions before issuing an ultimatum.
I know nothing about these shots or drugs and won't dispense medical advice.
Regarding your ultimatum...let me ask you this: What happens if she says no? What do YOU do if your ultimatum is rejected, or rather, what are you prepared to do? I can't suggest strongly enough that you really consider your answer to these questions before issuing an ultimatum.
We all deserve respect & love
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Alanon helps to understand the fog & to cope
Alanon is for the loved ones of an A...it's not to get them to stop drinking...we can't control another's actions or thoughts. Alanon helps us to understand our relationship with the A (or As) in our life. It helps many of us from completely losing our mental functions. It helps us learn how to detach lovingly. It helps us deal with the emotional ups & downs. It helps us to redirect the focus back to our own health & welfare. It helps us to realize we are far from alone or unique in our situations with our A. I found Alanon very useful. I also utilized counselling for myself to break my bad reactive behaviours, learn healthier proactive behaviours & to break the bad mental programming. I'm 2.5 weeks away from 1 yr milestone of terminating the 13+ yr relationship with my AXBF. Like your wife, he didn't want to get any help & would drink til numb/passed out. I love & wish him well from afar. I would never get into a romantic relationship with him again. He doesn't have the qualities or skills necessary for a healthy relationship & I no longer settle.
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Thanks, I had no idea that these were two different things (am new to this, but was wondering why everyone was saying Alanon instead of AA).
I just tried googling it and tried via the al-anon.org website, apparently there are no meetings here, though I have confirmed AA is over here.
Regarding disulfram, i guess my point wasn't so much medical as asking about a different means to an end, that is (since AA and Alanon are different) is the point of AA to stop drinking or is it to tackle the demons that are causing one to drink (if just to stop drinking then the end is the same).
As for the ultimatum, I have been thinking about it for years. In truth I am getting closer and closer to calling it off; while it would be incredibly hard it would also be incredibly hard to keep dealing with this. The caveat is this feeling of "can't take it" is an issue when i don't have the security of knowing there is something else (disulfram) keeping her safe.
I just tried googling it and tried via the al-anon.org website, apparently there are no meetings here, though I have confirmed AA is over here.
Regarding disulfram, i guess my point wasn't so much medical as asking about a different means to an end, that is (since AA and Alanon are different) is the point of AA to stop drinking or is it to tackle the demons that are causing one to drink (if just to stop drinking then the end is the same).
As for the ultimatum, I have been thinking about it for years. In truth I am getting closer and closer to calling it off; while it would be incredibly hard it would also be incredibly hard to keep dealing with this. The caveat is this feeling of "can't take it" is an issue when i don't have the security of knowing there is something else (disulfram) keeping her safe.
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Dave - I suggest you take a read at some posts on the Alcoholism board & hear first hand from the other side about how ultimatums usually backfire. Sometimes ultimatums push an A to drink more not less..... I feel bad for you as it sounds like this is all very new to you & I know well about the feelings you're experiencing.
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I am going to let someone more knowledgeable about AA answer your question about the difference between AA and a drug that makes you stop drinking. It doesn't seem to me that the ends are the same but I don't have direct experience with it. None of my A's ever went to AA, or tried this drug.
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Originally Posted by backtolifeforme 
Dave - I suggest you take a read at some posts on the Alcoholism board & hear first hand from the other side about how ultimatums usually backfire. Sometimes ultimatums push an A to drink more not less..... I feel bad for you as it sounds like this is all very new to you & I know well about the feelings you're experiencing.
This is new to me in a way but in a way it is not. We have been married for 6 years, and it took me awhile to figure out she was an A and a year of pushing to go to counseling etc (obviously didn't work) as a second to last resort (last resort being leaving) I required she get a shot (which is not uncomon here, people getting this shot) so now it is a once a year thing as I have tried giving her a chance to take initiative and help her self when it wears off and as soon as she has an "episode" then she has no foot to stand on so we get another shot and have another year episode free.
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Originally Posted by SparkleKitty
I am going to let someone more knowledgeable about AA answer your question about the difference between AA and a drug that makes you stop drinking. It doesn't seem to me that the ends are the same but I don't have direct experience with it. None of my A's ever went to AA, or tried this drug.
We all deserve respect & love
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If you aren't 100% sure about leaving for good, have you considered a trial separation? Watch from a safer distance to see if she will be more active about taking some steps towards recovery?
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Another thought. Me trying to work through this (or perhaps justify an annual shot). Having read through the forum it seems to pretty much agreed that alcoholism is a disease, and having a medical (ok veterinary/animal science) background myself I see diseases all the time and work to treat the diseases; diabetics take insulin, chemo for cancer, even more and more drugs out there for keeping HIV and alzheimer under control (no cures yet that i am aware of); so how different is "treating" alcoholism with a medication? (acknowledging the difference that this is an unwilling person not an animal).
For the record, I am not asking this to be controversial, I am seriously trying to reason this out with myself (Please forgive me if i am offending anyone).
For the record, I am not asking this to be controversial, I am seriously trying to reason this out with myself (Please forgive me if i am offending anyone).
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Originally Posted by backtolifeforme
If you aren't 100% sure about leaving for good, have you considered a trial separation? Watch from a safer distance to see if she will be more active about taking some steps towards recovery?
We all deserve respect & love
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I've not had direct experience with that drug (it's known as Antabuse here) but know of 4 people who have used it with varying results. One of the 4 is still sober. The other 3 are still active As. The one who is still sober used it at beginning stages of recovery for short term management of cravings. He went off it after a full year in recovery & is now coping with living with a sober mind. The others tried to use it as a long term manangement tool & didn't commit to any recovery program, relying strictly on the drug. When life hit them with troubles/crisis, they all buckled, one by one, and went back to the bottle. I think that if there's some serious underlying mental health problems, the drug alone isn't going to help with longterm sobriety....believe in those cases a recovery program (ideally combined with individual counselling) can be helpful to learn coping strategies when times get tough & increases likelihood of longterm sobriety. Wishing you the best of luck. It's not easy dealing with this stuff.
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Welcome, DaveH.
I think the difference in my mind is the willingness of the person to seek treatment for a disease. That's the key here - your wife needs to accept treatment, she needs to want it.
It's a frustrating place to be in - where we are powerless over another person and watching them self destruct. Prayers to you today.
~T
I think the difference in my mind is the willingness of the person to seek treatment for a disease. That's the key here - your wife needs to accept treatment, she needs to want it.
It's a frustrating place to be in - where we are powerless over another person and watching them self destruct. Prayers to you today.
~T
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Dave,
I have an AW and came here pretty much in the same shape you are now. At the end of my rope, and angry/confused/frustrated/helpless/hopeful/ hopeless all at the same time.
My AW does not want to stop and I decided that as much as I hated to, I had to split and find my own life. I gave that ultimatum, which she threatened under the influence all the time. And fully intended to split, sell it all, and that after 40 years of a pretty good marriage.
Everyone here said about the same things and I didn't get it. Compounding the issue in my mind was the fact that I am a recently recovered alcoholic myself sober a little over two years now.
You see I never approached the problem from a trying to make her stop, as I knew that would have failed miserably. Despite that and a background in co-dependence counseling, I was fully co-dependent which made her manipulations to continue drinking and bad behaviors make me feel somehow at fault.
They told me to try Alanon, which I knew was for family and friends of alcoholics. I did when I finally found my AW voluntarily working one on one with our marriage counselor on her anger issues. The counselor was surprised when I said her drinking was up to her, the behaviors against me were the only things that affected me, and those boundaries are now set in stone.
She still drinks but does not act out her anger issues with me at the moment. I have to be honest I enabled her from the start, until her anger turned on me as her alcoholism progressed.
I attended two Alanon meetings, the first angry and thinking they would tell me how to control her behaviors, since they were driving me crazy, but not to drink. That driving me crazy comment proved who was in control and pulling all my strings. Alanon us helping me to become unresponsive emotionally to the pain she tries to inflict, but it turns out I had a need to be in control. I am not there yet but I am learning. The first thing the folks at Alanon said was to do some work with them to help myself before taking actions that can't easily be reversed. I am glad I did.
We have a nice life again, but not perfect. I am no longer overreacting to her moods and when escalated I don't hold up my end of a fight, I leave and we take time out. I will not argue with her while drinking, and will discuss the issues the next morning as she only drinks today after 5, and usually only to slurring a bit, and before getting nasty at that point.
I don't know if she will ever decide to quit drinking herself. She does drink at home as when I quit and she offered to not drink in front of me, I wasn't going to cause a DUI or worse, her or another's death or maiming and told her to drink at home and in front of me.
I am happy and so is she but it is early in our work towards serenity for the most part again.
My second Alanon meeting, the one I went to for support and to learn some skills to not try to fix my wife, just me, started just before it opened by the lady next to me asking why I was there. I told her that I had an AW and needed to work on my coping skills. She brightened up and said I must have been in the rooms awhile since I already knew that. I told her no, this would be the first meeting I would actually be receptive to. But that I did a lot of reading and got a lot of support here on SR.
We all start looking for ways to control our substance abuse family and friends, we all need help dealing with abuse, emotional as well as physical, from addicted parents and family.
The faster you accept that you can help yourself, and by that possibly have a positive effect on your wife by the absence of all the manipulations, yours as well as hers, the sooner you can decide what is best for yourself.
Don't give up on yourself until you really delve into this. It is the only way for us to move forward in our lives, and perhaps be able to help, instead of enable.
Since I am new I hope anything I may be stating a bit differently may help because of that.
We can't fix them. We can learn how not to enable them, and find some peace.
I have an AW and came here pretty much in the same shape you are now. At the end of my rope, and angry/confused/frustrated/helpless/hopeful/ hopeless all at the same time.
My AW does not want to stop and I decided that as much as I hated to, I had to split and find my own life. I gave that ultimatum, which she threatened under the influence all the time. And fully intended to split, sell it all, and that after 40 years of a pretty good marriage.
Everyone here said about the same things and I didn't get it. Compounding the issue in my mind was the fact that I am a recently recovered alcoholic myself sober a little over two years now.
You see I never approached the problem from a trying to make her stop, as I knew that would have failed miserably. Despite that and a background in co-dependence counseling, I was fully co-dependent which made her manipulations to continue drinking and bad behaviors make me feel somehow at fault.
They told me to try Alanon, which I knew was for family and friends of alcoholics. I did when I finally found my AW voluntarily working one on one with our marriage counselor on her anger issues. The counselor was surprised when I said her drinking was up to her, the behaviors against me were the only things that affected me, and those boundaries are now set in stone.
She still drinks but does not act out her anger issues with me at the moment. I have to be honest I enabled her from the start, until her anger turned on me as her alcoholism progressed.
I attended two Alanon meetings, the first angry and thinking they would tell me how to control her behaviors, since they were driving me crazy, but not to drink. That driving me crazy comment proved who was in control and pulling all my strings. Alanon us helping me to become unresponsive emotionally to the pain she tries to inflict, but it turns out I had a need to be in control. I am not there yet but I am learning. The first thing the folks at Alanon said was to do some work with them to help myself before taking actions that can't easily be reversed. I am glad I did.
We have a nice life again, but not perfect. I am no longer overreacting to her moods and when escalated I don't hold up my end of a fight, I leave and we take time out. I will not argue with her while drinking, and will discuss the issues the next morning as she only drinks today after 5, and usually only to slurring a bit, and before getting nasty at that point.
I don't know if she will ever decide to quit drinking herself. She does drink at home as when I quit and she offered to not drink in front of me, I wasn't going to cause a DUI or worse, her or another's death or maiming and told her to drink at home and in front of me.
I am happy and so is she but it is early in our work towards serenity for the most part again.
My second Alanon meeting, the one I went to for support and to learn some skills to not try to fix my wife, just me, started just before it opened by the lady next to me asking why I was there. I told her that I had an AW and needed to work on my coping skills. She brightened up and said I must have been in the rooms awhile since I already knew that. I told her no, this would be the first meeting I would actually be receptive to. But that I did a lot of reading and got a lot of support here on SR.
We all start looking for ways to control our substance abuse family and friends, we all need help dealing with abuse, emotional as well as physical, from addicted parents and family.
The faster you accept that you can help yourself, and by that possibly have a positive effect on your wife by the absence of all the manipulations, yours as well as hers, the sooner you can decide what is best for yourself.
Don't give up on yourself until you really delve into this. It is the only way for us to move forward in our lives, and perhaps be able to help, instead of enable.
Since I am new I hope anything I may be stating a bit differently may help because of that.
We can't fix them. We can learn how not to enable them, and find some peace.
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