Titanic

Is it okay for the A or even recovering A to have "secrets" with the children (under 19) that are kept from the non-A parent (excluding birthday or other presents)? How do you prevent this, if not? What do you do about this?

BlueSkiesAgain

I don't think secrets within a household are good. Sometimes there are things that parents know that kids shouldn't but kids should never be put into a position to "keep a secret" from a parent.

My kids know that there is nothing they say to me or to my husband that we won't tell each other. My sons have on occasion said don't tell Dad and I tell them right there that we don't keep secrets.

Personally, I would talk to the other parent and ask if the kids are being asked to keep secrets and then call a family meeting and discuss keeping secrets and why you as a family don't do that.

Florence

No. I just wrote this in another thread. Unless there is something endangering the family that must be "kept secret," secrets are bad.

The encouragement to keep a secret between parent-child from another parent is in my experience bad news. My ex used to take my son out of state in his visitation weekends and advise him not to tell me??? He used to feed him whatever he wanted and send him home to me hopped up on caffeine and sugar, and say it was their secret. It was a "secret" because it was bad for the child/ren and my ex didn't want to be called out on it. It was a secret because it wasn't okay.

I have asked my son to keep something "in the family," like medical information, and specified who knew what, and I have talked to him about having the freedom to keep some information under his hat if he wants to about his own friendships and crushes. But making a child your confidant or co-conspirator is ******* criminal parenting as far as I'm concerned.

Katiekate

Alcoholics love secrets, they like to divide and conquer.

lillamy

I have told my children from a very young age that any time an adult wants a child to keep a secret (minus Christmas and birthday presents), they need to tell me or a trusted adult at school. I've told them no mature adult needs to share their secrets with their child, and if they do, there's something wrong with them and the kids should keep their distance.

That was more to protect them from sexual abuse than anything else, but it's also worked well with their A father.

BlueSkies1

Hmmm...if you know there are secrets, then you must have some idea of what at least one of those secrets are. Can you share more?
I don't like to make blanket statements without having the pertinent info.

Titanic

Love this. Will use it. Thanks lillamy!

@MadeOfGlass: Exposing them to the A's use of drugs or alcohol (especially if claiming sobriety), exposing them to other actively using drug addicts or alcoholics, witnessing part of an OD episode, drinking then driving with them, offering the children drugs or alcohol, things like that ...

Florence

I don't know in what world this would be acceptable for a child, secrets or not.

Synfull Vyxun

my mother is always telling me 'don't tell you're step dad,' 'don't tell so n so' I find myself lying to the people I love and care about and then when they find out the truth, my mother denies it to the hills and I look bad to everyone then, I am so sick of it, it has made me stress and I am now sick, I try not to talk to anyone now except my cat, secrets are no good in any relationship. I was always told that white lie's are ok if they don't hurt anyone, but a little white lie, can erupt into a huge fairy tale.

lillamy

I should preface this with a warning: Heartbreaking ugliness to follow!

I have a dear friend who was also in an alcoholic marriage and left. Her ex had shared custody. She saw her kids go downhill rapidly, as did her ex. So the custody situation drifted off to where he'd see them the occasional weekend and nothing else.

The older girl said everything was always fine at dad's house. If the younger started saying something, the older sister would shut her up. I was babysitting when the younger told me since their dad couldn't drive them anymore, he'd send the kids to the grocery store for him. Walking three miles, crossing several roads with heavy traffic. They were 7 and 11. And "Dad told us not to tell Mom because then Mom would be mad at us."

The mom started slowly pulling things out of them. Assuring them she would not be mad at them. The older girl kept protecting her father. Until the point where she broke down and said, "it's really OK at Dad's house, mostly, except that since he broke up with his girlfriend, he insists that I sleep in his bed with him and I really don't like what he does to me."

Mom has full custody now, and moved to another state. The girl who was fiercely protective of the father who was sexually abusing her? She's in high school. And she's not doing so well. In fact, her mom is looking at long-term inpatient treatment for her in a state clear across the country, because the poor girl can't function.

So that's where I get the "HELL NO, NO SECRETS!" from.

Cyranoak

It is Machiavellian at worst and manipulative at best. Neither are OK, ever, especially when the children are being used as the tool/weapon.

This is definitely NOT OK and is, in my opinion, a form of child abuse.

Cyranoak

choublak

So, your A is telling "secrets" to your kids, who are then coming to you and telling you about it?

No, that is absolutely not okay.

4MyBoys

Oh lillamy that is heart breaking!

I try to talk, I mean really talk to my kids daily. It is so easy as a single mom, to get to the end of the day and realize that all you did is tell the kids what to do and rush to get the day to day issues completed. If I did not do this I would not know that my STBXAH has been drinking beer during the kids visits even with a non drinking court order. He is the king of "Don't tell you Mom." It is easier said than done some days but it has to be a priority.

Titanic

Are you referring to the keeping of the secrets or the discovery of the secrets?

P.S. When one adopts the lillamy rule "NO SECRETS (except birthday, parent's days and holiday presents)," they aren't considered "secret" any longer.

Kiana

I believe it's not ok and that requesting it of children is abuse. Parents have the right to know whatever our young children know for their own sound development and protection to keep them safe from being exploited by manipulative others. It's insidious and creates unbelievable guilt within a child and alienates them from the other parent.

My kids were taught to immediately tell if they were ever asked to keep a secret or if anything ever made them feel uncomfortable.

An xH told my DD (her stepdad) to keep a secret from me because he "didn't want your mom to get made at YOU".....so she told me as soon as she walked in the door because she remembered always being taught to tell right away. After that, I divorced him right away, too.

In the case of it happening with shared custody or the other parent having visitation rights, it might take a judge intervening on behalf of the child to establish only supervised visits, like it usually does with every other type of child abuse.

choublak

Both. I'm assuming your A tells the kids "secrets", which is wrong, and then the kids tell you about it, which shows that the kids KNOW that something isn't quite right.

Titanic

Yes. And sometimes the child has to be asked by the child psych or non-A parent.