Plath

I'm wondering about other people's experiences with treating Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

I know that PTSD is my primary diagnosis, but there are so many symptoms that seem to get confused as their own diagnosis that I'm wondering how other people who have been able to forge their way through to healing have done so.

I have a psychiatrist who I go to because the last couple of primary care physicians I saw were reluctant to prescribe my normal prescription--1 mg of Klonopin twice a day. I've been taking this for years, and would like to get off of it, but I don't think I'm ready just yet.

However, it's a giant hassle for me. I've been diagnosed with General Anxiety Disorder, Social Anxiety, etc., and while those are symptoms of the PTSD, I believe that's basically all they are--symptoms.

So my psychiatrist is constantly pushing anti-depressants on me, in spite of the fact that I have told him quite clearly that I've tried almost every anti-depressant out there (including the newer ones) and that not only do they not help with my anxiety, I actually have an adverse reaction to them--increased anxiety, even after trying the medications for extended periods of time, and low tolerance to even the lowest dosages.

I was reluctant to give him permission to release my information to my therapist, but I eventually allowed him to do so. Now my therapist, who I generally value and have made a lot of progress with, has advocated getting on anti-depressants as well, which is very frustrating. I don't feel like I'm being heard by the people who need to be listening to me.

There is also the phrase "chemical imbalance" that gets thrown around a bit, and I'm thinking "It's been over twenty years since I was in a totally natural state--not using any type of drug or alcohol, including the prescription medications I've been taking since 2005--how in the h#ll could anyone even know what the normal state of my brain chemistry even looks like?".

My therapist has been reluctant to offer EMDR therapy to me, as she doesn't think that I'm ready for it--and I would tend to agree with her, as I think that there are some very deep-rooted feelings that I might not be prepared to face just yet. So we focus on the very helpful therapy that she offers, in addition to some holistic approaches.

I'm wondering if other people with PTSD have had frustrating experiences with the professionals trying to treat us, and how did you deal with it?

I've noticed that when I do try to get off of the Klonopin, I get waves of powerful fear, very much like intrusive thoughts (which I experience occasionally), but I assume that it's a part of *getting off of* the medication, not necessarily the way that my brain would normally operate. I don't think that the professionals take into consideration that getting off a medication seems to dramatically increase whatever symptoms the medication has been treating, until the brain becomes accustomed to not having that medication there...?

Those are my thoughts, anyway, and I'm wondering if anyone has had experiences that they want to share along these lines? Opinions are appreciated, as I can't quite decide whether I want to believe that I have some sort of irrevocable chemical imbalance (I wasn't born that way, and didn't have these symptoms when I was a kid), and at this point I really don't know what to make of it.

I have assumed that, just as a chemical imbalance can be brought on with repeated trauma, learning how to cope with the feelings that come up and doing things to create a permanent, calmer environment would reverse the effects of the trauma eventually. Does anyone have opinions or experiences they want to share?

Jur123

I was on SSRI for a while. It did help with depression and anxiety, however it's not a long term solution as I used to get (and still get) the flashbacks from my childhood years.
I think it's very good that you decided to come off Klonapin. I was on it for a couple of months and deeply regret that (it's just my experience I'm sure it helps other people).
I hope you'll find what works for you.

Plath

Thanks. I've been on Klonopin for years, and it's a really miserable medication to get off of, but unfortunately it's the only one that seems to work for me (and it still doesn't totally eliminate my anxiety).

I'm not ready to get off of it yet, but I'm considering giving it a try very soon.
I just wish that the professionals I'm working with could have a better understanding that (it seems) the side effects from getting off of a medication are temporary, and not the way that our brains would normally behave.

From my personal and professional experience (working with schizophrenic adults who took a lot of meds), people's symptoms seem to increase dramatically when they decrease the dosage of an anti-depressant/anxiety/psychotic medication, and then it seems to kind of mellow out after a while...and it seems like the time it takes for someone's brain to go back to "normal" kind of depends on how long they've been on the medication.

I've known people who had drug-induced psychosis for long periods of time, even after they got off whatever drug they were taking, and then their brains eventually just kind of returned to where they were before they started using mind-altering drugs, so I feel a little bit skeptical when my therapist hints that I have an inherent imbalance with my brain chemistry.

My husband also used to have horrible panic attacks, and would think he was dying, for years after he stopped using drugs. It took a while, but he cut out caffeine and sugar from his diet, didn't use any type of drug or mind-altering substances, and eventually his panic attacks went away.

I had something similar happen with the panic attacks. Once I realized what they were, I was able to calm myself down almost immediately when one would start to come on. I would realize that I had been emotionally triggered by something or someone, and I was just having a panic attack. Then it would go away.

Unfortunately, I'm left with a residual general anxiety and a bit of social anxiety, and a whole lot of fear lurking underneath the surface.

But I suppose that my point is: Has anyone been able to overcome their PTSD symptoms without long-term use of medications, and how were you able to get to that point? Did you have to constantly "agree to disagree" with the professionals who were trying to treat you?

Am I way off base thinking that I can beat this without some sort of additional medication?

I probably could have posted this on the Mental Health forum, but I figured there might be more people on this forum who are familiar with the ins and outs of PTSD treatment.

Butterfly12

I agree that you will most likely find more answers on another forum as this is for ACOA. However, I went through what you are dealing with in fighting psychiatrists and a therapist over medication. I am unable to tolerate meds either and only take xanax at night to sleep and a smidge during the day in case of a panic attack. SSRIs and other mood balancing drugs are toxic to my system, but the "professionals" insist that I need meds to heal. That's a load of garbage and decided that I wouldn't let them bully me into harming myself. I've been there way too many times with medical professionals and have concluded that I know my body and my mind better than they and their cookie-cutter approaches do.

PTSD is a constellation of symptoms so you need to know what your's are and deal with them while you're working on getting to what's causing them and heal that part of you. Perhaps, you need to seek out a second opinion from another therapist and psychiatrist who specialize in PTSD. That, or skip the psy and ask your GP for a prescription for Klonopin. My GP prescribes my Xanax. Just some thoughts as I know how frustrating it is to fight with care providers.

Nutritional support, such as your husband worked on, is also key to controlling anxiety. I'm on a regimine of high doses of the B's and other supplements to support my nervous system while I'm working through the program at Al Anon. Also, do you have a support group? I'm finding this to be way more helpful than my therapists ever were. Good luck to you.

LuvMySis

Plath, for what it's worth, I've accepted that I will be on a low dose of anti-anxiety and anti-depression medicine for the rest of my life. It's a quality of life issue for me.

Plath

Thanks, Butterfly and LuvMySis.

Butterfly, what you're describing is pretty much exactly what I'm experiencing right now.

I wouldn't even be bothering with a psychiatrist (I saw one for about a year while I was first trying out different meds), but when I moved I found that the general practitioners I was going to see were really reluctant to give me my prescription. I'm not sure where that's coming from, as I was getting my prescription from a general practitioner for years, but now I have been having to go to a psychiatrist. I've been considering finding another general practitioner who won't be so skittish about prescribing benzodiazepines, but it's such a hassle.

My therapist is normally really great, and I've made tons of progress since I started working with her, but I'm starting to think that she simply does not understand PTSD, and as you described, the "constellation of symptoms". I reckon that if I had a legitimate chemical imbalance, medications would work for me, and they do not.

For about a month, when I first began seeing my therapist, I cut out coffee and sugar from my diet, and I felt unbelievably calmer. Then I went back to the coffee, but kept the sugar out.
Today I have just been drinking tea again, as the coffee caffeine really seems to cause the stress/anxiety to go through the roof. I think I may actually put the coffee pot away in the cupboard to deter me from making any!

I use a lot of herbal supplements, and I'm thinking that perhaps if I cut out the coffee from my diet (I'm already a reasonably healthy eater, even if I have to do it via making my own juices with beets, carrots, ginger, etc.) and stick with the herbal supplements, it would probably do at least as much good as any antidepressant ever has, and maybe I could begin to decrease my dosage without so many side effects...

Anyway, I'm kind of rambling, as this has sent me into a bit of a panic mode. It's very important to me that I am able to trust and maintain the healthy relationship I've had with my therapist, as I know from experience that good ones are hard to come by, and many that I would choose are not covered by my insurance if they accept insurance at all.

I'll keep the vitamin Bs in mind, and try to incorporate more of that into my diet, or supplements if needed. For now I rely on some Ayurvedic herbs, skullcap, and Holy Basil to help with sleep, mood stabilization, etc.

I suppose the hard part is letting go of some of that deep, dark fear. I know that it's really difficult for me to let go of it because, to my inner way of thinking, fear keeps me safe. It's been extremely difficult for me to try to work on that particular coping mechanism. The fear is still hanging around (I think) because, deep down, I don't want to let go of my vigilance because if I do, I believe that "bad things will happen".

LuvMySis, thank you so much for your response. I wish it were as easy as being able to find a medication that actually worked for me, and just come to terms with having to be on it for the rest of my life. Unfortunately, none of the medications I've tried (and I've tried quite a few) have increased my quality of life by much, except for the clonazepam, which isn't really an option to stay on forever, due to the damage it can cause to the liver, and the physical dependence that people develop on it.

glenns

A while back I wanted some medicinal treatment for my social anxiety; I knew I couldn't keep using EtOH (booze) to solve my problem. So, I thought the natural course was to have the Doc prescribe me a benzo. After all, wouldn't a benzo be safer than the disasterous route EtOH has been taking me?
Not only that, but I heared that Xanax packs a killer whallop!

The alcoholic in me got continually frustrated as Doc after Doc refused to prescribe me a benzo; They suggested anti-depressants ad nauseaum (all kinds. Tricyclics. SSRI's MAOI inhibitors, etc.), but never did they give me a script for the benzo. I fancied this to be a case of a violaton of the Docs' Hippocratic Oath; That they should prescribe me this med, and none other, because I have anxiety and beno's treat anxiety.

The reality, however, is that I'm an alcoholic, and have the alcoholic mindset. I've since then became honest enough with myself to acknowledge the real motivation behind me wanting that script for the benzo: I wanted something that would pack a terrific whallop, and get me wasted on those days I wanted to get wasted. My motivation was nothing more; superficially, I thought the benzo would treat my anxiety, but who am I kidding? My struggles to try and get a benzo was nothing more than common drug-seeking behavior!
I belong to a Fellowship that demands rigorous honesty and it was this rigorous honesty that taught me my seeking a benzo script was just garden-variety drug-seeking behavior.

I'm now taking 30Mg Mirtazepine (a tricyclic antidepressant), and it does pack a nice whallop--taken right before bedtime, I drift off easily for a nice restful sleep. And, unlike benzo's, no addiction potential!

Does Mirtazepine work for me? For the most part, yes. I like the Ambien-like drowsiness I get from it, and seems to keep my depression in check. The old side effects (increased appetite and increased libido) faded away after a couple of months on it.

I wouldn't even bother with a benzo now; I'm so well-acquainted with alcohol withdrawals (including hospitalizations, etc.) that I absolutely wouldn't want a benzo withdrawal, which are just as deadly as EtOH withdrawals but longer lasting (ouch!). Besides. The benzo buzz is like waaaaaaaay overrated!

glenns

Here's where you're being presumptive. Perhaps you view a "legitimate chemical imbalance" as some kind of permanent defect of the brain? Bad wiring, perhaps? And, of course, this presumption is erroneous. The "legitimate chemical imbalance" can be made legitamate by a number of means. Drink plenty of Kool-Aid, and you'll end up with a legitimate chemical imbalance in the brain. No bad wiring, no deformed neurons, and no permanent defect of the brain. Just a temporary and legitimate chemical imbalance from the excess sugar consumption.

Our anxiety and depression is equally as temporary, althoug much longer lasting than the legitimate chemical imbalance from drinking too much Kool-Aid. Our legitimate chemical imbalance came from being raised by abusive (either emotionally or physically) parents. Here's where the anti-depressant comes into play; The anti-depressant was designed to be a bona-fide mood-lifter, thus balancing our neuro-chemicals that had been brought out of balance from abuse we sustained as children.

I can produce a ton of peer-reviewed journals that all but prove the anti-depressant (specifically, the tricyclic class) elevates the mood in every subject it is given to. If you're mentally healthy and were always happy, the anti-depressant will make you happier. If you've been depressed for quite some time, the anti-depressant will elevate your mood to near-"normal" levels.

The fact that the anti-depressant elevates the mood on just about every subject it is given to ( including those with no "legitimate chemical imbalance") proves that the anti-depressant doesn't 'straighten out bad wiring,' or help with a brain that was born with a 'chemical imbalance' of some sort; The anti-depressant simply elevates one's mood and nothing more.

frances2011

Want wanted to thank the OP and respondents for a really interesting discussion.

Only thing to add is support for each of us finding out the best ways to live happily and healthfully, as well as my experience.

I won the lottery that the first anti-D prescribed worked for me to help with my anxiety. and depression. For the immediate future, as I continue to improve month over month, I have no plans to go off it.

I've had the "is it me or is it how I was raised?" conversation with my doctor. She is more on the "it's how you are wired" side. I am really not sure. I know I have had experiences of being safe and happy, but my prevailing, dominant experience of daily life, from childhood, is of anxiety and fear. My home was troubled from the start, so who knows if I "came this way?" My mom was an alcoholic, so maybe I came wired this way?

I relate to the PTSD label, although I am mindful of how much worse so many people had it than me. PTSD fits my experience in many ways.

Just grateful to be here sober, in the SR community, learning and growing.

Plath

Thanks, everyone.

I understand the concept of having a trauma-induced chemical imbalance, and it makes sense to me that my brain has been "rewired" to go into fight or flight mode more readily than is necessary or productive.

I'll save space, time and energy here by not going again into detail about my experiences with antidepressants. For those who have found antidepressants that work for them, I wish that could be the case for me!


I am wondering whether anyone has been able to successfully get OFF of their antidepressants or anti-anxiety medications and still find healthy ways of coping with their PTSD symptoms, or found that, after enough therapy, the medication was no longer needed?

Thanks again for all of your input.

In other news...

Today, for the second day, I have decided to go with tea rather than coffee (I've been drinking a pot of coffee every day for as long as I can remember, the only exception being while I was pregnant...no meds then either, and it really sucked).
So, ya know...it only makes sense that cutting out the pot of coffee per day would reduce my anxiety levels, ha. It's almost as difficult as quitting smoking, though!

I have noticed that what I put into my body (or don't put into my body) does impact my level of calmness.
I am very thin, but still lean towards being diabetic, so I stay away from sugar.
However, it's hard to do when I prefer going organic with my foods, so I've been adding a bit of organic honey to my coffee (now tea).

I'm thinking I should probably cut out the honey as well, because when I quit coffee and sugar altogether a few months back, and made sure to eat something with protein every morning, my overall peace of mind and energy levels were noticeably improved.

Anyway, thanks again for the feedback and support, everyone. If anyone else has experiences to share, please do.

amy55

Plath,

Just wanted to say a "big" thank you to you. I was/am diagnosed with PTSD, anxiety attacks, panic attacks, and "situational depression".

Every psych, doctor, therapist, wanted me to go on anti-depressants. Actually tried a few, but had to stop them, they just made the anxiety and panic attacks worse. I have never heard any one else say that they also felt the same as I did. So thank you, people thought I was nuts when I told them it only made me worse.

I was on klonopin for 18 months. I weened myself off of them. Did this without telling psych, because they just wanted to keep prescribing, and more prescribing. Note---- I would not recommend this.

I'm still doing OK without it, but I do need to say, all of this happened because I was in an extremely abusive relationship. I'm no longer in it, so I can't comment about the rest. I still get the fight or flight mode at times, but since I am out of the relationship, I can calmly talk myself out of things.

Plath

Thank you so much for sharing that, Amy!

It really is such a relief when there are at least a few people out there who can understand how I'm feeling.

I weaned myself off of the clonazepam when I found out I was pregnant (for some reason, although my doctor knew that I was trying to get pregnant, she never told me that it was a class C (or perhaps D) medication, and that I would need to get off of it *before* becoming pregnant, so I had to do it as quickly as I could manage. Nope, not fun. I knew that it was physically addictive, and that I would have to get off of it before he was born, but that was about it. Thankfully, my son is totally healthy and active, everything intact.

I've actually weaned myself down to a lower dosage in the past without asking my doctors about it, and it's been okay (I only decrease the dosage by about a half mg every week or maybe every two weeks...sometimes only by a quarter of a mg, depending on how I'm doing). But I do experience the miserable side-effects that come along with the withdrawals...feeling weird and out of sorts, more fearful than I normally do, and just feeling really awkward around other people.

It's like all of the symptoms that the medication has been treating manifest themselves at least twice as harshly when I try to come off of it. The experience of the withdrawals is far worse than how I felt before I started taking the medication, so that's always hard.

I think it might be time to just suck it up and try to get off of it, and see if healthier foods and herbal supplements might help with the withdrawals and side-effects. I may ask my doctor to prescribe the low dose of Gabapentin for me, which is an anti-seizure medication that is also used to occasionally treat anxiety. That might help.

I can remember working in a medical detox facility years ago, and we would not even accept people who had an addiction to benzodiazepines, because the withdrawals are so severe.

I think that, as I mentioned, for me it's the overwhelming fear that comes over me when I start to get off of the Klonopin.
I'm thinking that if I address that fear, and its origins (and tend to my inner child regarding those feelings) it might ease the feelings of fear that come over me when I get off the meds? I'm not sure about any of this, but that's my hopeful hypothesis.

Anyway, thank you so much for sharing your experience! It's nice to know that you were able to get off of it and learn how to calm yourself down of your own accord. That's what I'm hoping for.

amy55

Hi again Plath, in my experience the SSRI's made things worse. I think that maybe it might have given hope, and I didn't want hope. Like I said I had "situational depression", so, those pills just made me say,oh wow,now I have hope again, now I can make things better. I remember writing in my journal that I would rather be a the deepest state of dispare, get through that, and then have a happy life.

So I took those damn anti depressants, and guess what, it gave me hope again, I didn't want hope again, I wanted to change my life. I wanted to be ok with me, but those pills made me keep thinking that I could fix things, so as you can guess I just got worse.

I haven't really read your posts, and I am sorry, I normally don't come to this forum at all, and why,? could be talking about PTSD,makes me more PTSD.

But I am out of my situation for over 3 yrs, and I think that I can finally talk about it.

And yes, the fear of going off of klonopin, wow, that saved my sanity at times. I was also taking seroquel to go to sleep. Stopped that also, or should I say weaned myself off.

I agree that klonopin is not addictive, but yes, it is psychologically addictive. My psych actually told me that they would prefer prescribing klonopin instead of xanax, which could be addictive

Xanax, and why psychs don't like it now, is because it works really quickly, but it is a quick fix, then you start to take more and more, because original dose no longer works.

Klonopin, you take once or twice daily, don't need a quick fix,because it is supposed to be working.

So you take the pills away, and guess what, you still need to handle the issues, that you were numbing yourself from.

I did get out of an abusive relationship, but I can tell you right now, I see red flags all over the place. I still get into fight or flight. I am still hypervigilant. Now I will just take that as my gut is trying to tell me something.

Whatever is bothering you, or whatever does this, IMO, work on that. Work on your feeling of insecurity, work on your feelings of no self-esteem. Just want you to know BTDT, I still have many doubts, at times I believe things that are not true. I am still, (and I hate this) looking for acceptance. And you know what, the people around me give this to me all the time. So why and I still so bad? I wanted acceptance from my ex, I wanted validation that I was not crazy.

So just look inside yourself, what created this, what caused this?

Is therapy the best? Well maybe, and actually it is.......wasn't for me, I went there lying everytime about how much better I was, and how much I accomplished that week, and this and that ********, and they believed me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gabapentin, oh wow, my niece overdosed and almost died from that.

On one hand, I think that everyone knows what is best for them. But I am talking about a mental illness, trying to get the right cocktail in order.

EMRT,I think that is what you said,I know nothing about it, do know a little about CBT, and DBT, and EFT.

CBT did work a lot for me. It got me to understand that the person that was hurting me, was not doing it at me, but was doing it to himself actually.

So I guess in a long round about way, what I am saying, is find the cause of this, work on that, maybe have to work through I think there are 5 things to deal with in a situation like this. I don't know if I can remember the 5, but will try. Denial, Acceptance
Barganing, Guilt?, and I don't know what else..... perhaps, let go, let, god,you know que sera,sera. OK I know my 5 stages aren't right. But then again, maybe they are


Whatever caused the PTSD is the thing that you need to deal with. Not the symptoms, symptoms will go away (hopefully at some point), but what caused it !!!!!!! What are your triggers, how can you go about these triggers and still be OK?

I don't know what happened to you, and why you developed PTSD because of this. So what I am offering, is about me.

I found out that I had to accept my ex for who he was, I had to accept that he abused me, I had to forgive him, because it was eating away at me. So I forgave him, not for him, but for me.

again (((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))), and also nice to know that there is at least one other person who could not deals with SSRI's

Kialua

I haven't any experience with any meds save for one bout of Valium for agoraphobia that hit in college. But I was soon off those. I know I have suffered from PTS and have been super vigilant as well. My triggers are noise, I've talked about it before.

But what I do want to comment on is sugar use. I have been hooked big time on sugar for what ails me for decades. I have finally replaced it with Xylitol, Erithitol and Truvia blended together. And it's doing a great job. Natural sugars with low sugar alcohol and low insulin needs. That and limiting my carbs to under 100 a day has made a world of difference for me. I had been just on edge and needed to go, go, go or eat, eat, eat. Now I am calmer and in control. It's amazing. They say it will work for anyone and is good for pre-diabetic or diabetic as well.

Plath

Again, thank you everyone for your responses to this thread.

Kialua, I'm sure you're right about the sugar. When I stopped using sugar in my coffee and cut out sugary foods before, I felt so much better. Like you said, I felt more stable, more calm. So I'm going to try to do that again (but it's so hard!). I don't care for the unnatural sweeteners, so I think I'll have to learn how to drink my tea without any sweetener or even honey. It was much better when I basically put myself on a diabetic diet, and made sure to have plenty of protein, maybe a little bit of fruit or trailmix or something, every morning.

Amy, what you said about finding out where the triggers come from really rang a bell for me while I was reading your post. I am in total agreement with you on that one. For me (this is just my personal experience), I definitely feel like the medication is just putting a band aid on the symptoms, and not addressing the real issues that cause the symptoms to manifest.

When I thought about what triggers me, there are some obvious things that I work on in therapy, like people/situations that make me feel angry/defensive/resentful, etc.. Those aren't as difficult to unmask and deal with.

But when I thought for a moment about what triggers that underlying fear for me, I couldn't figure it out.

And then I realized that what triggers fear for me, in actuality, is LOVE. When I am feeling love for my son, my husband, or anyone really, I become hit with the overwhelming fear that something could happen to them that would hurt them, take them away from me, or that I could lose them in some way.

I have never addressed these fears, or even really quite realized that they were triggered by the fact that I was feeling a really happy emotion.
This feels like it comes from a place deep within my childhood experiences, and I don't know how to put a finger on it, except that I was, in a way, punished for loving anyone other than my mother when I was a child.

I loved my dad very much, and I was two years old when he and my mom divorced. My mom would say horrible things about him, even though he never said anything nasty about her, and was a really good father (he got remarried and I wasn't much a part of their lives for many years, but that's another story).
I remember how much it hurt me to hear my mom talking about my dad that way, and she would always add that I was just like him, etc. I think, to my child mind, she was hurting someone I loved, and therefore the people I loved couldn't be protected from harm.

It was a similar, although lesser experience when I would express love for my grandma and my aunt, who took care of me during the day while my mom was at work. I can remember one time that my mom was enraged that I didn't "love her more" than my grandma and my aunt, and when I stammered that I loved them "all the same", she got in my face and forced me to tell her that I loved her more than I loved them. I can remember that experience vividly, as it hurt me to my soul.

So, it's really sad to hear myself say it (or type it), but it's the feeling of love that triggers such deep, dark fears for me. It's like I'm afraid that people will be punished if I love them too much, or that I will be punished for loving other people too much.
Of course, my conscious mind realizes that that's not the case, but my inner child doesn't understand that.

I agree that, when I have begun to address this fear, weaning myself off of the clonazepam will probably not be quite as traumatic, as their won't be quite so many suppressed feelings surfacing during the withdrawal stage.

I'm so glad I posted this thread, and I'm very thankful for everyone's input. I had been questioning whether it was a good idea to post about the medication and professionals, but as it has resulted with this amazing gift of a revelation, I'm really glad that I did.

And it really is an amazing gift to have a revelation about my behaviors, because that means that I have a fighting chance to work through those feelings and not feel as though I'm lost in some sort of maze that I'm doomed to wander around in for the rest of my life.
Thank you all so much again. What a blessing to finally understand at least a good part of where all of my "irrational" fears stem from. They don't seem quite so irrational now that I look at it with the perspective I've gained.

Now to go about helping that inner child part of myself understand that love is beautiful, and no one will be punished because I love them.

Jur123

My mother used to say horrible things about my dad too, even though he was a good father (at least he was a much better father then she was a mother). For me and my sisters the harshest critisizm was that we were just like our father. She used to blame him for her nerve breakdowns and her addiction issues and somehow she managed to persuade us that it was true. My father passed away when I was 16 years of age and to be honest at that time I didn't even feel sorry as I thought that finally my mom was happy (she used to talk alot how she would like our father dead). Of course, his death didn't make things any better and turned to be the opposite i.e. things got even worse. She critisized him to such extent that my youngest sister who is a copy of our father started to hate her appearence and did a plastic surgery of her nose so that not to have "father's nose". Note, that my sister is a very good looking woman and it took her several years of councelling to realize that.

Plath

Thank you for sharing that, Jur. I'm sorry that you lost your father at such a young age, after having to experience the terrible feelings of hearing a parent be criticized relentlessly.

I think that for me, it has done way more damage to my psyche than maybe I had realized. I've experienced loss and grief in other areas of my life that undoubtedly contribute to the fear that something "bad" will happen to the people I love the most, but I have that "gut feeling" that most of my fears stem from my mother being so hurtful towards the people I love, and towards me for loving them.

Peace to you, and thank you again for sharing.

frances2011

Peace to you Plath. (((hug))) for your revelation, I hope this is a healing step for you.

Thx to all for sharing on this thread.

amy55

Thank you so much for that extremely heart searching post. It got me thinking also, that perhaps I do need to do a little more work on myself. Yes, I can blame my abusive marriage for a lot of it, but why did I stay for 27 years?

I also agree that medication is only a band aid. I did recognize this, you take the medication, while working on the problem, then you do the work on the problem, then you might not need the meds. I thought I did this, but realized that I didn't.

In a way, I built up walls around me. I refuse to get into another abusive relationship, so what I did was to buy a house, that I will never sell, so that I always had my own place, and no one will ever move in with me. So, I kinda shut myself down that way instead. I only let a few people step over that wall, and they are just the people that helped me, when I needed to leave my marriage. Must admit though, that it even took them a long time to earn my trust. They let me stay in their second house, rent free. I saw them on the weekends. Even when I left several times to try (yet again) to make my marriage work, they never put me down for trying, and held me when I was crying.

They loved me unconditionally. Something I wasn't used to, and couldn't figure out.

When I was growing up, my dad was an alcoholic. My mom couldn't stand him. Now I was the middle child, and my fathers favorite. My dad considered me as his "son". I'm female. So, whenever he actually did something around the house, I was his helper. At those times my mom would be "catering" to my 2 sisters, I guess because my dad was showing "me" his love, which they did not get.

Then when I would help my mom out with cooking, cleaning, whatever, my dad would not even acknowledge me. So I guess I was always competing for their love. I felt abandoned by one or the other each day. Always trying to do the right thing, but you can't, because you please one or the other. It brings on "perfectionism".

Then to top all of that off, my older sister would have been valedictorian in h.s, but she skipped h.s. when offered a full scholarship to college, my younger sister took the business course, and was number one in that. I was a measly 2nd or 3rd,in the business course. So I was the idiot in the family.

So, going into marriage, I had a fear of abandonment, needed approval, had to be perfect in order to be loved. So enough of me.

I didn't live your childhood, but part of the way that I accepted was to look at my father, and how he was raised, forgot to mention besides being an alcoholic he was also abusive to me, and possibly had asperberger's syndrome) was to realize that he was doing the best that he could. That he didn't know any different. That he was projecting unto me, what he felt. In a way, could be, that your mom felt abandoned, and unloved, and was afraid to lose you. (Just a suggestion, you know better than me),and my mom was just trying to be more loving to my 2 sisters because they weren't getting it from my father.

Plath

I agree with you, Amy. My mom had major problems of her own, due to her childhood. I know now that she truly did the best she could, and her intentions were actually really good. She just didn't know how to control herself, and ended up marrying a man who didn't like kids, and contributed to the emotionally and verbally abusive situation that already existed in my home.

I forgive my mom for the past, but there is still my inner child to consider. That part of me is still angry and afraid. And it would be easier to forgive my mom and have a bit more compassion for her in the present if she didn't continue a lot of her behaviors, etc. But it's easier now, for the most part.

She came over for an unexpected visit this past weekend (she does that a lot...calls and tells us that she's in town, with no warning), and I've noticed that it really stresses everyone out. I don't think it's necessarily her, but we're living in a very small apartment until we can secure a home for ourselves (hopefully that will be happening soon), and I think that the one additional person taking up space in the house is just too much for my husband.

So anyway, I couldn't comfortably reply to this post while she was here, and it's been a really stressful weekend.

But I'm thankful for the insight that I've gained, as now I can begin to work on some of the fears and the core reasons that they're there.

Thanks again to all for responding.