Buffalo66

Our finances are separate.
He bought the house while we were having a separation. It was less than a month.

Its been in 'closing' for some time.
He has been couch surfing homeless since then.

I have NO IDEA where he stays, who with, where he goes if he drinks, whatever.

ANd I am home w S7 each night, except for when grandma (his mom) takes him overnight.

Last two times i was free I went out, and first time he came to where I was (checked papers to see what friends bands were playing) and just walked past me staring at me while I chatted with a male friend.

That rattled me a little.
He claims he was just 'walking by", but there was nothing in the direction he was coming from. Yikes.

this past weekend, though, he began to text demanding to know if I was drinking alcohol. I quit when he got sober. In support of him. I went 2 years no drinking. I am not in recovery, am not an alcoholic.

As I was out, he was texting "are you at ____?"
No response from me

"Who are you with?" No response from me.

I drove a friend home, and left my car at the bar/club. Crashed at friend house. While I slept got two txts:
"Why is your car at the_____?" Which means he drove by the bar after 2am to see if my car was there...
"DO YOU DRINK alcohol?"

Scared me. I went home, we got my car, and while eating lunch in my sunroom, he drove by twice. Our son was at his moms. He knew that. My road is NOT a thouroughfare. Pretty much a dead end.

So, a little stalking action.
He is extremely OK with this behavior. He did it when he was still drinking, and now he is sober, he wants to know if I am too. Its none of his business.

I sent him a text:
"No I do not drink. Please stop trying to figure out my evening. Please stop driving by my house to check on me.Thanks."

He seemed to feel busted by that : "Oh..I was just in the neighborhood."

It went along OK for two days then, in the middle of the night last night :
"Just driving by your precious boyfriends bar." it was 1am.

What is it about the control issues? He is fine if I am at home alone w our S7. he knows I am tucked away. BUt when S7 is with his mom, and he knows that I am free to move about the cabin of my life, he cannot cope.

I am documenting everything...in case the behavior progresses to stalking. He claims he just goes to the same places I do, run in the same circles, but I make sure not to go to "his" side of town.

And before you ask: Yes. He is supposedly sober 2 years, and yes, He still goes to bars all the time.

PaperDolls

Before it progresses to stalking? Uh, what do you call stalking?


I have very little experience with this and never got an RO (although I probably should have, I was a teenager and had not clue) but If this were me, I'd be on the phone with the police now!

I'm sure people with more experience will be along.

transformyself

I think you're doing well, NC will help and keeping everything documented.

Combating the emotional distraught and fear will be your job now I think.

And, he sure doesn't sound sober, sane or safe to me.

I'm glad you're having fun and doing your life. That's awesome.

wicked

Call the police. He is actively stalking you now.
I am not sure about the law, find out and call anyway.
This is beyond creepy buffalo.
Control you? Yes, he is using scare tactics to keep you in your house!
I do not know why I am reacting so strongly to it. I have to think on that too.
sorry, i was not just giving advice, i was giving demands.
I apologize.

I am very concerned about the middle of the night stuff.
Please call the local authorities and see what you can do.
Beth

Tuffgirl

He can only control you if you let him. Maybe stop answering the crazy texts?

Chris1000101

sober 2 years – BS

He is stalking, I suggest a RO as quickly as you can.

Florence

IME, this is stalking. When my ex did it to me, I didn't get an RO because I didn't want to get things messy. They were already messy, and NOT getting the RO turned out to be a mistake when they got even messier.

If I were you, I would apply for an RO just to cover your tracks. This feels like it's escalating to some place bad.

xo

lillamy

Call your attorney and see what you can do.
Stalking laws are different in different states; where I live, that behavior wouldn't even register as a blip on the radar (which is frightening).

It may be different in your state, but here, if you have a restraining order that prohibits him from contacting you or driving by hour house, and he does it anyway, all of a sudden it's not a misdemeanor but a felony.

But talk to your lawyer. Please.

FireSprite

[QUOTE=Buffalo66;3504368]What is it about the control issues? He is fine if I am at home alone w our S7. he knows I am tucked away. BUt when S7 is with his mom, and he knows that I am free to move about the cabin of my life, he cannot cope.

I am documenting everything...in case the behavior progresses to stalking. He claims he just goes to the same places I do, run in the same circles, but I make sure not to go to "his" side of town.
QUOTE]

Wow, Holy Flashback BatGirl! AH used to be EXACTLY like this! He'd *say* he was perfectly OK with me being out & about & then suddenly feel the need to check in with/up on me constantly. If I was home with DD though - he could barely take the time to check in, ever. But me being OUT THERE in the REAL WORLD where he couldn't control what/who I was exposed to? Suddenly he was a Klingon. My friends used to laugh because with him being a local musician I knew almost all of the bartenders, bouncers & bands anywhere we went.... so essentially he already had spies everywhere & there was never any need for him to be so suffocating.

I definitely agree that this qualifies as stalking & you should do whatever you can to protect yourself! There is nothing creepier than feeling vulnerable in your own home!! (I have a creepy neighbor that has given me reason to feel that way & it's awful.)

Buffalo66

Thanks, everyone,

I cannot go full NC, as we have S7.
Limited Contact is best I can do. I need to keep some lines of communication open, for when he moves into the new house(if it happens) he is saying he will be "having" son for visitations, keeps telling S7 about how cool his new room will be. He is talking sleepovers.

Now, this man is 34, and son is 7. He has never slept alone with son overnight. Ever.

I am concerned, due to the extreme anxiety he exhibits.
He tries and is trying to get his life in gear, but this anxiety stuff is not good for son and I have the therapist on top of it. But. I want to be able to talk to exH, and have him still feel comfortable telling me if he doesnt feel OK having son yet-- Overnight that is. The more he feels comfortable admitting his limitations with our S7 to me and or therapist, the better off we are for sS7 safety/well being.

Now, I will be laying down some clear lines about it. But, he may freak if I am too hard. I let the therapist handle that. We will start slow, with visits, maybe first few sleepovers will be with MIL present. She will do that for me.

I may be getting ahead of myself, but I am not ready for a custody battle, which I would most likely win, and at the same time he has parental rights, anxiety or no anxiety. Setting a RO in motion is going to cause a more aggressive retaliatory response in him.

He may be able to just curb his behavior.
I thought he had a GF , but this behavior makes me wonder. He usually would be less concerned with me when he has other "supply" to go to for adoration, or acknowledgement.

I Do NOT fear physical threat, but more maybe feel unsure of my own ability to stave off the damage of his attempts at gaslighting and berating.

And that becomes VERY MUCH ABOUT ME. I am still hearing HIS voice in my head, still fear his CRAZY twisting of the story, still fear all that. So, yes, those texts I did not answer still got in my head.

I called him out on it. He is very concerned with "appearances". I know his mom knowing about it will at least make him snap out of it a little, so I am going to ask her to mention it to him. I know, I know, telling his mommy, but yes. That is what I am dealing with.

Either way, since I trust you all and your judgement, I will contact the police and just ask what it takes, what it entails and what it means to get a RO against him.

Thumper

You are doing a dance with the devil trying to gauge how best to manipulate him and control for various future scenarios. I did it too. IME it will make you crazy and keep you locked in power struggles and co-dependency.

It sounds like stalking to me too and I'm glad you are making contact with the police to see where you stand in your state. Just because he hasn't done anything crazy before doesn't mean he won't some day. The late night drive by's are creepy. That requires a level of intent and obsession that can't be accounted for by simply sitting at home being bored on the couch so stirring up some drama for the ex. The fact that he does it when your son is not there ratchets up the alarm in my mind.

Would you consider setting up a new email account and giving him that email address? Let him know that you will engage in all correspondence regarding your son and parenting and that he should freely use the email, that you will check it daily. With the email you can sit down, when you are ready and prepared, and deal with them.

Then ignore any comment or question not parenting related and block him from your phone and other email accounts. The texts would be a downer, even if I didn't respond to them. It isn't fair that you have to deal with them. It is hard to maintain your own center and recovery when getting those constant pings.

Deep breath. Try not to get caught up in future scenarios. Do the right thing today.

LaTeeDa

I agree about the contact. I have two children with my XAH. When we separated, I had no contact with him except regarding children and joint finances. If he veered off on any other subject, I ended the conversation immediately. It took a few times of me hanging up on him, pretending someone was at the door, or simply saying "gotta go now," before he got it.

He has no business knowing what you are doing, where you are going, or when.

L

Buffalo66

No, none of the texts I listed above have anything to do with S7.

Other texts throughout the week do.

When he drove past my house I did feel compelled to let him know I saw it, and I did not want it to happen anymore.

I also asked him plainly and calmly via text to stop trying to figure out where I go.
I will call the cops tomorrow, since I was busy all day today. I will find out what my options are, and what they entail.

I am not at a place of extreme action. A RO is extreme, and he does do visitation with S7, for approx 4 hours at a time, once or twice a week. He had a spate of not showing up, and sons Therapist really gave it to him about how important consistency is for a child with these types of anxieties.

So, no. He does not have a place to take son right now, but says he will within a week.

I do have sole custody just by default of the fact that he has ony lived with me for more than 85% of his life. We have never had any hearings or anything about custody. I need to carefully consider our health insurance issues. We have MRIs quaterly, once a week counseling and various eye operations and exams coming in the next year. I need to put in place a fail proof plan to cover all insurance issues, and make sure divorce does not interrupt coverage in any way.

Divorce costs money that I do not have right now, and he does not want to pursue right now. I have met with a lawyer friend of the family, and I know I can do it for a little money, but certainly not NOTHINg. SO, I have a number of other things right ahead of me on my plate. It is summer, S7 is here all the time, and his tics are through the roof.

I will make a clear boundary with ex and definitely look into the RO. BUt, I will not slap him with it, before I let him know my wishes. Which I have done. Now, if he pulls another night like last weekend. I will be calling the police and filing due to harrassment.

Again, I will say that while it may be difficult for some of you to undestand, it is important to me to keep communication clear and open with him if possible, so he is forthcoming about his state of mind. I am dealing with someone who will say he is fine out of pride when put in a corner. I do not want him to take S7 and then be panicking and too proud or RESTRICTED from letting me know he cannot handle it, then have S7 for an overnight while freaking out.

As it has been, with mild limited contact he still feels safe enough to be honest about his limitations.

I can look into dropping the whole thing in the therapists lap, let him know, and have him be the go between. I will initiate that conversation this week, however it is tricky because when we are there, S7 is there, as is (sometimes) ExH

So, those are my concerns and my plans.

Thanks everyone.

LaTeeDa

You say he is still trying to control you, but you seem to be trying to control him as well. In your last post, everything you do seems to revolve around how you can get him to cooperate and not react in ways you don't want. That must be exhausting.

I'm not saying you should throw caution to the wind. But, what if you took his reaction out of the equation and just did whatever is the next right thing for you and your son? Isn't it ironic that the more we try to control others, the less power we have? It would truly warm my heart to hear of you taking back your power. Hasn't he run your life for long enough?

L

tjp613

Perhaps your best option at this point is to come up with a good safety plan. You can google "domestic violence safety plan" and get some good ideas about home security, how to stay safe if you are confronted unexpectedly, alerting neighbors about possible problems, reviewing with your son what to do in an emergency (call 911), etc. I'm not saying he's dangerous, but it's better to be safe than sorry and having a safety plan in place may give you some additional peace of mind.

Buffalo66

What if the next right thing for my son is different than the next right thing for me, and yet he is a MINOR child, who needs to be protected, and at the same time has a right to see his father who is willing to see him?

Lots of people separarte and divorce and dont get followed around. And those parents want to know if the other home is safe and decent, if the other parent is stable.

If one parent drives the child without a seatbelt the other parent gets involved.

I have to be involved. My son has tourettes syndrome and other issues.

I do feel that he is trying to control my behavior, but what he is doing is well outside of the realm of parenting. He is extending his will into my life outside of our shared parenting concerns.

I am trying to work with him as a co parent, and I do not feel that he deserves to be cut out of my childs life, but I am not quite comfortable and still feel unclear about his ability to make good judgement calls with regard to S7s emotional well being. He is not a lousy drunk anymore, holds a job, and has serious anxiety issues. AND he follows me around.

Things are not black and white.
Co parenting is not black and white.
Him trying to find out where I go, who I am with, etc when S7 is not with me is a quite different kind of control from me trying to get a clear picture of his mental health and keep communication open in order to continue receiving that information. So that our son feels safe and cared for.

Is my sons therapist trying to control him?
I dont understand what you mean?
What would you suggest?
Complete no contact, take him to court for custody, divorce him and deplete my everyday living money, then deal with the emotional fallout of our son NEVER seeing his father until he is PERFECT?

Its not black and white, and my willingness to work WITH him as a coparent does not make my frustration and discomfort with being followed or spied on invalid.

i can feel both, I can act on both.

Buffalo66

Thanks tjp, thats a great idea.

anvil,
his actions seem more about messing with your head than any concern for the child, there really is VERY little authentic reason to maintain communication. you seem more concerned about his "rights" as a parent and him ACTING like a parent than he does.

NO. It is not BLACk and WHITE. it s both. He does this following behavior AND he is trying to be there as a parent. He is also concerned about his rights as a parent.

on the one hand you say you're "not ready" but at the same time you are considering a restraining order...

YEs. I am not ready to DEAL with a divorce. I have a ton of other things going on. Everyday things, all day things. A divorce is not at the top of the list. A year ago the top of my list was getting my son out of a chaotic living situation. That took a few months. Now it is done. And life happens. Everyday. I make my money, I care for my son, and I am finding more and more time in my life for me, to untangle the sh*t about ME that caused me to stay with the abusive F*&^ for so long. He got sober. He is still not well. These things take time to reverberate in and make sense. It took a long time.

YES. I am considering a RO. Because his anxiety gets to him and he has control problems. And I want to be safe and I want to be happy.

AND...we share a child, a child who loves him, who looks forward to seeing him. I have a therapist in place who monitors exHs involvement, who helps me make decisions that are best for son.

These are ALL true things. I am not just some lump who has not done anything to resolve a mess I set into motion. And I am not unaware of the imbalances in ME, and I am working that in there. But taking exH out of childs life completely and forcing him to prove his custodial strength and rights in court would NOT BE IN THE BEST interest of our child. I have a very insightful professional on the case.

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful responses.

Thumper

Is there a way to disengage at all? Would he see email contact only as something threatening? I have to admit that I'm a bit surprised the counselor endorses this level of entanglement and control/power. Is there a way to let her handle it (ie work with son and father and son and you but keep it separate) and you step back?

I do understand a little of your struggle regarding doing what is best for you versus what is best for your child. When I made my husband leave I felt like I was throwing them under the bus to save myself. I did all kinds of things that first year we were apart that I really really regret. Some if it was done because I was worried about him, worried about being fair, etc. and a large part of it was just hanging on to the idea that they must see him no matter what because they wanted it. They were hurting but I couldn't fix that hurt. In hindsight it did actual damage to my boys to be with him when he was so unhealthy. I should not have allowed it. I want to clarify that I'm just sharing my experience, not saying your child is being damaged. My boys were going overnight etc.

My husband was still drinking then and I think it would have been better for the kids to just not be around him. If I'd have said 'you are not healthy enough to have them overnight' he would have blown a gasket but he wouldn't have done anything *real* to change it and he had visitation orders in place that awarded him that. I should have said it and went to court to get it. Once I stopped meddling the visitation mostly stopped anyway.

He has left now (and is apparently sober) and he hasn't seen them in a year and only a twice the year prior. Calls are few and far between. He has abandoned them. My heart is breaking for them but it is what it is.

In my case they gained a much healthier mom once I disengaged. I'd have been swallowed up had I stayed. You are out. That is good. I guess my only advice, based on my experience, is to keep taking small steps that make sense and try to do so in the moment rather than spend so much time thinking about how it might affect tomorrow.

Buffalo66

Thanks thumper

I am taking small steps, and definitely moving forward. My son is not suffering for my lack of pulling him out of this awful dynamic: I did that already. Many times, and I have been vigilant and loving and made boundaries, and now exH is gone and I am moving on.

I think one thing to make clear about why the therapist is taking the tack he is: My son has a benign tumor, and eye complications from that, which we have been dealing with for while. Very grateful its not more serious.

BUt, in the last two years he has shown his symptoms and then was diagnosed with tourettes syndrome, which is a spectrum disorder. And it is hereditary. His father, my exH has had the extreme lower end of the spectrum his whole life, but never got treated. When he got sober, his symptoms were more obvious, and the meds he did seek were to control that and the stress that exascerbates it.

NOw, we had been working w therapist sans the exH for a hile, and I was glad, because he can be so controlling, etc. Everything is a big show about him, etc...BUt it was tough to make headway in the tic department. The dr is smart...

So when we really pushed for exH to come in to the sessions more regularly (at drs request), My husbands clarity and compassion and understanding of the sensations our son was having, the incredible frustration at not being able to stop the movements or sounds was soooo comforting to our son. And my exH had some advice, and some very helpful things that he told therapist and I about that had worked for him for years. tricks to curb the anxiety when tourettes tics kick in. He shared these w our son, and it was amazing. Here was this good for nothing, mess of my life, who had very valuable skills in the one arena that our son needed help in that I could not provide him with.

The clear acknowledgement and communication and skills from his daddy really made a major improvement in every way.

hence: therapist pushes for exH to come to sessions, builds up his ego, etc, because this is HELPING our son. And S7 has really improved since Ex H got involved, even if he cannot sustain it all the time.

So, therapist feels that the ideal scenario for our child would be his father getting help and resolving the disorder for himself, and then being more present for son.

Its kind of a fantasy, but the communication, and us communicating to eacg other is helpful.

Sometimes life is too complicated to put it all in one post. I could write a novel, but I was just needing support and advice on the stalking stuff, which is between me and exH.

I will look into the therapist doing separate sessions, or maybe we could stagger, but he seems pretty sold on the family doing the sessions together.

I have not shared therecent obsessive stalking stuff with the doctor yet, though.

Thumper

Yes I've followed your postings. You have really done a lot of work. Those aren't small steps!!

That is wonderful. What a gift for your son.

That make sense. That is true for every father on the planet but I can see the extra bit in your situation. Maybe you could have a frank discussion with the counselor about how much you are expected to do to orchestrate this outside of the counseling session. How could the therapist assist in scaling back to something a little more sane for you? Share the stalking and your other concerns.

Well you always get more then you ask for If something misses the mark because a detail is missing, just leave it on the table. It isn't personal. No one wants to make you feel more frustrated then you already are. Just sharing what reminds us of us basically

Sounds like a good counselor so he must have a reason. I'd actually buy it hook line and sinker if it meant less entanglement outside the sessions.

Hope you have a restful night. Thinking of you and your son - and even his dad tonight. That peace and recovery comes to each of you.