Avra

I think the reason I have failed to stop drinking is because I have mistaken the Beast's thoughts and desires as my own. When I tried to quit before, I was thinking that the problem was that I wanted to drink too much. Quitting meant shutting down my own desire. Giving in and drinking meant giving in to my own desires, weaknesses.

Now I realize that its not what I want at all. Its what IT wants. Failing and drinking happens because I make the mistake of thinking that its what I inherently want, of falling back into that incorrect way of thinking. And while I know today that its not what I want, that doesnt mean I cannot fall into that trap again. I think it takes constant reminding - at least at first. I am so used to thinking that I like drinking, its so ingrained, that its going to take a while to have it crystallize. And the next time the beast rages, I will need to remind myself. I think my last failure happened because I forgot this.

I also think I "forget" how bad the problem is (or maybe its AV), but if I open the door and let the beast take control, and have a couple of "good" nights where I dont get out of control, then I think that maybe its OK. At the very least I think of myself in control. Nothing could be farther from the truth. If I let the beast in (have that first drink), I think I am on a rollercoaster ride with it driving. It controls everything until I have a really bad drinking session. Then I gain control back as I am in so much emotional turmoil and feel so ashamed that it loses its power for a while. So the bad times will come, its only a question of when, and I have handed over power to it to control me until that bad day comes.

Does this make sense to anyone? Any thoughts on this appreciated.

RobbyRobot

Yeah, you're making great sense about the separation of your AV from you. Awesome!

All the addiction desire is indeed your Beast, so well done.

Yes, your AV wants you to think its all about you, but now you know better, your AV is not YOU.

Exploring

I have never read a post on this site that so closely resembles my experience. I hope a lot of people chime in because they will be helping two people instead of just one. Thanks for posting Avra!!

soberlicious

You are making perfect sense.

Dalek

This is precisely what we do with AVRT. We recognize and separate out the thoughts and feelings that support drinking as not our own. Someone recently remarked that we do this to a ridiculous level with AVRT, but the general idea is this:

Obladi

Avra, yes it makes sense.

I forget, too, and am not nearly as mindful/watchful as I need to be.

Tonight, I had this revelation that (when I think about it) is not really a new thought, but it struck me again that the whole point of AVRT is not to eliminate the desire to drink. The point is to acknowledge that the desire does not need to be fulfilled.

This is, I'm sure the whole point of making a Big Plan. Even if I were to forget "why," I surely wouldn't forget that I had made a promise to myself and that I had further promised to not change my mind.

Thanks for putting this out there.

RobbyRobot

Yeah!!

Avra

Its amazing how insidious it is. I keep thinking about drinking and having some remorse about never being able to do it again. I keep catching myself thinking thats what I want... How can one truly seperate it out and crystallize that?

Dalek

Forget about "can" or "can't", as in "I can't drink," because it isn't true (you can probably drink more than other people, most of whom have far less practice), it isn't effective in deterring the Beast, and because that sort of thinking will also lead to this remorse you speak of. You can do whatever you want in this life pertaining drinking, and the important thing is "will" or "will not".

Decide once and for all what it is that you will or will not do in this life regarding drinking/using. Once you decide that you will not drink again, attribute any thoughts of missing the stuff, mourning the stuff, wanting the stuff, etc., to your Beast. Do not let your AV wield the pronoun "I" around, because that belongs to you. If you hear "I miss drinking, I want a drink," change that to "It misses drinking, and it wants a drink, but I don't drink."

If you haven't done so, I recommend that you read the book, Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction by Jack Trimpey, and the you read through the AVRT discussion threads on this forum.

AVRT Discussion Threads on Sober Recovery

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unentschieden

Thanks for posting avra; it was exactly what I needed to read tonight.

I made a big plan several months ago after reading RR and realized that while I had decided to stop drinking I hadnt decided to never change my mind about that decision! My mind (beast) was producing shadowy images of my mother's future death as justification for a bender.

I take a lot of comfort from the fact that I finally decided to never change my mind. I know that I will never drink again.

Do I get angry about it? Sometimes. Am i sad that I lost control to the point that I had to give up something that in moderation can be tasty, relaxing, and did I mention tasty? You bet! Some may say that is the beast talking but I think not. It DOES stink that will never have a balvenie again. It IS a shame that I couldn't control myself.

However, being myself again is worth more to me than all the alcohol in the world. Shedding the shame, sickness, wasted money, lies and obsessive thoughts has left me raw, real and finally alive.

My beast was raging tonight (home alone for a few days) and I came on SR for support. With your post I found it.

Thank you.

soberlicious

lol...I'm not laughing at this because it's funny...I'm just laughing because my AV does the same. Scenarios of the worse possible situation(s), including the deaths of loved ones. Ruthless no doubt.

I'm not going to debate whether this is AV or not. I'm just going to say that for me...I do not miss it, nor do I think it's a shame. I recognize that the way that I look at alcohol and its use on a societal level is very different from others. I felt this way even when I was addicted to it. I have always thought it a shame that people think they "need" something to relax, or be social, or whatever. I've said this before. I think that alcohol use on any level (or any other drug for that matter) is for those that lack...
If I am only outrageous, witty, clever, charming, and confident when I'm buzzed up, what does that say about me? I prefer that I am those things all on my own

unentschieden

Soberlicioous: I don't know you well, but well enough your humor, like mine, is a little skewed from the mainstream. I also thought it funny!

And in the sober (in its alternate meaning:serious) light of morning I can say that my statements last night that I would not attribute to "it" was "it" being very clever. "I" have a difficult time with the separation, I think because those two "arguments" are where I am weakest....

I love being sober and now that I have been for almost 10 months it's tarted the whispers of "why forever?"

Thanks for helping me recognize that!

RobbyRobot

Yeah, I too won't debate whether there is AV in your internal dialgoue, unentschieden, the point made would be moot. More important is YOU feel yourself to be real and true WITHOUT all the alcohol in the world.

You did good with not changing your mind, no matter the challenge. We all do.

Yeah, except for medical reasons, as implied, well said and true, soberlicious!

soberlicious

Yes, except for serious medical conditions...but, I also personally think drugs are over-prescribed both for physical and emotional pain. I am not trying to start a debate here, just stating my personal opinion. My culture in particular (western culture) tends toward the misconception that one should be "happy" at all times. Being down or uncomfortable at times is a perfectly normal response to the flow of life...but we are taught anything but. At the first sign of discomfort it's run, hide, numb...anything to not experience it. I think this mindset robs us of important processes, and that's why so many of us remain "stuck". Many of our (western) doctors or other "experts" do not push hard enough the importance of diet, exercise, sleep, and meditation, and the idea of sitting with discomfort and allowing it to pass. Our culture is very "other-reliant" as opposed to "self-reliant". We are fooling ourselves if we think the collective beast mentality doesn't loom large. It does.

RobbyRobot

Well, I'm very much in agreement with all you've said. I'm all for doing our best without additional medications. However, when our best, relatively speaking, does not suffice, then medications can of course, and should be used, and no shaming or complex guilt/failure baggage needs to be attached, I'm sure you agree.

I really practice myself what I'm talking about here: I use meditation daily to sit with my discomforts. To be honest, not all challenges can be passed into nothingness. Some challenges simply must be endured, and in the endurance is found additional strengths and a new resource which otherwise would not have been created. Were I not able to successfully endure, I would absolutely make full use of available medications, and I would feel sincere in my use of those medications.

I think the reverse of your statement, soberlicious, is also true in our western society -- all too often medications have a stigma and guilt-by-association for those who obviously are benefited by the use of medications. These people are no less than those who meditate their way out of similar challenges. I'm sure you agree here too.

There are no easy answers. You've spoken well, I feel. I too appreciate we did not debate this, nor our we required to have a debate. Thank you, soberlicious. Awesome!

Toss

Avra,

Like others have said, I know the Beast, mine is called the Demon. I woke this morning and thought "how do I trick the demon into a secret chamber in my mind and lock the door?" That is how sad my life is - like knowing the names of the convience store clerks where I buy the poison, like I'm a character on Cheers.

I think everyone has that presence in their mind. The physical part for me is easy when I stop, it's the mental part that is impossible.

Thanks for sharing,

Toss

RobbyRobot

My Beast is best just left alone. Anything I may want to "do to it" is really just more AV to me. Shifting of course, is an exception, and can be helpful to learn first-hand about my Beast in different situations.

I'm not really one to "beat up" on my Beast, nor do I feel sorry for the monster my Beast truly is though either. My Beast just is, and the AV that goes with it, also just is. I'll always have both, and so why get all emotional about it...

Then again...

Sometimes...

HAHAHA