My 1st Post - Giving our son an ultimatum; I know its a mistake
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Caucasian;West Coast; Husband sometimes breathes fire; hence his nickname Dragon & mine Mrs. Dragon
Posts: 176
My 1st Post - Giving our son an ultimatum; I know its a mistake
A friend suggested that it might help me to talk about my situation, write out my feelings, talk to others who have similar issues. Ive never been on a web forum like this before, but Im assuming I change a few of the details to ensure privacy, and share what we are going through and how it makes me feel.
My son. He is at a crossroads but I don’t think he realizes it yet.
He is a remarkable 29 year old man. Has everything going for him professionally. Has had some traumatic personal events take place over the last year. Tragic loss of a loved one, ending of marriage to college sweetheart, lots of guilt, pain that he has suppressed by turning to drugs (cocaine) and alcohol. And now despite my disproval, my husband is going to take away the only thing he seems to care about; his work.
My son is employed by my husband’s company. Husband is setting it up to give him an ultimatum of a voluntary time off with agreement to get professional help, or he is out of a job. And in his field; he needs my husband’s recommendation to find a comparable position.
In my heart I already know what my son will do. He will walk away. But my husband is blind to that possibility and thinks he will realize there is too much at stake and will comply with his wishes. Neither of them are thinking rationally. My husband is going to be devastated, a wedge will be placed between all of us, and our son will lose the only reason he has had to keep from going over the edge.
I have to add that while we have both been in denial as to the severity of the drinking these last few months, the discovery of the drug use is what has opened our eyes and shown us how deeply troubled he really is. Right now my husband is in fact finding, proof gathering mode; as if having all this evidence to present to our son will make him open his eyes also. My greatest wish would be for that to happen sooner rather than later.
What I feel is that my husband is wrong in what he is doing. I also feel like he is minimizing my feelings, and it hurts. I know that he feels like he is doing the right thing, and he is trying to follow the advice given to us by the professionals; but I am not feeling it. He also thinks that he is calm, and not acting out of anger or fear but I can see him rotating between the two in his every action. I really feel like I may not be able to forgive him if this backfires and the relationship with our son is damaged because of it.
My son. He is at a crossroads but I don’t think he realizes it yet.
He is a remarkable 29 year old man. Has everything going for him professionally. Has had some traumatic personal events take place over the last year. Tragic loss of a loved one, ending of marriage to college sweetheart, lots of guilt, pain that he has suppressed by turning to drugs (cocaine) and alcohol. And now despite my disproval, my husband is going to take away the only thing he seems to care about; his work.
My son is employed by my husband’s company. Husband is setting it up to give him an ultimatum of a voluntary time off with agreement to get professional help, or he is out of a job. And in his field; he needs my husband’s recommendation to find a comparable position.
In my heart I already know what my son will do. He will walk away. But my husband is blind to that possibility and thinks he will realize there is too much at stake and will comply with his wishes. Neither of them are thinking rationally. My husband is going to be devastated, a wedge will be placed between all of us, and our son will lose the only reason he has had to keep from going over the edge.
I have to add that while we have both been in denial as to the severity of the drinking these last few months, the discovery of the drug use is what has opened our eyes and shown us how deeply troubled he really is. Right now my husband is in fact finding, proof gathering mode; as if having all this evidence to present to our son will make him open his eyes also. My greatest wish would be for that to happen sooner rather than later.
What I feel is that my husband is wrong in what he is doing. I also feel like he is minimizing my feelings, and it hurts. I know that he feels like he is doing the right thing, and he is trying to follow the advice given to us by the professionals; but I am not feeling it. He also thinks that he is calm, and not acting out of anger or fear but I can see him rotating between the two in his every action. I really feel like I may not be able to forgive him if this backfires and the relationship with our son is damaged because of it.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 267
I'm so sorry for whta you are going through.
The important thing to realize is that you can't force your son into treatment - your husband may well be devastated if he expects that his "offer" will convince your son to get treatment. If you employ a p[rofessional interventionist, you up the odds that your son will enter rehab for some period of time- but unless he's committed to recovery, he won't stay.
That said, if this was not your son, would you employ an active drug user? probably not. His job - and salary - are how he pays for drugs. By continuing to employ him, you are financing his habit.
Letting him know your boundaries- "we do not employ drug addicts, " "we won't support your habit," "we love you, and will support you while you are working on recovery"...are all good messages.
I would urge you and your husband to attend an AlAnon- or NarAnon- meeting or two before deciding how to approach your son.
The important thing to realize is that you can't force your son into treatment - your husband may well be devastated if he expects that his "offer" will convince your son to get treatment. If you employ a p[rofessional interventionist, you up the odds that your son will enter rehab for some period of time- but unless he's committed to recovery, he won't stay.
That said, if this was not your son, would you employ an active drug user? probably not. His job - and salary - are how he pays for drugs. By continuing to employ him, you are financing his habit.
Letting him know your boundaries- "we do not employ drug addicts, " "we won't support your habit," "we love you, and will support you while you are working on recovery"...are all good messages.
I would urge you and your husband to attend an AlAnon- or NarAnon- meeting or two before deciding how to approach your son.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 557
If your son is anything at all like I was around that time of my drinking, he might very well do as you say, as in walk away. BUT that being said, if he continues to drink, he's most likely going to do that anyway, and maybe pull others down with him.
The ONLY way I decided to do something about my drinking was when my parents stopped doing things to make it easier for me. The first time I got a DUI they bailed me out. After that they stopped making excuses to my bosses, friends and family. They paying for my bounced cheques and the second DUI they didn't come down to rescue me. As they were releasing me from the cells the next day, I suddenly realized that people weren't having anything to do with me any more and if I didn't want to be treated like an animal, I had to stop acting like one.
My advice, as an alcoholic son. Love your son enough to help him hit his personal bottom. Your husband is on the right track. Give him the ulimatum and then be prepared to carry it out. Don't give in. He's not going to get better until he has no other choice.
The ONLY way I decided to do something about my drinking was when my parents stopped doing things to make it easier for me. The first time I got a DUI they bailed me out. After that they stopped making excuses to my bosses, friends and family. They paying for my bounced cheques and the second DUI they didn't come down to rescue me. As they were releasing me from the cells the next day, I suddenly realized that people weren't having anything to do with me any more and if I didn't want to be treated like an animal, I had to stop acting like one.
My advice, as an alcoholic son. Love your son enough to help him hit his personal bottom. Your husband is on the right track. Give him the ulimatum and then be prepared to carry it out. Don't give in. He's not going to get better until he has no other choice.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,741
Welcome to SR. I am glad you found us yet sorry for the reasons. You have been given some wise words of advice. I as a mother of 2 AS (addicted sons) know how you feel but the truth is the longer we enable the longer it takes for them to hit their bottom.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 4,269
Originally Posted by MrsDragon 
My son. He is at a crossroads but I don’t think he realizes it yet.
He is a remarkable 29 year old man. Has everything going for him professionally. Has had some traumatic personal events take place over the last year. Tragic loss of a loved one, ending of marriage to college sweetheart, lots of guilt, pain that he has suppressed by turning to drugs (cocaine) and alcohol.
Alcoholism and addiction defy reason. Most have been drinking/drugging a lot longer than anyone knew or were told.
And now despite my disproval, my husband is going to take away the only thing he seems to care about; his work.
Alcoholism and addiction are progressive. Sooner or later it's all the addict will care about with or without a job.
I really feel like I may not be able to forgive him if this backfires and the relationship with our son is damaged because of it.
If your son is like most, he probably drives while he is loaded. Nothing quite like having a weapon of destruction at one's disposal. Every time your son buys/holds cocaine he is risking a felony conviction. Cocaine is a very sexual drug and opens the door to all sorts of indiscretions, including HIV and other STDs.
Mainstream employers do not tolerate addiction. And most addicts make lousy employees as addiction progresses. What's the alternative? Employ him forever, no matter what, cause to do otherwise might cause him to go off the deep end ?
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
As long as your husband say what he means and is prepared to mean what he says...I think that he is on the right track. Let your son be angry, he may fall to his knees and seek a strong recovery program.
Have you read Codependent No More? Are you going to Alanon meetings, if not I would
suggest that you do both.
Your son is an adult, his bad choices are his to deal with, not yours.
Your enabling him is not the answer, take some time to read all the stickeys in this and the Family & Friends of Substance Abusers, lots of great information at your fingertips.
IMHO you are attempting to think with your heart...not your head...
I know it hurts to have an alcoholic son, however, a united front is important...my mother is the "A" in my life...she is 86 and still hammering them down, she has lost everyone...she has no life...is that what you want for your son? I doubt it, knowledge is power, read, attend meetings and turn your son over to the higher power.
Have you read Codependent No More? Are you going to Alanon meetings, if not I would
suggest that you do both.
Your son is an adult, his bad choices are his to deal with, not yours.
Your enabling him is not the answer, take some time to read all the stickeys in this and the Family & Friends of Substance Abusers, lots of great information at your fingertips.
IMHO you are attempting to think with your heart...not your head...
I know it hurts to have an alcoholic son, however, a united front is important...my mother is the "A" in my life...she is 86 and still hammering them down, she has lost everyone...she has no life...is that what you want for your son? I doubt it, knowledge is power, read, attend meetings and turn your son over to the higher power.
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,691
welcome....and I am sorry for your situation.
I agree with the terms that your husband is going to offer your son in terms of his employment. In fact, I think that he is being very generous. I would not tolerate an employee that was in active addiction so personally, I think that he is doing the right thing.
I know this probably sounds like some tough consequences...but once you learn more about addiction and what is/isn't enabling it will begin to make more sense.
Your husband's offer may be rejected by your son but you can't control that. This is a journey that only your son can take......unfortunately, cocaine is a nasty drug. I would not do anything at all that enabled someone to keep using. Supplying a job while you know he is in active addiction is enabling.
I have a son that has addiction issues and I definitely know how difficult it is....I'm grateful for the program of Alanon and the people here at SR. There is a lot of wisdon on this board and you have a lot of kind and loving resources to help understand this horrible disease of addiction.
I agree with the terms that your husband is going to offer your son in terms of his employment. In fact, I think that he is being very generous. I would not tolerate an employee that was in active addiction so personally, I think that he is doing the right thing.
I know this probably sounds like some tough consequences...but once you learn more about addiction and what is/isn't enabling it will begin to make more sense.
Your husband's offer may be rejected by your son but you can't control that. This is a journey that only your son can take......unfortunately, cocaine is a nasty drug. I would not do anything at all that enabled someone to keep using. Supplying a job while you know he is in active addiction is enabling.
I have a son that has addiction issues and I definitely know how difficult it is....I'm grateful for the program of Alanon and the people here at SR. There is a lot of wisdon on this board and you have a lot of kind and loving resources to help understand this horrible disease of addiction.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PM me....
Posts: 468
In my humble opinion....I would seek the help and advice of a professional interventionist.
Let the focus be on treatment.......and keep the focus off of losing the job.
The loss of the job is nothing to an addict, other than the loss of easy income to maintain his drug habit. Loss of the job will be a needed and necessary bi-product of continuing in active addiction. Dangling the carrot of the job won't work. It just won't.
A professional interventionist can show you all of the intricate details and also the paradigm shift needed in your way of thinking.
You are accomplishing the same thing that your husband wants to do, but approaching with love, concern and compassion......rather than ultimatums, anger, etc.
You'll end up feeling better about the outcome and could very well make the difference between him actually going into treatment....or blowing off the handle and walking off.
Let the focus be on treatment.......and keep the focus off of losing the job.
The loss of the job is nothing to an addict, other than the loss of easy income to maintain his drug habit. Loss of the job will be a needed and necessary bi-product of continuing in active addiction. Dangling the carrot of the job won't work. It just won't.
A professional interventionist can show you all of the intricate details and also the paradigm shift needed in your way of thinking.
You are accomplishing the same thing that your husband wants to do, but approaching with love, concern and compassion......rather than ultimatums, anger, etc.
You'll end up feeling better about the outcome and could very well make the difference between him actually going into treatment....or blowing off the handle and walking off.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
And now despite my disproval, my husband is going to take away the only thing he seems to care about; his work.
We are powerless over someone else's addiction. It just progresses and progresses until the addict chooses to seek recovery. And in order for an addict to want recovery, the pain and loss caused by using drugs/alcohol has to feel worse than the pain and loss caused by not using drugs.
As long as you or your husband are protecting your son from the natural consequences of addiction (like losing your job) he most likely will not be able to experience the pain that may drive him towards recovery.
I'm sorry it's tearing you up inside. But no matter what you or your husband do (job or no job) you can't stop your son from using drugs and you can't force him to want to get better. All you can do is set firm boundaries about the kinds of employees you will let work for you and the kinds of treatment and behavior you will accept from the people in your life, including your children. And as long as you are willing to accept cocaine addiction in your life and in your workplace, there will be no change.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Eastern U.S.
Posts: 64
Mrs. Dragon... I read FredG's post tonight. Lots of insight for me FredG and may be for you Mrs. Dragon.
Mrs. Dragon -- Read these posts and try to let all of the information sink in. Your son is 29 and there is hope. Your husband (employer) has the right to fire your son (employee) for drug/alcohol abuse. Companies are offering employees help for recovery such as your husband is offering your son. I think it is kind of your husband to love your son unconditionally enough to 'let him go'.
Our son, married (bad marriage), with two children at 40 years old was arrested 3 times within 3 years on DUIs. Very serious penalties, i.e. DUI 3 a Felony. He was in jail for 4 months, released on bond for rehab of 6 weeks, back for court appearance, released on bond and has two court appearances this Thursday and Friday. We do not know what will happen.
This is what we tried doing about 5 years ago...encouraging our son to visit a drug/alcohol center for evaluation. He was asked to stay. He said he could not stay as a self employed person. Life went on as usual for everyone, including their totally dysfunctional family (with two little kids). Over the past couple years we talked and encouraged him to go for help. Finally, as I mentioned above he was arrested on DUI 3. Last time we saw him was a week ago on Sunday when my husband picked up my son, returned him to jail as agreed in the Bond. HEART WRENCHING for my husband. He is on bond now and is communicating by phone and email. I have said my piece and my Alcoholic (because he is not my son as we know him) son is telling me I am just mean and cruel. I am not to get involved in his business. I think he is drinking and he says he is not. He is. Can you believe he is drinking after Rehab, DUI 3 (facing Felony), his dad and I taking care of all the mess he left when he was arrested on the DUI 3... car impound, bonding, rehab cost.
BOTTOM LINE -- WE WERE ENABLING. NOT GOOD! We stopped as of now. We have his children visiting and their mom will have them back on Friday. We are closing the door to our relationship with our Alcoholic until our son emerges. By enabling, we are forcing our Alcoholic lower and possibly to death (That is how I am looking at it).
I have to throw this in because alcoholism/addicts does happen to good families. My son and wife are professionals. His wife is malevolent; however, not the reason for my son being an alcoholic. Very sad. His children are so happy here with us and need their dad. They adore him. How sad...
I believe if I could have had the strength and KNOWN FOR SURE I could not help or stop our son...and 'if' we would have listened 'don't enable'... our son would have been better off.
Tonight my Alcoholic Son doesn't want us telling our family of his alcoholism; however, his wive's family knows the entire situation. Our friends in our hometown know he over indulged for years. He wants us to stay out of his business...he has many nasty things to say to us.
Bottom line...try and help and all of it comes around to bite you in the fanny. To top that off, your Alcoholic/addict doesn't recover. Who suffers???
We will be here when our son emerges. With faith and hope...he will get through this but that is all we can offer is prayer.
Be your husband's partner...be strong together and you two will get through this.
My husband and I have had a real rough 5 months and after 41 years of marriage, I wasn't sure what was going to happen to our marriage. I am sad... I feel a great loss 'my son'.
Mrs. Dragon -- Read these posts and try to let all of the information sink in. Your son is 29 and there is hope. Your husband (employer) has the right to fire your son (employee) for drug/alcohol abuse. Companies are offering employees help for recovery such as your husband is offering your son. I think it is kind of your husband to love your son unconditionally enough to 'let him go'.
Our son, married (bad marriage), with two children at 40 years old was arrested 3 times within 3 years on DUIs. Very serious penalties, i.e. DUI 3 a Felony. He was in jail for 4 months, released on bond for rehab of 6 weeks, back for court appearance, released on bond and has two court appearances this Thursday and Friday. We do not know what will happen.
This is what we tried doing about 5 years ago...encouraging our son to visit a drug/alcohol center for evaluation. He was asked to stay. He said he could not stay as a self employed person. Life went on as usual for everyone, including their totally dysfunctional family (with two little kids). Over the past couple years we talked and encouraged him to go for help. Finally, as I mentioned above he was arrested on DUI 3. Last time we saw him was a week ago on Sunday when my husband picked up my son, returned him to jail as agreed in the Bond. HEART WRENCHING for my husband. He is on bond now and is communicating by phone and email. I have said my piece and my Alcoholic (because he is not my son as we know him) son is telling me I am just mean and cruel. I am not to get involved in his business. I think he is drinking and he says he is not. He is. Can you believe he is drinking after Rehab, DUI 3 (facing Felony), his dad and I taking care of all the mess he left when he was arrested on the DUI 3... car impound, bonding, rehab cost.
BOTTOM LINE -- WE WERE ENABLING. NOT GOOD! We stopped as of now. We have his children visiting and their mom will have them back on Friday. We are closing the door to our relationship with our Alcoholic until our son emerges. By enabling, we are forcing our Alcoholic lower and possibly to death (That is how I am looking at it).
I have to throw this in because alcoholism/addicts does happen to good families. My son and wife are professionals. His wife is malevolent; however, not the reason for my son being an alcoholic. Very sad. His children are so happy here with us and need their dad. They adore him. How sad...
I believe if I could have had the strength and KNOWN FOR SURE I could not help or stop our son...and 'if' we would have listened 'don't enable'... our son would have been better off.
Tonight my Alcoholic Son doesn't want us telling our family of his alcoholism; however, his wive's family knows the entire situation. Our friends in our hometown know he over indulged for years. He wants us to stay out of his business...he has many nasty things to say to us.
Bottom line...try and help and all of it comes around to bite you in the fanny. To top that off, your Alcoholic/addict doesn't recover. Who suffers???
We will be here when our son emerges. With faith and hope...he will get through this but that is all we can offer is prayer.
Be your husband's partner...be strong together and you two will get through this.
My husband and I have had a real rough 5 months and after 41 years of marriage, I wasn't sure what was going to happen to our marriage. I am sad... I feel a great loss 'my son'.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Eastern U.S.
Posts: 64
In our case our son grew further away (forced people away who loved and cared for him; good friends and family). Finally he has gotten to the point that he doesn't care about anything except himself.
Our son would give his shirt off his back for any of us.
Amazing what alcohol does...or Xanax!
Our son would give his shirt off his back for any of us.
Amazing what alcohol does...or Xanax!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Eastern U.S.
Posts: 64
FredG - how do we love our son enough (without enabling) to let him hit his personal bottom. We try to listen/talk with him so he knows we are here for him...but we are beginning to feel that was enabling him.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: new moon road
Posts: 1,545
MrsDragon,
This is a quote from the book, "Alcoholics Anonymous," from the chapter entitled "To Employers":
"It boils right down to this: No man should be fired just because he is an alcoholic. If he wants to stop, he should be afforded a real chance. If he cannot or does not want to stop, he should be discharged." (page 148).
The entire "Big Book" of AA is available to read online at Big Book Online Fourth Edition. Reading it may be of help to both you and your husband.
My guess is that the founder of AA, Bill W., would say that if your son refuses the offer of treatment as a requirement to keep his job, then he should be fired. But you can read the AA Big Book for yourself, online, or through ordering a copy from any online bookstore, and decide for yourself.
It is my understanding that of all the people in an alcoholic or drug addict's life, it is the employer who has the most leverage to persuade the addict into treatment.
This is a quote from the book, "Alcoholics Anonymous," from the chapter entitled "To Employers":
"It boils right down to this: No man should be fired just because he is an alcoholic. If he wants to stop, he should be afforded a real chance. If he cannot or does not want to stop, he should be discharged." (page 148).
The entire "Big Book" of AA is available to read online at Big Book Online Fourth Edition. Reading it may be of help to both you and your husband.
My guess is that the founder of AA, Bill W., would say that if your son refuses the offer of treatment as a requirement to keep his job, then he should be fired. But you can read the AA Big Book for yourself, online, or through ordering a copy from any online bookstore, and decide for yourself.
It is my understanding that of all the people in an alcoholic or drug addict's life, it is the employer who has the most leverage to persuade the addict into treatment.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Jungle
Posts: 5,435
Hey there. Welcome to SR......it is really tough to have to face the issues of alcoholism or addiction in someone you love so very much. My son is also an addict. He is 31.
I will not tell you what you should do but I will share a small piece of my story. Take from it what you will.
I was a classic enabling mother to my son. I made excuses for him. And felt that I understood why he would turn to drugs and alcohol--he had some good "reasons". My denial and excuses made it easy for him to continue. I would cajole and try to reason. I simply couldn't understand how a man so intelligent could possibly keep making these mistakes and not see what he was doing to himself and those around him who loved him. He worked for my husband and I and his job required him to drive our company vehicles. It could have been quite a disaster.
The disease progressed. We paid for treatment. In patient two times. Out patient two times. We gave him ultimatums. But I was always the soft one.....eventually, we had to fire him because his drug use continued. We couldn't put our company and our other employees at risk.
This put a lot of strain on our marriage. But my husband was the only one who was really thinking straight. He knew that if he got between me and my son......it would be no different than getting between an addict and his DOC.....he would become the enemy. He stood back and loved us without becoming emeshed in the dysfunction.
To make my long story short.......I eventually lost my grandson (my AS's son) due to the dysfunctional relationship between my son and I. I can't see him anymore because his mother doesn't want the child to have anything to do with his paternal family. My son has abandoned his beautiful child. I decided at that moment that I wouldn't let this disease destroy one more relationship. It took the loss of my grandson to finally realize that I did not want to trade all of my healthy relationships for one unhealthy, codependent one.
I had to learn to let go.....or be dragged.
I found peace in my decisions in reading, here on SR and in the rooms of Al-Anon and Nar-Anon. I love my son.....but he is an adult. He has a right to live his life without my interference--even if I disagree with it. The more I tried to control him--the more he tried to prove to me that I could not.
Looking back on it.....I wish that my husband and I had taken a firm and united stand.
Unless there is a reason for you to make a decision today.......take your time. Read. Study. Go to meetings. Talk to recovering addicts or alcoholics. This is a cunning and baffling disease and it will take down the uninformed.
gentle hugs
ke
I will not tell you what you should do but I will share a small piece of my story. Take from it what you will.
I was a classic enabling mother to my son. I made excuses for him. And felt that I understood why he would turn to drugs and alcohol--he had some good "reasons". My denial and excuses made it easy for him to continue. I would cajole and try to reason. I simply couldn't understand how a man so intelligent could possibly keep making these mistakes and not see what he was doing to himself and those around him who loved him. He worked for my husband and I and his job required him to drive our company vehicles. It could have been quite a disaster.
The disease progressed. We paid for treatment. In patient two times. Out patient two times. We gave him ultimatums. But I was always the soft one.....eventually, we had to fire him because his drug use continued. We couldn't put our company and our other employees at risk.
This put a lot of strain on our marriage. But my husband was the only one who was really thinking straight. He knew that if he got between me and my son......it would be no different than getting between an addict and his DOC.....he would become the enemy. He stood back and loved us without becoming emeshed in the dysfunction.
To make my long story short.......I eventually lost my grandson (my AS's son) due to the dysfunctional relationship between my son and I. I can't see him anymore because his mother doesn't want the child to have anything to do with his paternal family. My son has abandoned his beautiful child. I decided at that moment that I wouldn't let this disease destroy one more relationship. It took the loss of my grandson to finally realize that I did not want to trade all of my healthy relationships for one unhealthy, codependent one.
I had to learn to let go.....or be dragged.
I found peace in my decisions in reading, here on SR and in the rooms of Al-Anon and Nar-Anon. I love my son.....but he is an adult. He has a right to live his life without my interference--even if I disagree with it. The more I tried to control him--the more he tried to prove to me that I could not.
Looking back on it.....I wish that my husband and I had taken a firm and united stand.
Unless there is a reason for you to make a decision today.......take your time. Read. Study. Go to meetings. Talk to recovering addicts or alcoholics. This is a cunning and baffling disease and it will take down the uninformed.
gentle hugs
ke
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Caucasian;West Coast; Husband sometimes breathes fire; hence his nickname Dragon & mine Mrs. Dragon
Posts: 176
Thank you to everyone who replied; I appreciate the thoughtfulness and all the personal responses I received.
My husband and I have discussed the situation with professionals who specialize in substance abuse, so I do understand the concept of enabling. It sounds quite simple to say that if he chooses to use drugs, then he cannot maintain his employment with my husbands company. Stretching that out… he will then not be receiving a paycheck, and we will not be enabling by providing him money for drugs. I am supposed to feel confident that this is what is necessary to speed up his pain & suffering, so he is uncomfortable enough to seek change. I am supposed to feel like I am doing something good for him.
However, in my sons situation, the loss of this income will not deter his use of substances. Even if he is unable to find similar employment, he will still be financially stable. He will still be able to keep up his current lifestyle for a very long time. It will however have a large emotional impact on him and I fear make him slip more into these activities. For example, he will be able to stay out all night and party, and not have to worry about showing up for work, or being prepared for meetings. He will enlarge his entourage of women who prance in and out of his house. His work on the other hand, provides all positive reinforcements for him, and places structure in his life.
My son does care about his career; right now he is highly functional. His work is still the one thing that he has interest in. According to my husband however, there have been some major issues at work; questionable business interactions, illegal activity that only my husband is aware of. My husband and I both agree that because of the substance abuse, he is psychologically incapable of realizing he is destroying his career, jeopardizing the entire business. If it was anyone except his son, there would be legal consequences. Preventing him from accepting these consequences is enabling; but my husband accepts this. I accept this. We want to protect him where we can; neither of us feel that his future should be damaged because of what will hopefully be a short term lapse of judgement. But, my husband is quite clear that he can no longer work there unless he agrees to a voluntary leave of absence in which time he will complete inpatient treatment, and prove he is stable and with an ongoing plan of recovery.
My husband has dealt with situations similar to this with others in the business. There are policies in place to handle it through human resources. But somehow formal policies are not sufficient when its your own child, and so its not going to be handled by that policy. We have already discussed that he cannot actually terminate his employment. For example, he needs his medical coverage especially now.
I want to protect him. I want him close, so that we can solve his problems, fix his mistakes, keep him from experiencing consequences that others might inflict upon him. I want to provide plush walls that he can bounce against instead of hitting the concrete while he is lost. Maybe it would be easier if there was a history of problems, or a wild childhood that we had to deal with. But none of that ever happened. He has always been on top of everything, loving, reliable, loyal to family, a pleasure to be around. Months ago when all this started, we just assumed it was some phase he was going through because of his recent losses. We heard rumors he was out at clubs, and dating lots of different women. Met a few of them when he brought them around. Always someone new, but never anyone who by appearances would make a mom do a double take. We assumed he was drinking and that was the end of it. But now what we think is that mostly it is the cocaine, and he has just been using alcohol as a sidekick, or when he’s out at a social gathering where he cant have immediate access to the drug. Neither of us have ever seen him drink too much; but we have both seen him gravitate towards the liquor cabinet at family functions. Never beer, always harder liquor; but that is my husbands choice also. And no, he has no issues with drink. There is no family history of any substance abuse.
So for now, I have been stirring with the idea of telling my son what his father is planning. That goes against unity in the situation, it goes against what the professionals say, but as a mom … I still have that urge.
My husband and I have discussed the situation with professionals who specialize in substance abuse, so I do understand the concept of enabling. It sounds quite simple to say that if he chooses to use drugs, then he cannot maintain his employment with my husbands company. Stretching that out… he will then not be receiving a paycheck, and we will not be enabling by providing him money for drugs. I am supposed to feel confident that this is what is necessary to speed up his pain & suffering, so he is uncomfortable enough to seek change. I am supposed to feel like I am doing something good for him.
However, in my sons situation, the loss of this income will not deter his use of substances. Even if he is unable to find similar employment, he will still be financially stable. He will still be able to keep up his current lifestyle for a very long time. It will however have a large emotional impact on him and I fear make him slip more into these activities. For example, he will be able to stay out all night and party, and not have to worry about showing up for work, or being prepared for meetings. He will enlarge his entourage of women who prance in and out of his house. His work on the other hand, provides all positive reinforcements for him, and places structure in his life.
My son does care about his career; right now he is highly functional. His work is still the one thing that he has interest in. According to my husband however, there have been some major issues at work; questionable business interactions, illegal activity that only my husband is aware of. My husband and I both agree that because of the substance abuse, he is psychologically incapable of realizing he is destroying his career, jeopardizing the entire business. If it was anyone except his son, there would be legal consequences. Preventing him from accepting these consequences is enabling; but my husband accepts this. I accept this. We want to protect him where we can; neither of us feel that his future should be damaged because of what will hopefully be a short term lapse of judgement. But, my husband is quite clear that he can no longer work there unless he agrees to a voluntary leave of absence in which time he will complete inpatient treatment, and prove he is stable and with an ongoing plan of recovery.
My husband has dealt with situations similar to this with others in the business. There are policies in place to handle it through human resources. But somehow formal policies are not sufficient when its your own child, and so its not going to be handled by that policy. We have already discussed that he cannot actually terminate his employment. For example, he needs his medical coverage especially now.
I want to protect him. I want him close, so that we can solve his problems, fix his mistakes, keep him from experiencing consequences that others might inflict upon him. I want to provide plush walls that he can bounce against instead of hitting the concrete while he is lost. Maybe it would be easier if there was a history of problems, or a wild childhood that we had to deal with. But none of that ever happened. He has always been on top of everything, loving, reliable, loyal to family, a pleasure to be around. Months ago when all this started, we just assumed it was some phase he was going through because of his recent losses. We heard rumors he was out at clubs, and dating lots of different women. Met a few of them when he brought them around. Always someone new, but never anyone who by appearances would make a mom do a double take. We assumed he was drinking and that was the end of it. But now what we think is that mostly it is the cocaine, and he has just been using alcohol as a sidekick, or when he’s out at a social gathering where he cant have immediate access to the drug. Neither of us have ever seen him drink too much; but we have both seen him gravitate towards the liquor cabinet at family functions. Never beer, always harder liquor; but that is my husbands choice also. And no, he has no issues with drink. There is no family history of any substance abuse.
So for now, I have been stirring with the idea of telling my son what his father is planning. That goes against unity in the situation, it goes against what the professionals say, but as a mom … I still have that urge.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 499
Originally Posted by MrsDragon
I want to protect him. I want him close, so that we can solve his problems, fix his mistakes, keep him from experiencing consequences that others might inflict upon him. I want to provide plush walls that he can bounce against instead of hitting the concrete while he is lost. Maybe it would be easier if there was a history of problems, or a wild childhood that we had to deal with. But none of that ever happened. He has always been on top of everything, loving, reliable, loyal to family, a pleasure to be around. Months ago when all this started, we just assumed it was some phase he was going through because of his recent losses. We heard rumors he was out at clubs, and dating lots of different women. Met a few of them when he brought them around. Always someone new, but never anyone who by appearances would make a mom do a double take. We assumed he was drinking and that was the end of it. But now what we think is that mostly it is the cocaine, and he has just been using alcohol as a sidekick, or when he’s out at a social gathering where he cant have immediate access to the drug. Neither of us have ever seen him drink too much; but we have both seen him gravitate towards the liquor cabinet at family functions. Never beer, always harder liquor; but that is my husbands choice also. And no, he has no issues with drink. There is no family history of any substance abuse.
So for now, I have been stirring with the idea of telling my son what his father is planning. That goes against unity in the situation, it goes against what the professionals say, but as a mom … I still have that urge.
So for now, I have been stirring with the idea of telling my son what his father is planning. That goes against unity in the situation, it goes against what the professionals say, but as a mom … I still have that urge.
I know it sounds really harsh, and I'm sorry you're going through this, but that's just how addiction works. A drug addict is not going to suddenly stop desiring their DoC because someone wishes it hard enough for them.
I watch my mom do this with my sister over and over, creating terminally unique exception after exception for her case and guess what? She is still a drug addict. She will continue to be one until hopefully there comes a day when nobody is around to pick up after her and she makes the tough decision to get help. Until then there is just no reason for her to stop using - mom and dad will take care of financial emergencies, auto emergencies, medical emergencies, whatever trouble she creates for herself. It must be awfully nice to be an adult and never have to act like one.
I can say that if I knew that someone at my company was endangering ANYONE by using at work, it would very quickly become an HR issue.
Last edited by interrupted; 08-21-2012 at 11:05 AM. Reason: Clarification
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,741
I want to protect him. I want him close, so that we can solve his problems, fix his mistakes, keep him from experiencing consequences that others might inflict upon him. I want to provide plush walls that he can bounce against instead of hitting the concrete while he is lost
This should simply say I want to ENABLE.
So for now, I have been stirring with the idea of telling my son what his father is planning. That goes against unity in the situation, it goes against what the professionals say, but as a mom … I still have that urge.
I do hope you can find a way to not act on that urge why cause more chaos than is necessary your all going through enough.
There is no family history of any substance abuse.
There doesn't always have to be but is it possible that somewhere in the family line there was alcoholism that people looked over?
I as a mom understand how you feel and my heart breaks for you with that said all the advice you have been given and all that have shared their stories are the best way too handle this IMO,
Sometimes we can love our kids to death.
This should simply say I want to ENABLE.
So for now, I have been stirring with the idea of telling my son what his father is planning. That goes against unity in the situation, it goes against what the professionals say, but as a mom … I still have that urge.
I do hope you can find a way to not act on that urge why cause more chaos than is necessary your all going through enough.
There is no family history of any substance abuse.
There doesn't always have to be but is it possible that somewhere in the family line there was alcoholism that people looked over?
I as a mom understand how you feel and my heart breaks for you with that said all the advice you have been given and all that have shared their stories are the best way too handle this IMO,
Sometimes we can love our kids to death.
Canine Welfare Advocate
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 10,962
So sorry for what you are going through.
I am sure it goes against every instinct of a mother, but you cannot, must not do this.
I'm not sure you understand enabling, or if you do, how you could ignore the fact that you are doing it:
"Enabling is a term used in 12 step recovery to describe the behavior of family members, or other loved ones, who rescue an alcoholic or drug addict from the consequences of their own self destructive behavior."
taken from--http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ough-love.html
Originally Posted by MrsDragon
I want to protect him. I want him close, so that we can solve his problems, fix his mistakes, keep him from experiencing consequences that others might inflict upon him. I want to provide plush walls that he can bounce against instead of hitting the concrete while he is lost.
I'm not sure you understand enabling, or if you do, how you could ignore the fact that you are doing it:
"Enabling is a term used in 12 step recovery to describe the behavior of family members, or other loved ones, who rescue an alcoholic or drug addict from the consequences of their own self destructive behavior."
taken from--http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ough-love.html
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,698
"I want to protect him. I want him close, so that we can solve his problems, fix his mistakes, keep him from experiencing consequences that others might inflict upon him. I want to provide plush walls that he can bounce against instead of hitting the concrete while he is lost. Maybe it would be easier if there was a history of problems, or a wild childhood that we had to deal with. But none of that ever happened. He has always been on top of everything, loving, reliable, loyal to family, a pleasure to be around. Months ago when all this started, we just assumed it was some phase he was going through because of his recent losses. We heard rumors he was out at clubs, and dating lots of different women. Met a few of them when he brought them around. Always someone new, but never anyone who by appearances would make a mom do a double take. We assumed he was drinking and that was the end of it. But now what we think is that mostly it is the cocaine, and he has just been using alcohol as a sidekick, or when he’s out at a social gathering where he cant have immediate access to the drug. Neither of us have ever seen him drink too much; but we have both seen him gravitate towards the liquor cabinet at family functions. Never beer, always harder liquor; but that is my husbands choice also. And no, he has no issues with drink. There is no family history of any substance abuse.
So for now, I have been stirring with the idea of telling my son what his father is planning. That goes against unity in the situation, it goes against what the professionals say, but as a mom … I still have that urge."Dear Mrs. Dragon, I understand how you feel and I did all of the things you mention above. It didn't bode well AT ALL. My sons disease continued to progress and since he is very young (22), he experienced no consequences with his actions. I wish and wish that I would have stoped my behavior much sooner when the drug use first started. Trust me when I say our children need to grow up and that is largely our job to step away and allow them to go through life making the mistakes they NEED to make. He will not stop doing drugs just because you know its best for him. In fact, he may escalate his drug use in an effort to separate himself from you.
Please keep reading here and try to get to an Alanon or Naranon meeting and PLEASE don't try to control this situation by telling your son behind your husbands back.
We are all here for you so please keep reaching out.
Teresa
So for now, I have been stirring with the idea of telling my son what his father is planning. That goes against unity in the situation, it goes against what the professionals say, but as a mom … I still have that urge."Dear Mrs. Dragon, I understand how you feel and I did all of the things you mention above. It didn't bode well AT ALL. My sons disease continued to progress and since he is very young (22), he experienced no consequences with his actions. I wish and wish that I would have stoped my behavior much sooner when the drug use first started. Trust me when I say our children need to grow up and that is largely our job to step away and allow them to go through life making the mistakes they NEED to make. He will not stop doing drugs just because you know its best for him. In fact, he may escalate his drug use in an effort to separate himself from you.
Please keep reading here and try to get to an Alanon or Naranon meeting and PLEASE don't try to control this situation by telling your son behind your husbands back.
We are all here for you so please keep reaching out.
Teresa
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Addiction does not discriminate. Untreated addiction is a progressive illness whose ends are always the same: jails, institutions, and death.
I am sorry for your situation!! Please listen to the professionals! There is such a thing as loving our kids too much. In dealing with addiction, we can love them to death!!
I am sorry for your situation!! Please listen to the professionals! There is such a thing as loving our kids too much. In dealing with addiction, we can love them to death!!
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