New Member looking for advice re daughter
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 7
New Member looking for advice re daughter
I found this site yesterday and have been reading as much as I can. My 21 y/o daughter called us in hysterics from jail early Saturday AM. She did not know how she got there or why. She is being charged with a DUI and will appear in court in 2 weeks. She is a 4th year college student and has had a few alcohol related incidents. Seemed like typical college behavior at the time. Last fall she had her 2nd minor in possession and lost her license for 90 days due to a mistake when the paperwork was filed. The wrong box was checked - no car was involved. It seemed to us that she had learned a lesson after that and had made positive changes in her lifestyle. Hubby and I viewed it as a good paperwork mistake. All seemed well.
When we went to see her on Saturday we learned that she and her boyfriend have been having problems due to her drinking over the summer. It was a shock to us as we are very close and see them every couple of weeks. We own the vehicle she drives, pay her insurance, her college and part of her living expenses.
We have taken away her car/insurance. That part was easy because we had a written agreement that any alcohol infraction involving the car meant she lost the right to have our car. Today I suggested she call the college substance abuse office and make an appointment which I'm not sure will happen. She is focused on "fixing/fighting" the DUI charge by finding an attorney. We have told her that is her choice but we will not pay for it. I guess I am more concerned with the bigger picture of blackout drinking and the extent of her drinking problem. We are all so lucky that she didn't hurt anyone or herself.
I have read a lot in the last 2 days in this forum about enabling... and am mainly looking for guidance/support as to proceed. I am heartbroken, angry, scared and worried. She lives 2 hours away. She is upset, very sorry, etc. but seems to think she can just quit drinking but we've been down that road before. My gut feeling is that she needs professional help.
I had blackouts myself back in college, cheated on my husband (then boyfriend) and that was my rock bottom. Lucky for me, he forgave me, then I forgave myself and we have been happily married for almost 30 years. Maybe the DUI will be her wake-up call.
Of course we would love to swoop in and fix this all for her but reality is that she needs to do it. With some guidance/support - but how much and how to go about it? Questions, questions. Thanks for reading this.
When we went to see her on Saturday we learned that she and her boyfriend have been having problems due to her drinking over the summer. It was a shock to us as we are very close and see them every couple of weeks. We own the vehicle she drives, pay her insurance, her college and part of her living expenses.
We have taken away her car/insurance. That part was easy because we had a written agreement that any alcohol infraction involving the car meant she lost the right to have our car. Today I suggested she call the college substance abuse office and make an appointment which I'm not sure will happen. She is focused on "fixing/fighting" the DUI charge by finding an attorney. We have told her that is her choice but we will not pay for it. I guess I am more concerned with the bigger picture of blackout drinking and the extent of her drinking problem. We are all so lucky that she didn't hurt anyone or herself.
I have read a lot in the last 2 days in this forum about enabling... and am mainly looking for guidance/support as to proceed. I am heartbroken, angry, scared and worried. She lives 2 hours away. She is upset, very sorry, etc. but seems to think she can just quit drinking but we've been down that road before. My gut feeling is that she needs professional help.
I had blackouts myself back in college, cheated on my husband (then boyfriend) and that was my rock bottom. Lucky for me, he forgave me, then I forgave myself and we have been happily married for almost 30 years. Maybe the DUI will be her wake-up call.
Of course we would love to swoop in and fix this all for her but reality is that she needs to do it. With some guidance/support - but how much and how to go about it? Questions, questions. Thanks for reading this.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 378
I would start with reading Melody Beattie's book "Codependent No More." For me, it's the "bible" of recovery for a family!
I think you're very correct to not pay for a lawyer or make any attempt to fix this for her. She's lucky she ended up in jail and not a morgue from a car accident. That's the sad truth. Sending you a hug, know how hard this is!
I think you're very correct to not pay for a lawyer or make any attempt to fix this for her. She's lucky she ended up in jail and not a morgue from a car accident. That's the sad truth. Sending you a hug, know how hard this is!
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Welcome to the SR family!
I'm glad you found us, but sorry for the reason that brought you here. Please continue your reading and feel free to post/vent as often as needed. We are here to support you.
I suggest Al anon meetings for face-to-face support in your local community. Alanon helped me build a tool box of tools to help me define my boundaries, release control of situations that were not my responsibility and how to take better care of myself.
How much to help her?
A simple guideline would be to ask yourself if it is something she can do for herself. If it is, then allow her the dignity to handle it herself. That means allowing her to make mistakes and learn valuable lessons along the way.
Stick around, we understand!
I'm glad you found us, but sorry for the reason that brought you here. Please continue your reading and feel free to post/vent as often as needed. We are here to support you.
I suggest Al anon meetings for face-to-face support in your local community. Alanon helped me build a tool box of tools to help me define my boundaries, release control of situations that were not my responsibility and how to take better care of myself.
How much to help her?
A simple guideline would be to ask yourself if it is something she can do for herself. If it is, then allow her the dignity to handle it herself. That means allowing her to make mistakes and learn valuable lessons along the way.
Stick around, we understand!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: where the streets have no name
Posts: 1,078
stamdl
Thank you for sharing your story.
Sorry to hear about your daughter.
I am sure many on this forum gained hope and inspiration in hearing about your success in recovery and success in family staying together. We do not very often hear success stories.
You daughter needs to find a way out of alcohol and get her life back.
Perhaps if you tell her about your own triumph she will gain insight and strength.
Thank you for sharing your story.
Sorry to hear about your daughter.
I am sure many on this forum gained hope and inspiration in hearing about your success in recovery and success in family staying together. We do not very often hear success stories.
You daughter needs to find a way out of alcohol and get her life back.
Perhaps if you tell her about your own triumph she will gain insight and strength.
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
Hi stamdl,
It does sound as though your daughter could use some professional support. The sad news is.....that's her job. It's all up to her to seek it out and set it up.
One of the posts that helped Mr. HG and me to understand how NOT to enable his son (my stepson) anymore was this:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html
Especially for my husband, the natural instinct was to take care of his adult son and fix everything. But we finally decided the best thing for him was to allow him, as an adult with dignity and free will, to figure this out for himself. We let him know that we love him, but we will not pay for anything anymore, and his decisions about drinking or recovery are entirely his to make....or not.
Make yourself at home here! HG
It does sound as though your daughter could use some professional support. The sad news is.....that's her job. It's all up to her to seek it out and set it up.
One of the posts that helped Mr. HG and me to understand how NOT to enable his son (my stepson) anymore was this:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html
Especially for my husband, the natural instinct was to take care of his adult son and fix everything. But we finally decided the best thing for him was to allow him, as an adult with dignity and free will, to figure this out for himself. We let him know that we love him, but we will not pay for anything anymore, and his decisions about drinking or recovery are entirely his to make....or not.
Make yourself at home here! HG
Iceberg Ahead!
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Out at Sea
Posts: 1,177
For a newbie, you demonstrate a lot of strength and wisdom in confronting this. You're on the right track. Talk to her about as much of your experience as you're comfortable sharing. Just the experience. No so's or therefore's. You are not alone on this path dear!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 7
I just typed a long reply and accidentally erased it... (argh).
Thanks so much to each of you for your responses. I've downloaded the Beattie book and will look into Al-Anon WishingWell and Pelican. The thread that you referred to hydrogirl was one of the 1st things I read on this site, and it was so helpful to affirm that taking the easy route is not the right option anymore.
The last few days have brought back a lot of guilt/shame over my own college alcohol experiences, and I have had a hard time deciding what is appropriate to share with my daughter. Thank you Titanic and steve11694 for your advice.
I've been through extensive counseling for clinical depression. I know now that I used alcohol to self medicate heavily in college and sparingly at other times in my adult life. So, I've learned a lot in the last 10 years that could have made a difference years ago. But I also need to be careful to stay healthy.
My game plan is to read and research. I'm going next week for an overnight visit at my daughter's. I'm hopeful that enough time will have passed so that we can talk about what is happening with her in a productive way. She hasn't been able to talk yet without breaking down. She feels she has let everyone down and while I know that is normal I'm hoping to move her to seeing that she is letting herself down most of all. Also anxious to talk with her boyfriend who is feeling tremendous guilt. My main goal is get her to at least commit to a professional assessment of her drinking. Fingers crossed.
Thanks again to each of you...
Thanks so much to each of you for your responses. I've downloaded the Beattie book and will look into Al-Anon WishingWell and Pelican. The thread that you referred to hydrogirl was one of the 1st things I read on this site, and it was so helpful to affirm that taking the easy route is not the right option anymore.
The last few days have brought back a lot of guilt/shame over my own college alcohol experiences, and I have had a hard time deciding what is appropriate to share with my daughter. Thank you Titanic and steve11694 for your advice.
I've been through extensive counseling for clinical depression. I know now that I used alcohol to self medicate heavily in college and sparingly at other times in my adult life. So, I've learned a lot in the last 10 years that could have made a difference years ago. But I also need to be careful to stay healthy.
My game plan is to read and research. I'm going next week for an overnight visit at my daughter's. I'm hopeful that enough time will have passed so that we can talk about what is happening with her in a productive way. She hasn't been able to talk yet without breaking down. She feels she has let everyone down and while I know that is normal I'm hoping to move her to seeing that she is letting herself down most of all. Also anxious to talk with her boyfriend who is feeling tremendous guilt. My main goal is get her to at least commit to a professional assessment of her drinking. Fingers crossed.
Thanks again to each of you...
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 7
Steve11694 and Titanic- you are absolutely correct. Thank you!
Have had a very difficult week with relatives visiting in the area, trying to get a handle on my daughter's state of mind via phone/text and staying on the same page with my husband. United we stand... Divided we fall. He has always had a hard time saying no to her. Already he is starting to think we should hire an attny... How is she going to afford a car/insurance post DUI... Etc. I'm saying no, no, no. All week I've been fighting this horrible feeling of dread that I've never felt before. Can't explain it.
We decided it would be best to change some plans so that I could come and see our daughter today. She and I had a long talk this afternoon. Her boyfriend joined us for dinner and then afterward the 3 of us talked. Long story short - she is in denial about her drinking. I can just quit...not affecting her bf that much... Too busy to call for a counseling appt... Bf says drinking has been their only problem right from the start. He doesn't trust her to go out without him and of course feels he has to protect her. While he is saying this she listens without a word while he totally contradicts what she told me earlier. She almost seems bored. She has lied to us about issues at school. DUI circumstances keep shifting. Red flags everywhere. My head hurts.
Home I go tomorrow morning knowing that I've given it my best shot. I hope that will be of some comfort in the weeks ahead. And, mostly I hope she can find her way back.
Detach with love feels like detach with fear to me. Is it because she is my daughter and not my spouse?
Have had a very difficult week with relatives visiting in the area, trying to get a handle on my daughter's state of mind via phone/text and staying on the same page with my husband. United we stand... Divided we fall. He has always had a hard time saying no to her. Already he is starting to think we should hire an attny... How is she going to afford a car/insurance post DUI... Etc. I'm saying no, no, no. All week I've been fighting this horrible feeling of dread that I've never felt before. Can't explain it.
We decided it would be best to change some plans so that I could come and see our daughter today. She and I had a long talk this afternoon. Her boyfriend joined us for dinner and then afterward the 3 of us talked. Long story short - she is in denial about her drinking. I can just quit...not affecting her bf that much... Too busy to call for a counseling appt... Bf says drinking has been their only problem right from the start. He doesn't trust her to go out without him and of course feels he has to protect her. While he is saying this she listens without a word while he totally contradicts what she told me earlier. She almost seems bored. She has lied to us about issues at school. DUI circumstances keep shifting. Red flags everywhere. My head hurts.
Home I go tomorrow morning knowing that I've given it my best shot. I hope that will be of some comfort in the weeks ahead. And, mostly I hope she can find her way back.
Detach with love feels like detach with fear to me. Is it because she is my daughter and not my spouse?
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
Detach with love feels like detach with fear to me. Is it because she is my daughter and not my spouse?
Although the actions we take to stop enabling are very much the same....the feelings can be oh so different depending on the relationship.
Plus, children always have the ability to pull at our heart strings!
As parents, our job is not to take care of them for the rest of their lives and clean up all their messes. Our job is to raise them to be competent, self-sufficient, adults capable of contributing to society. If we always fix their mistakes, they can never learn how to deal with life on their own. At some point they will have to face life alone--without us.
Oh, and that denial part.....classic in an active alcoholic to deflect the issue and claim that 'everyone is just overreacting'.
If and when she is allowed to feel the full consequences of her drinking, then maybe she will decide that she really needs help. As long as she has an enabler (parent or boyfriend), she is protected from the consequences. Unfortunately, we have no more control over our fellow enablers than we do the alcoholic--so her boyfriend will have to come to this conclusion on his own as well.
Stay strong! Post here whenever you need to vent. We care and we understand!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Stamdl,
Welcome to the forum.
You have gotten great information from the above posters and I would only add that it would be very productive if you could get the boyfriend and your husband to join you in the alanon and informational route that you are on.
Hovering, helicoptering and putting out the fires will not help her to see the reality and destruction of the drinking on her life.
I put my children through college and I retained a great deal of control because I considered the huge amount of money sacrificed an "investment" in their future and that I had a right to speak into their lives. Now that they are grown and independent they do not even let me go there even a little bit
Fortunately I had them in a lot of counseling as kids for their A dad so they are very rooted and grounded in healthy relationships ... a miracle considering their DNA and heritage soaked in addiction.
We try no to give direct advice on here (although it happens) but your own college experience and black outs do have the very real possibility of being heritable. Personally I think I would share my story but would edit it and not include all the details (they are not necessary except to say that they are regrets you have carried throughout your adult life).
There is another thread on here called "The Awakening" and it talks about how at certain points we begin to "see life" with a new pair of glasses and get an enlightenment. In AA we call this "living life on lifes terms".
You have that "knowing and insight" instinctively for your daughter because you have already lived it and as parents we want to pass on our wisdom and experience. While your daughter listened to you about sticking her hand on a hot stove or crossing a street when a car is coming she is NOT going to snap out of denial over alcohol just becuase you share your story... but it could spark a glimmer and be a start... maybe.
I am a control freak along with being codie and I don't mind playing hardball with my kids if I think it is good medicine and if you are financially involved in her education I probably would insist on an evaluation and treatment plan with the explanation that it will help with the court and there will never be a return of the car without it.
That being said she will probably bs the evaluator and minimize her drinking and not take anything the counselor says...
IT is most likely that she will court ordered into AA and required to stay abstinent from alcohol during a term of probation.
The battle is in her head and heart and right now alcohol remains her friend... and all you can do is find out all you can about codependency and alcholism.
Welcome to the forum.
You have gotten great information from the above posters and I would only add that it would be very productive if you could get the boyfriend and your husband to join you in the alanon and informational route that you are on.
Hovering, helicoptering and putting out the fires will not help her to see the reality and destruction of the drinking on her life.
I put my children through college and I retained a great deal of control because I considered the huge amount of money sacrificed an "investment" in their future and that I had a right to speak into their lives. Now that they are grown and independent they do not even let me go there even a little bit
Fortunately I had them in a lot of counseling as kids for their A dad so they are very rooted and grounded in healthy relationships ... a miracle considering their DNA and heritage soaked in addiction.
We try no to give direct advice on here (although it happens) but your own college experience and black outs do have the very real possibility of being heritable. Personally I think I would share my story but would edit it and not include all the details (they are not necessary except to say that they are regrets you have carried throughout your adult life).
There is another thread on here called "The Awakening" and it talks about how at certain points we begin to "see life" with a new pair of glasses and get an enlightenment. In AA we call this "living life on lifes terms".
You have that "knowing and insight" instinctively for your daughter because you have already lived it and as parents we want to pass on our wisdom and experience. While your daughter listened to you about sticking her hand on a hot stove or crossing a street when a car is coming she is NOT going to snap out of denial over alcohol just becuase you share your story... but it could spark a glimmer and be a start... maybe.
I am a control freak along with being codie and I don't mind playing hardball with my kids if I think it is good medicine and if you are financially involved in her education I probably would insist on an evaluation and treatment plan with the explanation that it will help with the court and there will never be a return of the car without it.
That being said she will probably bs the evaluator and minimize her drinking and not take anything the counselor says...
IT is most likely that she will court ordered into AA and required to stay abstinent from alcohol during a term of probation.
The battle is in her head and heart and right now alcohol remains her friend... and all you can do is find out all you can about codependency and alcholism.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 7
I told her about my blackouts and how they impacted my relationship with her dad. Even the cheating. And how hard it was to forgive myself long after. After her boyfriend joined I talked about it again after hearing him share his feelings as I posted before.
My intent for this visit was to
- get more information about her drinking history, habits, blackout pattern
- get a sense of her current state of mind
- hear bf side of things
- encourage her to seek professional help and possible benefits she could gain. Not many people can do it alone. We will pay for treatment. Not to fix the DUI.
- to reiterate that she is not a bad person, has so much going for her and Is surrounded by people who love her.
So, mission accomplished. Even if it doesnt change her mind it helps me. I can go home and work on my plan. Not easy I know but I'll figure it out as it all unfolds.
Might add that she will never be allowed to have a car that we own. That I can control.
I told her that going forward she is in charge. She can share with us as she sees fit. If she needs our help ask. I'm not going to threaten or nag
My intent for this visit was to
- get more information about her drinking history, habits, blackout pattern
- get a sense of her current state of mind
- hear bf side of things
- encourage her to seek professional help and possible benefits she could gain. Not many people can do it alone. We will pay for treatment. Not to fix the DUI.
- to reiterate that she is not a bad person, has so much going for her and Is surrounded by people who love her.
So, mission accomplished. Even if it doesnt change her mind it helps me. I can go home and work on my plan. Not easy I know but I'll figure it out as it all unfolds.
Might add that she will never be allowed to have a car that we own. That I can control.
I told her that going forward she is in charge. She can share with us as she sees fit. If she needs our help ask. I'm not going to threaten or nag
Iceberg Ahead!
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Out at Sea
Posts: 1,177
Great going!! She deserved to know that this thing was in her family and what chaos it can cause. You heard from the horse's own mouth (denial), so now you can be stronger in your detachment with love. Sounds like you put the message out there, and then let it go!
To be prepared (should she ask for help in the future), read some Al-Anon literature and threads here on SR as to healthy "helping" boundaries. You'll have options in your head and be shored up when that day comes ... and it will.
To be prepared (should she ask for help in the future), read some Al-Anon literature and threads here on SR as to healthy "helping" boundaries. You'll have options in your head and be shored up when that day comes ... and it will.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 7
I picked up a copy of the Codependent No More workbook and a book called Almost Alcoholic before I left the city this morning. I had been looking for a book that my daughter might find helpful on Amazon all week, now that I'm almost finished with it I'm going to order her a copy. She should see herself in some of the case studies.
Feeling like I need to progress from reading to a more active approach this week. Also get back to eating real food, exercising and a better sleep pattern.
I live in a rural area. It looks like my closest options for Al-Anon meetings are an hour away. Have decided to leave that on the back burner for now.
Found out that my MIL and husband are having major financial troubles and have to sell their home to pay off line of credit. Marriage on the rocks. Have been hiding it from everyone except my RASIL who called my husband yesterday. What a week.
Took a nice nap and am ready to give my 16 year old son my full attention tonight. Bring on the Wii!
I can't tell you how much strength I have gathered from this board in the last 6 days. Thanks so so much.
Feeling like I need to progress from reading to a more active approach this week. Also get back to eating real food, exercising and a better sleep pattern.
I live in a rural area. It looks like my closest options for Al-Anon meetings are an hour away. Have decided to leave that on the back burner for now.
Found out that my MIL and husband are having major financial troubles and have to sell their home to pay off line of credit. Marriage on the rocks. Have been hiding it from everyone except my RASIL who called my husband yesterday. What a week.
Took a nice nap and am ready to give my 16 year old son my full attention tonight. Bring on the Wii!
I can't tell you how much strength I have gathered from this board in the last 6 days. Thanks so so much.
Iceberg Ahead!
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Out at Sea
Posts: 1,177
Get and read books for YOU! The chances that they'll read any book we pick up for them are slim to none. Been there, done & seen that. Read Codependent No More. You'll see yourself! Don't preoccupy yourself with how she will finally realize what she is and what her path to recovery should be.
Order yourself some Al-Anon material on their online store. Listen to and read the free stuff on their website. Participate in the weekly online chat meeting! Figure out your program and path; not hers. That's what has the best chance of making things better for everyone.
Hope you keep resding, posting and sharing here! Peace.
Order yourself some Al-Anon material on their online store. Listen to and read the free stuff on their website. Participate in the weekly online chat meeting! Figure out your program and path; not hers. That's what has the best chance of making things better for everyone.
Hope you keep resding, posting and sharing here! Peace.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 7
Titanic - I get what you are saying, and thank you~! Was not aware of the online chat meeting option but that would work for me.
Our parenting philosophy has always been to give the kids some rope and adjust the length of the rope based upon how they handle their new found independence. It has worked very well for us. I do not enjoy a lot of drama or conflict. Respect and trust are earned and it goes both ways.
I probably see my daughter once a month during the school year. We talk/text a few times a week. During the summer she's been home (we live on a lake) every other weekend with her bf. She turned 21 mid-July. Before that we never allowed her to drink at our home. She and I went on a 10 day trip together at the end of July. No signs of problems with handling alcohol.
So, the last week has been a shock. To her dad and I, to my close family and friends... the common reaction has been HUH? Today is the first day that I don't feel completely overwhelmed, scared and borderline not sane. Is there more to come... sure. Is it going to be easy... no. But I'm over the panic and second guessing everything I thought I knew.
I'm reading Beattie and will work daily through her workbook. But I'm getting back to my life, not my daughters this week. I'm at peace with that. When she calls, I'll be ready.
Thanks again to all who have posted this week.
Our parenting philosophy has always been to give the kids some rope and adjust the length of the rope based upon how they handle their new found independence. It has worked very well for us. I do not enjoy a lot of drama or conflict. Respect and trust are earned and it goes both ways.
I probably see my daughter once a month during the school year. We talk/text a few times a week. During the summer she's been home (we live on a lake) every other weekend with her bf. She turned 21 mid-July. Before that we never allowed her to drink at our home. She and I went on a 10 day trip together at the end of July. No signs of problems with handling alcohol.
So, the last week has been a shock. To her dad and I, to my close family and friends... the common reaction has been HUH? Today is the first day that I don't feel completely overwhelmed, scared and borderline not sane. Is there more to come... sure. Is it going to be easy... no. But I'm over the panic and second guessing everything I thought I knew.
I'm reading Beattie and will work daily through her workbook. But I'm getting back to my life, not my daughters this week. I'm at peace with that. When she calls, I'll be ready.
Thanks again to all who have posted this week.
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