Why does active addiction turn addicts away from those they love

Old 09-19-2012, 09:50 AM
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Why does active addiction turn addicts away from those they love

I should know better... but why do addicts hurt and turn away from the people they love most (next to their DOC - least we forget) when they relapse? Yet 'maintain' 'relationships' with the people who are not 'intimately' involved in their lives - and when I say 'intimate' I am not necessarily meaning romantic - but just very close, old friends....
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:46 AM
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My take?

Because it's easier to indulge a superficial relationship. The addict can put their best face on and wear it for a short period of time. Expectations are lower. And what usually ends up happening is the addict cannot sustain their relationships because they don't have anything to give. By default, the addict is operating at a deficit. So, yeah, for short bursts their can be a good friend or partner. Over the long haul, though, the superficial relationships end up like all their other relationships.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:32 AM
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Birds of a feather flock together and all that.

Another question to ponder is why we codependents allow some people to treat us like carp and come back for more?
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by cynical one View Post
Because we try to come between them and their addiction.

Because we are buzz kills.

Because casual aquaintances have no expectations.

Etc.
Etc.
Etc.
So true!!!!
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by outtolunch View Post
Birds of a feather flock together and all that.

Another question to ponder is why we codependents allow some people to treat us like carp and come back for more?
Hey Outtolunch I always value your 'unsugar coated' feedback!! But you are so right. But isn't this the point of SR?? I can honestly say that if it were not for SR (I only joined in June) - that I would have gone back for more. More what?? Abuse!! And even more abuse!! Not (well for me) in the physical sense but emotional! And then kept going back for more. The cycle of H with me and his addiction lasted 4 years or so (well that is what I think - but looking back on his behaviour he could have been using for much longer than I knew)....
God knows - but truly I have come such a long way with SR - and have managed to 'step off' the wheel of recovery - active addiction - recovery - active addiction....
But still tough!
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by cynical one View Post

Because unless we have done a whole lot of hard work on ourselves and have arrived at acceptance it WILL show on our faces...the sadness, the anger, the dissapointment, the disgust, the resentment, the martyr...and who the heck would want to look at that?
Isnt' that the truth - and even though I have come so far in my recovery - I know I would still wear the face of sadness!!!! Sounds like I am truly the 'burning martyr - but I can honestly say I have never judged H. Just thanked God I am not an addict.....
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:14 PM
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I have thought about this regarding my son Lara. We have overall had a good relationship with our son; he is however a functional 28 year old with his own home, so he does not live with us and I know that makes a difference in the dynamics. But, we recently had a confrontation with him regarding his drug use, and I was concerned that just our admitting that we know, and discussing our feelings with him regarding this would make him pull away. So far it hasn’t made a negative impact and I sort of think it has made him a little more comfortable getting things out in the open.

But, we have been very careful not to judge him, not to question him about his use, or make suggestions that we feel he really needs to implement when we see him. We try to the best of our abilities to treat him normal, and show him respect, and the same level of concern we have always had. I think the moment we start trying to control his life, nag him about using cocaine, telling him about various treatments, having that look of pity and sadness on our faces; it would make him uncomfortable and we would slowly start to see him drift further away. Obviously parent / child relationship is a lot different than girlfriend /boyfriend.

Our son does not seem to want to form any emotional attachments to women right now; but yet he never seems to be alone, there is always someone new. Ive wondered if they are using with him, or if they have no idea he even is on cocaine? Or when they try to “save” him, that is when he pushes them away? In the end, I know whatever it is , he is doing it to protect himself.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MrsDragon View Post
and I was concerned that just our admitting that we know, and discussing our feelings with him regarding this would make him pull away.
I think the moment we start trying to control his life, nag him about using cocaine, telling him about various treatments, having that look of pity and sadness on our faces; it would make him uncomfortable and we would slowly start to see him drift further away.
Hi MrsDragon thanks for your post... reading your post reminds me so much of me and my sister. H (he is not my husband but a darling friend of over 15 years - whom I became intimately involved with about 7 years ago - so we have known each other and have been so close for many years) and who is a very close friend of my sisters - when we first suspected (heard the rumours) that he was using cocaine - we decided not to judge / not to comment / to ignore what we had heard / to treat him as we always did... so not to 'chase' him away - so that he knew he could always come to us in his 'hour of need'. But isn't this considered 'enabling'???
Such a tough one!!! I took this approach with H's coke addiction for years - we were alway so very close - but recently his behaviour has impacted to greatly on me - and I have had to go 'no contact'. It is devastating for me - but I need to protect my own sanity!
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Lara View Post
Hi MrsDragon thanks for your post... reading your post reminds me so much of me and my sister. H (he is not my husband but a darling friend of over 15 years - whom I became intimately involved with about 7 years ago - so we have known each other and have been so close for many years) and who is a very close friend of my sisters - when we first suspected (heard the rumours) that he was using cocaine - we decided not to judge / not to comment / to ignore what we had heard / to treat him as we always did... so not to 'chase' him away - so that he knew he could always come to us in his 'hour of need'. But isn't this considered 'enabling'???
Such a tough one!!! I took this approach with H's coke addiction for years - we were alway so very close - but recently his behaviour has impacted to greatly on me - and I have had to go 'no contact'. It is devastating for me - but I need to protect my own sanity!
We don’t feel that we are enabling him because of our decision. I think it comes down to personal boundaries, and what each of us find acceptable to maintain balance in our lives. My son had been employed by my husbands company; and when he discovered shall we say ‘improprieties’; he had to confront him about the suspected drug use; and ultimately suspend him from his job, until he can prove that he is stable professionally.

On the other hand, we also had to discuss with him our personal relationship. We have always had what we consider to be a healthy, respectful, enjoyable relationship with him. Even when he is actively using, he never comes to our home when he is obviously high from using, he will have a drink; but he has never got drunk, etc. He has never stole from us (probably only because he hasn’t needed to). We had one incident after my husband suspeneded him; before we had the family discussion; where he most likely under cocaine influence damaged outdoor property, but it was more done from his feeling hurt by us than anything else.

So as far as enabling goes; as long as he is able to maintain the relationship we have, and it falls within boundaries we set to keep us healthy; then I don’t think it is enabling. Others may of course disagree, but my husband and I have made a rule that we will make decisions on our son, based solely on what we can live with. We have no idea what will happen with him going forward, but whatever it is; we have to be able to live with the decisions we have made.

In your situation, it sounds like he broke your boundaries, and made your life miserable; in that case your decision to go no contact was probably best because you need to guard your own health and sanity before worrying about him.

I hope things get better for you soon Lara; I know it must be very hard to end a long standing friendship, especially one where romantic feelings likely remain.
Hopefully this road you are on will lead you to find new happiness soon.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:01 PM
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AA's big book, Alcoholics Anonymous, describes alcoholics as "self-will run riot". They suffer from self-absorption, low self-esteem combined with enormous ego, selfishness and self-destructiveness. When someone gets sober, the 12 Steps can make a huge difference in the mindset of someone who previously thought the world revolved around them. It takes hard work and investment of many years. "You can't turn a pickle back into a cucumber." Add to that, when in active alcoholism the bottle is their higher power, God, love of their life, exclusive relationship.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MrsDragon View Post
We don’t feel that we are enabling him because of our decision.
It sounds like you have a loving family - a strong family! What a precious gift in this time... Sounds like my family - part whom I miss dearly. I lost my dad about 10 years ago (he was only 51 yrs - we were business partners and my mum and dad had been married for over 35 years) - and then a year after my dad died my 23 year old beautiful brother (Martin) was killed in a car crash...
My dad was an alcoholic. yes, it brought huge upsets and traumas (though never ever abuse) - but I thank God that mum never 'threw Dad out'.... we had our own boundaries (that might not have been acceptable to some hardcore SR members) but were to us - and I am so grateful I grew up in a home with my Dad and mum (though not always a picnic)...

God bless you MrsDragon and your family
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:25 PM
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2nd mom to 20 y.o. "lil' boy"

Hi, I just signed up today after reading thru some posts last night. I have no idea how to do this chat/forum, etc. but I need help...

My best friend died when she was 35 (16 yrs. ago) and she left a boy and a girl, the sweetest children in the world. I told her before she died that I would always be a part and watch over her children.

the "boy" is messed up emotionally, mentally and now snorting oxy for the last year off and on. He has a VERY loving family full of forgiveness with all paths leading to God. I think they have done all they can do.
I am taking a leap of faith with my husb. to try and help the boy no matter what it takes, he never said goodbye to his Mom and NEVER grieved for her. He is very sad and angry that his Mom wasn't there for him like all of his other friends.

I am so scared he is going to give up and not choose to keep on "keepin' on"!

QUOTE=outtolunch;3585119]Birds of a feather flock together and all that.

Another question to ponder is why we codependents allow some people to treat us like carp and come back for more?[/QUOTE]

Last edited by Binky2012; 09-19-2012 at 01:29 PM. Reason: mis spelling
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:49 PM
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Lara and Binky,

I recently have been struggling with the concepts of loss, grief, acceptance; and what happens when you cant find acceptance and peace.

Loss and grief is what started my son down the path of drinking, and then cocaine use.

I have it in my heart, that he will never end his use of substances (permanently) until he is able to accept the loss, forgive himself , let go of the 'ifs', and find peace in his heart.

There is also a special forum on here for Grief.... I just discovered it a few days ago if either of you are interested in reading there.


Binky,

I think if this is your first post, to get the attention from all members (as it deserves) I would try opening up a new thread on this forum wall.

Copy what you have written here, and then once you leave this post; and are back at the main page, you can look to your upper left hand side, and click on the new thread button. Then just paste your story in and submit.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:38 PM
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There are more interactions, and so more chances for conflict, with those that are closest to the A. Addiction exacerbates the number and seriousness of those conflicts, and generates more unresolved guilty behavior and feelings that get in the way of closeness or intimacy.

The A deep-down knows he or she is out of control, that their loved one knows it, and that their loved one may be more "in control." Projection of self-loathing.

Those closest to the A may control the purse.

They may hide the bottles, toss the drugs, count the infractions, and do all the "codie" things that further distance the two.

The A does not have a normal ability to emotionally connect with himself or herself (stuffed and denied feelings), let alone meaningfully with anyone else. Those closest to them want that connection while acquaintances generally don't. The A gets annoyed with efforts to emotionally connect by those closest to the A.
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:11 PM
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thank you so much...

Dear Mrs. Dragon, thank you so much for reaching out to me with your words of wisdom, you will never know how much it is appreciated. I will do as you say and repost as a new thread...many thanks!

Originally Posted by MrsDragon View Post
Lara and Binky,

I recently have been struggling with the concepts of loss, grief, acceptance; and what happens when you cant find acceptance and peace.

Loss and grief is what started my son down the path of drinking, and then cocaine use.

I have it in my heart, that he will never end his use of substances (permanently) until he is able to accept the loss, forgive himself , let go of the 'ifs', and find peace in his heart.

There is also a special forum on here for Grief.... I just discovered it a few days ago if either of you are interested in reading there.


Binky,

I think if this is your first post, to get the attention from all members (as it deserves) I would try opening up a new thread on this forum wall.

Copy what you have written here, and then once you leave this post; and are back at the main page, you can look to your upper left hand side, and click on the new thread button. Then just paste your story in and submit.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Titanic View Post
There are more interactions, and so more chances for conflict, with those that are closest to the A. Addiction exacerbates the number and seriousness of those conflicts, and generates more unresolved guilty behavior and feelings that get in the way of closeness or intimacy.

The A deep-down knows he or she is out of control, that their loved one knows it, and that their loved one may be more "in control." Projection of self-loathing.

Those closest to the A may control the purse.

They may hide the bottles, toss the drugs, count the infractions, and do all the "codie" things that further distance the two.

The A does not have a normal ability to emotionally connect with himself or herself (stuffed and denied feelings), let alone meaningfully with anyone else. Those closest to them want that connection while acquaintances generally don't. The A gets annoyed with efforts to emotionally connect by those closest to the A.
Thank you Titanic for your wise words - makes so much sense...Basically it is all about 'them'. The only thing up to 'us' is our own recovery and living our own lives... getting there slowly!
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MrsDragon View Post
I have it in my heart, that he will never end his use of substances (permanently) until he is able to accept the loss, forgive himself , let go of the 'ifs', and find peace in his heart.
Dear MrsDragon... I know it is all so common cocaine addiction (H is a cocaine addict) - but every time I read about someone 'else's story it fills me with sadness. You never grow 'numb' to reading the stories - I suppose that is what makes us human (some of us)!
I do believe that if grief has played a role in the addicts life - that is is essential the grief is dealt with. Many people believe if we bring in the discussion of grief as a possible cause for the addiction - that we are simply making excuses for the addict - but I don't believe this is true. I know my dad's alcoholism was as a result of undealt with grief and massive post traumatic stress syndrome (he had been in the police force).
I know how the loss of my dad and brother (in just 18 months of each other) crippled me with grief. What made it even harder is that I always had a strong faith. Even the night my brother was killed - I absolutely KNEW (still do) that he was safe - that he and his beautiful girlfriend (they were both killed) were rescued by the Angels and everyone who had passed before (like my dad) would have been there - I really do believe this. So my spiritual being understood and was at peace. But my 'human being ' my 'intellectual mind' could not grasp the horror of the accident - or the horror of seeing my beautiful 6"5 tall brother, a triathlete - beautiful 'boy' with curly brown hair - dead! And all these years (he was killed in 2003) I still battle with that image.... and I know how I have escaped from the pain. Never drugs, but partying hard... drinking at times too much (binges)...
So anyone with a tendency towards addiction ( I really believe we are born with the makeup for addiction - or not) doesn't really stand a chance.
So if your son gets serious grief counselling - I do believe it will give him that extra chance of full recovery. I really do!
I pray for you and your son and his journey of recovery. Lara
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Lara View Post
Dear MrsDragon... I know it is all so common cocaine addiction (H is a cocaine addict) - but every time I read about someone 'else's story it fills me with sadness. You never grow 'numb' to reading the stories - I suppose that is what makes us human (some of us)!
I do believe that if grief has played a role in the addicts life - that is is essential the grief is dealt with. Many people believe if we bring in the discussion of grief as a possible cause for the addiction - that we are simply making excuses for the addict - but I don't believe this is true. I know my dad's alcoholism was as a result of undealt with grief and massive post traumatic stress syndrome (he had been in the police force).
I know how the loss of my dad and brother (in just 18 months of each other) crippled me with grief. What made it even harder is that I always had a strong faith. Even the night my brother was killed - I absolutely KNEW (still do) that he was safe - that he and his beautiful girlfriend (they were both killed) were rescued by the Angels and everyone who had passed before (like my dad) would have been there - I really do believe this. So my spiritual being understood and was at peace. But my 'human being ' my 'intellectual mind' could not grasp the horror of the accident - or the horror of seeing my beautiful 6"5 tall brother, a triathlete - beautiful 'boy' with curly brown hair - dead! And all these years (he was killed in 2003) I still battle with that image.... and I know how I have escaped from the pain. Never drugs, but partying hard... drinking at times too much (binges)...
So anyone with a tendency towards addiction ( I really believe we are born with the makeup for addiction - or not) doesn't really stand a chance.
So if your son gets serious grief counselling - I do believe it will give him that extra chance of full recovery. I really do!
I pray for you and your son and his journey of recovery. Lara
Lara,

Thank you. I am praying for you as you walk your path also. And will pray for your H also; that he will stop this run before it destroys him.

Such loss (your dad & brother) in such a short period of time; Im so sorry. I have read in some of your posts how you talk about the closeness you have with your sister; I hope that the two of you were able to lean on each other for support. Having a strong support system where you are able to freely express your grief I think is really invaluable in helping you move through the stages of grief. That is something that my son lacked. Obviously he had his family; but the one person (his now ex wife) that he was probably the most emotionally close to was unavailable to him emotionally due to her own methods of dealing with grief.

Yes, Im sure your right, a lot of people would say that we are making excuses; backtracking to the source and emotional pain (in this case grief) that was never dealt with. But in my opinion a lot of people cant see the forest through the trees, and they think if the person just stops their use of substances, then everything else will just fall into place. But I don’t think it will unless they also get the proper assistance in dealing with the original pain. Just differences in opinion I suppose.

I am not entirely convinced of the role genetics play; I think lots of times when you see addiction running in families, it is mostly due to learnt behaviors within the family structure, or other environmental similarities that are shared between family. With our son, I don’t think it is genetic because there is no one on either side of the family that has substance abuse problems. It is more like when you said, that you dealt with some of your grief through partying too much, and sometimes drinking to much for an escape. That is how he started; drinking too much upon occasion which somehow led him to be introduced to the cocaine. And he admits he just likes the way it makes him feel, and also he has admitted basically that is provides an emotional escape because he is not ready to deal with the grief and loss.

I can only hope he stays safe, and he is ready to deal with it all soon. The longer it goes on, the more damage he inflicts upon his own psyche.
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Old 09-22-2012, 03:18 AM
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Because it's uncomfortable and the active addict/alcoholic doesn't like feeling uncomfortable. It's easier to continue using and the people who truly love him/her only bring up feelings of guilt, shame, self-hatred and the "truth."

Addicts are all about avoiding the pain. It's painful to face how your behavior has impacted the people you love the most. MUCH MUCH easier, in some ways, to just keep on using--and blocking it out.

My husband has been out of the house since Feb. I can count on one hand the number of times he has seen our two daughters. He has only made 2 attempts to see our 10-year-old and 1 attempt to see our 18-year-old. He wants, at this point, NOTHING, to do with me.

Be grateful that you don't have to deal with the active addiction face-to-face. We miss him, we love him and we pray he gets help... BUT He is not someone I would ever dream of living with right now. The girls and I are much better off, when he is using, if he stays away.

I also think the part of him that's still able to feel, purposely stays away because he doesn't want the kids to see him like this. In some ways, I think he protects us from what would be truly awful to see. This is the part of his life he feels deep shame about. No one sets out to BE and Addict--not exactly a topic of pride. Not to mention, I wouldn't tolerate it--so he would have to go back to lying.

He has lied--off and on- for the last 22 years. Imagine the burden of living a lie in a house witha firm commitment to the 12-steps. My mother has 36 years of sobriety and I've been working an Al-Anon program for a large chunk of my life. The 12-steps are a big part of our lives.

It must've been torture to try and live in "our world."

But, I'm still glad he isn't living here! He has a skanky fellow addict to encourage his drug use and that's fine with me for now--because he's isn't the man I married right now anyway.

Heather
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Old 09-22-2012, 11:07 AM
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Dear HBerry43... thank you for your post and sharing your experience. What a difficult time for you. I grew up with an alcoholic dad - but we were 'lucky' in the way that Dad was always around - but only dealing with these issues at the age of 38! In a way H gave me one gift - he forced me to seek help for myself and so now tackling all my co-dependency issues.
It must be so difficult raising a young family whilst dealing with an alcoholic husband. My heart goes out to you. I will send you a longer reply in the morning. All the best to you, lara
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