DoubtfulDebs

"aa is stupid, but i'm not quite ready for a (rr) big plan..."

"jack trimpey is an a**hole, but i'm not quite ready to stop drinking this day at a time..."

you know what i read?

i read people slamnming aa, rr, make up your own alphabet soup.

it's ALL a reason to have another drink today, use again, maybe even stash some away for tomorrow.

nothing has anything to do with the real work of getting straight, sober, and quitting the stuff that brought us here.

cut it out and grow up, stop using/drinking/whatever you're doing that you KNOW is killing you mind, body and spirit - stop trying to create little factions, leave the big names to fight their own corners (i'm talking about jack t. here and plenty of others) and just get straight and get on with your life.

because what will you win if you "prove" x, y, z recovery method wrong?

the only thing you could win is convincing proof that it "failed" - and, therefore, you get to drink/drug/use again!

so anything that brings you, personally, to attack another person's recovery method is evil and counterproductive.

GerandTwine

Your post reinforces my belief that the best form of persuasion is by setting an example. Well, since AVRT does not really include setting an example for other addicts as part of its program, some of us have chosen to include that in part of our "getting on with life" after successfully completing our recoveries using AVRT.

DoubtfulDebs

yes, but who need persuading after we know what our addiction does?

the core of avrt & rr is that nothing external can stop you drinking - because if you think it can, its absence will then become an excuse to drink. god knows i've been there and felt that same way so many times before...

i want to re-post this - "Remember, counting time, as if you are setting new abstinence records every day, has no meaning within the context of permanent abstinence, and is Beast activity.

Your Beast is locked onto that last drink as if it were a delicious, mouth watering meat ball, and IT is amazed that so much time has passed.

IT will try to create a sense of wonderment and amazement that it has been SO LONG since you've had a drink.

The next time you start thinking about "how long it has been," just recognize it as addictive voice, relax, and let the Beast count time."
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post3388675

i know i'm not here to do those things, but please don't anybody take my year and say "i can do that! then i'll prove i'm clear, and i can have a drink again!"

damn that beast and damn every thought it sends, and know that it will continue to send... as long as you are healthy, and alive.

HitRockBottom70

Gerand,
I am new to this and I am so thankful for those who have stayed and posted after making their big plan and feeling confident. I think it is one of the best things we can do as fellow humans...help one another. Yes I was inspired by those of you who broke the written rules of RR and slummed with the rest of us. You all are absolutely amazing and are making a HUGE difference! I am sober today and have made a big plan in large part due to the secular connections forum. THANK YOU! Keep up the good work!

DoubtfulDebs

i think everyone has to find a level where it works, right now i don't think i have enough grounding to try to lead people in rr thinking at all, in fact i might accidentally throw someone off track if they think my year means something about how "good" i am at this (because it doesn't, it's the NEVER and NOW bits in avrt that matter) so it's not about slumming it (all beasts are equal!!) but just time i have spare and wondering like i said about my actual motives...

i think it's possible to be doing avrt perfectly, and to be longterm solidly and securely sober, and talk all day about addiction and drink and avrt, but perhaps not possible for me, right now, without wondering why i want to do it... if that makes any sense??
the "it's been a year, see, you don't have a problem" balloon still goes up from time to time, so me coming on here like "it's been a year - " i'm not saying zomg i'm going to hit the drink but it's a behaviour i recognise as one tried by my beast, so i need to not just go with it and act like it's something to keep talking about.

and now i'm just repreatingmyself, and making less sense each time too, so i'll sign out i think - stick with it, read the book, and learn to recognise your own beast!

Saskia

I've just started reading the threads in Secular Recovery. What I especially like is the "tell it like it is" attitude. I realized that counting days did not work for me. It's helpful to see where people differ in opinions, especially on some of JT's book.

Reading here is giving me more information and insight into recognizing the beast and that is what I need most right now.

TameTheBeast

Would posting on a forum like this be considered beast activity? I mean if we were truly cured wouldnt we just never log on here?

raku

Maybe posting on here is a way to share experiences, instead of dwelling on them.

lillyknitting

I've seen lots of peeps on this form give up on their own. If you really really want to stop, you can and you will.

TameTheBeast

I hope so and in no way want to offend anyone, just seems if were healed we still want social support/talking etc without the meetings of AA, at least for me thats why..

DrSober

I can only speak for me. AA makes my skin crawl. I get into 12-step meetings and all the talk of God and prayer invocations and chanting and "get a sponsor!" and "you have to do it this way," etc etc etc just makes me angry and gets me off-course.

That doesn't mean AA doesn't work for other people. That doesn't mean that people can't find great success in "the rooms." I can't speak for anyone else but me.

I like my LifeRing meetings. I like the philosophy, it's logically consistent from top to bottom. It respects my independence and gives me the freedom to make my recovery program into the form that's comfortable to me. I don't have to label myself an alcoholic or addict (because, I don't drink and I don't use - why would I label myself an addict?), and I don't need to believe some scientistic fairly tale (IMHO) about addiction being a "disease."

Again, this is all me. I am lucky to have an approach and a support network available for me as I'm starting out on this recovery journey that doesn't require me to pound my square-peg-ness into a proverbial round hole. I've had enough of that in my life and I don't need it any more, particularly at this point in my life. Thank his Noodlyness for secular recovery!

freshstart57

All praise to the FSM, DrSober. I like the way you put that, and I agree with the points you made in your post. That other way was never going to be any help to me, so I went with a different approach.

There is only one forum for ranking one recovery system over another, and that is within and limited to our own fine selves. Find your own individual solution and then you will have your answer.

raku

Dr. Sober,

Have you checked out the secular forums on SR ?

DrSober

Oh yes. :-)

GerandTwine

I like the mission statement on the RR World Services page.

TameTheBeast

Can you link it here?

freshstart57

TametheBeast, that is problematic for a number of reasons. SR doesn't allow links to commercial websites like RationalRecovery, and RR has disabled the right click function for copy and paste on their website, so I can only assume they are discouraging reposting their stuff.

Just Google RationalRecovery, and all will be revealed.

soberlicious

I haven't read the mission statement, but my initial thought on this is, I have ended my addiction. It feels good. I would like for others to know how good it feels to be free. The thing is, helping others does not keep me from drinking. Doesn't matter if I post here or don't post here...either way I don't drink. Ever.

Just because I am self recovered and helping others is not a requirement for my abstinence, that doesn't mean I have a rock where my heart is supposed to be. I like to see fellow travelers succeed in life in all ways, ending their addiction just being one facet.

Soberpotamus

There's a blog post today on Drunky Drunk Girl about competition in recovery. I am not sure she follows one program. I think she does a hybrid. She isn't talking that much about different recovery methods, but mostly discussing how people can get competitive in recovery... to "achieve" just like in any other aspect of life. It's a short read. I won't post a link because there is a rule about posting links to blogs.

Deckard

TTB's question had also occurred to me...

Soberlicious, I think your response is right on and helps me clarify the relationship between SR and RR. Thanks for that.