Learn2Live

Many of us come here to SR after reading a description of Narcissism and say it sounds just like the alcoholic spouse or significant other. This excerpt from, "Why Is It Always About You?" by Sandy Hotchkiss, seems to describe AXBF perfectly. It is bringing me peace and serenity today to read this book. I am beginning to better understand who I have been living with these past few years. Maybe it will help you today too.

This just explains so very much for me. I'm sitting here shaking my head. I feel so defeated.

ZiggyB

Definitely sounds familiar to me too... well you're not defeated inasmuch as you're free from a lifetime of punishment and abuse.

Learn2Live

Hi ZiggyB. Hope you're doing OK today. Yes, reading this book is also freeing because it is showing me what else was in store if we had stayed together. It's beginning to make sense to me why both his sister and his mother said to me after he left, "At least you didn't marry him!" Can you imagine how bad he must be (that I didn't see) if his own mother is saying this about him???

dandylion

Dear learn2live, I absolutely agree with Ziggy's wise words!!! YOU are not defeated!!!

The Universe has delivered this information into your hands. NOW YOU KNOW. This is the truth that can set you free.

You can use this as the herald of your new beginning.

My children's father is a narcissist (not alcoholic). When it dawned on me that there was never to be a ME as long as I stayed in that relationship--my decision was made. I moved forward.

That was decades ago. I have heard from others that he still hasn't changed at all.
I needed to l eave and I have never regretted that decision.

dandylion

ZiggyB

Hi L2L-
Yes it's a good thing you never married him. I did not even move in with my ex although there were times that I thought about it. Talk about being a narcissist -- he seemed to think my entire world should revolve around him and his needs, and I should be a better housekeeper, a socialite and of course have sex with him whenever I felt like it. In short, I needed to be perfect and he needed to do whatever he wanted to, especially if it revolved around being at the bar every day. I could go on and on....

But I am feeling better these days, and I hope you are too!

BlueSkies1

L2L...I know, I know. Some days we just feel defeated, and then we go back to diagnosing the person who caused us pain. I have done it too many times to count.
I also know that when I do this, iit is time to get back on track to what am I doing today to better my life. Focusing on them takes us down the wrong road, and doesn't help our recovery.
Damn I can say it so well...now to put my energy where my mouth is....

lillamy

Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Chronic Jerk Disease, doesn't matter.

You don't have to live with a person who does not treat you right. Goes for him, goes for you. And you are better off without him.

Learn2Live

Not really diagnosing anyone; that's not up to me. What I am doing is trying to understand what the hell just happened to me and how I got involved with such a person. It's time for me to come out of the shock, and time for me to stop blaming myself for everything that went wrong and accept that the other person in this relationship was actually responsible for a lot of the dysfunction.

EnglishGarden

That is a killer quote. It stirred up some memories, but also confirmed some boundaries. Thank you, L2L.

BlueSkies1

I have done that too...too many times to count. I think what I was trying to say was that focusing on the negative side of his behaviors didn't really help me move forward, as my focus was once again back on him instead of myself.
I could just be off my mark today, I'm feeling down myself.
I think for me, I need to finally write that list recalling the awful things that did transpire so that when I am feeling weak I can reference it. Concrete examples. Then when I self-doubt labeling him a narcissist, I don't have to think about the label, and just remember the action or words.

Absolutely you are not all to blame! I do this too! Like the title of my thread yesterday...accusing myself of not having backbone, or rather, pondering if that was a possibility. Searching for ways that I am flawed, that I am to blame, thinking to myself that I can't simply call him an alcoholic and whamo he gets all the blame...knowing it was a two-way street...looks like I have more work to do.

ZiggyB

I have done this so much myself... yes I agree that analyzing them forever keeps us from moving forward -- I wonder if this is something codependents do? At the same time I also think when you understand someone else's behavior and see it for the crazymaking thing it was, you can begin to absolve yourself of a lot of the shame and the guilt.

I guess when it comes down to it, you can realize things didn't work out for a reason, whatever that reason was, he was not the man for you...

lizatola

I just read that book a few months ago! Very eye opening, thanks for sharing that quote, I needed the reminder.

Learn2Live

I was completely blind-sided when AXBF walked out on me. I had NO IDEA what was happening or why. We had some problems but I thought they were minor and that the relationship could be repaired with a little bit of effort on both our parts. What I could not understand was that despite the alcoholism and addiction of his past, he was THE BEST boyfriend I had ever had (and I've had quite a few). We got along very well, and he was very attentive, and doting, for quite a long time. Then, something changed and it went from Feast to Famine. It was as if I no longer existed. I blamed myself, and everything about me. I took that blame and tried harder, but eventually sunk into a depression from it. I could come up with no explanation why he began acting this way, other than it was me.

My pDoc told me I need to learn how to accept that the other person is at least 50% responsible for what happens in the relationship, and to stop taking all the blame. And the psychologist told me that I need to learn how to identify these types of characters and their manipulation tactics, because I keep getting involved with folks who use and dump me. He also said I need to address MY issues that cause me to be attracted to this type in the first place. I am learning ALL these things reading these books. I am learning about me AND them at the same time. The books I am reading teach you how to identify these kind of people, and teach you what you need to do in therapy, etc, to deal with your own issues.

I don't care whether or not AXBF has some disorder, or what it might be called, but I do care about understanding the part he played. Because I already KNOW very well what I did and did not do to contribute to the problems. I already KNOW I am a caretaker. I do not believe I am "codependent" but I do know that I am emotionally DEpendent. AXBF obviously was NOT dependent on me for anything, as he was able to walk away and not look back. How a person could be so cold, cruel and callous after all the love I showed them, I will likely never know. But reading about Narcissism DOES explain how someone can do such a thing. Because they have NO EMPATHY. And it all makes so much sense to me now, because I look back on how he treated his children during his divorce from their mother, with NO understanding or empathy for what those kids were going through. In fact, he would say things that showed he was more concerned about HIMSELF and how they treated him, than he was for their well-being or their feelings.

I don't need to diagnose anyone, because the relationship is OVER. This IS part of me moving on. With every relationship and every difficulty, I choose to learn the lesson life has brought me. Because this is not the first time life has brought me this lesson. Other people simply do not think or feel or behave like I do. I was very naive for a very long time, and I remember coming to the realization for the first time in my life that I thought EVERYONE thought, felt and behaved like me. I had no idea that people were selfish, cruel, unkind, etc. I guess I lived a sheltered life. Now that I know people are that way, I need to learn how to identify them well before becoming involved with, or becoming attached to them.

LifeRecovery

I am reading Lundy Bancroft's "Why Does He Do That." I did not think I lived in an abusive situation, but am coming to realize that there were problems besides the alcohol use, and me, myself and I (which is the only thing I thought was a problem).

I spent the morning crying about how bad things could have been in my relationship....really, really understanding for the first time that it was just the tip of the iceburg, that he was just in the functional stage of alcoholism, just on the verbal side of abuse etc.

Regardless of where he was, I would have probably acted/reacted the same way. Downplayed the impact, stuffed it under the rug and tried to make it go away.

Different book, great quote and a good reminder.

I am SO grateful that I found recovery....it has stuck and it helps. I have hope now that I have learned the lessons I need to so the next go round I at least learn some different lessons.

Learn2Live

It was not until some time after I came to Sober Recovery that I truly understood what constitutes abuse. I also did not know at the time I was in them, that I had been in abusive relationships. And yes, you are right, there are ALWAYS problems besides the alcohol use. As they often say in AA, the alcoholism is just a SYMPTOM of a larger problem. This particular book I am reading now has a chapter on Narcisissm and addiction but I haven't gotten to that chapter yet. It will be interesting to read her perspective on this.

boy do I hear ya' on that one. I'm sorry you spent the morning crying but I'm glad you are grieving your loss, whatever that loss may be.

Me too.

Titanic

Maybe, the A's just at the extreme of narcissism which we all carry. AA's Big Book at page 60-62:

"[W]e are almost always in collision with something or somebody, even though our motives are good. Most people try to live by self-propulsion. Each person is like an actor who wants to run the whole show; is forever trying to arrange the lights, the ballet, the scenery and the rest of the players in his own way. If his arrangements would only stay put, if only people would do as he wished, the show would be great. Everybody, including himself, would be pleased. Life would be wonderful. In trying to make these arrangements our actor may sometimes be quite virtuous. He may be kind, considerate, patient, generous; even modest and self-sacrificing. On the other hand, he may be mean, egotistical, selfish and dishonest. But, as with most humans, he is more likely to have varied traits.

What usually happens? The show doesn't come off very well. He begins to think life doesn't treat him right. He decides to exert himself more. He becomes, on the next occasion, still more demanding or gracious, as the case may be. Still the play does not suit him. Admitting he may be somewhat at fault, he is sure that other people are more to blame. He becomes angry, indignant, self-pitying. What is his basic trouble? Is he not really a self-seeker even when trying to be kind? Is he not a victim of the delusion that he can wrest satisfaction and happiness out of this world if he only manages well? Is it not evident to all the rest of the players that these are the things he wants? And do not his actions make each of them wish to retaliate, snatching all they can get out of the show? Is he not, even in his best moments, a producer of confusion rather than harmony?

Our actor is self-centered - ego-centric, as people like to call it nowadays. He is like the retired business man who lolls in the Florida sunshine in the winter complaining of the sad state of the nation; the minister who sighs over the sins of the twentieth century; politicians and reformers who are sure all would be Utopia if the rest of the world would only behave; the outlaw safe cracker who thinks society has wronged him; and the alcoholic who has lost all and is locked up. Whatever our protestations, are not most of us concerned with ourselves, our resentments, or our self-pity?

Selfishness - self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles. Driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity, we step on the toes of our fellows and they retaliate. Sometimes they hurt us, seemingly without provocation, but we invariably find that at some time in the past we have made decisions based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt.

So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves, and the alcoholic is an extreme example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn't think so." The bolded text is not bolded in the BB.

Learn2Live

I'm sorry, Titanic, but I am missing the point of your post apparently. I don't understand what you are trying to say. Please elaborate for me.

Learn2Live

Dandylion, your post reminds me of something else I read about people with narcissism, and that is they tend to value their jobs and their children over their relationship with their spouse or significant other. I wonder if you also sensed this, because I did.

Learn2Live

This book also has a chapter on boundaries and she describes me pretty well. She says:

Titanic

Sorta the same direction as that backbone thread went, L2L. The one about who has more backbone, As or "codies"?

Just that even we recovering "codies" have to watch out for the self-will thing because it's the same issue in our Al-Anon Steps (especially 3 & 11) ... even when we have good motives etc.

Self-will run riot is everyone's enemy. That's all. Love your posts!