NewLou

Hi,
If I am stepping over a line by posting in this section, please accept my apologies, and ignore thread. I am a recovering alcoholic, and my partner is in Al Anon. He is so grateful to Al Anon because it taught him to be able to detach with love and not to let the drinker (me) get inside his headspace while I was drinking. It's a wonderful gift to have and he is able to use it in his life now with family members and at work. We are in a great place now.

I was just looking for advice regarding the same thing - detaching with love and not letting someone get under your skin. My sister has the whole family running around after her, she's drowning in self pity and poor me's and everything revolves around her and I just CANNOT separate her from my head. It's a skill I don't have and it's starting to drive me crazy. I have spoken about it at meetings but no-one has said anything that has helped. I was just wondering if someone could share something that could help? Thanks.

Zee

Hi, its a fine line for us RA's. I can see both sides of the coin. I didn't use AA but I find reading in all sections of this great forum helps me enormously with my own recovery. I have to tread carefully, I have only posted here once, as I fear that I would be a raging hypocrite to say anything. I expect someone will give you some of their great knowledge and wisdom soon

Hopeworks

Welcome,

A really good place to start is to read the "stickies" at the top of the thread list. A lot of it is the "best of the best" and will give you a lot to consider and ask questions on the forum if you want more information.

BlueSkies1

I have no problem with cross-posting. I wish it happened more often on these boards. I think the A's have much to gain from the codies, and vice versa, namely, understanding!
We're all people, and we've all behaved badly, segregating on alcohol alone seems silly to me.
So welcome!

You've touched upon a sore spot for me. I just saw most of my family a few days ago, and I get myself worked up into a tizzy before I even arrive.
Each of the people in our families has their own issues, own dependencies, and contributes to the dynamics of the family, in both the ways the family is healthy and the ways it is dysfunctional.
First off, I have found that being combative and pointing out what is sometimes the obvious, does no good but get me into hot water if I am the lone man out, doesn't matter if I am right and they are wrong. People don't like their dysfunctions pointed out to their face. They become aggressive and defensive.
Knowing that, how can you participate in the family dynamics without being a doormat, accepting less than, or enabling? It's tricky business.
What I do is try to adhere to each person's healthy part, and avoid their sick or dysfunctional part.
It's the best I can do because I don't have control over anybody but me.

FireSprite

This is just my opinion/method of dealing with detachment. I haven't formally 'learned' or read about this specifically... I just kind of make it up as I go.

For ME, detaching is about getting outside of my head & looking at this person/situation as a 3rd party would. I imagine it like watching a movie..... I see it, but I'm not interacting with it.

The 'with love' part comes from realizing I want the best possible outcome for this person (them to be happy & free from the issues that hold them back) but also knowing that only THEY can make the decision to start living their life in a better way... so I limit the ways we interact which don't allow me to act/react with love. When an argument begins, I walk away. With no audience to feed the drama the effect is often lost. I work on not taking their negative energy personally, which requires continually reminding myself to not play into their drama, which zaps my patience & shortens the time/energy I spend with that person. BUT the time I HAVE spent was loving & supportive.

With my AH this certainly resulted in less time spent together = detaching physically & not just emotionally. When I really felt the detachment for the first time, it was an real AHA! moment..... & it struck me as being so simple that it becomes complicated. Without me feeding into his negative energy he either feeds into it all on his own (I called it the Tazmanian Devil Act) OR he can try to interact with me in a calmer, more rational manner. Either way, I've handed him the power to determine how the interaction proceeds. I'll always be able to choose to walk away.

Tuffgirl

Folks, you are always welcome here on our side of the fence, and your perspectives are often most enlightening. However, sometimes things hit raw nerves, so have patience here as you do for others in the forums of SR.

That said, detaching with love was a hard concept to wrap my head around and it takes daily practice. Basically, its a conscious choice to not dwell, obsess, or otherwise constantly fret over a situation I have no control over anyway. It's the self awareness to talk myself out of that place - for me I use distractions that I enjoy, a walk, reading, a movie - anything to break the pattern of obsessing over something. I am going through a situation with a family member right now that requires me to keep very detached. Its still a challenge for me, but I get better at it every day.

I'd also recommend having a trusted friend who you can occasionally vent to, just to let off steam. Someone who'll just let you rant for a little bit, and then steer you back to positive thinking.

It's not easy, and takes practice and time, but once you grasp what it means to detach, it makes a lot of sense! I have saved my serenity over and over again by learning this.

Also do a search here with the keyword detachment - you'll find a lot of good threads about it. It's a common theme on our board.

NewLou

Thank you everyone and to MadeOfGlass - I also believe that addicts and concerned persons have so much to learn from each other. And need each other's learning as it enriches both our recoveries. Myself and my partner were very lucky in that we were in a mixed aftercare group with both addicts and concerned persons. I relapsed and went to a different relapse prevention group, and when I finished (sober) I asked if I could go into a different aftercare group to my partner as by now we felt that was his group. So now we both had a group where we didn't feel limited by each other.
I was able to share HIS experience with the addicts in my group (unfortunately every CP left my group and it was addicts only), and he was reassured that I wasn't completely mad when he heard the same issues coming up for other addicts in his group as had come up for me. Hearing them helped him understand me a bit more, and I hope that by my sharing his feelings, hurts and fears with my group that people in my group were more understanding of what their partners were going through.

We also went to an AA convention this year, which we really enjoyed, as there were speakers from both AA and Al Anon, and it was great to be there together - after the meeting he went off to chat with his Al Anon pals and I went to chat with my AA pals and it was such a lovely positive night.

Anyway, thank you all - I am lucky that I have another sister (M) and we can let off steam to each other about the other sister (S). Then I worry that M is getting too involved in S's life too.... lol... a vicious circle.. I am powerless over both of them. Thank you everyone, your comments have helped me so much, and thank you for the welcome

Learn2Live

Detaching with love, to me, means taking a giant step backwards, out of a situation that is causing me emotional upheaval, and looking at it from that new vantage point. Kind of like standing outside a house, looking at what is happening inside through a big window. From here, I can allow what is to be what it is. I do not have to participate. I do not have to react. I can just stand outside the window and watch.

Detaching with love, to me, first requires I learn how to love. Truly love. Not "unconditionally" love as some like to say, but to be able to look at all of mankind with love. (Not quite sure I am completely there yet). This doesn't mean feeling sorry for other people, in fact, for me it has meant NOT feeling sorry for other people. For me, it means learning new definitions of love that I have never known or understood before.

Detaching with love, to me, means being able to see the alcoholic person in my life (for instance, my dad) as a completely separate person from me, and separate from who I think he should be. Detaching with love means I let my dad be the guy he is, the human being he is, without ANY expectations that he properly fulfill his role as dad for me.

Detaching with love, to me, means treating everyone, including the raging alcoholic, the hurtful XBF, and the insane drug addict in my life with respect, even if they don't "deserve" it. It means NOT yelling and screaming at them even though I want to. It means treating those people with the same kindness and respect (meaning: love) as I would a stranger I'm standing next to at the grocery store. It means I make no assumptions and I take no liberties with them that I would not make or take with the stranger.

Detaching with love, to me, means I allow myself to NOT be responsible for anything the other person has done, does now, or will do. It means I focus on me and my choices and behaviors, and do the best I can to take the best care of myself as I can, and to meet my responsibilities to myself and those I am truly responsible for.

Detaching with love, to me, means I make the decisions about what and who I allow into my life, and how much. And I make myself responsible for implementing those decisions.

lillamy

I think mostly, for me, it's about determining where I end and where other people begin.
My AXH was very good at making his problems and moods mine -- and I was very good at taking on not only his but anyone's problems and moods.

I've successfully used the skills I learned in Al-Anon to detach with love from my children's emotional turmoil. It sounds horrid when I type it, but that's the "with love" part. It's a bit like... if they're running around hysterical, I can't help them by joining their hysteria; I can only help them if I can remain calm and see things for what they are minus the emotional upheaval.

It's a two step forwards, one step back process, though. We're so trained (not just codies) to feel like joining in someone's feelings is the "proper" response.

PaperDolls

I'm a double winner and I remember when I hesitated to post over here. Heck, some days I still do hesitate.

Although I have attended lots of Alanon meetings I've never gotten regular about it. Most of what I have learned about detaching has from been from SR. Lots of reading.

For most AA members, this concept of detaching certainly applies. We deal with alcoholics all the time. Especially if we sponsor people. It's not easy. It's always been difficult for me when I had to make the decision to end the sponsor/sponsee relationship. The things I've learned here have helped tremendously.

I keep meaning to start attending Alanon meetings more regularly ..... life gets in the way .... not an original excuse, I know.

At any rate, have you considered attending Alanon meetings in your area? Good stuff.

Impurrfect

((NewLou)) - I'm one of those "double winners". I'm an RA and a recovering codie (codependent). It wasn't until I found myself drawn to this forum that I realized I'd been so codie, I turned to drugs to numb it out. This forum has been a lifesaver for me.

Detaching with love. Okay, I left XABF#3 (slow learner) when I chose recovery. He wanted to continue to use, I wanted recovery. I told him I loved him but could not have him in my life as I made very bad decisions (I used) whenever I was around him.

Fast forward 5-1/2 years. I'm still living back at home (financial consequences of when I used) with a stepmom who is an A/ACOA/codie and a dad who has become a raging codie. I came back here in desparation.

My sm (stepmom) will often pass out or get totally whacked out on drugs, and I used to think i could fix it, but now know I can't. My dad? He doesn't often hear what I say, but he DOES notice my actions. He notices that when my niece gets into a rage mode, I walk away. He notices that when my sm is passed out, I check her breathing then walk away (I used to be an RN). He tells me that watching how *I* react to things has helped him.

I'm not perfect, by any means. I just know that I can't change anyone who doesn't want to be changed. Is it hard? Oh yeah, I know where addiction leads. Is it possible? Absolutely. My dad has some "issues" that I don't want to deal with. I told him "we've talked about this, we need to agree to disagree, and I will no longer talk about it". He was ticked, to say the least. He kept trying and I kept repeating the same thing. He no longer brings it up.

I love my dad, I love my sm, but I can't deal with some of their issues. I cling to this board, I set boundaries and I enforce them. I can't tell you how awesome it feels when we stand up for ourselves.

I don't know about you, but I had a lot of shame from what I put my family through. After some time in recovery, though, I could stand firm and say "I'm SORRY for what I put you through but I am no longer that person" and could rattle off all kinds of situations to back me up. My dad hasn't thrown my past in my face for years, though it was quite frequent in the beginning.

It started with me taking care of me, doing the next right thing. Yep, I was a homeless, streetwalking crack addict, but that is my PAST and I am no longer that person. Now? My family will tell me how different I am (in a good way) and it's because of my past A/codie issues and SR that I am who I am.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

Seagreen

Just want to say how much I'm enjoying this thread, and thank you to everyone for their insights It's good to get perspectives from both sides of the fence- my partner is in recovery(3.5 years clean) and is just learning about codependency issues.
I'd kinda got lost in his recovery over the years, went to alanon years ago and only recently 'remembered' the tools I had.
Detaching with love, when I first heard it, was a massive relief for me. Growing up with an alcoholic dad, chaotic family, then alcoholic bfs, understanding that I didn't have make everything ok for everyone, no matter what it took out of me, was a revelation. It's still my default and I have to remember to love myself first.
((NewLou)) My sister was anorexic and bulimic and now uses various drugs, drinks and is chaotic - I don't have contact with her now, she sends twisted, nasty letters that I've learnt to put straight in the bin - I used to feel I had to read them, all it did was upset me and I don't think she would even remember what she had written. She would have the family running around her too - before Alanon I used to feel a mixture of jealousy and disgust ( I sensed it was sick but didn't have the words/understanding for it then). I used to be so angry with her and with the enabling going on, learning to detach was a life saver for me.
Even though I love my sister and understand she is sick I don't feel bad for not having her in my life at the moment. I can't help her.
I'm sure you'll find a healthier way to deal with her by learning about codependency and feel easier about putting some boundaries in place. Your recovery will have changed the dynamics in your family - you are a shining light and they might find that uncomfortable. Nearly 30 years since I went to my first Alanon meeting and I think some of my family secretly still think I'm a bit bonkers Ah well!

sugarbear1

My friends and I attend both AA and Al Anon.

Have you considered Al Anon for yourself? Not the same meetings as your partner, though.

WishingWell

This was given to me by my therapist years ago when I started this learning process. I have found this very helpful - maybe others will too!

Detachment Is . . .

Releasing another person to allow them to be themselves and to learn through their own mistakes. In doing this, one is forced to be responsible only for themselves and to make decisions without the motive of influencing others. Or fearing their rejection.

To “Let Go” is not to cut myself off – it is the realization that I can’t control another person.

It is not to enable but to allow learning from natural consequences.

It is to admit powerlessness, which means the outcome is not in my hands.

It is not to try to change or blame another, it is to make the most of myself.

To “Let Go” is not to care for but to care about.

It is not to fix but to be supportive.

It is not to judge, but to allow another to be their own human being.

It is not to be in the middle of arranging all the outcomes but to allow others to decide their own destinies.

It is not to be protective - it is to permit another to face full reality.

To “Let Go “ is not to deny but to accept.

It is not to nag, scold or argue but instead to search out my own shortcomings and correct them.

It is not to adjust everything to my desires but to take each day as it comes and cherish myself in it.

It is not to criticize and regulate anybody but to try to become what I dream I can be.

To “Let Go” is not to regret the past but to grow and live for the future.

It is to fear less and love more.

It does not mean to stop caring, it means that I can’t do "it" for you.

Cyranoak

This is great. Thanks for sharing it.

C-