Standing my ground- need encouragement
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 391
Standing my ground- need encouragement
I'm in negotiations with my STBAXH making the temporary protection order permanent. I'm having a tough time standing my ground. My fears of his reactions are clearly clouding my judgement. I'm falling back into believing that he will get into recovery just because I know that he loves his boys. All it has taken is for him (not directly but through our attorneys) to ask for what he wants and I feel shaky.
I need some strength right now. I think I'm still in rescue mode. Not wanting him to feel bad because he misses his boys.
His actions and drunken rages put us on this course. I need to keep telling myself that.
He wants equal parental rights through this order (we're in the process of a divorce too, so these things will be ultimately decided through that).
He wants me to remove them as plaintiffs on the order. I don't think I want to concede that. There will be opporunity during the divorce to work these things out for good.
He threatened to kill me and acted like an animal in front of our children!!!!!
I guess I just need to get some encouragement that being tough is the right thing to do right now.
HELP!!!!!!
MamaKit
I need some strength right now. I think I'm still in rescue mode. Not wanting him to feel bad because he misses his boys.
His actions and drunken rages put us on this course. I need to keep telling myself that.
He wants equal parental rights through this order (we're in the process of a divorce too, so these things will be ultimately decided through that).
He wants me to remove them as plaintiffs on the order. I don't think I want to concede that. There will be opporunity during the divorce to work these things out for good.
He threatened to kill me and acted like an animal in front of our children!!!!!
I guess I just need to get some encouragement that being tough is the right thing to do right now.
HELP!!!!!!
MamaKit
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,295
mamakit,
I don't know all the details, but really, I don't need to, what you have posted above is enough.
Let him know that the order stands as is. Should he in the future show through time that he is not a threat to you, nor an alcoholic that will neglect or abuse your children, then at that time you will agree to change the order.
The thing he doesn't understand is that he has to SHOW, through SIGNIFICANT time, that he is no longer a raging lunatic.
This is a boundary, a healthy one.
He has to prove himself, over time, and nothing will make you change that order except proving himself through a significant time period. How long should that be? I don't know, I would ask a child psychologist or addition counselor for their recommendation.
Good behavior will be rewarded. Impatience will not.
I don't know all the details, but really, I don't need to, what you have posted above is enough.
Let him know that the order stands as is. Should he in the future show through time that he is not a threat to you, nor an alcoholic that will neglect or abuse your children, then at that time you will agree to change the order.
The thing he doesn't understand is that he has to SHOW, through SIGNIFICANT time, that he is no longer a raging lunatic.
This is a boundary, a healthy one.
He has to prove himself, over time, and nothing will make you change that order except proving himself through a significant time period. How long should that be? I don't know, I would ask a child psychologist or addition counselor for their recommendation.
Good behavior will be rewarded. Impatience will not.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,452
Mamakit, DON'T CONCEDE ANYTHING.
NOTHING AT ALL.
Let your lawyer handle this. Save any reasonable concessions you might eventually make for later in the negotiation process, maybe wait until the divorce negotiations.
As my psychiatrist tells me, this is war, and he is the enemy.
He tried to kill you. He did it in front of your sons. He is still drinking and raging. That is huge.
This is a classic negotiation move. He asks for everything. You give him nothing. He asks for most things. You give him nothing. He asks for some things. You give him nothing. He asks for a little. You give him nothing. He begs for the least. You give him what is reasonable, and you define reasonable to mean safe and secure for your boys. Your terms.
Get all the support you need line up - a child psychiatrist, Social Services, whatever you can find.
"No" is a very simple word.
It stands on its own.
I suggest that using it often, by itself, is very powerful in a situation like this where he will cause damage to your boys if he gets what he wants.
In a negotiation, someone is always buying, and someone is always selling. He's selling now. You don't have to buy anything. Deflation is happening, and let it happen to his demands.
I am finding that when we have been compromised by abuse, we find it very hard to not capitulate emotionally because that's what our alcoholic partners have trained us to do. This kind of negotiation is where the rubber hits the road, step by step, and you are free, are emboldened, are required for the safety of your children to do what is best for you and your boys.
We're all here for you. This works.
BothSidesNow
NOTHING AT ALL.
Let your lawyer handle this. Save any reasonable concessions you might eventually make for later in the negotiation process, maybe wait until the divorce negotiations.
As my psychiatrist tells me, this is war, and he is the enemy.
He tried to kill you. He did it in front of your sons. He is still drinking and raging. That is huge.
This is a classic negotiation move. He asks for everything. You give him nothing. He asks for most things. You give him nothing. He asks for some things. You give him nothing. He asks for a little. You give him nothing. He begs for the least. You give him what is reasonable, and you define reasonable to mean safe and secure for your boys. Your terms.
Get all the support you need line up - a child psychiatrist, Social Services, whatever you can find.
"No" is a very simple word.
It stands on its own.
I suggest that using it often, by itself, is very powerful in a situation like this where he will cause damage to your boys if he gets what he wants.
In a negotiation, someone is always buying, and someone is always selling. He's selling now. You don't have to buy anything. Deflation is happening, and let it happen to his demands.
I am finding that when we have been compromised by abuse, we find it very hard to not capitulate emotionally because that's what our alcoholic partners have trained us to do. This kind of negotiation is where the rubber hits the road, step by step, and you are free, are emboldened, are required for the safety of your children to do what is best for you and your boys.
We're all here for you. This works.
BothSidesNow
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 230
Mamakit,
You are a strong woman. I agree with everyone else thus far.
He is feeding you lies, but you can see it now. PDon't concede a thing. Let him prove it to you with his actions. You can always remove some of the conditions later IF the situation improves.
I know the anxiety that you are feeling. I know that I will be in this very situation within weeks.
You are smart. You are strong. And you are capable. Don't give in to his words.
Sending you strength and good vibes.
You are a strong woman. I agree with everyone else thus far.
He is feeding you lies, but you can see it now. PDon't concede a thing. Let him prove it to you with his actions. You can always remove some of the conditions later IF the situation improves.
I know the anxiety that you are feeling. I know that I will be in this very situation within weeks.
You are smart. You are strong. And you are capable. Don't give in to his words.
Sending you strength and good vibes.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: rural Germany
Posts: 311
Originally Posted by MamaKit 
I'm falling back into believing that he will get into recovery just because I know that he loves his boys.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
As an ACOA I used to beg my mother to protect from my abusive alcoholic father. She never did.
I commend you for protecting your boys and you will not regret it and someday they will understand. I married someone who developed addiction (surprise, surprise) and when I divorce I always, always made sure my kids were safe and protected.
Having a high degree of safeguards (supervised visitation, drug and alcohol screenings etc) to begin with is highly recommended. If he were to establish that he had completed at least of year of authentic recovery and had done well in the preceeding year parenting he could have the court entertain a motion to increase his parenting time or more unsupervised time.
If you were certain he was ready you could agree to a stipulated change that the judge would sign without need of a hearing.
Time reveals all... keep it highly controlled and safe until he PROVES over a significant period of time he is responsible and sober enough to warrant any changes.
I commend you for protecting your boys and you will not regret it and someday they will understand. I married someone who developed addiction (surprise, surprise) and when I divorce I always, always made sure my kids were safe and protected.
Having a high degree of safeguards (supervised visitation, drug and alcohol screenings etc) to begin with is highly recommended. If he were to establish that he had completed at least of year of authentic recovery and had done well in the preceeding year parenting he could have the court entertain a motion to increase his parenting time or more unsupervised time.
If you were certain he was ready you could agree to a stipulated change that the judge would sign without need of a hearing.
Time reveals all... keep it highly controlled and safe until he PROVES over a significant period of time he is responsible and sober enough to warrant any changes.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 391
Thank you all!
I knew that I could count on you. And you are all so right. I feel bolstered and supported. I've written down my responses for when my attorney calls back. I am conceding to one thing. That he may contact me to arrange future visits so that we don't have to go through attorneys (unless necessary). Right now he is prohibited from contacting me in any way. That communcation will be by email only. I will retain sole custody and responsibility - so, if the visits are not ok on my terms, they don't happen.
I can attest to your quote below BSN. I am proof of this for sure. But I don't have to fall victim to this - I can override this training by my alcoholic and do what is right.
I am finding that when we have been compromised by abuse, we find it very hard to not capitulate emotionally because that's what our alcoholic partners have trained us to do. This kind of negotiation is where the rubber hits the road, step by step, and you are free, are emboldened, are required for the safety of your children to do what is best for you and your boys.
We're all here for you. This works.
BothSidesNow My heart is full with appreciation and love for you all!
Thankyou Thankyou Thankyou
MamaKit
I knew that I could count on you. And you are all so right. I feel bolstered and supported. I've written down my responses for when my attorney calls back. I am conceding to one thing. That he may contact me to arrange future visits so that we don't have to go through attorneys (unless necessary). Right now he is prohibited from contacting me in any way. That communcation will be by email only. I will retain sole custody and responsibility - so, if the visits are not ok on my terms, they don't happen.
I can attest to your quote below BSN. I am proof of this for sure. But I don't have to fall victim to this - I can override this training by my alcoholic and do what is right.
Originally Posted by BothSidesNow
I am finding that when we have been compromised by abuse, we find it very hard to not capitulate emotionally because that's what our alcoholic partners have trained us to do. This kind of negotiation is where the rubber hits the road, step by step, and you are free, are emboldened, are required for the safety of your children to do what is best for you and your boys.
We're all here for you. This works.
BothSidesNow
Thankyou Thankyou Thankyou
MamaKit
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
He threatened to kill me and acted like an animal in front of our children!!!!!
The only thing I can tell you is that I agreed to basically what your ex is asking for, and I've regretted it ever since. It has put my children in situations no child should have to be in.
In retrospect, I worried more about my AXH, who is an adult, than about the children I should have been protecting. My oldest has told me as much -- and forgiven me for it, realizing I did what I could under the circumstances -- but it's never quite going to go away, the guilt.
Remember, courage isn't about not being afraid. Courage is about being afraid and doing what you know you have to do anyway.
My emotional baggage
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 285
MamaKit, I would hug you if I could! I am in the same position right now. I think maybe just a couple steps further. My best advice is ask for more than you want now and you can back down later. Stay Strong! It is so hard, I totally understand. He had me sobbing at mediation. Try using this, this is what I tell myself. I untimately left because I did not want to have my boys growing up seeing that as the model for how to treat their wives. I did not want them to think that this is what family is like. Now I remind myself that if I waiver and and don't continue to be strong for them, than I am the bad parent. It is the hardest thing I have ever done.
Remember to keep any contact you have in email or text so you have a copy of it later. This has helped me more than anything in the courts. I never speak to him on the phone anymore. It clears up any lying they try to do. You want to most control in the beginning because I am at the stage now where he was a great Dad with his visits for a while but then he was unable to keep up the act and the boys just told me twice this week that Daddy drinks Swishy (mouthwash) in the car. I said to cover the smoke smell. No to cover the beer smell. Needless to say they are meeting with their attorney tomorrow. He has a no drinking clause in temporary custody.
You can do it! I believe in you and your kids believe in you! Find you voice and make sure everyone hears you. I have felt like I was tattling when I tell the councelor or kids attorney on my husband but I realize this may be the one shot I have to set the record straight about what has been going on.
4MyBoys
Remember to keep any contact you have in email or text so you have a copy of it later. This has helped me more than anything in the courts. I never speak to him on the phone anymore. It clears up any lying they try to do. You want to most control in the beginning because I am at the stage now where he was a great Dad with his visits for a while but then he was unable to keep up the act and the boys just told me twice this week that Daddy drinks Swishy (mouthwash) in the car. I said to cover the smoke smell. No to cover the beer smell. Needless to say they are meeting with their attorney tomorrow. He has a no drinking clause in temporary custody.
You can do it! I believe in you and your kids believe in you! Find you voice and make sure everyone hears you. I have felt like I was tattling when I tell the councelor or kids attorney on my husband but I realize this may be the one shot I have to set the record straight about what has been going on.
4MyBoys
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 44
Mamakit, someone on this forum shared this quote and I've found it empowering and sometimes comforting. It's similar to Lillamy's point.
"Courage is not the absence of fear. It is the judgement that something else is more important than fear."
Take care
SG
x
"Courage is not the absence of fear. It is the judgement that something else is more important than fear."
Take care
SG
x
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 391
4myboys,
Thank you. It helps so much to hear from people who know. I am feeling stronger thanks to you and others. I do need to show my boys what is unacceptable. I know I am doing the right thing. But it is so hard.
He is not ok with sole custody. So no agreement yet. Looks like court tomorrow.
As noted above, if he wants a good relationship with his boys....he will do the work and show us.
I'm so grateful for the wisdom and experience here.
hugs,
MamaKit
Thank you. It helps so much to hear from people who know. I am feeling stronger thanks to you and others. I do need to show my boys what is unacceptable. I know I am doing the right thing. But it is so hard.
He is not ok with sole custody. So no agreement yet. Looks like court tomorrow.
As noted above, if he wants a good relationship with his boys....he will do the work and show us.
I'm so grateful for the wisdom and experience here.
hugs,
MamaKit
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
