choublak

I understand now that I meant it in a very specific context.

The context being, somebody new comes in here, or in Newcomers to Recovery, and their loved one is an alcoholic. This newcomer is devastated and desperately wants their loved one back, back before alcohol had taken such control. And there is always someone who comes in and posts something like, "he has to want to quit drinking for himself, and trust me I know, because I used to be that guy." I mean it's easy for YOU to say that you USED to be that guy, at least from the perspective of the distraught loved one of the A. This is directed at the general population, not anyone in particular. And yes, I now know that there are a lot of couples where one gets sober and the other stays drunk, I apologize for being so general when saying "the alcoholics". It's just that one scenario where someone chimes in and says they used to be an active A but aren't anymore, while I know people are offering their experience, it's like..."oh okay, congrats on your sobriety, now why can't "my" A be more like you?" or something.

FifiRhubarb

I see what you're saying. Good point. I didn't see your original post but still. Also, am I the only one who wishes I was the A? Just because he doesn't seem to feel the pain I feel. He takes the edge off with alcohol. I feel everything he does, and have no control over it. I feel he has all the power, even if he doesn't have power over his disease. If that makes any sense.

wicked

It makes sense to me fifi. You feel he has the power, because you give him power every time you back down to his disease or enable him in some way. And, you are right he has no control over how much he drinks, if he cannot stop when he starts. so the alcohol is running both of you, you are more indirectly affected by the alcohol. Just by his reaction to it, and then your reaction to him.
I think that makes sense. I hope it does.

Beth

pinkdog

The problem is that it's hard on everyone. Love and a hug to you.

SadHeart

1. Yep, they get relief of oblivion; we never do.

2. They have someone taking care of them no matter how awful they are: spouses, parents, adult (and sometimes not so adult) kids, programs, etc... Nobody helps us: we carry the load of two adults in the household, do most of the finances, childrearing, household chores, without a break. They get all the benefits, the laying around, sleeping late, recreation, etc... Plus they make so much extra work. And if we don't do the caretaking, they have no trouble finding someone else who will do it. Nobody wants to help us with our boring old mundane problems of paying bill, and taking care of sick children, and holding down two jobs...

3. They get so much under symnpathy and understanding. No matter how abusive or nasty they get or what they steal or break or do, there's a whole continguent of people rushing forward to explain it's not their fault, it's the disease's fault, they can't help it, they are poor widdle victims. A great deal of social pressure is put on us to 'be understanding' to 'forgive' (which means usually to pretend it didn't happen and should have no consequences) and to be 'supportive'. Let us lose a job, snap at a neighbor, yell at our kids, get a traffic ticket and there's no sympathy, understanding, forgiveness or support to be found. It's our fault and we deserve what happens; if they do it it's still our fault and we deserve what happens.

I'd be very tempted just to check out of life and into a bottle except that at the very end they are often left in horrible (altho earned) circumstances: alone and with awful health problems. Altho on the other hand, I'm not so sure they notice or care. And often they are not more miserable than us even then--we can get horrible illness and be abandoned to.

If there's only two choices, being the substance abuser or being the one living with him/her, the clear choice would be to be the substance abuser.

Fortunately there's a third choice, neither abuse substances or associate with anyone who abuses substances. And that's when life starts to get really good.