dbh

Went to a small party last night. People from my neighborhood. Parents that I know from school, swim team, and girl scouts.

When I'm around this particular crowd, the topic of conversation always seems to turn to gossip. Problems that they are having with other parents or worse, analyzing what is wrong with other people's children!

These conversations are held in front of their own children. It is so unhealthy!

I walked away when the conversation started to head in this direction and we ended up leaving early. When we left I couldn't help but think, "I wonder what they are saying about us now!"

This morning I woke up and found myself obsessing about last night and judging them. Then I saw the irony in me judging them for judging other people.

I find that I'm particular sensitive about gossip because of my family of origin. My mother would often talk about all of her children behind our back. She would talk about my sister and brother to me; me and my brother to my sister, etc. This triangulation was so damaging to us. It put me in a state where I was scared to do anything because I knew that it would be judged!

However, this particular group of people fall under something that I can not control. I'm putting the focus back on me and my family. I'll also probably spend even less time around these parents.

I know so many people that gossip and I find it frustrating! Have I just gravitated to these personalities because of my own dysfunctional past? Is my gossip sensor tuned too high?

Thank you for letting me share.

db

dollydo

"I know so many people that gossip and I find it frustrating! Have I just gravitated to these personalities because of my own dysfunctional past? Is my gossip sensor tuned too high?"

I don't know, however, I do not involve myself with gossip, I find it to be counterproductive.

tromboneliness

The tendency to gossip is one of those "humbly asked God to remove our shortcomings" shortcomings that I'm hoping to get removed.

A certain amount of gossip is just human nature -- "Did you see that new garage so-and-so built? Wonder where he got the money to do that," etc. To a point, it's no big deal. But when it gets to be a habit, whenever you're among friends and start talking about other people in your circle of... friends, "frenemies," or whatever they might be... that you start to wonder, "Hmmm; what are they saying about me when I'm not around?... and is any of it true?"

To a certain extent, I can say, "I don't really care if they're saying stuff about me -- that's their privilege." I feel that way about my extended family (who, as you guys know, I pretty much avoid much contact with these days). But that's not entirely true -- and it certainly isn't true when you're a child in your FoO. When they start gossiping, and you know they're judging you when you're not in the room, it becomes unhealthy.

T

EveningRose

dbh,

How I can relate to every word!!!! As with other posts here, I wonder how much of this is our backgrounds in alcoholic families and how much is human nature. Is the gossiping and triangulation worse in dysfunctional and alcoholic families?

I don't know.

But I do know that I also grew up with this. My mother telling me what was wrong with various siblings. Finally realizing she was also telling them all the things wrong with me. Hearing the pain in my sister's voice as she told how she heard all the great stuff about my kids while our mother seemed to find fault with hers. And I, of course, have heard plenty about my kids' faults and my faults as a parent. I've talked on the forum about the way my mother's behavior has driven wedges between me and another sibling, one who now believes that I'm a screw-up, because my mother always told her so, and believes that it is appropriate and right to correct me on any matter and expect me to listen humbly, agree, and do as I'm told, never mind that I'm a decade older, and have a vast amount more experience in life, and have proven my competence repeatedly in my professional and personal life.

Triangulation. It's a beautiful thing.

The last attempt I made with my mother, several years ago, was spent listening to her gossip and criticize others. It's a large part of why I walked away from her home that day knowing I would not be going back or calling again. I simply didn't want to be part of it, and every single attempt I made to provide the two of us with pleasant conversation and good things to say about others was repelled.

I, too, struggle with the difference between gossip and discernment, discernment and judging, criticizing unnnecessarily and venting.

I have a friend with whom I discuss these frustrations with my family. She tells me her frustrations with hers. I find this different, entirely, than when my mother talks about people, and I have asked myself why. I think it's because when my mother talks about other people, the underlying emotion, motivation, and attitude seems to be, "I hate them, they're bad, and I want you to hate them, too." Her mouth is pursed with lines all around it, she's leaning forward, her eyes narrowed. She sounds bitter.

When my friend tells me what's going on, her body language is different, and the underlying message I hear is, "I'm sad, I'm bewildered, I hurt,I don't understand why she's doing this, what can I do to help the situation, and how can I make a better life for myself and my children?"

Another difference is that my friend and I routinely talk about happy things and say good things about people. At least I think we do! I hope we do! With my mother, I couldn't turn the conversation to anything positive to save my life. I feel my friend wants to be happy. I feel my mother wants to tell the world how badly everyone has treated her and wallow in her misery instead of climbing out of it.

My friend has seen doctors about dealing with her bi-polar and she takes medication. She's taken action to improve her life. My mother won't see a doctor, or look into depression, or seek medication, or see a counselor. She just wants to keep talking about how bad other people are.

When my mother talks about other people, the feeling is hatred of them personally, telling me they're bad people, and she wants me to hate them, too. When my friend talks about other people, I don't feel that she hates them or thinks they're bad people and she's definitely not trying to turn me against them. I feel she's frustrated with a particular thing they've done and genuinely looking for what is the proper response on her part.

I think from what you're saying, you're dealing with more of the first, the 'they're terrible' type of stuff, and whatever the reasons you ended up friends with these people, it sounds like you're making some wise and conscious choices in deciding not to be part of it. For me, I've come to feel in many cases, that while it may be because of my past, it doesn't matter why, it only matters that I keep trying to do better in the future and you're doing that.

And it is true that gossip is a strong trait in the human race. We can only do our best to step away from it, especially the cruel and harmful type.

Plath

So well said, EveningRose. I couldn't have described my situation better, actually. Sadly, I've learned some of that behavior from my mom, and it's confusing for me. Like you said, trying to differentiate from being discerning and being judgmental, etc., is really, REALLY hard (for me, at least).

I do have really visceral reactions to people sometimes (mostly when they remind me of my mother, or I start to feel a "fight or flight" reaction with them for some reason), and I can have some very nasty things to say about those people. It feels...wrong. Like in my soul, it just feels negative and just...not right.

I have a feeling I'll learn a lot more from this thread than I'll be able to contribute, but dbh, I agree that it sounds as though you're handling this situation in a very healthy way, and (in my opinion) teaching your own children by way of example...it sounds as if these people are pretty toxic, from what you're describing.
Walking away from them when it crosses the line into nasty, demeaning talk about others seems like a great way to "lead by example".

I don't know whether or not you're unconsciously attracted to people who act this way, but I do tend to agree that sometimes it's just a part of human nature.
People seem to either struggle with it, or they just live their lives allowing it to go unchecked.
I do feel that when we're encountering groups of people that we only have basic things in common with--kids, neighborhoods, etc., not everyone is going to be healthy or even nice. Those people seem to be around, no matter where you go--work, school functions, etc.

I'm sorry that you're having to experience such a downright unpleasant environment with these people, and I know that if I were in your shoes I would really be struggling with obsessing over what they might be saying about me behind my back as well. I think that's when we need to check in with our inner child, pray, meditate, or whatever works for us...easier said than done sometimes.

Hugs to you (if you want hugs). I hope it gets easier.

NWGRITS

Before I even saw your location, I was going to ask if you happen to live in the DC Metro area. I spent my college years in Fairfax, and I still have friends there with children, and I hear this all.the.time. The best you can really do is take the high road, and try to teach your kids to do the same. Easier said than done, I know. I don't really socialize with the other parents here, just to try to stay away from that crap (I live in a very small Navy town on an island 45 minutes Northwest of Seattle). I volunteer for the PTA, but keep to myself for the most part. It definitely sucks, and I just try to remember that it doesn't matter what anyone is saying about me because they don't really know me.

DavidG

I always say to myself- don't trust anyone who gossips.

Triangulation, and all those insidious chinese whispers-
it happened right inside my own family and left me
being a scapegoat.

I ended up becoming a nervous mess!

I needed an adult in the mix to be fair and point to the truth.
And to honour the individual in the family!

Through the programme i can do this myself.

I always respect the anonymity in the programme, but sometimes
I talk about group matters that affect me. For me this is healthy.

Any personality matters I discuss with the group inside of the
meeting [if I can].

We are anonymous, but not invisible.

For me this is the model of ~healthy~ and not dysfunctional.

thanks for the chance to share...

-Da.

EveningRose

I really believe it's hard for everyone. I think it's a question that philosophers and theologians could easily be discussing. So maybe we need to give ourselves credit that we are thinking about it at all, and not simply gossiping thoughtlessly with others, that we're looking at ourselves and asking if we can be better.

I have someone like this in my life. She has never really done anything to warrant it; in fact, she's generally been quite friendly to me, loves my kids, and spends her life serving others. What I have done about it is talk to myself, remind myself she has done nothing. The one time I said something, several years ago, in front of my kids, about how annoying I found her, I immediately corrected myself, and admitted to them, "You know, I shouldn't have said that. She has done nothing to me."

Now, I think I admitted that it was probably her voice that grates on me so badly (it's rather high-pitched and she raises it to be heard by the large groups with whom she works), and I didn't mean that in any way except to just try to explain to myself why I'm reacting as I am, to work through it, and I probably shouldn't have even said that.

But I do hope that at least I set an example of admitting I was wrong and being unjust, and it has helped me to think twice, since then, before saying anything thoughtless in the first place. I hope it has also helped my kids stop and think when they have such reactions to people, rather than just plowing ahead with telling everyone how annoying or wrong so and so is.

RobinKS

I can relate to this post, triangling, thats what my family does. I don't have anything to do with most of them. My son's high school baseball team parent organization is fully of gossip. I got involved with a very sick woman from the team this summer and really hit bottom. I am trying really hard not to gossip when I go to the games, this usually means I sit by myself....thanks for listening and for the discussion.