MyTimeNow

Robby Robot said:

Oh yeah? you do?
Why is that?


Sorry I really didn't want to discuss this on Fallows thread, especially whilst things are so raw for him and I didn't want my reply to be in anyway indicative of him.

With regards to the tough love option, yes sometimes I do need it. I am very aware that I can be a huge wallower, I can bathe in my own self pity about various things that are long gone, way way in the past, but I still use them as an excuse. I've thought the world has owed me something for years (not sure what?!) And I've sat on my backside full of resentments and self pity and each year that has gone by where I have done little to help myself except allow my resentments to grow stronger is another year gone by that I suppose has brought a little more - I don't know the word - self loathing is too strong... can't think right now what I feel would be an appropriate term.

Either ways it's another year wasted with negativity, and not a lot done by myself on the productive side to change things.

Just recognising that is quite a new thing for me so thanks for pushing me on it

justhadenough

It's an interesting concept. It works for some and not others.For me, I feel even more self pity but then step back and think. Sometimes I need harsh words to 'drum some sense into me' as my mother would say

One word that jumped out at me on your post is 'resentments' this came up on another thread a few weeks ago./sincethen, and having given it thought I realize that many of my negative thoughts-sadness/anger/hate/fear/envy are all resentments andbyallowing them in it makes me feel more of the same and round and round we go. Someone said learn to let them go-I couldn't do this till I realized what they actually were. I'm practicing but it's a work in progress!xx

MyTimeNow

Oh indeed I don't think tough love is the only answer, far from it in fact. It's very much a time and a place thing I think. I could take and use it for myself with regards to past issues, but ... not sure how to say this... probably wouldn't use it with somebody when things are so recent and raw.

I'm to be 37 soon, one thing I do not want to be is a 40 year old alcoholic clinging on to and drowning in past resentments. I need to kick myself up the bum and I need to do it now. I've had enough counselling, CBT, pyschotherapy etc to have the tools to deal with these issues, but with all things - you have to put a little work in yourself. Which I have chosen not to do, or not found a way to do it. The post in question rings true for me with regards to my situation and I could use it. Whether it's right for somebody else is in another circumstance is up to them.

I completely understand what you said about realising what they were. I don't think I ever took much time out to understand that, thought it was just something ingrained in me, that was me, this is what it is, there is no other alternative. I guess we are all works in progress xx

Phew and I was going to be in bed at 8 lol. 9 it is then!

justhadenough

ha me too! watching x factor!!x

MyTimeNow

Tele off here! Think my 3 hour marathon Monday night was enough for the week. I'm playing scrabble on Facebook - then I'm definitely going to bed! May have spent to much time in it these last 2 days... Gotta love these rocking sober Saturday nights

RobbyRobot

Yeah, you made the right call. Starting another thread is way cool. Thanks.

You know, I've been professionally tough loved, by a clinical psychologist using Gestalt therapy, and fellow recovered street guys, and I'm not against it on principal, however, i don't think it works on-line. I've also been tough-talked by those who love me, and I gotta tell you, it dosen't work so well for me if I know the person as a friend or as family. I for sure fight back, and in my experience, I got alot of pain n shame to draw on, and i usually ended up hurting very deeply those who were trying to tough love me outta my whatever.

Self-pity was no stranger, and no friend of mine, either, back whenever. Growing up as a crippled kid in poverty on the East Side of Ottawa in the 60's kinda turned my insides every color of the rainbow. By the time I turned to being a teenager in the early '70's, my heart and mind were already numb to whatever anybody wanted to dish-out to me. I also had a street way about me that didn't lend to my being somebody you would ideally like to hang with, lol. I pretty well got on with my business of drinking and drugging from 12 to 18 before I slowed down enough to take a look around and see what the hell was really going on, you know? I didn't care much about whatever except beting up on myself, and so of course causing damage for others who may or may not have cared for me. I finally quit forever (1981) at age 24, and so here I am, going strong, and feeling the love.

Did tough love help me? I'll say this... the way I fought back against tough love, the way I would eventually blind-side attack my "helper" (attacker) after working on their weak-side, spoke volumes about how I was figuring things out. I was one messed up dude, no lies.

Did tough love help me heal?
No, I don't think so. I think some good strong friendships did more for me than any tough love scene ever did.

Does tough love work?
Yeah, it does for those who finally break and surrender to themselves, pushed along by whomever. When i got (get) pushed, I push right back much to fast for tough love to get past my defensive cracks in my armor. it just ends up being a street fight, with words and emotions as weapons. Difficult for me to justify the carnage as healthy therapy.

What did I do with all that self-pity?
Yeah, I sucked it up, swallowed it, gritted my teeth, and dug past it all to find the roots of my anger and self-destructiveness. My self-pity was like a carnival clown selling tickets to the day's main event under the Big Top. My self-pity was a sham that allowed me to justify the woes of my life against the wonderfulness of others. I was the loser, and they were the winners, was what my self-pity wanted me to sign on to, and every time I did, I would slip yet another cog deep into the morass of my alcoholism. Hero's don't drink themselves to death, but self-pitying fools do, and thaty was the plan, and so the self-pity card simply became another way to cheat at life. Eventually, I didn't even have the decency to care about how far down was down.

Since fueling the self-pity was anger and shame, working on solving my anger problems was the real solution. Being recognised for my insides over and above my exterior defenses won my confidence and trust, and I began to heal. In the healing, self-pity became just another thing to throw away, same as whatever else was required to go... like arrogance, and pride, and selfishness, and dishonesty... to name a few.

Where is this going?

I don't like to see tough love on-line. So many things can go wrong, and the person being tough loved can get things so warped that all they do is instinctively fight or flight...

That didn't happen in the thread, so way cool, yeah!

Hey, thanks for posting back to me, MyTimeNow. I respect your experiences, and I hope things continue to heal up for you. I completely agree that sitting around after therapy, and help, and whatever is not a good way to go. I do hope though that you don't whack yourself so hard that you lose the plot, and forget that the end game here is to love ourselves outta whatever addiction mess we found ourselves in when we quit. We all have enough resentments to last a lifetime already, yeah?

I now know for sure, pissing myself off to the point of beating on myself only makes me into a beatup pissed off guy, and nobody wants that, lol.

Thanks again. Stay cool.

MyTimeNow

Wow. Good morning Robby

That was some read, and a lot of it makes sense to me.

You know what? I'm going to let that sink in and digest and then reply, as anybody that has encountered me on a morning, knows I need more tea...

Please be rest assured though that I'm not practicing self flagellation here, or even just beating myself up, I'm erm... what am I doing? Not sure.

I have questions for you, I shall be back later!

And a huge thank you, thought provoking stuff

Mark75

Yea, I have found myself in the middle of that train wreck at least a couple of times... And I, someone who has some ambivalence about this, find that it becomes my default position when... I don't really know what to say... But I really want to say something... to try and "help" whomever I have deemed needs it, LOL...

I have learned to sit on my hands more often these days... but, it's progress, not perfection.

A well intentioned and appropriate question often works much better, so that the person may consider their own part in whatever crisis of... self pity, anger, grief... may be on the table... and get there by themselves.

Great post, as usual, Robby!

MyTimeNow

Well... looking back at my last post and the amount of time it has taken me to reply, anybody would think I am about to come out with a stonker of a post!

I'm not.

I went over to my mum's, fell asleep on her sofa after dinner, came home put kids to bed and am just winding down myself.

Odd timing, but my mum gave me some sad news today about my brother whom I love dearly, but have sometimes resented (he knows this, I know this and over the years we have done our best to work it out) that kind of changes my outlook on how I view myself within our family, how I have viewed myself within our family in complete self pity mode. I can't explain it right now, but it's not life or death, nothing health wise, nothing serious to anybody else - just sad all the same.

I was going to ask some questions about healing and learning to self love instead of self harm, but tbh I'm shattered and that's all a bit deep for me this evening.

I very much agree with this though, even if my previous posts scream otherwise.

That's because I know what I want to hear when I want to hear it (if that makes sense? How picky!) Hence printing out a post and reading it when I choose. Give tough love at the wrong time and it is very likely to be reciprocated with - online - me disappearing. At home - me dishing out on the defense.

I don't want it to be all hearts and flowers either though (sheesh this woman is never happy I hear you cry!) I don't know. I'm learning, and I think it comes down to what Mark says - questions and perhaps a tiny push so I can properly think things over that I may well not have done and come up with some different solutions.

Confused? Me too!

I'm a bit too tired to think, my cold has moved to my ears (?) and I'm being distracted by Darth Vader breathing in my head.

Still giving things a lot of thought though, and I'll no doubt come up with something else tomorrow...