emeraldsea

First, thank you all for the wonderful responses to my previous posts. Lately I have been hiding from posting out of...what? Sadness and shame maybe. Feeling stuck. But I keep reading and soaking in the wisdom and learning from all of you. Thanks.

***

In other people’s experiences, what is the best way to handle communication while your loved one is in rehab? Is it better to limit contact, stick to light topics, or go no contact, or eventually turn to explicit discussions of planning ahead for post-rehab? I know the answer depends on the circumstances, but I would be interested in thoughts and experiences.

The reason for this question is that I realized to my shame that I have been avoiding phone contact with my ABF who has been in rehab for the past month. He reaches out to me a lot.

Since I am away on another continent right now, without a cell phone and with a 6 hour time difference, and he has the busy structures of rehab, 'missing' the small windows of time when we can talk is easy. I didnt realize at first that I missed them 'accidentally on purpose'. We have no kids together, so there is not logistical communication required.

We have been speaking via Skype briefly a few times a week. I don’t feel like I am getting much from emotionally from these calls. Since it wouldn’t be fair to him to engage in any heavy discussion about us right now, when we do talk it has been light conversations. Yet these still leave me twisted up.

When I realized I had been engaging in avoidance behavior around talking to him, I felt ashamed. Not just of not being forthright. I guess I feel I as long as we are officially still together then I ‘ought to be’ in contact. That I need to either break up with him or be a 'supportive' girlfriend. Which means what in the context of someone else’s rehab? I don’t know the rules here.

I know I need to deal with it head on. But to speak clearly requires a level of clarity and certainty that has been elusive. And, to be honest, a lack of courage. I have been too terrified to communicate. This seems totally absurd when I write it out. I am 33 years old.

Why can’t I settle on what I want and ask for it? Maybe because my own head has not been a healthy place: I’ve been consumed with anger at his past behavior, flashbacks to fights we had before he went in, flashbacks to my childhood with my alcoholic father and worry that I am repeating mistakes I vowed not to repeat and panicking about what to do next in my own life. I walk around sick to my stomach.

(For those who would recommend Al-Anon at this point. Yes! I have taken the plunge and gone for the first time! On Wednesday I went to the once a week English language Al-Anon group here, so hopefully that will be a future outlet to talk about my feelings. Proud of myself for this step.)

The major source of guilt regarding communication is the dawning realization that I cannot, in good conscience, move back into his apartment when he gets out of rehab and I return to the US to finish my PhD in September. That would be insanity, right? Things were so bad before I left. And yet, just my thinking and talking to friends about the idea of moving out while not talking to him about it seems like a betrayal.

Especially hurtful since he is in a vulnerable spot. He has always gone into a tailspin when he thinks I am leaving him, which has manipulated me into retracting my statements or just keeping quiet. I know intellectually this is manipulation and not mine to control, but this is a hard one for me.

I think I feel extra guilty that I am thinking of leaving now that he is seeking treatment.

So I need to hear again and again why this is a good thing for me to think about and likely the best action for me to take going forward.

Here are my specific questions about the living situation issue:

1) Is there any argument in favor of raising the prospect of my moving out while he still is in treatment? One friend raised the idea that it might be better to deliver difficult news while he still has the supportive environment of rehab.

2) Or should I hold back, since that news would be an unfair burden and may undermine his treatment? Is it better to remain silent now and have him expect that everything will return to normal and then once he is out of the supportive environment of the rehab drop the bomb on him that I am getting my own apartment? There may be some communication middle ground that the wise folks out there might recommend.

3) If I stay quiet about my concerns now, and then announce my decision (to leave or move out), does that compound the betrayal?

4) Are all these questions just indications that I am trying to control his reactions too much? I will go ahead and anwer that one myself, with a yes.
I suspect that my concern with timing the news perfectly is an attempt to keep him from drinking over it. Didn’t realize that until just now, writing it out. Hmmm.

Thank you for taking the time to read. This place is a lifeline.

fourmaggie

1st of all, HE is in recovery...he needs to do alot of things to stay sober, and 1 (sorry) maybe to limit on how much he calls, says and do...remember this is his recovery....

you can not control what he does and does not do and use u as an excuse, he needs to take responsiblities for all of his action/attitudes and behaviour....

now you....first your overly thinking...stop that...this is called expectations...please go to a 12 step program for YOU and no one else and KEEP GOING BACK to meetings...you will find all your questions answered and as you listen to what is said in those rooms, is growth.

Hopeworks

emeraldsea,

I know you are so torn at this point because you are worried your actions will negatively affect him but sadly a stint in rehab is not the miracle cure and sadly most experience relapses at some point after they are released.

My XA had been in rehab at least 6 times that I know of (3 while we were together) and he is currently in a sober living house. He is working a great program right now but the cold hard reality is that he is an alcoholic and it could ALL unravel with one bad moment, one second of a thought entertained and acted on and one drink... just one drink... and he is gone..... at risk of becoming an insane, irrational, impulsive drunk who quite literally can die from repeatedly drinking to the point of over 50% alcohol blood content.

I love this man. I spent 4 years with him living the nightmare with him of drinking, detox, sobriety, true recovery, building up to use, relapse... rinse and repeat. He is a great person but he is a stone cold real alcoholic and despite his best intentions he has even acknowledged to me that he is completely terrified that he will not be able to control it and he will drink again possibly. In his rational mind he is looking back at his past and is fearful of what has always happened before despite his best intentions and true desire to remain sober.

I tell you this because the very best thing I ever did for him was create an alcohol free boundary and enforce it. He either was going to rescue himself or die. I was prepared for other outcome as best as I could be simply because I could not LIVE the way we had been livng in a hellish nightmare of the insanity of the alcoholic relationship.

If you go back and read my old posts you will see that I didn't always feel this way and every situation is different. My old ways were to helicopter and provide UNLIMITED support to the point of insane enabling. I crippled my XA and he expected... DEMANDED... and manipulated to get what I had TRAINED him to expect.

Only you can determine what you are willing to settle for and if you are simply insanely in love with this man and and that you know that know that you know that he is the ONLY person that can make you happy like he did. Was he an unselfish and devoted partner? Do you respect his ethics, lifestyle, character etc... Do you admire this man? Do you want him to parent your children and would you them to grow up to be dear old dad?

If he is not the ONE... a true keeper and is a man who needs to grow up and learn how to control his addiction and impulses then you would be doing both of you a favor by finding out if he can sink or swim NOW. You cannot "save" him from himself and he must learn to rescue himself then you need to rescue yourself.

As a fellow ACOA I strongly suggest you find a GREAT counselor who can help you unravel why you were attracted to an alcoholic in the first place ... sadly .... we are hardwired to do this from our childhood that is so very critical in our development psychologically. I know I am completely attracted to men that mirror my dad in his positives (he had many) but at their center are very, very broken and addictive.

There is nothing wrong with NOT LIVING TOGETHER and creating boundaries and space to allow each to heal and grow in recovery and give it a year... the first year is very,very hard for an A. Relationships are not a good idea during this critical time... and if it is meant to be then you won't be able to stop it. A year is not along time in reality and if he made it in a year to a sober lifestyle you will probably still need to work on the relationship issues that are unrelated to the alcoholism.

Most relationships fail... add alcoholism and the odds of achieving true happiness are about the same as getting hit by lightning 5 times in one day.

emeraldsea

@Fourmaggie--Yes, I totally agree with your advice that its a good idea to limit how much he calls. That's precisely what I was writing to get help about. How to set limits? I am struggling with just the issue of how to do that, both practically (in terms of what to say and what the limits should be) and emotionally.

Re Alanon--again, I completely agree with you about its value. As I mentioned, I went to my first meeting this week and it felt so good to be there. I have no doubt that I need it and I will keep going back. The group leader said the hardest thing about starting in Alanon is learning to be patient, that it takes time. This makes perfect sense. Again, there is only one English language meeting per week here.

My concern is that I cant rely on AlAnon alone to work its magic right now because I dont have much time to make a decision about my living situation. I return to the US on August 29th. As of now, I have nowhere of my own to live in the city where my school is other than with my ABF.

Between now and then, I don't have more than a few weeks to make a decision about moving out, take action on it by looking for a new place (how to do that while still abroad? or crash with a friend and look when I am back), and then decide when and how I will communicate my final decision to ABF. I realize my leaving will hurt him whether or not he is still in rehab. As it hurts me.

So I need to formulate and implement a plan regarding where I will live in September ASAP. How to communicate with him about it is part, but not all, of it.

Hmmm, wow, that was a much more concise way of explaining the issue at hand than my intricately verbose first post that focused on him.

Thanks for helping me clarifying that through the writing process!

emeraldsea

Also, yes, I do overthink. A lovely combo of the academic and ACOA in me. Sometimes thinking helps clarify things, but sometimes it just is a smokescreen and delays action. Analysis paralysis and all that. I see that. But to 'just stop'? Harder. I cant seem to let go of the conviction that I can think my way into feeling ok about all this. When really my heart is breaking.

Hypatia

Hmm.... I see two people, both at very critical points in their lives. Each has their own extremely important task to do which the other cannot help to complete. Perhaps it might not be a bad idea to separate for a while so that each can fully concentrate and focus on his/her individual and separate goal?

Once each has finished their own specific work which must be done, there will be lots of time to consider the next step and whether it should be taken together or apart.

emeraldsea

@Hopeworks: Thanks. You raise the important question of whether there is such an overwhelming amount of good here that it's worth the risk and the certain obstacles and likely bumps in the road.

I see both the traits of a true keeper and I see a man in the grip of addiction. As for many here, the good kept me putting up with the bad.

One question that comes to mind for me to think about is, how could I even know if he is the ONE when he has been in the grip of alcohol addiction the entire (short) time that I have known him? I understand that many here knew their loved ones for years or decades as sober folk before the addiction took hold. I didn't. (Why I chose him after seeing what I saw so early on is a whole other question to unravel. The true depth of his addition became clearer over time).

Everything, I can see now, was distorted by the freakshow mirror of booze. I don't even know how to evaluate him in terms of his future prospects as a sober partner. I cant envision what our relationship will be like if/when he gets some recovery under his belt, because I have no past sober him to look back on.

All I do have to go on is past behavior. And his past behavior--I can now say out loud, thanks to coming to SR and gaining that much clarity--- had become intolerable by the time I left at the end of June for Europe. So much ugliness. How much was active drinking related? I don't know, but I suspect the wise ones will say that shouldn't even matter at this point in terms of my decisions about the next month.

He is just starting down this path. And he has so many other issues to deal with other than alcohol. Its overwhelming for me, as I am sure it is for him.

Based on the way things were when I left, I would not move back in. (Not moving back in and breaking up are two different things, in my mind. I am not clear about how I feel about breaking up. But he is so terrified of me leaving him that I think he would conflate the two and see it as a breakup no matter what.)

emeraldsea

Thanks Hypatia. You are right about both of us being at critical points in our lives. And its true that neither can accomplish the goals for the other. The truth is not only has he not been able to be truly and actively supportive of my goal, (though I am sure he thinks he has been) I know that our relationship has interfered with the achievement of finishing my PhD. I was so in love that I let my writing schedule slip, at first happily because I was so mesmerized by him and it seemed impossible to tear myself away, and then sadly, because getting screamed at and then staying up all night crying makes it hard to write a dissertation. Now I am behind schedule. (Reason number zillion that my friends and family do not approve of our relationship)

One distinction though: my immediate goal is a concrete one, with a clear endpoint: turn in the thesis! defend it, get PhD. (Of course, I realize I also have a lot of internal work to do, which is not so concrete).

But with his recovery, what is the finish line? A year of sobriety? It seems so amorphous. There is never a finish line. His task goes on forever. And as we all know, seemingly solid recovery can all vanish in an instant with a relapse. But...maybe that's being too dramatic and getting too far ahead.

Hypatia

Emeraldsea, I've realised that you are right. I certainly wouldn't want to be waiting around for someone to finish the unfinishable!

So how about a slight change.... each goes off and works on own goal separately. When you finish getting that degree, then you can look around and see how far he's come along with his work. At that point you might have a better idea of what you want to take as your next step.

As you wrote yourself, recovery can vanish in an instant. But a PhD is yours forever!

A long time ago, I gave myself permission to be greedy and selfish at times. This is one of those times when I would decide that I want it all. So I would go for the diploma first since it is a much faster timeline and likely much easier in comparison. I would simply excuse myself from all my friends and family including boyfriend or husband and say that for the next X months my whole life is going to revolve around getting this PhD. I would let myself get totally obsessed with this goal since it is such a short term thing, and even isolate myself in a separate small apartment to minimise any distractions from this goal.

And when I was finished, then like a butterfly I would emerge from my cocoon, diploma in hand, ready to face a new stage of life.

Go for it! Go for both! But seriously consider the order in which you approach them. I would hate to end up losing both and walking away with completely empty hands simply because I attempted to do them in the wrong order.

emeraldsea

Oh yes, its more than possible. I definitely welcomed the distraction from my studies. Absolutely. In fact, I just have hired a dissertation coach (this actually exists, I've learned) to get over my fears and anxieties about finishing. They run deep.

Like many ACOAs, and not just ACOAs of course, I have that inner emptiness. It pushes me to rack up the external attributes and accomplishments. But that doesn’t help. Everything still feels empty. So then I sink into depression and find to hard to mobilize. Super responsible or super irresponsible, is the way the ACOA writes it I believe. It’s self-sabotage and I know it, but still hard to overcome.

But I wouldn't say that it just happened to be him. It was precisely him: both because of genuine affection, admiration and attraction and also because of that wow-the-universe-is-aligning feeling of meeting someone who fits your issues like a lock and key. (Here I am paraphrasing that line from Women Who Love too much where Robin Norwood describes that magic feeling).

And so it was much deeper a pull than just a distraction. Our relationship felt like a kind of salvation. I know how bad that sounds, but I mean that as strongly as it sounds. I wanted/want a partner and to have intimacy in my life more than anything. I guess more than even protecting myself.

Just as I thought that racking up the accomplishments would ease the emptiness, I thought that finding love would do the same.

I think ABF felt something similar. We both latched on to each other. In addition to his drinking getting increasingly out of control, he was not doing well on many fronts of his life, as I came to learn gradually. The relationship became as central to him as it was to me.

(A friend of his family, upon meeting me, remarked that I had been a kind of savior to ABF, which made me deeply uncomfortable for a second until I repressed that feeling and just smiled).

I had spent my 20s having my share of relationships many healthy some not, some serious in their own way, some not. Lots of periods of singlehood. Meanwhile virtually all my friends have found partnerrs gotten married one by one and started families. I started the PhD at 28 and now I am 33 and it’s been such a long and lonely road. The lack of a partner felt unbearable on top of it.

All my past boyfriends treated me normally-- no addiction or anything like the nightmare scenarios that have gone down with ABF. At the same time, none of my other boyfriends up until now have ever wanted a future with me. I usually hold on and try to make relationships work that aren’t working until they break up with me. I felt like I wasn't worth marrying. (Boy, do I need ACOA meetings too).

So for me a major hook with ABF is that he is the only person who has ever said out loud that he wants to be with me forever and is begging me for such a commitment. I know the urgency of that request is highly suspicious, even if he means it, that it is his manipulation.

People have asked why I have stayed and I realize ABF's unwavering desire to be with me has made this relationship so hard to imagine giving up. Because having someone want to be with me forever was the one thing I dreamed of that I couldn’t accomplish by myself and that never thought would happen to me ever.

It was the ultimate validation.

I can’t bear to read this, I am cringing at myself. But getting it out helps. I'll stop now. Please be gentle.

Cyranoak

...I'm not saying it's what to do, I'm saying it's what I did and years later I think it was a good decision for me (speaking only for me).

They had a visiting day-- it was Wednesdays. I went every Wednesday after work and visited her. I did not speak to her on any other day-- I wanted her focused on her recovery, and I wanted me focused on mine. If we talked daily I would not have been able to do that.

Also, I did not allow her, when we were visiting, to tell me how to handle my business, or ask me to handle hers. If it was shared business, our daughter for example, I would have that conversation. That was it.

Good luck,

Cyranoak

seek

Does he have a counselor in rehab you can reach out to? I think if I were you, I might coordinate a joint meeting (even if only via Sykpe) between he, you, and the counselor. While this is difficult, I think I would vote for pulling the plug while he is in rehab and has the support system . . .but ultimately you have to decide what is the right and moral thing to do. Good luck.

Cyranoak

Greedy is not a synonym with selfish, and selfish is not inherently wrong. If you were in a capsule with another person and there was limited air, would you stop breathing so they could breath longer? Would they? Would it be selfish to keep breathing? Would it be greedy to keep breathing?

I suggest greed has nothing to do with this, and I suggest you must be selfish when you need to be in order to be healthy, in order to be present for those you love, and in order to be part of a healthy relationship. This is not greedy, it is not selfish in any kind of negative way, and it's healthy.

It's so twisted that so many people think it's greedy and selfish to engage in self-care, and it's twisted that so many people, myself included, feel guilt when doing so.

It's not my job to make other people happy or "help" them all the time. It is my job to make me happy-- mine and mine alone.

My two cents.

Cyranoak

Hypatia

Yep, you understood exactly what I meant by selfish Cyranoak!

As for greedy, I meant wanting it all. And it might be possible, but since both working on the degree and on the relationship cannot be done at the same time, the order is important. First one, then the other in such a way as to maximise the chance of success for both.

emeraldsea

Thanks Cyranoak--also for getting me back on target to my original question!

Yes, exactly. it's the daily open-ended possibility of talking at any time that is driving me crazy. He would like to talk everday and we dont just because I am 'not available'. No explicit boundaries have been set.

I am such a novice at setting boundaries and get so anxious, especially given his propensity to hair trigger reaction, that it helps to plan out what I will say in advance. This is the transcontinental phone equivalent of walking on eggshells. Ugh.

What did you say to set that boundary with your wife? How did you come to that arrangment? Did you decide that is whats right for you and then just tell her the deal?

And yes, setting limits on the content, for both of us, might help. I realize I don't feel like hearing the intricacies of sessions or his latest insights about his drinking. I don't want to hear about some group leader is not very bright, or how he had a spat with another one because she was not creative in her explanations of an AA principle. It drains me. And yet I struggle to say this aloud.

Also, how can I demand never to hear about such issues? Eventually, if we stay together, wont he have the healthy expectation that he can share his experience with rehab? I'm confused about that.

coffeeclouds

My (R?)AH is currently in rehab and he would call everyday and at any time. I told him the times he could call (or that we would answer) saying it was disruptive to what we needed to do here. He has always been disruptive. Anyway, he was not happy about it, but has been complying so far. I still got an earful when we once didn't answer during the allowed time, but then I just hung up on him and haven't spoken on the phone since. Which frankly, is ok with me.

emeraldsea

Coffeeclouds--thank you so much. through these responses I am realizing my discomfort comes not just from talking to him. It's also the chaos of not knowing when the phone call might come, and also feeling guilty for moving away from the computer on purpose to avoid the call.

So this chaos of communicating during rehab mirrors the chaos of living with alcoholics. The unpredictability of it. Of course that makes sense that the chaos would continue in another venue.

Yes, my ABF is also always disruptive, in person or via phone. When we live together, he doesn't respect the boundary of me being on the phone. Of course I don't mind interruptions for good reasons or when they are done with courtesy for frivolous reasons. But he will sit down next to me, while I am in a conversation with a friend or my mother, and just start talking about some random thought. Just talking to me as if he and I are alone. Not asking if he could have a minute, not seemingly even realizing that my attention was elsewhere other than available to him. Then I end up seeming rude, because my attention becomes divided. Like a child, really. Amazing.

But what I am also learning from you all is that rehab gives the chance to change these dynamics. Being 6 hours ahead helps that too.

Last week he sent me a clearly laid out email with the times he is available every day, broken down for me. I think this was a helpful email in and of itself, it clarified his schedule, but it still leaves the question of when we will talk totally open. I need more structure, or at least more inner clarity. And, since I want more structure and he wants to talk all the time, setting limits will only come from me.

But the consistent feeling I have had over the last few weeks is that I don't want to hear IT. Any of it. Even before it begins, I don't want to hear it. I feel such rage. And I know I cant, and also shouldnt, turn to him for any support. But that makes me not want to talk to him at all. Our conversations have become mere place holders.

Because if I am upset, which I am a lot for reasons that both do and do not have to do with him, and I cant express it, I feel resentful. I am not here to give out pats on the back for staying in rehab one more day and ask for nothing in return.

So I am his girlfriend. But what can that mean right now? what kind of relationship is this right now? Do we even have a relationship now, under these circumstances? I feel like a relationship on ice.

Does my feeling this way (not wanting to talk, feeling resentful) during his rehab mean that we shouldn't be in touch? Do they mean we are on the road to breakup?

Learn2Live

Thank you so much for this Emerald. I thought I was the only one who went through this. With AXBF, all the focus and attention had to be on HIM, and every single thought that went through his brain. I rarely had a moment's peace. I think I nearly went insane.

From the anger you describe, I think you need to set a boundary for yourself. It sounds to me like you don't want to talk to him at all. And that's OK. You don't have to. And you SHOULDN'T continue to speak to ANYONE you don't want to speak to.

emeraldsea

Thanks Seek, for your clear vote on the specific question. No, i dont have contact info for a counselor at his rehab to reach out to because I have not been involved in his treatment to date. This is just fine with me. I think he needs to face it all alone. I am not his wife at this point.

Maybe possibly I will propose to him that a three way phone conversation in a week or so might be a good way to talk through this issue of my living situation going forward for this first time. It seems like a reasonable planning for discharge sort of activity. I have no clue at this point how much longer he is planning to stay in the rehab facility. He hasn't raised that with me. I haven't wanted to interfere with his treatment. Then again, maybe I wont raise it at all. We shall see.

The other perspective comes from my friends and family who are advising me to pull a 'Katie Holmes', ie to say nothing, pretend all is good, wait until everything is in place with the new apartment and then BAM! Move out in one fell swoop. If I could move into a luxury building, like Katie did, I would do it! I think these people read too much People.

Now one reason I am extra hesistant to use this sudden run away approach is because this is what his ex wife did to ABF when she left him and it was horrible for him. She took their son, took 10K from the bank and left for a secret apartment she had rented nearby.

He has cried to me about her cruelty to him when she left him like that (When he and I were trying to have a romantic dinner, mind you. So the romance did not continue for us that night after that turn in the conversation. I dont think I was such a sympathetic ear to that sad story). In any case, her leaving clearly traumatized him and the way she left seems to have contributed a lot to the pain.

I would like to avoid that course of action if possible. So, wait: I am trying to heal the hurt of his exwife leaving him to help heal the pain both of that rupture and my getting my own place? When he was left both times because of his own behavior? Sigh.

My first thought when I head how she had fled, which I kept to myself and have not said to him, was that she must have been terrified by you to do that. She must have been planning for weeks. That is not just cowardice, as he sees it. To me, those are the actions of a scared lady, little as I want to/care to relate to her. It seems like the measure of last resort, or of someone who feared for their safety.

Yet ABF just sees himself as the victim of her cruelty, and her actions as nothing but betrayal.

But now that I have seen his rages. I too have feared for my safety around ABF. I can understand why someone would feel the need to leave under darkness of night, so to speak. He can be very and deliberately scary.

coffeeclouds

I know that I don't have anything to say to him. I am all talked out. And, I am not sure that I want to pursue relationship at all either. We have been married almost 30 years. He had had enough of me.

My perception of your A giving you a schedule seems controlling to me. If you feel like calling and he isn't available, well then, try again. Just because we are in the age of instant communication, doesn't mean we have to be constantly available.

I prefer the written word now. And still choose whether or not to write.

And I was wondering if you were peeking in my windows. He could spend hours on the phone, but if I were to do it, during business hours with colleagues no less, he always got pissed off, disruptive, and needy. good grief.