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I don't know what to do

Old 07-03-2012, 05:08 PM
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I don't know what to do

I have been to detox three times in the last two months. Now I've relapsed for several days straight. I have some really good excuses for that, but I realized that I was actively seeking an excuse (Reflecting on the first relapse, I realized that I felt a twinge of happiness, as in, "here is my chance".)

It's been about 10 standard drinks per day (spread out). There is a co-addiction with Klonopin, which I've been cutting back on (under an addiction specialists' guidance.)

Do I need to go to detox again? The first time I went to detox, they put me in ICU because I was scoring in the mid-30s on their scale. That experience freaked me out.

I felt shaky this morning and had a headache, but nothing else. I was able to type and write normally, which was impossible during my previous detox experience. Nonetheless, given that the first experience freaked me, I drank again. Not enough to get get drunk, but just to take the shakes away.

Maybe that was an excuse? Based on what I've read, those symptoms can relieve themselves. Moreover, they should not appear for quite awhile. I'm at a point where I'm having a bit of booze every 2-3 hours.

Is a few days of being drunk enough to warrant detox? Has anyone had a similar situation?

I am not really looking for "Go immediately to the ER if you stop" answers, because I already know that the ER could fix me. I just want to know about the experiences of others with this.

Last edited by noether445; 07-03-2012 at 05:09 PM. Reason: typos
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:11 PM
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I'd like to add that I can't afford another 5 day stint in detox. I'll get fired.
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:16 PM
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I think if you're drinking like you say you are, you need medical supervision.

If you're mixing benzos with that? You definitely need medical supervision.

It could be the ER, it could be your family Dr...whatever, but I recommend it.

I didn't see a Dr - my last home alone detox did not go well.

Have you thought about what your plans are for staying sober after detox?

D
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:19 PM
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Absolutely, talk to your dr asap or go to an ER.

Detoxing is not predictable and can be dangerous.
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:23 PM
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I had many, many relapses and they were all horrible. Toward the end, I always sought medical help for detox. The shakes, the sweats ... all were so horrible that the only way to relieve them for awhile was more alcohol. Once drinking became a ZERO option for the withdrawals, I sought the help of doctors. It's hard to lay yourself bare before them and tell them what's going on with you, but that's why they're there. Drinking is never a viable solution for withdrawals if you truly want to quit. You don't necessarily need to check yourself into the hospital, but you DO need to get some medical intervention if you want to do this right. Hang in there.
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:40 PM
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Thank you for your advice. I actually stopped taking the klonopin after I started drinking. The two of those together gave me a terrible alcohol dependence within a time-frame of three months. (as in, I went from non-drinker to needing ICU for detox). It's a really bad combination to mix benzos with alcohol.

I'm wondering now if drinking+quitting klonopin is to blame. By now, most the klonopin is probably out of my system. (It is a low dose addiction).

I'll sober up for the night, take my tegretol, and then try the klonopin in the morning, as prescribed. I don't think that a few days of drinking throughout the day is enough to give me the DTs. When I drank before, I was doing a fifth of Vodka by 10:00AM. The last few days have been a half-pint of vodka (about five drinks) plus around five glasses of wine -- these drink are spread across the whole day.

After the first night, I may have confused a hangover with withdrawal, which led to the drinking streak. As I said, I'm not actually getting drunk -- it could very well be psychological, I have a severe panic disorder.

Anyhow, thank-you for your advice. I have a doctor appointment on Thursday with my addiction specialist. We'll see what he says.

Thanks.
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
I think if you're drinking like you say you are, you need medical supervision.

If you're mixing benzos with that? You definitely need medical supervision.

It could be the ER, it could be your family Dr...whatever, but I recommend it.

I didn't see a Dr - my last home alone detox did not go well.

Have you thought about what your plans are for staying sober after detox?

D
Actually, after my last detox I was firmly committed to staying sober. I've got an addiction doctor, I moved in with my parents (whom understand the problem and are very supportive), I set up some temporary obstructions to getting alcohol, got a psychologist, et cetera.

The relapse happened because the CEO of my company came into town from another country (I'm being intentionally vague) and ordered a very expensive bottle of wine. Given the language barriers and all of that, I didn't know how to say no. After several glasses of wine, my determination was whittled down.

Yeah, I know it's an excuse given that I felt pretty excited for a millisecond after he ordered it.

Today I talked with the most gossipy person at work and said that, "due to medicines, I can't drink... so it really stressed me out when ___ came". I also emailed the HR lady. Hopefully the word will spread that I should not be offered alcohol.

After one glass of wine I'm fine. After two? I'm still fine. Once it reaches a bottle, I'm done for the night -- all inhibitions are gone. I start to crave it.

Odd, yes? That's what happens when you mix benzos with alcohol, I guess. It's a very terrible combination that's difficult to understand until it's too late.

I'll update here after the appointment with my addiction specialist so that anyone else in a similar position finds a solution.

My best guess is that he'll say "go to detox again".

Too bad, because I'll get fired if I miss anymore work. I hope for outpatient detox, if detox is necessary.

Last edited by noether445; 07-03-2012 at 08:02 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:11 PM
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Thanks for sharing more of your story Noether

There no doubt that the way to continued sobreity can be slippery - but I found support, like the support here at SR, really helped me keep my resolve.

I spent years putting other things in front of my recovery - including 'not wanting to be rude' and 'how would if look if I don't drink'....the fact is I simply wasn;t valuing myself at the same level I valued other people...and that had to change.

I also finally got it through my head it's not the last glass that does the damage - it's the first.

As far as detox goes...if it's determined you need inpatient detox, go...I'm not being flippant when I say you can always get another job, but your health can be a fragile thing and taken far too much for granted...

believe me I know.

D
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
As far as detox goes...if it's determined you need inpatient detox, go...I'm not being flippant when I say you can always get another job, but your health can be a fragile thing and taken far too much for granted...

believe me I know.

D
Yes, I agree. I'd rather live than have an obituary that cites my career.

BTW, for anyone going through similar issues -- I'm completely sober now and took the doctor prescribed tegretol. That worked like magic. I should have taken it from the start.

I have no withdrawal symptoms. That medicine is prescribed widely in Europe for alcohol detox, but not so much in the US; the hospital probably gave it to me due to the codependency on benzos (since adding valium or librium would just add to the wreck that I've become).

Anyhow, the moral of this story is to follow medical advice. Alcohol detox is scary as hell (I know), and combining benzos with alcohol is a prelude to an awful experience. It damaged me to the point that I had my IQ tested to make sure I didn't end up with brain damage from repeated withdrawals. My psychologist thinks that I have PTSD.

The shakes and DT's started with me when I found some moronic advice about tapering with beer. (plus, I was on a benzo, which complicates everything).

Whomever reads this: I highly recommend that you don't follow any alcohol tapering advice. It gave me DT's and a seizure.

This is a great community -- I hope to contribute whatever I can. I'd been lurking for awhile under different user-names and reading other peoples' tales. Now that I'm on the path to recovery (recent relapses aside), I'm so happy to give back and also find a place of support.
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Old 07-05-2012, 11:12 PM
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I saw the doctor today. He said that what I did was incredibly stupid and to go immediately to an ER if that happens again. He said I got lucky -- and that repeated withdrawals can cause nerve damage, mental dysfunction, and a likelihood of worse withdrawal affects in the future. I knew that, but didn't think it applied to me.

He was, in fact, so concerned, that he took blood to confirm that I was telling the truth. (A liability issue for him, I think). I have a followup appointment with him tomorrow afternoon.

I think that those of us with drug/alcohol problems develop an understanding of our drug/booze before it becomes a serious problem. We know what to expect, how to cure things, and all of that. However, when things become overly problematic, our understanding turns into a deficit. That is, once alcohol becomes a serious issue, it's completely unpredictable. The syndrome requires trained and objective outsiders to treat, but we think we know everything.

I have a PhD in mathematics, I've also published papers in Biology and Physics; I manage 500 engineers. Nonetheless, I made stupid subjective decisions based on my own initial experiences with alcohol. I thought I understood the stuff better than people who'd seen thousands of alcoholics -- people who treated my condition as a medical emergency. That's alcoholic behavior at it's worst.

So then, I made a stupid decision. I played the lottery and somehow won. I tried that before with the stupid alcohol-tapering idea -- it was a serious mistake.

I really hope that someone reads this post and ignores any non-medical advice they receive. That advice, for me was just an excuse to continue drinking and taking benzos. It turned into a catastrophe. Maybe it works for some people, but I think those people are winning a lottery. Maybe I got lucky, but maybe next time I won't.

From now on, I'll just let doctors treat this disorder. I don't believe that alcoholism is a disease, I think it's a behavioral choice (yes, a controversial viewpoint). Nonetheless, acute alcohol withdrawal is a serious and well-documented medical emergency.

If you shake, keep drinking your regular amount until you're ready for detox. Detox only lasts a few days and you'll gain a clarity of mind that you haven't had before. The nurses I've encountered (during three detoxes) are extraordinarily kind and forgiving. Near the end, it's a somehow pleasant experience. (Better yet, just go to detox -- but I guess that not everyone's ready for that).

The hardest part about coming out from detox is that you're left to your own devices. It's a scary feeling and my first impulse was to drink. The first two hospitals I went to didn't leave me with any plan of action. Finally I went to a behavioral health hospital that also did detox -- I was able to smoke, socialize, watch movies, have visitors, make coffee, etc. I wasn't stuck to an IV or laying in bed. If anyone is lucky enough to have that in their area, I recommend it. That hospital set me up with an outpatient plan that's -- more or less -- working for me. So, if anyone goes to detox, make sure to setup an outpatient plan while in the hospital.
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Old 07-06-2012, 12:27 AM
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I see a lot in your thread about how and when to detox. But very little on what you are going to do to stay stopped. I've detoxed once....I didn't enjoy it and don't plan on doing it again. If I were you I'd put some serious thought into some kind of recovery plan....What's worked for me is hanging around with people that have recovered from this seemingly hopeless state of mind and body...And doing what they did.
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:55 AM
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What sapling said. I'm glad you've detoxed, now what is your next step? What is the game plan?
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Old 07-06-2012, 04:21 AM
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The only thing that helped me was putting my EGO aside, and saying in an AA meeting just how screwed up my life had become. I humbled myself and started listening. I had to get out of my own will and get back into the Will of my Higher Power. Only my Higher Power knows what is good for me, I haven't a clue. I screwed everything up!!
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Old 07-07-2012, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by dgillz View Post
What sapling said. I'm glad you've detoxed, now what is your next step? What is the game plan?
I'm living with my parents, whom are very supportive and strongly opposed to me drinking. I had to move away from my alcoholic wife.

I have a psychologist, an addiction specialist, and a whole lot of books. Group therapy is not for me, and I haven't found any evidence that AA is effective for the general population. Any AA meeting I've attended seemed so focused on past behavior that it made me want to drink. Perhaps I went to the wrong meetings, but it seemed bizarre and unproductive. Moreover, there is no scientific evidence that AA works. Some studies have shown that it might correlate to relapse.

So, my plan is to keep up with the psychologist, the addiction doctor, stay away from my toxic-alcoholic wife (who sent me my clothes with a bottle of gin buried in my clothing and a note that said "I love you."). I'm trying to surround myself with people who don't drink, and nonetheless have "wild times" by staying up late, playing games, and drinking too much coffee.

So I do have a plan. But... AA is not for me, group therapy is not for me, and every professional I've encountered agrees that it's not for me (even if it works for others). I'm introverted, I hardly speak except for online, I don't really relate to the stories I've heard in group meetings, and I really need some sort of scientific evidence. Everyone is different.

I've spent most of my adult life at a desk doing math. I'm opposed to cults invented in the 1930s that explicitly reject professional expertise, and I don't feel like talking with a bunch of strangers even if a professional is involved.

I have a select group of friends who know what I've gone through and I socialize with only them. My very best friend quit drinking to help me along. Now we have coffee instead of gin or whiskey.

I've also setup a lot of obstructions to obtaining alcohol. I don't have an ID, for example (I look very young despite being 31). I have people drive me to work so that I don't head off to a bar in a moment of weakness. There are some other things.... but they're all temporary stop-gaps (and they're very weak; as an alcoholic, I know exactly how to go get some booze right now, after last call).

At any rate, I'll work out long term solutions with my psychologist and myself.
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Old 07-07-2012, 01:16 AM
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Have you considered something like Rational Recovery noether?
No meetings at all.

You can find more info in our Secular Connections forum if you think you may benefit from a non 12 step approach

D
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Old 07-07-2012, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
Have you considered something like Rational Recovery noether?
No meetings at all.

...
Yes

I've just finished reading "The Art of AVRT" and "Rational Recover: The New Cure for Addiction". It's seems like a form of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, which is what I'm going through with my psychologist.
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Old 07-07-2012, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
Have you considered something like Rational Recovery noether?
No meetings at all.

...
Yes

I've just finished reading "The Art of AVRT" and "Rational Recover: The New Cure for Addiction". It's seems like a form of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, which is what I'm going through with my psychologist.

Thank-you for pointing me to the sub-forum for me.
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Old 07-07-2012, 01:31 AM
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Thought you may feel it more up your alley...SMART may interest you too...it's quite CBT based as I understand
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Old 07-07-2012, 03:57 AM
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Try your own "scientific evidence" by working the steps of AA. That is where the real change takes place. When you are at a meeting, try to relate to another's story instead of finding the differences.

Have you read the big book? Have you read about any other program and embraced it? We have to work hard for our recovery or we might drink/drug again.

As intelligent as you are, you still mixed booze and benzos. Seriously?

I wish you well on staying stopped!
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by noether445 View Post
I'm living with my parents, whom are very supportive and strongly opposed to me drinking. I had to move away from my alcoholic wife.

I have a psychologist, an addiction specialist, and a whole lot of books. Group therapy is not for me, and I haven't found any evidence that AA is effective for the general population. Any AA meeting I've attended seemed so focused on past behavior that it made me want to drink. Perhaps I went to the wrong meetings, but it seemed bizarre and unproductive. Moreover, there is no scientific evidence that AA works. Some studies have shown that it might correlate to relapse.

So, my plan is to keep up with the psychologist, the addiction doctor, stay away from my toxic-alcoholic wife (who sent me my clothes with a bottle of gin buried in my clothing and a note that said "I love you."). I'm trying to surround myself with people who don't drink, and nonetheless have "wild times" by staying up late, playing games, and drinking too much coffee.

So I do have a plan. But... AA is not for me, group therapy is not for me, and every professional I've encountered agrees that it's not for me (even if it works for others). I'm introverted, I hardly speak except for online, I don't really relate to the stories I've heard in group meetings, and I really need some sort of scientific evidence. Everyone is different.

I've spent most of my adult life at a desk doing math. I'm opposed to cults invented in the 1930s that explicitly reject professional expertise, and I don't feel like talking with a bunch of strangers even if a professional is involved.

I have a select group of friends who know what I've gone through and I socialize with only them. My very best friend quit drinking to help me along. Now we have coffee instead of gin or whiskey.

I've also setup a lot of obstructions to obtaining alcohol. I don't have an ID, for example (I look very young despite being 31). I have people drive me to work so that I don't head off to a bar in a moment of weakness. There are some other things.... but they're all temporary stop-gaps (and they're very weak; as an alcoholic, I know exactly how to go get some booze right now, after last call).

At any rate, I'll work out long term solutions with my psychologist and myself.
Still want to do it your way.

AA has worked for me for over 22 years.

I wish you the best.

Bob R

I wish you the best.

Bob R
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