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How much are you willing to sacrifice for your addicted loved one?



How much are you willing to sacrifice for your addicted loved one?

Old 09-03-2012, 06:15 AM
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How much are you willing to sacrifice for your addicted loved one?

I've recently spotted this signature line and I'd like to get your thoughts.

"The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."
  • How much have you sacrificed for the sake of your addicted loved one?
  • Are you willing to sacrifice more?
  • Are you willing to sacrifice everything?
  • Do you agree or disagree with the quote above?
  • Has your "sacrifice" helped your loved one find recovery?
No judgements here, please....these are very individual choices. Just share your experience and your thoughts on your own situation. I think it will be very useful for all who read here.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:30 AM
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I put my own emotional wellbeing, sanity, physical safety and financial stability on the line in my attempts to fix/save my daughter. It had no impact as it related to her recovery.

It did however allow me to seek and find my own bottom and save myself from my own delusions.

My daughter eventually got and stayed sober and saved herself when she was ready to do so.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:51 AM
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How much have you sacrificed for the sake of your addicted loved one? I can't really put a value on the emotional and physical toll. I will say I am lucky that I found good resources early on that helped me navigate these waters from Day One. Even so, there has definitely been a price to pay in my physical health from all the stress. Financially, we have spent, so far, probably around $40K. The insurance companies have probably spent another $100K.

Are you willing to sacrifice more? I have been struggling with this one. Maybe one more stint in rehab? Our out of pocket would be around $3-5K. The emotional toll when he relapses?.... pretty devastating, but I would 'recover' more quickly than in the past.

Are you willing to sacrifice everything?Absolutely not. I'm 54 years old and my husband is 66. I am not willing to withdraw any equity from our home or retirement funds. To do so would be to put the burden of our care on our other healthy children.. No, I'm not willing to live in poverty in my old age nor am I willing to place that burden on children who have made good choices and lead productive lives.

Do you agree or disagree with the quote above? No, and I am actually offended by it's implication. I "value" my child just as much as someone who chooses to sacrifice "everything" and to imply that I don't is offensive to me.

Has your "sacrifice" helped your loved one find recovery?
No. The best that's come of it is that he's learned that there is a path to recovery and he knows what is required. He could have gotten that education for free.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:58 AM
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Whatever I sacrificed of myself towards my AXGF's recovery didn't make any difference to her. She wasn't in recovery, and she's Borderline, so she was going to do whatever her internal beat was telling her to do.

But I think crashing and burning taught me an invaluable lesson. The addict, at the end of the day, doesn't care about your investment in them, or the price you pay for trying to help them. They're incapable of acknowledging and appreciating all you do for them, and if they say otherwise, then they're lying. The addict's going to do whatever the addict's going to do, and the best thing for a loved one to do is to accept it, wish them well, get out of their way and protect yourself.

Just because they're going down in flames doesn't mean you have to.
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:06 AM
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Here is my hierarchy:

AA
Me
Family
Friends
Etc (job, stuff, house......)

I will not put anything above AA or Me. Whatever I put above them I will lose.
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:49 AM
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That quote sounds like a version of the "parable of the 99" which I learned a little about by pursuing my degree in religion and theology in the midst of a lot of Christians. The story goes that of 100 sheep Jesus turns, leaves the flock and goes back to find the one black sheep...the one that is lost. That the ONE lost person is that important...

that being said I also love the line in the U2 songs that says "did you come here to play Jesus to the lepers in your bed?"

once, when I was weeping my eyes out in total despair because my ex was out on another crack binge, a very wise woman said to me "God loves him more than you do"

many codies get into that kind of "savior" mentality, that if they don't make the hard sacrifices for the addict then the addict will die. it's a clever way for the demon of addiction to suck your life right out of you. I eventually became a willing victim to feed the addiction!

I mention these things because of my own desire to "save" someone I loved. in some ways I suppose it is natural...but when addiction enters the picture everything gets so amplified, distorted, twisted and un-natural! and...really the wisdom of recovery teaches us that a good codie can wedge themselves right in between the addict and their own higher power...but when an addict hasn't chosen recovery, the codie finds themselves turning their back on their own higher power in order to stay focused on the addict.

I was so focused on my ex's demons that I let my own start dancing with his

what did I sacrifice? my time, my effort, my energy, my focus, my creative force, my mental well being, my heartspace, my yearning for life...in short, I sacrificed my LIFE

I think one thing that really finally helped in my letting go is that I realized that my sacrifices were starting to make me mentally ill. my ex was bi polar as well as addicted to crack and the combination made him a very "split" person. Because I was so tied to him (enmeshed) I started to become split myself. I started reading about personality disorders because I felt myself losing my sanity.

I was NOT willing to sacrifice anymore!! I had worked everything so hard, I was totally exhausted and I felt myself starting to slide down that slope. I decided I had slid far enough. I hit bottom.

Did my efforts help him? I don't know...I don't need to know, I can hope for his well being and recovery...but from a place of loving detachment.

What my efforts DID help was ME. I found myself at a much deeper place of my own recovery. Examining, listening, praying, feeling, reflecting, 4th stepping my way into a clearer understanding of WHY I was trying so hard...sacrificing SO much to hang on.

That has been the greatest gift of this journey.
To love myself fearlessly. To allow a higher love in my life.
But I found I couldn't really have that until I let go of the addiction/codependency relationship that was substituting in it's place.

I will no longer sacrifice my well being, my sanity, my life force and my connection with a higher source of love in order to stay attached to an addict!
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Old 09-03-2012, 08:29 AM
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"The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

You know that fake sneezy thing that people do so that they can say "bulls**t".....picture me doing that about now.

Sorry....but I find that statement quite insulting and playing to the codependent mindset.

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Old 09-03-2012, 08:49 AM
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I also find it insulting. It feels like the implication is that I don't love my addict enough.

People on here have been through hell and back. Suggesting that they don't care enough about their loved ones is hurtful and misguided, not to mention completely false. We care enough to stop helping them kill themselves.
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Old 09-03-2012, 09:26 AM
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It's VERY hard, as a mother, to come to the conclusion that if my daughter is hell-bent on driving 100 miles an hour into a brick wall, my sitting in the passenger's seat is NOT going to save her life...

That would be the ultimate sacrifice...and would only magnify the grief our family faces.
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Old 09-03-2012, 09:29 AM
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I could be wrong, but I think that signature is from a fairly new poster to SR.

Do I agree with it? Absolutely not. Do I take it personally? Absolutely not.

I view it as the opinion of someone in a great deal of pain, and whether that person decides to seek recovery themselves is up to them.

Remember, not everyone who comes here sticks around or agrees with the concept of recovery for themselves.

I spent years thinking self-sacrifice was the only way to go in order to "save" my loved one. I don't know about the rest of you!
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Old 09-03-2012, 09:32 AM
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"The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."
I don't buy it. If this is to be some sort of metaphor for addiction, then I thought they should not be sought after... the lost must find themselves. I don't view it as insulting, but perhaps misguided. Unless the quote doesn't have anything to do with the addict at all. Maybe it's about the person who loves the addict, looking for and recovering the self. And perhaps sacrificing the relationship with the addict....

How much have you sacrificed for the sake of your addicted loved one?

My addict in my life is my sister. And while I gave her nothing willingly, her addiction has cost me a healthy relationship with her, her future child and my parents. The ability to feel deeply. Basically my emotions in general always had to be squelched as a kid because I didn't want to cause trouble, and now I have trouble as an adult to express myself. I also used to be a super motivated overachiever, and somewhere along the way I lost my will to achieve. It really seemed like there was no point.

Are you willing to sacrifice more?
Hell no!

Has your "sacrifice" helped your loved one find recovery?

Of course not. I'm selfish and cold hearted because I don't talk to her and I don't send her money. And I warn our other relatives not to send her money either.
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Old 09-03-2012, 09:45 AM
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Thank you for posting this, tjp. I also have been pondering the tone and source of this quote. First, I thought it implies the rest of us just don't care enough for our ALOs. But, actually, it's naive thinking if I interpret it correctly, and I pray the poster who uses it can someday look back, read it, and say, "Wow! I have come a long way." After all, I have to say that I used to believe if I just could love ENOUGH.

How much have you sacrificed for the sake of your addicted loved one? In the case of my 27yo AS, between his father and my partner and me, we have probably spent upwards of $45k "helping" him with failed education attempts, rent and grocery money, "therapeutic" vacations, cars, etc. That is on top of the $22k of his college money, of which he blew $16k within 5 months. Notice not one dime spent for rehab as he has REFUSED, REFUSED any type of mental health counseling or drug addiction counseling. What were we to do? I am not a fan of kidnapping and putting into rehab. Maybe we should have. Who knows? I can't put a price tag on the toll this has taken out of my own mental health. I've gone through the guilt trips. I've gone through the what ifs. This is despite other loved ones assuring me I am one of the finest mothers they have ever known. I now believe them. I was a loving mother, and I still am. I just no longer choose to accept blame. I have given my son over to someone who can care for him better than I can---the loving ancient universal spirit whom I call God for want of a better word.

Are you willing to sacrifice more? No. I am not. I cannot speak for his father. My AS has assured me he is fine. He is not an addict. I am finally willing to accept his reality, although I know he is not fine.

Are you willing to sacrifice everything? Nope. I am diving deeper into my faith and my new found church faith community. It is a beautiful, life confirming process. Also, at 57, my partner and I are happily preparing for retirement. And, in that retirement we hope to continue to care for and support our beautiful 3 1/2 yo granddaughter that our son has tossed aside in the pursuit of his addictions. Also, we will continue to properly spoil his 30 yo sister who is a beautiful, happy, hard-charging young MSW. She and her husband are planning on having children, so I want to properly spoil them also. I am no longer willing to let my relationships with other beautiful family members and friends take a back seat to my past obsessions with what my AS might be up to. Mamas, I have had a REVELATION and it is a grand and glorious thing.


Do you agree or disagree with the quote above? It should be clear by now that I totally disagree with this quote.

Has your "sacrifice" helped your loved one find recovery? Oh, heavens no! In fact, my AS has had little incentive to find recovery. After all, his father has pretty much foot the bill for his rent and/or let him stay at his house for the past 9 years. I've done my share of rescuing. My AS is real good at stalling and stringing us on.

Thank you, Mamas. Your thoughtful responses to my OP about the car title loan was THE turning point for me. I had all the steps in place and was working my own recovery, but I see how easy it is for us to slip in our OWN recovery.

I have never heard this quote before and couldn't find it on a google search. It's hard for me to believe it is Christian based in that it appears to give powers to us humans that we don't have. We all know we can't save our ALOs. If it is does come from a "Christian" source, it is a misplaced understanding IMHO of Christianity.
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:17 AM
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"The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."
This statement works perfectly in the context of the codependant viewpoint. As the loved one of an addict, we become so caught up in the chaos of addiction and focusing on the addict that we often lose ourselves. The value we place on the lost (ourselves) will be determined by the sacrifice we are willing to make to seek us (work our recovery program and make self-care our number one priority) until we are found.

If it's used in the context of the addict, it's total bs; :rotfxko we are not that powerful, and we are not the addict's higher power, the addict must choose recovery for himself.
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:34 AM
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"The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

I'm not sure what is offensive about this. Sometimes the sacrafices we make are simply letting them go. I guess it depends on your interpretation of sacrifice.
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:56 AM
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Sacrifice? im in the middle of trying to get my rh out of my home so this may not come out nice.
My husband is in recovery... deep as in quoting the big book, getting spiritual and throwing concepts in my face and telling me i needed more alanon and to work on myself every time we argued. yesterday he was trying to get me an alanon sponsor before he went to go see an escort. this is after he hid and lied about a trip with his old using friends . so sacrifice? since at this point he won't admit he's done anything wrong and now he has recovery concepts he twists to justify it.... itvery vertically not sacrificed to stay with him...its insanity and a wholesale destruction of my self respect....even sober they can be very very sick.
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Old 09-03-2012, 11:32 AM
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(((((TJP)))))

Thank you very much for starting this thread.

"The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

When I first saw that signature line, I knew the 'new member' was codependent, lol Was I insulted? Maybe a little bit, but I didn't go there, instead I decided I would see how long it takes for the 'new member' to change their signature line, lmao

At one point, in my early years in Alanon, before I started to understand that my
priority list needed to be:

HP first
then ME
then those around me in order of importance to me

I gave my all to my A, everything. I knew his new DOC was gambling but I also suspected that he was partaking of the 'free drinks' the casinos give out. I repeat, I GAVE MY all!!!! With NO RESERVATIONS. Boy was I a dummy, rof but not laughing.

Moneywise it was over $25,000 and that was back in '84, '85, '86 and a bit of '87. Today that would be over $60,000. The money though was only a small part of what it cost me. I totally lost my peace and serenity. I turned into a sober raving lunatic. I could not understand 'why' he could not use the 12 steps to stop his gambling and come back to me. And, I was DEVASTATED that I, who loved him SO MUCH, could not HELP him or FIX him.

Wow was I in codependency DEEP. When I was finally in the throes of PAIN. my Alanon sponsor, who is a 'double winner' and at that time her practicing alcoholic husband and she were still living together, took me aside and we went out to eat and talk. That 'talk' lasted 5 hours, lol and she finally got me to understand and see that the only one who would be able to help Ken was Ken and his HP.

That all that energy I was spending on him to 'fix' him needed to be put back on myself so that I could 'save' myself. That I was allowed to be "happy, joyous and free" as promised to me in the program of AA. That I was allowed to have 'peace and serenity' in my life, regardless of what my husband did or didn't do. That I could be like her and continue to live with him or I had the choice to separate.

She helped me to understand that my Marriage Vows were a 'contract' that we both had committed to, and that when one of the parties breaks the contract I was then not obligated to stay through 'sickness'. That was a hard one for me, here was this woman telling me that it would be okay to divorce Ken and she was staying with her husband. I did come to find out thought, that with the laws the way they were back then in California, had she divorced, she would have lost a lot monetarily, including the home that SHE bought and PAID for. So she chose to stay, and just live her own life. On his last binge, she came home from an AA meeting to find him passed out on the living room floor and breathing 'funny' and she immediately called 911. He passed away 2 days later from cirrhosis of the liver and other related alcohol issues.

So with the help of some more Alanon meetings and more one on one talks with Pat I finally filed for divorce. Crying as I signed the papers. We were living in Nevada by then and the whole 'divorce procedure' took exactly 30 days and it was granted, then it would be final in another 30 days, so a total of 60 days and I was 'legally' free. NOtice I said 'legally' free.

For me to 'free' myself took much longer. I was miserable for about a year. But I continued to attend both my Alanon meetings and my AA meetings. Once in a while he would be in the AA meeting I was attending, and it was those times that I would grab the hand of whatever friend was with me and HANG ON TIGHT.

I did get better, I left Nevada and moved to New Mexico, where it seems I am destined to live the rest of my life, roflmao. I would get calls from him about every 10 months to a year, and it was by about the second call that I realized I wasn't gasping any more when I saw the number on my caller ID. (I got caller ID as soon as it was available and at that time I had to pay extra for it but for me it was worth it). I really was getting better. And every call when he would tell me how he was doing and what he was doing I would ask him "how's that working for you?" Long before Dr Phil started to use it, long before anyone had even heard of Dr Phil. lol

His last call to me was in December of '06. Something was different about him his voice and the way he was talking was so different. He asked me for help to get him into a treatment center. I said I would see what I could do. I got him a bed in the Salvation Army rehab here, called him, he was very enthusiastic about it and since he said he was too shaky to drive here, I agreed to drive the 5 1/2 hours to pick him up the next day and drive him back here. (He lived in the Phoenix area by this time). I drove over there the next morning, arrived at 9:10 am. (You know how early I left here, lol). I had to think about this, but realized that he did sound sincere this time and since it was not something he could do for himself, I could and would do it. Just like I would for any other alcoholic in his shape.

When I arrived, he was so bad, thin as a rail (he had never carried a lot of weight, he was 6'2" and usually weighed about 170) I would say was probably at about 140 pounds or less, was very yellow not just his eyes but his skin and was shaking like a leaf in a strong breeze. I didn't call an abulance, I knew it would take too long for it to get there and then the 'dicking around' with the paper work. Instead, I said to ken, 'give me your insurance card, were going to the hospital before we go anywhere."

I got him to the hospital in record time, thankfully I didn't see one police car as I was speeding badly. There was no waiting at the hospital, the Triage Nurse took one look at him and escorted us back to a cubicle. Once the doctors and nurses were 'seeing to him' and that was also almost immediately, I went and did the hospital 'paperwork' etc and came back to him. I started having a bit of a De jevu moment remembering my sponsor's story about her hubby. LIttle did I know how similar it would become.

Within about 30 to 45 minutes of us being there he was admitted to the ICU unit. When he was 'settled' up there, he asked me if I was staying. I said I could if he wanted me to. He said yes and gave me his apartment keys and told me to stay at his place rather than spend money on a hotel, and I did. I called back to NM and told my daughter what was going on and asked her to look after my dogs (I only had two at that time, lol). She said 'no problem'.

He was in bad shape and was not 'bouncing back.' I found the number and called his twin brother up in San Franciso and relayed how bad Ken was. His brother and wife arrived the next day.

He only lasted 4 more days. The Death Certificate listed cause of death as cirrhosis of the liver and alcohol poisoning. I stayed to help his brother, as they had been estranged also and he had no idea what Ken would have wanted. I could only go by what he and I had discussed years before, so we did that. He was cremated, his brother took the ashes to be strewn in the mountains east of Santa Cruz and we had a Memorial Service for him. Quite a few AA members attended and were very sad that he gone back to alcohol 'one more time' as they said he had over 2 years again.

I came home when it was all over, and vowed to myself that I would NEVER allow myself to become that involved with an A again. That I would NEVER extend myself so far that it destroyed me in the process. Not that this time I was destroyed or even close to it, because for me he had died a long time before that. This was just another A to me that didn't make it.

But, it was his death, that finally 'triggered' something in me to realize how REALLY CODIE I had been for many years, and not just with the A's in my life but with ALL the folks in my life that I cared about. Sheeeeeesssssshhhh. in January of '07 I was still a pretty sick cookie only I had not thought so. i sat on this new discovery for a few days 'mulling' it over.

Then I called Pat in California (she had also become my AA sponsor after Bev's passing in February of '99) and asked her if she would like to come for a visit (say 2 weeks minimum, lol) and I would pay her travel expenses. After we talked a bit, she said 'sure'. I picked her up at the EP airport the next day. She stayed 5 weeks and I did another AA 12 steps and Alanon 12 steps.

I apologixe for the length of my response but this topic 'triggered' a lot in me. Since that 5 weeks in early '07 I have been totally different in how I interact with others in my life. I am still learning how NOT to give advice unless asked, but I am a lot better than I used to be, lol

So my answers are a simple NO I will not sacrifice to help another, be they an A or not. I will only do what I AM COMFORTABLE doing, not what may or may not be 'politically correct' or doing something because 'what will people think' if I don't.

I don't believe that those 'sacrifices' I made in the past helped any person that I was sacrificing for.

At 67 years old, I DO NOT sacrifice for anyone any more. That is why in October of 2010 I broke it off with my 'first love' after 10 months of seeing more and more 'Red Flags.' I was NOT going down that road again.

Insanity is the repetition of the same acts or actions 'EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS.'

Today I AM SANE!

J M H O

Love and hugs,
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:28 PM
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"The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

Maybe I'm not reading this correctly, but I don't find it to be insulting. To find it insulting, you have to read something into it, don't you? Like, you're SUPPOSED to be valuing the lost above all else. But the quote doesn't say that. All of us who love(d) addicts have made tremendous sacrifices in terms of material things, time, resources, energy, and emotional health. And we balanced (as with everything) those sacrifices against the benefit of making them. All of us very appropriately expended time, energy, money, etc., to try to help our addict early on because until we made at least SOME effort, we couldn't be sure how wedded he/she was to the path he/she was on. And most of us went overboard for awhile, then learned the limits of what we could handle.

I don't think it is appropriate or laudable to value one person over someone else. So when it reached the point where we realized that despite our best efforts, our addict insisted on self-destructing, we stepped off the ride because to do otherwise would have been to be destroyed as well. It is not laudable to sacrifice your own life for the sake of the addict, because your life is every bit as valuable as the life of the addict.

I read the quote as suggesting that some sacrifice is appropriate and demonstrates that you value the "lost." I don't read it as suggesting that complete sacrifice - essentially losing your own life for the sake of the "lost" - is the ideal.
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Old 09-03-2012, 04:35 PM
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tjp, I wasn't sure if the questions under the quote were a part of the signature line, or were asked by you. If they were a part of the signature line, then I read the entire thing as DISCOURAGING codependency, not encouraging it. Because for those people who respond, "Yes, I would sacrifice more," and "Yes, I would sacrifice everything," the last question is a real eye-opener. For most of us, if we asked ourselves, have your sacrifices helped your loved one find recovery, the answer would be "no." And realizing this would presumably make one realize that being willing to sacrifice more, or everything, doesn't make sense, given the futility of the sacrifice.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:49 PM
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I think my post was misinterpreted, but no matter -- it's still a good thread and I thank you all for posting replies.
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:22 PM
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I thought we were giving our thoughts on our interpretation of the quote.....not an opinion about an individual.

The quote places a value on one person (the lost? the addict?) only based upon the sacrifice of another to save them. It is not only demeaning to "the lost" but it devalues the sacrifice of the martyr as "never enough".

No one human's value is determined by the efforts or lack thereof of another. No one person's love is measured by what they give up in order to prove how great it is.

There are lots of quotes I love....this isn't one of them.

gentle hugs
ke
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