Atheist/Non-Believers second class recovers?
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Atheist/Non-Believers second class recovers?
Does anyone feel like Atheist and non-believers are second class recovers when it comes to recovery? Like when you first try to quit drinking or drugging, first they people tell you to go to AA. Even when they know you don't believe in a God or personal god. They say try it anyway or you can believe in a ROCK (What?).
Or in Secular Recovery forum you can't talk about how god base recovery just does not work for use and explain why.
Hope this thread does not get locked.
Or in Secular Recovery forum you can't talk about how god base recovery just does not work for use and explain why.
Hope this thread does not get locked.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lowcountry
Posts: 2,762
Athiesm doesn't indicate some second class status; .....just a minority status.
No big deal really. Everywhere , whether it's personal religious conviction (or worldview) , or ethnicity, some folks are the minority. Being in the minority is no reason to abandon your position.
AVRT seems to be workable in a more universal way. imho
Years ago, what other people thought used to bother me a little ( since it seemed they were so obviously wrong)
Now, I'm more fascinated at the diversity of thought. Something to be celebrated !?!
I'd heard someone comment on "acceptance" once. They said; " you don't have to believe (accept) what somebody else says, .....just accept that they believe it.
Somehow , that put it more in perspective.
No big deal really. Everywhere , whether it's personal religious conviction (or worldview) , or ethnicity, some folks are the minority. Being in the minority is no reason to abandon your position.
AVRT seems to be workable in a more universal way. imho
Years ago, what other people thought used to bother me a little ( since it seemed they were so obviously wrong)
Now, I'm more fascinated at the diversity of thought. Something to be celebrated !?!
I'd heard someone comment on "acceptance" once. They said; " you don't have to believe (accept) what somebody else says, .....just accept that they believe it.
Somehow , that put it more in perspective.
I went out with several people after an AA meeting one night. I made the comment that I like it when other people disagree with me. They looked at me like I had three heads. I explained that different perspectives sometimes change my view of reality. I will adopt other perspectives, (in whole or it part) if I believe they are more accurate, that is, more in keeping with reality. I try not to be too attached to ideas. Perhaps some of what I said registered with them, I don’t know.
I think it’s unfortunate that the language we use often includes phrases like “he’s right”. A person IS not right. “Being right” is not a quality of a person’s being (does that make sense?). A "view" of something may be more accurate than another "view" but it is not a quality of being…. it’s just an idea.
Does anyone feel like Atheist and non-believers are second class recovers when it comes to recovery? Like when you first try to quit drinking or drugging, first they people tell you to go to AA. Even when they know you don't believe in a God or personal god. They say try it anyway or you can believe in a ROCK (What?).
I've certainly run across the notion that those who aren't in AA have lower quality recovery. That's the whole "Dry Drunk" thing.
The real question is whether or not to ACCEPT this view, which I do not and which, increasingly, the world at large does not...because, I think, in part at least, because of people like us who openly challenge the idea. Yes, sometimes we get shut down, but the tide is turning. I really believe that.
The real question is whether or not to ACCEPT this view, which I do not and which, increasingly, the world at large does not...because, I think, in part at least, because of people like us who openly challenge the idea. Yes, sometimes we get shut down, but the tide is turning. I really believe that.
Atheism is a choice. Being a theist is a choice. Being agnostic is a choice. More so, these choices can all be made in an arena of perfect freedom, although many unfortunately feel they are enslaved to their own beliefs, and against the beliefs of others, nonetheless, freedom of choice surely exists for all those with the courage to make their choices with an open mind, an honest heart, and an enduring will.
Although we all have paths which cross, we still must walk our own walks, and no matter our personal beliefs or non-beliefs, we all begin our respective journeys in the same equal way: at the beginning, no less.
Equality rules. Inequality drools. Justice prevails. Truth triumphs. Freedom reigns supreme. Life always finds The Way.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,955
As an atheist in AA I feel as an equal among my peers. I may not share the opinion of many in AA, as it is not important to me that I do. What matters is that I can have my on conception of a HP (God as we understand Him) that makes sense to me. As for the suggested program in the BB, I simply see how a person of faith (the author(s)) of the BB connect to their HP and work the steps from a perspective of faith.
I am not compelled by any canonical law to believe as others in AA do, including the author(s) of the BB. Its all a matter of adaptation through a personal interpretation that can demonstrate how resourceful I am as an atheist to work a faith based program of recovery.
Many years latter in life Bill W had a change of heart regarding the agnostics/atheist:
tying to understanding each other without having to change them to do so.
I am not compelled by any canonical law to believe as others in AA do, including the author(s) of the BB. Its all a matter of adaptation through a personal interpretation that can demonstrate how resourceful I am as an atheist to work a faith based program of recovery.
Many years latter in life Bill W had a change of heart regarding the agnostics/atheist:
In AA's first years I all but ruined the whole undertaking with this sort of unconscious arrogance. God as I understood Him had to be for everybody. Sometimes my aggression was subtle and sometimes it was crude. But either way it was damaging - perhaps fatally so - to numbers of non-believers. Of course this sort of thing isn't confined to Twelfth Step work. It is very apt to leak out into our relationships with everybody. Even now, I catch myself chanting that same old barrier-building refrain, "Do as I do, believe as I do - or else!"
The Dilemma of No Faith, By Bill Wilson, AA Grapevine, April 1961
The Dilemma of No Faith, By Bill Wilson, AA Grapevine, April 1961
"Once the realization is accepted that even between the closest human beings infinite distances continue, a wonderful living side by side can grow, if they succeed in loving the distance between them which makes it possible for each to see the other whole against the sky." ~Rainer Maria Rilke
Its a healthy challenge in open mindedness when we can understand each other without tying to change them in order to do so.tying to understanding each other without having to change them to do so.
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