Sadconfused

I sat down to make a pro and con list for staying with ABF, the good things I get from the relationship and the bad. I have always been horrible at these kinds of things, I can never sort my thoughts out enough to list everything. Anyhow Ive been racking my brain and can't come up with any pro's other than he is a good father ( when he is sober) and he helps a lot financially. Everything else is stuff that he no longer is, it is all just memories of what used to be. Of course I can come up with a thousand cons. The sad part is, he has been doing really good with his drinking, he still drinks of course but he hasn't been getting wasted lately nor has he been arguemental yet I'm still not happy. I love him and care a lot but I'm not in love with him anymore and regardless of his soberity I don't think I ever will be again. I will always take a backseat to his stuff, his games, his drinking, his cars and so will his daughter. No one is as important to him as himself and that's something I doubt will ever change.

Learn2Live

This:
is an oxymoron.

And you have contradicted yourself by stating:

So please, recognize that this man is NOT a good father. Recognize how you are, and have been, fooling yourself by the way you think.

Sadconfused

I don't think I'm fooling myself, I have before but as time continues to pass my way of thinking becomes more and more clear. He is a decent father, he plays with her, teaches her, has patience and loves her. Of course he could be better as every parent could but he could be a lot worse. I'm not defending him because I'm foolish but because I know and see these things. I say he will always come first because that's just him, it was that way before the drinking ever started and it will always be that way I'm sure. He knows I am here to pick up his slack. I feel attacked for some reason and I don't need more negativity so I am going to bow out for a while. Thanks for the response.

marie1960

personally, I cannot fathom an active alkie being a "good father" it just cannot happen. He is an addict, addicts are not known to be a good role model, or able to offer stability.

I am sorry for what you are living. Just as the "pro" side of the sheet is blank for you today, it is also blank for your child. His addiction truly cannot add value to your child's life. We know the disease progresses, while he may appear to be a loving father today, it's just a matter of time before the disease affects her life too.

Think about how in years to come she would be to ashamed and embarrassed to have friends over, as dad is passed out on the couch. Or dad shows up at a school event reeking of booze, and being obnoxious.

Really no need to bow out, nobody is trying to offend, often it is difficult to convey our words in writing. Please know we care, and are not judging, merely sharing our experience of this horrid disease.

Sending you strength at this difficult time.

MsPINKAcres

i have shared before & I'll share it again - not to try to influence you - but to give you food for thought -

you say you have a daughter - i have 5 beautiful girls ~ now grown & living their own lives -

My sponsor asked me once when I was trying to make the decision to stay or leave, trying to figure out was it really an abusive relationship or not?? She said to picture my relationships as it was - with no changes, no wish it could be, no if he changes and then picture if this was my daughter in this relationship - would I want it for HER? Or would I view it as abusive and unhealthy for her?

My sponsor said ~ you are teaching your daughters what is acceptable behavior from a mate, partner and husband ~ they are learning from you what is tolerable ~
that it is ok to treat you and their child with disrepect, to discount them and as unimportant - even if it is the disease causing them to do so ~

Is this the message you want your daughters to learn and accept from their future boyfriends and possible husband?

Just my e, s, & h ~

Wishing you and your daughter the very best - YOU deserve it!

PINK HUGS,
Rita

ZiggyB

It sounds to me like you know it's over and are just avoiding the inevitable... I know how that is. Nothing was more important to axbf than going to the bars with his friends. Regardless of the reasons, your needs are not being met in this relationship and that's painful.

MsPINKAcres

please know that like Marie posted - we are just sharing out e, s, & h ~

no one is trying to be negative - it's a tough place - if it helps you feel better - I decided to leave my now ex AH, but it took me almost 2 yrs before it was able to happen ~ it's not easy to just wake up one day & just walk away ~ we know that ~

Please keep sharing and working on you - only YOU & YOUR HP can decide what is best for you ~ we can only share what worked for us - your path is between you & YOUR HP!!

PINK HUGS,
Rita

Sadconfused

Exactly what ZiggyB said, I realized its over. No matter what happens from this point, rather he gets clean and turns into mr perfect or not I'm over it. I can't get past what he has put me through and I will never look t him the same. That was the point of this post. Its painful. I know I am teaching my daughter that a drunken butthole is ok for a husband or I will be if I stay. It's a horrible cycle that I have experienced before with my own mother and it's not something I plan on letting her experience. I really appericate any input good or bad so I don't want to come off as mad or ungrateful, I'm just having a bad day.

marie1960

Please know we will be here for you, as you begin to sort things out.

As complicated as it is, for me, just knowing I was DONE, was a huge relief in itself. I was allowing myself to move forward without addiction ruling my world. Within a couple of weeks I could feel a difference. I was sleeping better. I did not wake up exhausted and dreading the day.

It will be rough for a bit, not going to lie, but when the elephant is no longer sitting on you, and you can actually breathe again, your life will be yours once again. hang in there.

Learn2Live

Sadconfused, I wasn't attacking you. I am sorry for my bluntness. I was pointing out that we so very often interpret what we see incorrectly, and our thoughts almost never jive with our feelings. We try to apply normal, healthy logic to a very sick person who neither thinks nor acts like a normal, healthy person. You know, my terminology was wrong. It wasn't an oxymoron but it is an obvious contradiction. It's like the folks who use the term, "functional alcoholic." An alcoholic cannot be "functional." By using this term, what people are doing is focusing on how the alcoholic has NOT been affected by his or her drinking, instead of acknowledging and accepting that this person is sick, dysfunctional, and affecting everyone in close contact with them. ESPECIALLY the children. I am an adult child of an alcoholic and I can tell you with no doubt or uncertainty in my mind, not ever having met your alcoholic spouse, that he is negatively affecting that child and she will have to struggle to try to overcome the effects of having an alcoholic parent, for the rest of her life. Do yourself a favor and go to an Al-Anon Adult Child of Alcoholics meeting. Just one. Or read a book on adult children of alcoholics. Or just google adult children of alcoholics or effects of growing up with an alcoholic parent.

Sadconfused

I know what you meant L2L, I am just on edge today. It's been a rough week. I know first hand what it's like to have an A parent. My dad has drank my entire life. I remember the anxiety I felt as a kid when I heard him come home and worrying about what was going to set him off. I know that I tolerate all of abf's BS because I have been desensitized To the drunken rants and abuse that come with A's. I don't want that do her and I am working towards changing it. I ws on my way home yesterday afternoon and as I rounded a turn on my rd I had this guy wrenching feeling and then the sudden urge to just tell him I was done, to just leave so I could be happy. I did nothing of course, I came in cooked dinner and kept to myself but I finally realize its over, I just need to find the courage to tell him.

OhBoy

This really struck home for me. My AW has been "doing better" with her drinking as well but the thing is she still acts like an alcoholic. Maybe some of behavior is better but she is still wrapped up in her disease. I know it is only a matter of time before she is back to "not doing better". The thing is if met her now instead of 18 years ago, I would have run away screaming as fast as I could! But I didn't and it is hard as hell to leave. I am not happy either. For me it is so very difficult to be happy living with this disease left unchecked. There are moments but the road has been so long & hard. It is hard for me to let go of the past & work on the future when the past has been so rough. I think my difficulty is knowing whether or not it is even possible to work on the future, or if it is too far gone. Will it be worth my efforts? It is a lot of work, should I just cut my losses now? At what point is it enough? I have to examine it, and I started my list yesterday & though I didn't come up empty on the pro side, it was very week! I will continue to work on my list & fill in the sides as I feel at that moment.

Thank you for the share, it is helping me look at my own situation a bit clearer. Best of luck,
OhBoy

Sadconfused

Ohboy, I have a lot of the same worries and questions or at least I did. I know he is going to slip back up, my guess is by the weekend. I am use to his patterns now, he will getting beyond drunk, act like a idiot, and do something stupid, the next morning he is prince charming, apologize, and promise to do better. He typically does, he will only drink a little for a week or so and then repeat. For that week he is somewhat back to himself but I still see it. I know he is battling that little voice telling him to have another. I just don't look at him as the same person I fell in love with. I know deep down it is him which is why I love him but the person I fell in love with is gone forever. It's hard and I'm sorry for anyone who has to experience it. I know there is happiness elsewhere, I know first hand yet I let the memory of a person keeping me in hell. I am thinking clearer than I ever have and I'm done. I really appericate all the responses, advice, and kind words.

ZiggyB

I have so been there... It is sad when alcohol destroys the relationship. My ex promised me he was going to cut back on his drinking and drink only in moderation, but guess what? He couldn't. Every crisis small or large was another excuse to be down at the bar. He lost his job and then would be drunk in the middle of the day blowing me off. Even when we would argue about his drinking he would hang out with his drinking buddies and drink more and then I would be abused more. I hated it and I feel sorry for anyone who has to go through this.

My therapist told me recently "Well, he's shown you who he is" and the question now is do you want to continue putting up him and his drinking for the rest of your life? No way, yucko. Find a man who is a grown up and not a rebellious teenager, that's my plan.

Tuffgirl

Thanks L2L for this. It is endemic to the loved ones of addicts. I know it took me a solid year to let go of the need to try to rationalize with an irrational person. I kept thinking if I just do this, he will do that, and all will be ok in my world again.

Truth is, there is no amount of rationalization that will change an irrational person to a rational one.

GettingBy

For years, I did had very similar conversations... I would highlight the issues... and then I would feel bad and back step with, "But he's a good father", "He's got a job."

The truth was... the two statements did not co-exist. He WAS an alcoholic... but he was NOT being a good father. He was not being consistent with his attention, discipline, behavior with the kids. He was not modeling good behavior for them. He was showing them how to disrespect me. Which was ironic because the one thing that used to **** him off was how disrespectful they were to me... he never understand that it was LEARNED behavior - that they got from HIM.

My XAH is still and active alcoholic. We are separate now and I SEE just how not good of a father he was. When left to his own choices, he's sporatic, at best, with the kids.

Cutting through MY denial was soooo hard. I wanted sooo badly to see my XAH as a good person. And he was, in part... but ultimately, he's an alcoholic who can not be depended on as a reliable partner or father figure. It's sad... but that's reality.

itsmylifenow

It's not a good sign when you have to make a pro's and con's list. Even less so when there aren't any pro's!

I've been there as well. If my xABF would have asked me what I loved about him, I wouldn't have an answer for him. I really didn't know. I believe he is an addiction to me and a comfort and I have a NEED for him. But, beyond anything else, I couldn't say anything.

I remember being able to list about 20 things for an exBF a few years ago of all the things I loved about him. It came easily, I didn't have to think about it, and it came from the heart.

Hard to find loving things about a person who verbally abuses you, is selfish and can't give you what you need.

Thumper

That is such a powerful sentiment and one that really helped me see the reality of my situation.

Ah yes. This is so true and really captures how I felt too.

Someone here responded to my post a long time ago and they really helped me understand that a good father will be a good father even if they are not married to their children's mother.

You will be a good mother even if you are divorced. I am actually a better divorced mother then I was a married mother because being married to an alcoholic did not foster good mothering traits in me (opposite actually). If your husband is a good father being married, he'll be a good father being divorced.

I also had to come to terms with the fact that I wasn't going to get the 'ideal situation' i wanted. Two healthy sober happily married parents were not on the menu. I had to choose from the available options and doing nothing was making a choice by default.

Learn2Live

So right. Especially when the other person is only looking out for himself and cares nothing about who they hurt, or how much.

I've been reading "Emotional Vampires," and see so much of AXBF in the Anti-Social Vampire Anti-Social Vampires. Reading this book is really opening up my eyes to the fact that these people just do not THINK like we do. We are conscientious and caring, and want to be dealt with by others the same way, but no amount of talking or begging or crying or rationalizing is ever going to make them see or care that what they do hurts us. It's every man for himself.

OK, sorry, didn't mean to hijack or anything, just sharing what is going through my brain.

Learn2Live

THANK YOU for this GettingBy. I really needed to read this today.