Dropping the rope....
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Dropping the rope....
So RAW and I have been going back and forth in a tug of war for a while, keeping score and making a list of the other's transgressions because that's a nice mature way to cover up your own mistakes, right? lol
Yesterday I sent her a long note of apology and acknowledged that I have been guilty of oing to her exactly the sort of things she had done that I did not like.
I promised to work on me more and worry about what she does less. I wasn't just repeating all of the alanonic slogans... they are really making sense to me and helping me.
It was a nice note. Some others I have sent lately were more geared toward letting her know I was right and she was wrong. I'm a persuasive writer and good at constructing a logically sound argument. ...they basically made her feel like crap. Of course making someone feel like crap tends to make them want to hit back, not hug you.
So we've been playing tug of war for months, this past week we had some great talks and after sending the nice note I was proud of myself. Oh how I love Pride, it's like running up to God and saying KICK ME!
So wife just unloads all over me last night. She had been reading everything I posted here from the first angry, frightened and judgmental rant to the more understanding "OH crap, maybe I need to work on me" posts that came later. She was hurt by my initial reaction to her taking a drink last week and hurt by all the suggestions that she will never be a good wife or mother or that she does not care about our son. She was hurting and she unloaded and I felt like crap.
...and then it started. I could feel the emotions building:
- how can you say all of that after I have been apologizing and forgiving
- how can you be so angry with me for not being understanding enough about what you did.... I am not bashing you for what you did but you have the gall to sit here and bash me for not being happy about it?
- Here I am working so hard and just nothing is good enough, we had all these great talks and I am doing everything you want and really working on things and you want to walk in here and chew me out and say all those horrible things to me? WTF!
Then a funny thing happened. Instead of correcting the injustice and pointing out that I was doing right and she was doing wrong....
I apologized. I told her I was so sorry she was hurt and that I really hoped her angry words did not refect how she really feels and that I was sad.
I did not apologize for my feelings or for the struggle I have had to reconcile my love for my wife with my fear for her disease. I did not apologize for coming here to seek help and understanding. I did not justify my desire or need to deal with those emotions my way or feel what I need to feel. I did not volunteer to stop coming here.
But I remembered what my counselor said about tug of war. Drop the rope. The other guy then has to stop tugging or they fall on their ass.
It was not easy. I felt wronged. I was hurt. ...but this back and forth has been stupid and petty and I am sick of it. I dropped the rope and resorted to kindness and undrstanding and empathy instead of lashing out.... and I meant it, it wasn't so that I can rub her face in 'see, you were awful and I am a saint'. It was... y'know, I am not worried about what you do or did or will do. I regret things I've done, I'm trying to do better and I'm more interested in building our marriage than winning this fight.
It worked. An angry response would have gotten another one, whether I was right or wrong. It's hard to take another shot at someone who could have just hit you back but instead told you that they are sorry you were upset enough to take a shot at them.
My wife knows how sensitive I am about being run over due to past issues of doormatitis and she knew it cost me something and was a risk for me to stick my chin out.
...maybe that will help someone else today. What would you really lose if instead of setting your spouse straight, you show grace and restraint when you have every right to do otherwise.
Today is a good day. Wife is sober, we are closer, I am less stressed and more at peace.
Yesterday I sent her a long note of apology and acknowledged that I have been guilty of oing to her exactly the sort of things she had done that I did not like.
I promised to work on me more and worry about what she does less. I wasn't just repeating all of the alanonic slogans... they are really making sense to me and helping me.
It was a nice note. Some others I have sent lately were more geared toward letting her know I was right and she was wrong. I'm a persuasive writer and good at constructing a logically sound argument. ...they basically made her feel like crap. Of course making someone feel like crap tends to make them want to hit back, not hug you.
So we've been playing tug of war for months, this past week we had some great talks and after sending the nice note I was proud of myself. Oh how I love Pride, it's like running up to God and saying KICK ME!
So wife just unloads all over me last night. She had been reading everything I posted here from the first angry, frightened and judgmental rant to the more understanding "OH crap, maybe I need to work on me" posts that came later. She was hurt by my initial reaction to her taking a drink last week and hurt by all the suggestions that she will never be a good wife or mother or that she does not care about our son. She was hurting and she unloaded and I felt like crap.
...and then it started. I could feel the emotions building:
- how can you say all of that after I have been apologizing and forgiving
- how can you be so angry with me for not being understanding enough about what you did.... I am not bashing you for what you did but you have the gall to sit here and bash me for not being happy about it?
- Here I am working so hard and just nothing is good enough, we had all these great talks and I am doing everything you want and really working on things and you want to walk in here and chew me out and say all those horrible things to me? WTF!
Then a funny thing happened. Instead of correcting the injustice and pointing out that I was doing right and she was doing wrong....
I apologized. I told her I was so sorry she was hurt and that I really hoped her angry words did not refect how she really feels and that I was sad.
I did not apologize for my feelings or for the struggle I have had to reconcile my love for my wife with my fear for her disease. I did not apologize for coming here to seek help and understanding. I did not justify my desire or need to deal with those emotions my way or feel what I need to feel. I did not volunteer to stop coming here.
But I remembered what my counselor said about tug of war. Drop the rope. The other guy then has to stop tugging or they fall on their ass.
It was not easy. I felt wronged. I was hurt. ...but this back and forth has been stupid and petty and I am sick of it. I dropped the rope and resorted to kindness and undrstanding and empathy instead of lashing out.... and I meant it, it wasn't so that I can rub her face in 'see, you were awful and I am a saint'. It was... y'know, I am not worried about what you do or did or will do. I regret things I've done, I'm trying to do better and I'm more interested in building our marriage than winning this fight.
It worked. An angry response would have gotten another one, whether I was right or wrong. It's hard to take another shot at someone who could have just hit you back but instead told you that they are sorry you were upset enough to take a shot at them.
My wife knows how sensitive I am about being run over due to past issues of doormatitis and she knew it cost me something and was a risk for me to stick my chin out.
...maybe that will help someone else today. What would you really lose if instead of setting your spouse straight, you show grace and restraint when you have every right to do otherwise.
Today is a good day. Wife is sober, we are closer, I am less stressed and more at peace.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,163
I really like "the drop the rope" theory.
I like the "they fall on their ass" theory even more.
A mental picture comes into focus, and I envision a certain client falling in a tub of well deserved poo.......
I often find the best life advice here.
I like the "they fall on their ass" theory even more.
A mental picture comes into focus, and I envision a certain client falling in a tub of well deserved poo.......
I often find the best life advice here.
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Location: Atlanta
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((PohsFriend)) - Wow, you did great! I know the tug-of-war stuff, though with my young niece it was often "f you" fights. After I'd been on here for a while, I finally just did not respond to her angry and mean words. I walked away. It basically stunned her, and the first couple times she kept yelling but now? We rarely argue and when we do, I remain calm and end it quick.
I like the image of the tug-of-war, though - keep pulling and fall on your a$$
My niece found out it was no fun arguing when you're the only one yelling!
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
I like the image of the tug-of-war, though - keep pulling and fall on your a$$
My niece found out it was no fun arguing when you're the only one yelling!Hugs and prayers,
Amy
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Originally Posted by marie1960 
I really like "the drop the rope" theory.
I like the "they fall on their ass" theory even more.
I like the "they fall on their ass" theory even more.
I often find the best life advice here.
Sounds like you really had your wits about you PohsFriend. Well done.
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Good for you.
Dropping the rope is a wise, wise move.
I've had reason to revisit that idea lately, too.
My AXH broke up with his latest girlfriend and so has nobody to fight with -- so he picks fights with me.
So I'm back to the behavior I started out with right after leaving him. When he contacts me, I read his e-mail, and then I ask myself: Is there a question? Is the question regarding the kids? Do I need to answer it? If the answer is no -- I just ignore it.
Takes two to tango. And fight.
Dropping the rope is a wise, wise move.
I've had reason to revisit that idea lately, too.
My AXH broke up with his latest girlfriend and so has nobody to fight with -- so he picks fights with me.
So I'm back to the behavior I started out with right after leaving him. When he contacts me, I read his e-mail, and then I ask myself: Is there a question? Is the question regarding the kids? Do I need to answer it? If the answer is no -- I just ignore it.
Takes two to tango. And fight.
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Just a thought that you might want to explore boundary work . . .I don't understand why you would encourage her to read your private forum posts . . .I would suspect you might have an ulterior motive in doing so . . .it seems manipulative on your part and "not good boundaries" on her part . . .
I wish you would take the advice to "get out of your head" - stop thinking about this for awhile . . .focus on yourself and your teen daughter . . .work, cook, eat, have fun, do your hobbies, exercise, go for walks, go to meetings, whatever . . .just stop thinking and plotting so much . . . it really FEELS compulsive. Takes one to know one . . .
I wish you would take the advice to "get out of your head" - stop thinking about this for awhile . . .focus on yourself and your teen daughter . . .work, cook, eat, have fun, do your hobbies, exercise, go for walks, go to meetings, whatever . . .just stop thinking and plotting so much . . . it really FEELS compulsive. Takes one to know one . . .
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Have you considered marriage counseling? It sounds like you have a lot of issues to work through. Personally I am not one who can cope with lots of conflict in my personal life. I'm glad everything got resolved to your satisfaction though.
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Taped to my computer screen at my office, and burned into memory at this point, is the following quote:
"The first few times we make the choice to be peaceful rather than right, it feels like denial. But with practice it will become the preferred choice."
It really is better to let it go. Good job!
~T
"The first few times we make the choice to be peaceful rather than right, it feels like denial. But with practice it will become the preferred choice."
It really is better to let it go. Good job!
~T
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Originally Posted by seek
Just a thought that you might want to explore boundary work . . .I don't understand why you would encourage her to read your private forum posts . . .I would suspect you might have an ulterior motive in doing so . . .it seems manipulative on your part and "not good boundaries" on her part . . .
I wish you would take the advice to "get out of your head" - stop thinking about this for awhile . . .focus on yourself and your teen daughter . . .work, cook, eat, have fun, do your hobbies, exercise, go for walks, go to meetings, whatever . . .just stop thinking and plotting so much . . . it really FEELS compulsive. Takes one to know one . . .
I wish you would take the advice to "get out of your head" - stop thinking about this for awhile . . .focus on yourself and your teen daughter . . .work, cook, eat, have fun, do your hobbies, exercise, go for walks, go to meetings, whatever . . .just stop thinking and plotting so much . . . it really FEELS compulsive. Takes one to know one . . .
That's why I was so angry.
But I took a breath and and tried as hard as I could not to react to that.
Wasn't perfect... I was so frustrated and wanted to shout but I am glad I didn't. I really don't think she meant to cut me off from something that was helping - She knows it was dumb to read it, two weeks ago her comments about a pregnant woman having a drink would have been just as harsh as the ones she read but I'm sure it was a tough read and I am sorry she read it.
So I learn and she learns.... It was a tough week and it shook us up. I was clear that if she started drinking then (insert horror story here) but I thought an alcoholic could choose never to take that first sip. ...and so did she for that matter. But I think the rollercoaster has stopped for now and hopefully we can stick to the kiddie rides for a while. You are right, I do obsess until I figure things out when under extreme stress... it isn't my normal state and I am working on it. Time to go get some exercise :-)
Today is a good day. Wife is sober, I am happier, sun is shining....
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Originally Posted by ZiggyB
Have you considered marriage counseling? It sounds like you have a lot of issues to work through. Personally I am not one who can cope with lots of conflict in my personal life. I'm glad everything got resolved to your satisfaction though.
...Dropping the rope restored some peace, now maybe we can both do a better job of it. It was a realllly bad week.
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The "drop the rope" reaction is one I will hold onto when my RAH returns home after his inpatient treatment stay. I have a feeling I will need to muster ALOT of restraint in myself! Thank you for your posts!
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Drop the rope. "Would you rather be right or happy?" as we say. Happy, for sure.
But on what matters involving my A must I insist on being right? Otherwise, don't I become the receptacle of "Honey do this and that and some more"?
But on what matters involving my A must I insist on being right? Otherwise, don't I become the receptacle of "Honey do this and that and some more"?
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Dropping the rope analogy works if the other person is in recovery. If you both have recovery and the relationship as priorities. Perhaps not such a great move with an active addict. I did a lot of giving in, keeping quiet, and keeping the peace - much to my detriment. If has been hard reading this thread - but my experience is with active addiction.
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I do sense that "dropping the rope" is not all that is in play here . . .it seems too calculated somehow . . .
I understand how much pressure you might feel to want things to turn out a certain way because the stakes are high (I think that is the piece that causes so much anguish for the person who cannot control the alcoholic . . .we can project into the future and play out all kinds of worse-case scenarios . . .and then react to our projections and traumatize ourselves day and night).
I am not minimizing your pain - alcoholism is not for the faint of heart . . .it is truly a horrible disease and when you love someone who is not trustworthy on some level, it can be terrifying . . .because you have hooked your happiness onto their balloon and we all know how that can go . . .
The solution to "the problem" is not easy - there are spiritual challenges, emotional challenges, practical challenges . . .every day could be a total crap shoot.
I personally am a nervous type and can't take too much of it . . .I don't even have to live with it and it makes me a nervous wreck. It permeates all aspects of my life and challenges all of my values and beliefs.
I feel you are in survival mode . . .in crisis, really . . .it would be nice if you can get some real support, wherever you can find it. Your feelings are important . . . you might be feeling depressed, scared, angry, all-of-the-above . . .and if you are working too, taking care of a teen, and preparing for a new baby, your plate is more than full.
Take good care of yourself. You are the only one of you you have.
I understand how much pressure you might feel to want things to turn out a certain way because the stakes are high (I think that is the piece that causes so much anguish for the person who cannot control the alcoholic . . .we can project into the future and play out all kinds of worse-case scenarios . . .and then react to our projections and traumatize ourselves day and night).
I am not minimizing your pain - alcoholism is not for the faint of heart . . .it is truly a horrible disease and when you love someone who is not trustworthy on some level, it can be terrifying . . .because you have hooked your happiness onto their balloon and we all know how that can go . . .
The solution to "the problem" is not easy - there are spiritual challenges, emotional challenges, practical challenges . . .every day could be a total crap shoot.
I personally am a nervous type and can't take too much of it . . .I don't even have to live with it and it makes me a nervous wreck. It permeates all aspects of my life and challenges all of my values and beliefs.
I feel you are in survival mode . . .in crisis, really . . .it would be nice if you can get some real support, wherever you can find it. Your feelings are important . . . you might be feeling depressed, scared, angry, all-of-the-above . . .and if you are working too, taking care of a teen, and preparing for a new baby, your plate is more than full.
Take good care of yourself. You are the only one of you you have.
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If I may -- I don't want to overstep your boundaries here or take your inventory -- but I want to point out that we all need to feel safe in our own recovery steps without our significant others intruding and manipulating the results and vice versa. I saw that your AW was reading your posts and "liking" some responses to posts you make (yes, I saw that, bad news), and have noted that you seem quite uncomfortable with owning your anger and resentment around the effects of her addiction. What would happen for you if you were able to explore or channel that anger in a safe and healthy way? What would happen for her if she were able to accept the negative consequences of her drinking on your life and feelings and relationship, and be able to work through that without stonewalling you for having negative feelings about her drinking?
While it's great that you "dropped the rope" in this argument, there are a lot of things you write that read like red flags to me. All over the place. There is a theory you might look into that could provide some perspective: family systems theory, specifically enmeshment. It might be helpful, maybe not. I wish you luck.
While it's great that you "dropped the rope" in this argument, there are a lot of things you write that read like red flags to me. All over the place. There is a theory you might look into that could provide some perspective: family systems theory, specifically enmeshment. It might be helpful, maybe not. I wish you luck.
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Originally Posted by seek
I feel you are in survival mode . . .in crisis, really . . .it would be nice if you can get some real support, wherever you can find it. Your feelings are important . . . you might be feeling depressed, scared, angry, all-of-the-above . . .and if you are working too, taking care of a teen, and preparing for a new baby, your plate is more than full.
Take good care of yourself. You are the only one of you you have.
Take good care of yourself. You are the only one of you you have.
Fortunately, I am seeing a counselor, joined this forum and an al-anon group, we see a MC together and I am working on the things I can do so that the next ...whatever might knock me off course a bit rather than knocking me flat like this did. As you point out - I've been wayyyy to reactive and trying wayyyyy too hard to get back to feeling ...safe?
It's odd, I am not prone to having chaos and drama follow me around and I do not like it, trying to get back to my quiet, boring self. Resuming some hobbies, focusing on other things...
Anyway... my point on this thread was that sometimes in a marriage we get into a back and forth. We hold onto a lot of unresolved gunk and then some tiny issue comes along and alllll that unresolved fear/anxiety/frustration just spews out because damnit, we've had enough and this time we are going to let the other person know the 73 things they did to us and by God they are going to acknowledge that they were WRONG! Well, good luck with that. Chances are they are going to come up with 74 things you did wrong in their reply instead of acknowledging a damned thing you said.
...Funny thing happened when I pulled in my horns and let it pass. She came to me and apologized and express regret for her actions without any butchoos and she actually told me that she respected me for being willing to 'be the bigger person' and make the first step even though she knew I felt like she was the one who owed me an apology and she did not justify it or make it my fault. We had a good talk later and got to the core of the big blowup.
Her: You got so upset about that drink and it really worries me
Me: You scared the hell out of me.
Fear pretty much brings out the a-hole in all of us. The better I understand and accept alcoholism, the less I will fear it.
Oh BTW... What's a butchoo?
"Well fine, I was wrong and did this, that and the other thing butchoo did blah blah blah first so it's all your fault" :-) Might as well call that "Apolotacking".
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Yes, fear is the huge "elephant in the room."
I am scared ******** by my grandson's alcoholism . . .who knew this was even a possibility?
For all of the alcoholics out there, I know you don't really care, but it SCARES THE CRAP OUT OF THE PEOPLE YOU LOVE - and damages their sense of safety. For me, it is a total "safety" thing. Is the universe a safe place or not? Are the people I love trustworthy or not?
I studied Process Work and there is a concept of "rank." Alcoholics have RANK over those of us who love them, because we care about their health and well-being and want the world to be a safe, predictable place . . .and them . . . not so much.
I am scared ******** by my grandson's alcoholism . . .who knew this was even a possibility?
For all of the alcoholics out there, I know you don't really care, but it SCARES THE CRAP OUT OF THE PEOPLE YOU LOVE - and damages their sense of safety. For me, it is a total "safety" thing. Is the universe a safe place or not? Are the people I love trustworthy or not?
I studied Process Work and there is a concept of "rank." Alcoholics have RANK over those of us who love them, because we care about their health and well-being and want the world to be a safe, predictable place . . .and them . . . not so much.
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