CentralOhioDad

This was posted by English Garden as a reply to another poster, and I've seen this message numerous times before:

You must feel terribly lonely, grunter, deeply hurt, angry, confused, and desperate.

Alcoholism is the one disease in which our normal instinct to nurture and comfort our diseased loved one produces the exact opposite effect that such care should evoke: our nurturing and comforting do not help our loved one find health again but instead keeps our loved one very sick. You are helping your wife stay very sick.

It is not your fault she drinks. It is not your fault she abandons you and your children. It is not your fault you haven't been able to stop her from drinking. And it isn't your fault you have been enabling her. Without knowledge about addiction, all of us enable for a long time.

Enabling is actually easier on us than taking the harder, but correct, actions. When we enable we don't have to fear divorce or breaking up the family. When we enable we don't have to worry about being alone in the world. When we enable we don't have to worry about what others will think when they hear about our family having problems. When we enable we don't have to risk losing someone we just can't imagine living without.

Enabling, we unconsciously believe, keeps the status quo. We will just keep cleaning up the alcoholic's messes, and doing the alcoholic's share of the adult responsibilities, and we will keep trying to hit on just the right words to convince the alcoholic to get sober, and if we keep doing that, then we get to keep the life structure we have built and are unwilling to let go. The family stays together, the house doesn't get emptied out and put on the market, we still get to be respected by our friends and neighbors, and the world thinks we're normal. By force of will and gritting our teeth, by God we will hold this family together, we think.

All the while, grunter, underneath, addiction is slowly destroying everybody. The alcoholic keeps drinking, flooding the tissues, organs, brain and muscles with poison that will produce catastrophic consequences. The children quietly adjust to the feeling of dread and sadness in the house and they lose the ability to truly be themselves but instead wear masks so as not to upset anyone. And you, grunter, you are probably becoming more and more depressed and devitalized, remote, and so painfully lonely, every day.

You are an adult man with a car and you can get yourself to ONE Al-Anon meeting. You can take responsibility for the sickness eating away at your family and your life and you can get to ONE meeting. At that meeting you can get all the free materials which will tell you exactly the right and the wrong ways to deal with an alcoholic. Read them. And start changing your ACTIONS even if your thinking needs time to catch up. Alcoholics listen to what their spouses DO, grunter, not to what their spouses say. And you must DO things differently or there is no hope.

We are glad you found SR. Things can change for the better for you. But first you have to change.

The last line is my sticking point: how do I need to change? Where do I start? How do I identify what points I need to change about me and go about doing it?

I've been on this Forum now for several months, have learned much, and have gootten awesome support, and sometimes very blunt responses - all of which I appreciate. I try to take a bit from everyone and learn, but this "change" piece is where I'm stuck.

I want to become a better person, I want to love more, worry less, be the best damn father I can be for my 2.5 year-old, be a better friend, better husband, less judgmental, less codie, put the past in the past - forgetting wrong choices/trying to forgive myself, and somehow deal with my Wife who is supposedly not an A and can handle all her PTSD issues and ACoA issues on her own - which I know she can't.

So, EG, and whoever else has input - what can I do for me (taking into account a full-time job and numerous responsibilities at home) and get back on track to some peace serenity, and hope for the future? I feel very lost. I'm the guy, I'm supposed to keep the family dynamic moving efficiently and smoothly -and it just ain't happening right now.

And, BTW EG, that post hit the nail on the head in so many ways for me.

BlueSkies1

This is a difficult question because none of us really know you extremely well. I ask myself this question though--and I come up with these types of answers--

There are ways that I am not honest with myself. To find my truth, I have to face anything that I am avoiding or neglecting. This could be anything from relationships to finances. How do you fall short of what your own expectations for yourself are?
If you have all your ducks in a row, and there is nothing you are neglecting or avoiding, ie, dysfunction within yourself, then what next?
Do an assessment of your personality. Even ask others if you dare....where do you need work? For example, some people have all their ducks in a row, but they are control freaks, so this has to be dealt with, because even though everything is right with the mortgage and the laundry, there is imbalance.
I suppose that's a place to start. Where in your life (besides your A) is there imbalance?
Let's say that you are balanced, no dysfunction within yourself. Only problem you can't solve is the A.
If that's true, then I think the next thing is to chase a dream, an accomplishment. You still have personal goals, married to an A or divorcing one, I can't remember which you are.
And finally, you can work on any dysfunction within yourself or imbalance in your life and simultaneously work on goals, dreams, etc.
A quick checklist for balance to me seems to be--Finances, friends, family, and health.
There's always room for improvement!

Tuffgirl

This line above would be a great place to start that change. Instead of declaring with certainty that she can't, how about deciding it is not your business if she can or can't? I know that sounds harsh, but do we really have a right to make such sweeping declarations about other people?

Try this instead:

I have no control over the alcoholic (or whatever label she prefers) in my life and how she chooses to live hers.

I do have control over how I choose to live my life, and it is up to me to determine what it will (and won't) look like from now on.

m1k3

I agree with Tuffgirl, giving up the illusion of control was the first big step in my recovery. I am powerless over other people, places and things. I have no control over whether my wife drinks or doesn't. I have no control of whether she abuses pills or doesn't, I have not control over whether she works a recovery or doesn't.

It is her life to live, her choices to make and to be honest it is none of my business.

What I do have control over is how I choose to respond to all the people and events happening outside my head and all the noise, confusion, thoughts and emotions happening inside my head. That's it.

A tool that has worked really well for me is mindfulness. There are a ton of books out there as well as articles on the web if you google mindfulness. It also is used in Al-Anon as a way of working your recovery even it isn't refered to it as mindfulness. It would called living in the present or even "stinkin thinkin".

Your friend,

BobbyJ

I want to become a better person
I want to love more worry less, be the best damn father I can be for my 2.5 year-old, be a better friend, better husband, less judgmental, less codie, put the past in the past - forgetting wrong choices/trying to forgive myself, and somehow deal with my Wife who is supposedly not an A and can handle all her PTSD issues and ACoA issues on her own

That sound's like alot to me. HA! I joke, because I had/have a list just like that too!
One of the slogan's is: One Day At A Time
I know when I first started, I wanted my list complete...TODAY!

As you continue to work on yourself - The list will start having
little smiley face's beside the #'s

For me, I had to ask God to help me with my messed up list
My heart was tender, My mind was confussed and my head hurt
and I was beyond tired trying to do all of things by myself
I gave up trying to be "super-woman"

One of the best thing's that I can make myself say & believe is:
It is just: One day at a time
but like today
It's just One MINUTE at a time....and that's okay

Have you ever seen a new bridge built in less 30 days?..

Katiekate

It will come, it takes time. I was a hard wired co dependent, still am , but I have learned intellectually the rules of engagement, I can see now the things that make me sick, I'm learning to step back, think before I act, I have learned to look at my emotions in a different way.

But most importantly I get to make mistakes, I get to have compassion for myself, I get to say no and not feel guilty about it. I get to like myself.

m1k3

I'm glad BobbyJ quoted this part of your original post. What jumped out at me was I want to improve to be a better person for other people. Better father, husband, friend, dealer with someone else's issues.

What really helped me was when someone here told me to be selfish about my recovery. It was mine and it was for me, no one else. A good side effect has been my interpersonal relationships have improved a huge amount but that was not my focus.

Your friend,

lillamy

Yes. This. This is, for me, the big kahuna.
And I'm still working on it.

• Giving up the illusion of control.
• Defining where I end and other people start (that is, not taking on their emotions).
• Starting to find what I want, what I like, where I want to go again.

Learning to detach from the A is one of the biggest lessons of my life, and I'm so much happier as I've learned to apply it to other areas of my life. Detachment, for me, is interwoven with giving up control.

My focus has not been "what did I do wrong that enabled the A to continue drinking?" because he's out of my life and I really don't care. My focus has been "what behaviors did I have or develop that made my life more difficult in that marriage, and that I'm likely to repeat in my new relationship if I don't manage to get rid of them?"

itsmylifenow

Change begins with awareness. Then continues with action.

After a month of seriously looking at everything I could from my past and what was affecting me, I told my therapist it felt like my head had been opened, all my brains had been removed and were sitting on the table.

That's the awareness.

Now, the trick is figuring out how to get those brain pieces back in, different than before, and make myself feel whole again.

It's a process that I think happens over time. You could say, okay, I'm going to work on my control issues this month; fix it and put the piece back.

But, it doesn't work that simply because so much of one piece is intertwined with another piece.

So, I make a conscious effort to be aware of those situations I need to work on. And, when they come up, I then take the action to help with changing it. Sometimes, I still do the same thing or a modified version of what I was doing. And, that's okay. I try not to beat myself up over it. I realize maybe that one part is a little harder than some of the others and is going to require a little more attention the next time.

And, I know that although I don't feel like I'm exactly where I want to be, I know I have moved forward. Even if it's moment to moment baby steps.

You have found your awareness of all you'd like to be. Take it day by day and ask your HP for whatever you need.

EnglishGarden

It is an incremental series of steps, COD.

Does she drink to passing out at night? Where does she leave the bottle? LEAVE IT THERE.

Does she ever pass out on the couch fully clothed? LEAVE HER THERE.

Does she ever get drunk before an event you planned to go to together and you cancel because she's wasted? GO ANYWAY.

Is she ever drunk on the phone and someone asks you why she sounded so weird. TELL THEM.

Has she ever put the child in the car and driven drunk? FILE FOR A DIVORCE.

Do not clean up, cover up, or make up for ANY CONSEQUENCE CREATED BY HER DRINKING.

If you practice this painful but necessary program of genuine change (as opposed to fantasy change like trying to communicate and negotiate with an active alcoholic), OVER TIME (I am speaking up to a year), SOMETHING will have happened: either she hits a bottom so hard she begs for rehab. Or you realize that her commitment to alcohol has become the controlling center of your family's existence and you decide you will not put up with it for one more minute. You'll get a sharp lawyer and a social worker and you will get your child away from the madness.

dandylion

Dear CentralOhioDad, I hear what you are saying--I Think. LOL. It is such a GENERAL statement to say---"You need to change", because each person is such an individual that the SPECIFIC changes need to be tailored to that person and his situation. Since we do not know you extremely well, it is hard to list specifics without making an enormous amount of assumptions about you.

Perhaps you could help us (to help you) by letting us know what areas you have already started to do differently? What have you already started to think differently about, or changed your previous views about? What have you learned about the nature of alcoholism? Have you sought the help of anyone---like a therapist or counselor (personal)? What materials or books have you read (in additional to this board)?
How do you feel about remaining in the marriage?

These are just examples of where you may start to make a list. I am thinking that you need a starting place--since we don't know these things about you, yet. Also, putting these things down on paper can help you to get a better handle.

This is just an idea of mine. I do think it is progress that you are asking how to change. Many people are not at that place, yet. They say "Why do I need to change"?

See, you have already made progress!!!
What do you think?

Dandylion

Learn2Live

The change you speak of is a wonderful, brilliant, exciting journey! I began mine about 15 years ago. It started with me going to Al-Anon and learning the basic principles of the program, including learning how to look at oneself with courage. Slowly, day by day. As you listen, you learn about yourself.

As I try to relate with other people, in all areas of my life, I am open to hearing and learning about myself, including my strengths and my weaknesses. I listen to others speak about themselves qnd their own issues and problems and I ask myself if I am similar or not. I examine where things go wrong when I try to relate to others, and then I seek out information on how to change that thing about myself.

I have read more self-help books than would fill a library! LOL

Be open. When you find yourself angry or defensive by something someone has said or done, get quiet with yourself and examine where that anger or defensiveness is coming from. These two things are huge clues.

Take it easy. Take it slow. Ask your best and most trusted friends and family to tell you about yourself, what you're like, where you're difficult. Feel the pain of realization and allow it to motivate you to change.

Learn2Live

PS. Regarding people whonare brutal, I will tell you what my mom taught me. When a person takes the time to tell you about you, to point something out to you, even when it feels brutal, it means they CARE abou lt you. Because people who do not care say nothing at all. Always remember that

EnglishGarden

COD, I circled back to this thread tonight to follow up and to read the wise words of others as well, and as I re-read your most sincere, gut-honest words, I realized that the question you had asked of me and of others was about your spiritual life. Not about "how do I change my actions in order to effect change in my marriage to an alcoholic and have some hope she will get sober?" But you were really asking about, I think, what some would call our inner divinity, what Carl Jung called the Self, and what AA calls a higher power, that part of us which is holy and intuitive and reaches for goodness. Abraham Lincoln called it "the better angels of our nature."

So I'm sorry my reply was so full of DO THIS and NOT THAT. That sort of advice is, of course, really necessary when family members must learn not to contribute to their loved one's progression toward self-destruction. (It is that which I was trying to convey to grunter. To do different actions because, for an alcoholic, what we say has no effect). However, your honest plea for feedback was not about that.

When AA was being organized in the 1930's it was very much influenced by the frank admission by Carl Jung, one of the most renowned psychiatrists in the world, and by the consensus of the medical community of the world at large, that alcoholism was a hopeless condition. Untreatable and ultimately fatal to the individual.

It became clear to Carl Jung in his work with alcoholics that the only possible hope for a person so possessed by an obsession that person could not control--the obsession to drink even against one's will--was to be found in a spiritual solution. And finding that spiritual solution, said Jung, would require "ego deflation at depth." This, for an alcoholic, is a bottom. Not one more mess. Not one more crisis. But the bottom.

And we have found here among us, and I have witnessed in Al-Anon meetings, stories of individuals who, because of the most severe kind of emotional pain and--more specific to life with an alcoholic or an addict--the most severe kind of emotional shock from being touched by the terrible darkness that is at the core of addiction--we, too, many of us here, experienced our moment of "ego deflation at depth." A bottom.

We could not go on. We could not go on as we had, in our marriages or our relationships with the alcoholic or addict. We cracked wide open. And we had to change.

And what we did, those of us who went to Al-Anon, is we actually read the materials and we actually went to the meetings and we listened and we came home and we thought about our relationship with the Transcendent higher power which makes itself known to all of us in subtle and in overt ways. And what Carl Jung believed, what Bill W. lived, and what millions of recovering alcoholics and drug addicts in 12-Step programs will tell you, is that in the dark night of the soul, all you have, really, is your soul. And your transformation will come from connection to that part of you which is beyond material existence, beyond marriage, beyond job, beyond age or income. "Attend to the soul," said Jung. AA was founded upon a program of 12 Steps which does just that. Self-survey, confession, restitution, service. The alcoholic who gets sober without a change of soul has not really visited the inner core of his disease.

And we who have been and are being spiritually torn apart by addiction's dark destructiveness in our intimate lives, we, too, have to attend to our souls.

Many find this in Al-Anon. I have been in Al-Anon for many years but my most in-depth work has been in several years of counseling with a Jungian therapist. Many join study groups in a church. Some find Zen centers. Men often go on retreats organized by spiritual centers.

This is not about a particular form of religion. It is about attention to your soul.

You still have to follow all the DO's and DON'Ts of recovery actions, to contribute in a positive way to the possibility your wife may have so many consequences that she comes to loathe her relationship with alcohol (which today is supplanting her relationship with you) and seeks sobriety. You have to do right actions--for a while-- to see what happens, for your son, for you, and for her.

But we here can tell you that you will best battle the darkness of addiction in your life by going within. You are a busy man. But you can find your own way to this.

If you and your wife stay together forever, addiction is always going to be there. That abyss is always going to be there. But as Bill W. and so many millions of alcoholics and codependent family members have found, there is a spiritual solution.

Have you ever read the Big Book of AA? I highly recommend it. It's online but I love having the paper copy, which you can get online at Amazon or used at Alibris. Its official title is "Alcoholics Anonymous--Fourth Edition."

Al-Anon has good materials at its meetings. "How Al-Anon Works" is an incredible introduction to recovery from the effects of alcoholism in a loved one. This can also be found online.

And the Hazelden bookstore on its website has tapes you can listen to on your drive home.

You are busy. But maybe you can listen to tapes. Most big cities have noon Al-Anon meetings for busy professionals.

And after you have bathed and loved and tucked in your little one, maybe you can take a few minutes for recovery before you close your eyes.

BobbyJ

English Garden....You just wrote an AWESOME reply to his post!
I went back and read it 3 times....Like WOW!---Good stuff

Hopeworks

EG covered it well....

I also found that AA and the 12 steps were the answer for both my XA and myself. Sadly, despite having found authentic recovery after having his own "dark night of the soul" my XA chose to pick up and drink again.

For busy persons I found XA speakers to be an excellent source of great talks for both the A and Alanons. There is a thread on here that lists the best of the best... you can use the search feature to find it.

But the best way is the old way fashioned way... finding a sponsor with a recovery lifestyle and serenity you want to for yourself and dedicating yourself to completing the steps and then living them daily.

m1k3

EnglishGarden,

Thank you.!

You have articulated what I have been feeling but couldn't find the words for.

Your friend,

CentralOhioDad

Don't I know it!

CentralOhioDad

The bolded part is what I have a problem getting to - in many ways I was selfish when I was younger, and worked hard at because not so much so. So, it's hard to think about doing anything for selfish reasons when I worked so hard at NOT being selfish!!

Especially with a 2.5 year-old around, since the world revolves around him!! (We're at the "why, Daddy?" on everything we tell him.. Oy!)

CentralOhioDad

Yes, I want everything done today, and I try to do it all myself... That's tiring..