wywriter

For months I shadowed these boards, and often posted my long, frustrated and utterly hopeless posts about my AH, who seemed to be headed very quickly for an early grave. Since then, he found his bottom, which stopped (barely) short of death, and landed him in jail for two months for a DUI, with a few other charges piled on top. Since then, he's been going to AA nearly every day. He has two sponsors, and often chairs meetings. He has now been voted in as the secretary for his home group. Today (or, yesterday now, technically) he received his 6-month token. While some may say six months is far too little to know, it's very apparent to me that he is changed on a profound level. I've seen him dry before, and this definitely isn't it. I can talk to him now, and he talks to me openly about his past, about the seven dry years he had before deciding he was "past all that" and could drink again -- only to end up in the five-year drunken downhill slide that I have described in detail in the past from the codie side of things. Even if I bring up subjects he doesn't like, the angry outbursts that used to be so commonplace are gone. He takes care of the kids, does housework, cooks, he starts a new job next week (the first in two years), and money sits in plain sight until it's needed for gas, or baby formula, or cigarettes.

Life couldn't be better, but...oh yeah, there's always one of those...I find myself still struggling with a lot of things from the past. I told myself that time would help heal the wounds, and that I should just revel in the present and his living amends and my own efforts toward my health would help that to go away. For the most part it has. However, for these past months I've been struggling hard with some of the things he said and did while drunk, that I don't even think he knows he did considering the extreme level of his intoxication during those times. He has been indifferent to me on an intimate level, and most of the time I can assure myself that he's focusing on his recovery, we lead hectic lives of self-employment and young children, etc. etc. But sometimes the past name-calling, the violence, the belittling and all the other things that are so out-of-character for him when there's no bottle involved comes bubbling up. I've spent several nights wondering what, if anything, I can discuss with him that might be constructive.

Thankfully, I don't feel that anything I say or do will threaten his sobriety or any such concerns that I see from a lot of people with SOs new to recovery, but I don't want to hurt him for something that could just be something I need to deal with myself. I feel like I need to hear him tell me which things he really meant and which he didn't mean, and I haven't yet found a way to not need it. I try so hard to rely only on myself for my own happiness, but when I'm alone in my thoughts I still hear his drunken insults and am still living with the reality of feeling more like his best friend or even sibling, and not his wife. I've mentioned the eight-month lack of any hint of intimate talk or behavior (keeping it PG here), and he just tells me I'm making a big deal out of nothing. It's not nothing to me...it's important, and mostly I just want to know it's not because of something wrong with me, or maybe now that he's sober he realizes he isn't quite as fond of me as he thought.

Wow, that was long...to sum up, I'd love to hear from anyone who would like to share some of their experiences in the first months or years in recovery. Is this just normal, and I really am being hyper-hormonal and overreacting? I really don't know why it matters so much to me now after so much time he spent passed out or mean, except that maybe now I can't point to any other problems except myself.

JACKRUSSELLGIRL

Morning!

I am rebuilding my relationship with my hubby too and read something yesterday in the Al-Anon One Day at a Time book that I thought you might find helpful.

Here it is..

SOme of us had a long list of grievances against the alcoholic, especially while the drinking was still active. The worst possible thing we can do is to remember them, dwell on them, and polish up our halos or martyrdom. The very best we can do is to erase them from memory, so each new day becomes an opprtunity to make things better.

It is not my assignment to keep an inventory of my spouse's faults and misbehaviors. My task is to watch for my own and root them out, so that what I say and do will help make things better for me and my family.

I am not saying that you are not entitled to your feelings and should not address things that have happened in the past (while he was active) but that I too held on to some of those memories that do not apply to me today. My hubby has changed in the past year and does not behave or act anything like he did during his active days. I find to keep re living them has no purpose for me today.

I hope things work out for you and your hubby and you relationship is restored to what works for you guys. Wishing you a happy and healthy future.

ShootingStar1

What about marriage counseling sometime in the future? You might want to wait until a year, and/or you sense some readiness in your RAH to deal directly with intimacy and your marriage. It could be that he's got enough on his plate right now to handle and isn't ready to tackle those really tough issues between the two of you.

In the meantime, you could go to Alanon regularly and follow the step program and take care of you.

So glad that your life is improving so much!

BothSidesNow

dancingnow

Marriage counseling is an option and what that might do is help you come to some middle ground on this. Let's face it when my RAH discounts or belittles how I am feeling by telling me it's not a big deal, that only makes it worse.

It took many marriage counseling sessions for my RAH to let me know that he is not ready to address our intimacy issues. I am not okay with that but it is what it is.

Now that he is better able to express how he feels instead of telling me that what I want or feel is no big deal I am able to let some of the past behavior go. As JR previous post said, it does no good for me to hold on and hit him with a list of grievances that do not apply today. That is not going to get us anywhere closer to intimacy.

BTW we did go to that new Meryl Streep movie, Hope Springs and although there was no history of alcoholism the lack of intimacy between the man and woman seemed very relevant to me. Maybe I could relate because we are not too far from that age though too.

Anyhow, from what my RAH tells me, it is not uncommon for A's to feel numb and it takes them awhile to get over this. He says he has talked with others in his program about this and it just takes time. I would love to hear from others if this is true with their spouses as it is still difficult for me to readily accept what my RAH says, although when I choose to be with him, I have to accept this.

Seren

It is wonderful news that your husband has 6 months of recovery under his belt! It is only the very beginning of a long road, but it's a start. I think it boils down to what you are willing to accept. For me, abuse is a drop-dead deal breaker.

I think I, too, would feel frustrated if I were never allowed to tell him exactly how I felt about all the things he had done to me. I can't imagine never being able to address this with him simply because I was afraid of jeopardizing his sobriety. Remember, you are never the cause for his drinking.

Perhaps with the help of a good marriage counselor, you should discuss this with him in terms of how all of it made your feel. "When you X, I felt Y(anger, hurt, unloved, demoralized, etc.)" I think you deserve to have that conversation.

Many hugs, HG

Learn2Live

Maybe before marriage counseling and expecting him to give you what you need emotionally, related to what was likely pretty abusive, you could work your own program in Al-Anon and get your own counselor to help you work through these things?

FireSprite

My situation isn't EXACTLY the same, but I'm happy to chime in with what I think *might* be relevant. My husband is almost 13 months sober.

First off - I agree with other posters working your own program or taking part in some kind of individual therapy is pretty important. I'm not doing anything formal (due to time & money issues) but I do what I can. It really helps to understand your own issues before trying to explain them or start working on a resolution. I'm also diving deep into my ACoA issues now ~I think I just finally reached this stage~ because my journey with my AH has triggered insane amounts of repressed memories & trauma. New definitions, new labels, a longer hindsight view which allows me to see the larger patterns... it has changed the way I previously viewed some things that happened in my life. And that's all ME, for sure, not anything related to AH in any way.

Yes, I know this feeling! Right, wrong or indifferent this is a REAL feeling to me so I can't pretend it away. It took a long time to silence that echo in the back of my head... & it's only just becoming less automatic. Some of it was me - I have had to learn to separate these echos from current realities & acknowledge that I'm reacting to the past not the present.... & then stop myself from bringing it into the present.

I have had success in the last few months getting RAH to understand this - but in the first 9-ish months he just couldn't see my POV... that if he's already apologized, how long am I going to HOLD ON to this? He really wasn't far enough in his recovery to have a clear understanding of my emotional injuries & that (to me) him apologizing before he really had this understanding was kind of an empty apology. Like a blanket statement that only slightly hits the mark.

"But it was just Drunk Talk!" he'd say.
"Ok", I'd say... "then let's have some Sober Talk!"
"How can I give you a detailed apology when I don't even remember the offending remarks or what my frame of mind was at the time?"
"Well, you can't.... but you CAN tell me what you REALLY think instead of letting me assume what I believe you think based on these old words.....let's walk back through this together & explain it to me with Sober Talk & then I'll have a new script in my head to counteract those old painful echos the next time I trigger."

It was difficult for him but that's mostly because every time I bring up something that hurt me, his feelings of guilt & shame would get so overwhelming he would just shut down. But, I feel like it's enabling to just say, "Oh - that's hard for you? It causes you pain? Don't worry, I'll just work it out on my own... after all you did apologize for 'everything'..."

Um, no. I've spent years accepting these kinds of generalizations & that doesn't work for ME. (I realize we're all different) I don't keep an inventory, I don't have an ongoing list of grievances..... I deal with these triggers when they pop up, trying to get a clear understanding of it first & then if it isn't something I can 'fix' by myself I bring it up as respectfully as possible.

So now when I hear those old words spring up at times when I'm feeling low, I remind myself of the conversations we've had in replacement. Slowly, over time, the old has less power & the new is easier to recall. I spend less time wondering what he really meant & it has helped to soften some of the triggers that set the whole thing off to begin with. TO ME, this is part of rebuilding our relationship. I just can't pretend all those years, all those words, all those hurts just didn't happen.... & I can't pretend that they didn't & don't still affect me at times. I don't consider it dredging up the past if it is still affecting me now in the present, but that's just me.

Yes, it IS important because it's important to you. If you feel it, it is REAL and your feelings are valid & deserve to be addressed.

wywriter

Thank you all for the replies, I'm definitely getting some great ideas for which angle to approach this . JACKRUSSELGIRL -- as soon as I read your post, I looked up the book on Amazon and have it headed to me now, it spoke to me THAT clearly. Right now the only literature in the house are RAH's Big Book, 12 Steps and 12 Traditions, Living Sober and Daily Reflections. These are great books, but I think something tailored specifically to the issues I'm working on dealing with will be very helpful.

FireSprite -- YES, that's it!! That describes how I've been feeling to a T. Thankfully, since writing this post, RAH noted that I was definitely out-of-sorts and loaded the kids into the double stroller and asked me to go for a walk with him. A few miles and a couple hours later, we'd been able to discuss a few things that I think really helped...that sober talk . I'm glad that I didn't have to re-hash anything specifically, at least not yet, because he doesn't really need to be hit in the face with EXACTLY the insults he used and what-not. He has apologized for the current intimacy issues, saying it's certainly not my fault, and citing his years in the Navy for his ability to go for months without even thinking about it. We've also mapped out a plan for me to go to the local YMCA 2-3 times a week so that I can get out of the house, get some of that mind-healing exercise, and enjoy the muscle-toning side effects of my beloved yoga for an ego boost too.

I'd like to look into the possibility of finding a counselor sometime, though right now our crazy schedules, extremely short budget and young kids preclude that a bit. What I have found to be pretty helpful, though, is talking to an older lady who goes to my husband's AA home group. She's been in AA and Al-Anon for over 20 years, is a long-term resident of this area and understands my somewhat old-fashioned view of home and family. I went to a very small high school with two of her sons, so I've been casually acquainted with her for a long time. Since all of this has come bubbling up in the past week or so I've been discussing some of the issues with her, and she's at least been able to assure me that it's a perfectly normal part of the process. It's funny, but not feeling isolated makes a HUGE difference in so many ways.

wywriter

Well, here I am again, 5:22 in the morning and I haven't gone to bed yet. I tried, but I couldn't sleep. We just passed hubby's 8-month and his sobriety is going great. We also just passed the 10-month mark of no physical intimacy, and that's really not going great for me. It seems to be great for him -- after all, he chose it -- but I keep catching myself obsessing over what I'm doing wrong.

I've been back to exercising several times a week, though a recent weigh-in left me appalled to discover that I'm nearly as heavy as the week before my son was born. I've had three babies now, and I'm a total wreck. It's really hard for me to blame him for not even missing the intimacy, but the more I think about it, the more I get upset over things I can't change. So I try not to think about it, and I've gotten obsessed over "being useful" and just completely burying myself in work to try to forget about the lack of intimacy. I was already deathly afraid that my husband wouldn't be able to stand me when he sobered up, and time just seems to bear that out. He doesn't remember the things he said to me and about me while he was drinking, but I can't help but wonder if he still thinks them just the same.

Yep, counseling is out for me right now, there's just no time or money to do it. I finally got to talk to my husband a bit about the lack of intimacy, and he merely acknowledged the fact that "my perceived needs" are not being met. He said that if I get back on birth control, that can change -- even though when I asked him about it five months ago, right after our son was born, he informed me that we were going to be abstinent. I don't know if he really meant it that way, but he never discussed it with me or anything, and it certainly left me with a pretty clear view of how much he valued what I could give him in that respect.

I can't help but wonder if some of this is codie fallout, since I gave up trying to initiate anything myself a long time ago. He never was good at just saying "no, thank you" but instead would make fun of me for even trying. We've actually only had any physically intimate interaction once since our son was conceived, and even then I confess that I kind of took advantage of him while he was about mid-level intoxicated. Before that it was when said child was conceived...and then like three months before that. Maybe it wouldn't hit me so hard if anyone had EVER been truly interested in me in that respect, but I've only ever had such relations with the two men I married. The first, it was every week, like clockwork, on Saturday. And then it came out that his true satisfaction was coming from elsewhere.

I'm seriously on the verge of giving up on this bit. I don't want a divorce, I love my husband more than anything, and enjoy time with him so much more now that he's sober. But is it so wrong to want a little something else every now and then? I am extremely giving whenever I'm given the chance, and enjoy doing many things that men are said to love having done, but he just plain doesn't want it. I'd be willing to be patient if I knew this was ever going to end, but I'm really starting to wonder.

End of rant...I know that really didn't add anything, but I needed to rant somewhere and there's really no one I can talk to. Even my mother rubs it in my face that my husband doesn't want me, and my sister honestly can't understand why exclusivity is important to anyone.

Hopeworks

Hi Wywriter,

Your mother rubs it in your face? Sounds like mom may be a bit toxic... something is not right here.

Marriage is more that cohabitating and reproduction and I cannot imagine being in a relationship where intimacy is nonexistent and I can well understand your frustration. It sounds as though this was not strictly an alcohol issue and your husband may have a libido problem that is physical in nature. A saliva test with his doctor will check his testosterone levels which may be low and are an easy fix and there will be a quick change.

Some men are just very uncomfortable with intimacy and simply not that interested in sex. Compatibility in this area isn't always a given and in an relationship it is important that both parties give consideration to the other in this area. His disinterest in your desire is troubling in itself... unless it is not disinterest but fear.

He may have some performance fears and many alcoholics have only been intimate while drunk and the idea of sober sex is scary beyond belief.

To heal a broken relationship like yours takes a lot of time and counseling would be invaluable for you both. My XA and I were in counseling for years with a great marriage counselor that knew addiction and relationships. He is a retired pastor who has a degree in psycholology and counsels couples and is willing to counsel for donations if there is hardship.

If you spend some time searching you might find someone in your own town that is similar... meanwhile why don't you PM me and I will share my counselor's number and you can talk to him in a phone appointment. He is an amazing, insightful, loving counselor and doctor of psychology.

dandylion

Dear wyWriter, I believe what you are wanting is perfectly normal and healthy. Your painful wounding--at his hands and unwilliness to address your intimacy needs can only be swept under the rug for so long--until it begins to erode the whole relationship.

It doesn't sound, to me, that it is going to "magically" heal itself on it's own. I believe that, a good place to start, is, by finding a well qualified therapist for yourself. Alanon and self-help books on the subject are good support, of course. But the highly personalized attention that you need requires a very good therapist.

You have to fundamentally BELIEVE that your own core happiness is as important as anything or anyone else. You can never be truly happy in any relationship unless you value yourself, first.

Hopefully, some other posters will weigh-in on this also.

I just want to give you my perspective on this--on what I believe to be true.

To thine own self, be true.

sincerely, dandylion

catlovermi

It's hard to tell from written words, but you do sound depressed. Do you have the opportunity to discuss possible post-partum depression with a doctor? At least if you could treat that, the rest would not be so insurmountable to face.

It seems, from what you have written in the past, that your whole relationship with your husband revolves around him - his issues, his wants, his demands, his problems, his decisions. Where are you, I ask kindly? What about you?

In the end it does boil down to what you want - what you believe you deserve - in life. Only you can determine that and pursue it.

There likely is a reason your husband spent so much lifespan drowned in drink - and if he's now sober but unwilling to work on this, you have what you have, in your husband, and in your relationship. It takes two to have a vibrant, loving, supportive partnership. And if you are stuck in an unhealthy relationship, you are not available to find a relationship that would be healthy.

Sending support, hope the kiddies are doing well!

CLMI

Learn2Live

When are you going to stop looking to others to determine whether or not your needs are even valid to begin with? You question even that because of who you have in your life and even make excuses for those people who normally would be meeting those needs. You say you have no time or money to seek help for your own self yet you continue to spend all of your own resources on every one and every thing other than you. Going to the gym to change or fix yourself is just you blaming you for your spouse's inability or refusal to acknowledge and fulfill your basic needs.

Coming to SR to get your feelings out is a good idea and I'm sure helping you some. But we are not therapists and cannot help you much to identify your own issues. If you can spend the time and money going to the gym trying to make yourself into something you think your husband is attracted to, you can find a good therapist to help you figure out what you are actually doing.

Going to talk to someone who works the same program as your husband is not taking care of yourself. You need your own program. You need to start caring about YOU. Being the best wife, mom, homemaker, and entrepreneur is just going to get you more of the same. Please start doing first for YOU. Learn how to be selfish. Learn new ways of thinking. Insanity is doing the same things over and over, expecting different results.
(((Hugs))) please take some steps today to figure out what it is YOU need. Just you.

choublak

Has your mom been rubbing things in your face your whole life?

HopefulmomtoD

Could the lack of intimacy be as simple as he wants no more children? I went back and read some of your old threads. Your DH has four children from previous marriages that he no longer sees. In addition to your son from a previous relationship, the two of you have added two more in a relatively short period of time. And, he's over fifty years old .... not wanting more children may be the most mature thing he's done.

Gentle hugs.

catlovermi

If this is the case, he is just as able to do something about it. There is such a thing as a vasectomy, or condom.

The description reminds me more of indifferent emotional abandonment. And if that were the case, WyWriter, it's got to hurt, I'm sorry.

CLMI

HopefulmomtoD

Good point. And, my intent was not to hurt WyWriter or appear unsympathetic- its just something that stood out to me in reading.

webber1

Hello

A different tact.. i choose to leave my ex RACh partner.. I found life sober with her awful ( sorry its the truth)..

Why would anyone choose a life of no intimacy ?? You have every right to be angry about the past...

I cannot reconcile how so many here excuse poor behaviour and fob your reaction of to seeing " someone " as its not there fault.. a key theme - its always about them....


You dont need groups etc to tell you how you deserve to be treated.. Its how you want to be treated and only you can deserve that..

Allthe best

WishingWell

I think you guys are doing really well! Sexual issues happen in the best of relationships. You are nowhere near alone. It's too bad that you guys can't get some marriage therapy, there you could talk and find out. I totally get your husband. Many men are very reluctant to admit anxiety or inadequacy in the bedroom, they'd rather lose an arm.

But I do think this can be worked on and improved. 10 months sobriety is so wonderful!!! Congrats to him and you, too, for all the love you've shown. Bravo!

NYCDoglvr

1) This is normal I think. In some cases we can't let go of resentment and distrust. But one way of working at it is doing Alanon's 12 Steps. Codependents must recover as well. We learn top pointing the finger at someone else and deal with our own issues. I found great heap in looking at my part of problems we had. I had to take responsibility for my own character defects which helped letting go of anger elsewhere.

2) It's wonderful that he's sober six months and working very hard at his program. For your own protection don't assume this will last forever and that he'll never drink again. Some do, some don't and no one can predict outcomes. It's best to let expectation go and just enjoy the present.

3) Expectation destroy more relationships than practically anything else. These are YOUR feelings and yes, it's important to deal with them. No one can cause us to feel anyany emotion.