Help me please

Old 07-20-2012, 04:20 AM
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Help me please

This breaks my heart to tell but we need help there are three players in this story. Myself my fiancé and my fiances younger brother who's only 22. I'm 24 my fiancé is 25. Their mother died in part because of alcholism 7 years ago. His younger brother lives with us and he goes out every night with his friends who are into several kinds of drugs and heavy drinking. And when he comes home every nigh he drinks 2 bottles of wine and half a bottle of whiskey by himself if not more. When he runs oh he drinks whatever is readily available and my fiancé and I have resorted to just not buying any alcohol. We don't want to restrict his life we aren't his parents but he is our family and we love him dearly. He can't sleep if he doesn't drink and when he doesn't drink he starts going through our cabinets taking my sleeping pills ( I'm on some different meds that cause some insomnia) and will resort to taking any kind of sleep aid. NyQuil, ibpro pm, taking it from us. And the drinking just never stops in the last week he drank more than 15 bottles of wine and 6 bottles of whiskey by himself. It worries me and my fiancé. We have tried talking to him and pleading with him because we just see it going further and further down hill. My fiancé just says he has to hit Rock bottom first. And I know we can't change him but is there anything that we can do or say? Something someone might have said that made someone else realize how much pain they are causing themselves and the others around him. There have been so many nights where I've stayed awake caring for him because of the affects of the drinking and the pills he takes. he's a great guy so wonderful and sweet. But I can't watch him doin this to himself. I don't want to do anything that would push him away our doors have always been open to him and his friends. I've asked his boyfriend about it and he's afraid to say anything. His father doesn't know about it because it would kill him if he did, but we are running out of options i just keep thinking he's gonna go too far one night and we will have to go to the hospital. He's admitted to us when we pressed the subject that he sees he has a problem but he's just going to. It back and for a week he does then it's straight back to drinking and pills. I haven't refilled any of my sleep aid perscriptions in weeks because I know he will take it and I couldn't stand knowing it might be because of them something happens to him.
This has not only afflicted us but his personal life also. He can't wake up in time for work at least 1-2 times a week. On his days off he's so hung over he doesn't get out of bed until night where he takes off with his friends. At home when he doesn't drink he goes into fits of rage. He will start taking knives and throwing them around the kitchen and breaking dishes. When I asked him why he would take my pills he said because I can't sleep with out something. He does not have a lot of stress he has a job at an electronic store as a floor salesman. And at him he only has to keep his things clean and do dishes every other week.
There are so many of his actions that worry us and I am willing to do whatever I can to help him. Every time I see him bring home more liquor I want to take it and smash it outside on the porch. We have taken alcohol and hidden it from him thrown it out we have thrown out all of our sleep aids or medications with else affects. We all need help. I need to know what we can do to help him see what he's doing to himself and his family. Please. I'm beggin and pleading for some help with my hopefully soon to be brother in law. We only want him to have a long and happy healthy life.
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:38 AM
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I know you don't want to hear this but you really can't help someone who doesn't want help. You should move this to the friends and family section, there you'll find many others who have dealt with this type of thing.
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:39 AM
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Im so sorry for u. My heart aches for him and for u and your fiancé. Welcome to SR, I hope u get some good advice here. All the best. X
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:45 AM
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I'm sorry I didn't realize there was a friends and family section I just broke down in tears to iChat because he ended up drinking and vomiting and passing out in the bathroom my fiancé and I had to carry him to bed and I felt so powerless. And I know he needs help. Is there a way I can move it myself? Should I copy and paste or just ask a moderator? I'm sorry for the Inconvinence. Thank you for your sympathy. And I know if he doesn't want the help himself there's not much we can do...I'm just hopin there's a small thread I can grasp at and tug to pull him back up.
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:49 AM
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I'd just copy and paste it.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:12 AM
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I can move it for you - done

I'm sorry for your situation.

I agree there's very little you can do about someone who doesn't want to change...but there is a lot you can do though in regards to ground rules and what you'll tolerate.

I know you'll find a lot of support here - welcome to SR
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:32 AM
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I'm so sorry. I can see how much you care and how strong the addiction has a hold of him.

Read the stickies at the top of this forum. There is so much good information in there. Keep reading and posting here.

I need to know what we can do to help him see what he's doing to himself and his family
Allow him to feel the consequences of his behavior.

What are the consequences that would normally apply? If I started throwing knives around I would find myself living alone. I don't have a room mate but if I did they would kick me out or call the police. Someone would come in and remove my children. If I were to pass out in vomit, I would wake up in vomit. I'd then have to clean that up. If I slept all day and only did dishes every other week, I'd be living in a pig sty.

He'll lose his job eventually. Will you allow him to live with you for free (does he pay his fair share now?) because if I lose my job, I'd be homeless.

He will not see what he is doing to himself until he experiences the consequences of what he is doing to himself.

People have said that enabling is "loving an addict to death" and that is surely true because enabling them makes it possible to sink deeper and deeper into addiction. You are helping the addiction flourish, not the person.

The other side of the enabling coin is personal sacrifice. You are making considerable personal sacrifices and there is a forum full of people here that can attest to the very slippery slope that is. Al-anon is a support group for friends and family of problem drinkers. People there understand. They get it. Check out a few meetings.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:39 AM
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Welcome to SR. You will get a lot of support here and experience, strength and hope (ESP).

The spot you find yourself in is emotionally exhausting and bewildering but you are on the right path and in time you will find clarity and even some peace and serenity if you keep seeking it... when we come to understand the truth and reality of loving an alcoholic and begin to make decisions and create boundaries we find that change is not easy but is the truly loving thing to do for all concerned.

What you have heard from others is very true ... we cannot wish recovery on anyone as they must desire and seek it themselves. What we can do as loved ones is "raise the bottom" so to speak by learning how we can create healthy boundaries four ourselves and our loved ones.

Loving an alcoholic and coping with their addiction under the same roof is a huge challenge and alcoholism is progressive...it will get worse... usually much worse.

I have been there and what helped me were several things... alanon, counseling with an addictions specialist, this website and reading, reading, reading, reading... everything I could get my hands on regarding addiction and codependency.

Soak up information... knowledge is power and when you start seeing the "whole picture" you will be in a better place to make decisions about how to deal with your alcoholic loved one.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:04 AM
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ya said a lot and theres a lot of different suggestions. 1st off, you and your fiance are allowing it to happen around you. why should he do anything about it when you are helping him continue living in an insane state? rather insane for you to be alowing it,too.

you can keep him around you and keep it up and love him to death or you can stop enabling him, let him hit bottom, then decide he wants help, then love him to life.

its your choice and i hope for your own sake you stop living in the insanity.
the best move anyone around me did when i was a practicing alcoholic was to throw me out of their lives.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:10 AM
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Welcome to the SR family!

I'm glad you found us, but sorry for the reason that brought you here. I hope you will continue to post and read as much as needed. We are here to support you.

At the top of each forum section, there is a collection of permanent posts (called sticky posts). Those Sticky posts contain some of our stories and a ton of wisdom!

Here is one of my favorite stickies:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Hopeworks View Post
Welcome to SR. You will get a lot of support here and experience, strength and hope (ESP).

The spot you find yourself in is emotionally exhausting and bewildering but you are on the right path and in time you will find clarity and even some peace and serenity if you keep seeking it... when we come to understand the truth and reality of loving an alcoholic and begin to make decisions and create boundaries we find that change is not easy but is the truly loving thing to do for all concerned.

What you have heard from others is very true ... we cannot wish recovery on anyone as they must desire and seek it themselves. What we can do as loved ones is "raise the bottom" so to speak by learning how we can create healthy boundaries four ourselves and our loved ones.

Loving an alcoholic and coping with their addiction under the same roof is a huge challenge and alcoholism is progressive...it will get worse... usually much worse.

I have been there and what helped me were several things... alanon, counseling with an addictions specialist, this website and reading, reading, reading, reading... everything I could get my hands on regarding addiction and codependency.

Soak up information... knowledge is power and when you start seeing the "whole picture" you will be in a better place to make decisions about how to deal with your alcoholic loved one.
I made the decision to leave...it is not the decision everyone makes and I have great respect for that, and for those who choose to stay and deal with the alcoholism. But I left for several reasons. Here are a few...

1. My own sanity. At first, after not seeing her for over a dozen years, there was the novelty of being reunited, that was quickly over, replaced by this actual need she had for liquor, I saw her drinking habit for the first time at a wedding reception. She did NOT eat. She wanted to stop at a bar before the reception for a quick beer. Then at the wedding reception, she proceeded to drink roughly 6-7 beers (while I had one) she had no interest in the food, and wanted to leave the reception early??!!...she did not dance with me. She literally wanted to go to the liquor store after the reception. Another six pack consumed. This turned daily. I couldnt keep the little fridge in the room stocked fast enough, if there was a 12 pack, she would finish it, if there was an 18 pack, maybe 2 days. Soon she started to supplement that with "shots" of vodka. This all started to weigh on my mind heavily, when it was apparent that she was a hardcore alcoholic, and I had no idea initiallly. She would get inebriated NIGHTLY. This was a complete turn off to me, personally. I started to stress about about the drinking and our own future, and the relationship turned into one of stress, anxiety and worry. I would sweat profusley through the day and night, and joy quicky escaped from my life and mind, replaced by constant worry.

2. Her health. She didnt want to quit and would get enraged if anyone called her on her alcoholism...she seemed happiest when surrounded by other drunks and I am a very light "social" drinker, not a heavy daily drinker so that was nail one in the coffin of incompatibility. She was suffering from malnourishment, the abdominal swelling and pencil like limbs she had were testament. The muscles on her arms and legs were literally atrophied and she found it humorous. She had no use for exercise. She was not taking solid food. This to me was shocking. I had never witnessed that in any woman I was with. She would munch on an occasional taco, but I had seen her go days in a row with no solid food, only beer, vodka, gatorade in the morning and antacid pills. She had mentioned that her hair was falling out in clumps, and she was developing a small bald spot and that it worried her. She attributed this to stress. Her stomach was an absolute mess. She had ulcers and the daily 9+ beers and vodka couldnt be healthy for the lining of the stomach and esophogus. She had nausea and sour stomach each and every morning. The mornings began with tremors. It was all sad and stressful to witness. Her mental health took a hit as well. She was bitter/angry at the world, and easily aggravated by little things, and that got on my nerves fast. She didnt respect anyone but fellow drunks and junkies and that got on my nerves as well.

3. Her life was in shambles. She lost a home, was in the process of losing her car, and had lost her last job....she was homeless and unemployed when I "rescued" her. Destitute and penniless as well. Her resume was great except for the part of "Are you a convicted felon?" part of the applications, so getting a job was beyond difficult. Add to that her current legal status of 2 warrants out for her arrest in 2 different counties? This also all added to my stress levels.

Finally, I had enough, once she had pretty much decided that I was too "boring and lame and straight" for her, and sided with the drunks in her life, I cut her loose and talked to my attorney. I was sad at losing this person BUT on the other hand, my sanity is slowly returning, the stress and anxieties are a lot less now, and I hold out hope for a normal relationship with a normal woman someday. Her future looks to me, bleak at best. I am glad not to be a part of it.
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:59 PM
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Thank you everyone for all your advise and support. There's so much here for me to read and hopefully learn from. We will have to definitely make tighter ground rules for him it just feels funny because we aren't his parents. And I'll defiantly to try Nd stop cleaning up after him and making more act
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:00 PM
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Thank you everyone for all your advise and support. There's so much here for me to read and hopefully learn from. We will have to definitely make tighter ground rules for him it just feels funny because we aren't his parents. And I'll defiantly to try Nd stop cleaning up after him and making more Active decisions and repercussions to his actions. Thankfully we don't have any children in our house yet and it's just us 3 but I know we want to continue with our lives and help him find safe and even footing in his.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:17 PM
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Pogostick,

It is okay if you are not his parents in a biological way, but you could parent him.
That is up to you two. It will be hard, very hard, and you and your fiancee will have to meet on decisions and repercussions of his drinking.
If his illness can be arrested this early, there is a good chance of total recovery, but he will have make an effort himself.
Please educate everyone in your family about what is happening and get back up.
some specialists would be a great resource for you now.

Thank you, and thank you for your little brother.
Beth
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:15 AM
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I would like everyone here to know you gave me a lot of confidence to do what I think are some beginning stages of what needs to be done. Today my fiancé and I talked to his father who delt the most closely with their mother who suffered from alcoholism and ultimately passed away due in part to alcoholism and pills.

We all decided collectively as a family to get in touch with specialists in our area and look into AA meetings and meeting for family members so that we can all better understand what happened to their mother and what he is also going through and what we can do to support him and help him in this. We all understand we can only do really as much as we can and try an help him.

This makes me feel so much better knowing that it's not just me any more and that now as a family we can all do this together. Today I also went through all our cabinets found any sleep aids refilled my perscriptions and bought a case to lock them in a hidden box in our room. I think as much as our lives will change it shouldnt leave me unable to deal with what I need to deal with as well I just need to keep them in a place where he can't get them. Any other sleep aids were thrown out. I found several bottles of alcohol hidden through the house and got rid of them too. Until we can get to talk to a specialist and therapist we don't want to get rid of all his alcohol so we left what he had recently bought.

My fiancé and I are not drinkers really and don't care if we don't drink anymore and are willing to not have it in our house if that's what it means. Ultimately what we want is our brother to be safe happy and healthy.

I will try to keep updates as things go on. But I wanted to thank everyone for givin me some direction and a way to move forward I felt very lost and hopeless. I now feel like we have somewhere to go. Thank you so much for all your support.
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:07 AM
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Pogostick, you and the family should check into going to Al-Anon meetings.

You can take an alcoholic to AA, pay for all kinds of doctors, therapists, and rehabs, but if the alcoholic does not want to stop drinking, he will not stop drinking. I know you have hope and good intentions, but you cannot fix this.

IMO, the most loving thing you can do for him is to set boundaries for yourselves, that is, what behavior you will and will not allow in your home. Then, communicate the consequences as to what will happen if your boundaries are not respected.
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Old 07-24-2012, 04:48 AM
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Right now we have a list that we have put together kind of like a pro and cons list but a behavior and consequences list. I still don't feel it is our right to set up certain limits to him but I am starting to see it is our right to also set up certain limits.
Like the knife throwing and breaking dishes that is a limit. And something that I should not tolerate.
Medication stealing. Tonight he came in stumbling into our room after 4 am. Reeking and I heard the bathroom flush several times and the sounds of sickness. Feigning sleep I let him go through our bathroom and search for the pills and then realized this behavior is not ok on his part and mine. There's no reason I should feign sleep or allow him to search through our cabinets and drawers. And when he started yelling at me for the pills my fiancé took him to his room and I could hear them arguing and then he came back and apologized to me.
The radical mood swings and destruction of objects is not ok. I understand every one has ups and downs but slamming and breaking things looking for more alcohol and stumbling and breaking lamps chairs needs to be addressed. Not just replaced or fixed.

We need to charge him for rent so he has some fisical responsibility. And I think giving him more "chores" I use that term loosely as I refuse to live in a "pigstye" and house responsibility should be shared. I won't do his laundry Any more.

I'm starting to see that I am being his mom without giving him any consequences for his actions. Funny that I only realized that just typing this. We shouldn't have to turn our lives upside down or throw out our important medication, stop what we need to do for ourselves for that we can feel we have some control. I know I'm only taking some few steps here and that he needs to really see what he's doing to himself. I know it's up to him. But it's up to us what we are willing to do what we're willing to live with.

I know I need to come to many more realizations. I need to find real consequences I'm willing to dole out and stick to and boundaries that come with it. But tonight even after he came in yelling and screaming I was scared but I knew somewhere he needs this I need this we all need this to happen or nothing will change.
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:03 AM
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We shouldn't have to turn our lives upside down or throw out our important medication, stop what we need to do for ourselves for that we can feel we have some control. I know I'm only taking some few steps here and that he needs to really see what he's doing to himself. I know it's up to him. But it's up to us what we are willing to do what we're willing to live with.

I know I need to come to many more realizations.

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Old 07-24-2012, 07:36 AM
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Pogostick, it sounds like you're on your way. Congratulations on setting up Team You -- you will need them while you navigate this.

My only advice, and this comes from experience, is to really, really educate yourself on what you're dealing with. That includes taking advantage of support groups like Al-Anon or these forums, so you can get a real-world picture of how boundaries work and what "detachment" looks like. Since your fiance's mom died of alcoholism and your fiance's brother is experiencing (what looks like full-blown) alcoholism, this is going to be a facet of your life as long as you are in this relationship.

Like everyone else has said, there's nothing in particular you can say or do to help him see the light. But I did get one piece of advice that helped me look at the alcoholic behavior in a new way. Someone said that the alcoholism will fill up the space you give it. Your goal as an enabler and a witness and a family member is to stop giving it space. That might mean the brother has to move out. That means you might stop cleaning up his messes and paying his bills. But ultimately it means that you let him live with the consequences of his drinking, and let him have the dignity of making his own choices, good or bad.

The good news is that you get to decide how much space this takes up in your life, too. That's what good boundaries are about. And if experience serves me at all, my thought is that once you change the way you've been dealing with this, you're going to be much less tolerant of the chaos and drama. You don't need anyone else's permission to deal with this in your life, not even your fiance's. You get to decide how you live.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:42 AM
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I still don't feel it is our right to set up certain limits to him but I am starting to see it is our right to also set up certain limits.
You're contradicting yourself here. Not only is it your RIGHT to set limits and boundaries for your own life and your own home, it is your RESPONSIBILITY to do so. It sounds to me like you are willing to set limits for HIS sake, but not your own. Nothing you describe about his behavior sounds healthy to live with. Please examine how he is affecting you, your life, your feelings, and your stress level. No, you should not be afraid of the person you are letting live in your house. You need to honor yourself here Pogostick.
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