Trouble with an amends
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 4
Trouble with an amends
Dear Forum,
I am 4 years sober and work the steps at least 1 time a year out of the Big Book with a sponsor. This last time I asked my sponsor if I owed an amends for something. At the time another member of the fellowship had bashed me for not agreeing with her and told me I didn't belong in AA. I deal with very low self-esteem at times and depend too much on people to tell me I am ok. I am growing but still, at times, acting out of other's opinions that God's will.
I asked my sponsor if this is something I owed an amends for...
Here is the amends:
Was working for a man who gave me money on every pay check to get health insurance. I was barely making ends meet, and my parents came to visit and wanted to help me out financially. They said that they would like to give me money monthly to help me get by. When they heard I was receiving money for that they said, why don't you allow us to add you to our plan and you can use that money for the bills you need to pay. At the time my boss had skipped checks, paid me too little multiple times, and was just a poor employer. I thought that was a great idea because I knew they would at least get the health insurance payment in on time.
About two months later I did a 5th with my last sponsor. I asked about this situation and asked if it was dishonest, she said no, not at all, because he owed me health insurance and paid me to get that and I did. I continued doing it. Shortly after I switched employers. I also switched sponsor's as I realized she was not what I wanted to grow up to be in AA.
Shortly after, a friend shared a similar experience with me and I was taken back and for the first time wanted to know if I owed an amends there. I talked to my sponsor and she said she didn't understand and to pray on it. So I did, but felt no more clarity. This pattern has continued. So I got fed up and went to this man's home to try to find him and just clean my house regardless. I left him a letter and he did not respond. I called, e-mailed, and texted, and no response. He lives in my town and is constantly involved in scandal, so I hear his name, but no contact. Today I concluded to write a letter and take cash out to put in his mailbox...but part of his house was recently burnt down and I am not sure he would ever get the cash. Not to mention I am unemployed and really cannot contribute that much right now. When writing the letter I had a wave hit me (which is usually GOD speaking) it said that I did not cause direct harm. I prayed over the letter and concluded that I am definitely willing to make the amends, but the mailbox was not a direct way of making it, and I felt an over whelming peace about not making the amends at all.
I am struggling with the fact that I feel now, that I am making an amends because people say I need to and not because it is God's will. I am confused and do not want to live with any guilt or any amends unmade, but I also do not want to cause more harm to my husband or my family financially by making an amends I do not owe just because I think it will help me feel better.
I talked to an outside spiritual adviser who said God forgave me and the importance should be put on a getting and keeping a good job so that I don't have to depend on other's for financial support. I feel ok with that and like I should move forward with God.
What do you think? I'm sorry this is so long...
I am 4 years sober and work the steps at least 1 time a year out of the Big Book with a sponsor. This last time I asked my sponsor if I owed an amends for something. At the time another member of the fellowship had bashed me for not agreeing with her and told me I didn't belong in AA. I deal with very low self-esteem at times and depend too much on people to tell me I am ok. I am growing but still, at times, acting out of other's opinions that God's will.
I asked my sponsor if this is something I owed an amends for...
Here is the amends:
Was working for a man who gave me money on every pay check to get health insurance. I was barely making ends meet, and my parents came to visit and wanted to help me out financially. They said that they would like to give me money monthly to help me get by. When they heard I was receiving money for that they said, why don't you allow us to add you to our plan and you can use that money for the bills you need to pay. At the time my boss had skipped checks, paid me too little multiple times, and was just a poor employer. I thought that was a great idea because I knew they would at least get the health insurance payment in on time.
About two months later I did a 5th with my last sponsor. I asked about this situation and asked if it was dishonest, she said no, not at all, because he owed me health insurance and paid me to get that and I did. I continued doing it. Shortly after I switched employers. I also switched sponsor's as I realized she was not what I wanted to grow up to be in AA.
Shortly after, a friend shared a similar experience with me and I was taken back and for the first time wanted to know if I owed an amends there. I talked to my sponsor and she said she didn't understand and to pray on it. So I did, but felt no more clarity. This pattern has continued. So I got fed up and went to this man's home to try to find him and just clean my house regardless. I left him a letter and he did not respond. I called, e-mailed, and texted, and no response. He lives in my town and is constantly involved in scandal, so I hear his name, but no contact. Today I concluded to write a letter and take cash out to put in his mailbox...but part of his house was recently burnt down and I am not sure he would ever get the cash. Not to mention I am unemployed and really cannot contribute that much right now. When writing the letter I had a wave hit me (which is usually GOD speaking) it said that I did not cause direct harm. I prayed over the letter and concluded that I am definitely willing to make the amends, but the mailbox was not a direct way of making it, and I felt an over whelming peace about not making the amends at all.
I am struggling with the fact that I feel now, that I am making an amends because people say I need to and not because it is God's will. I am confused and do not want to live with any guilt or any amends unmade, but I also do not want to cause more harm to my husband or my family financially by making an amends I do not owe just because I think it will help me feel better.
I talked to an outside spiritual adviser who said God forgave me and the importance should be put on a getting and keeping a good job so that I don't have to depend on other's for financial support. I feel ok with that and like I should move forward with God.
What do you think? I'm sorry this is so long...
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
There may be some wrongs we can never fully right. We don't worry about them if we can honestly say to ourselves that we would right them if we could. Some people cannot be seen - we send them an honest letter. And there may be a valid reason for postponement in some cases. But we don't delay if it can be avoided. We should be sensible, tactful, considerate and humble without being servile or scraping. As God's people we stand on our feet; we don't crawl before anyone.
putting cash in an envelope and putting it in a maibox is not very wise. if you want to give him cash, do it direct.
putting cash in an envelope and putting it in a maibox is not very wise. if you want to give him cash, do it direct.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Welcome to SR...
Congratulations on your 4 years!
Blessings to you and your family as you work thru this situation
.Prayers coming your way for peace and clarity..
I'm not commenting on "what to do" as I've not been in this
situation....ergo.....I don't feel qualified.
However I don't think it's ever wise to put cash where it could be stolen.
Congratulations on your 4 years!
Blessings to you and your family as you work thru this situation
.Prayers coming your way for peace and clarity..
I'm not commenting on "what to do" as I've not been in this
situation....ergo.....I don't feel qualified.
However I don't think it's ever wise to put cash where it could be stolen.
Last edited by CarolD; 06-28-2012 at 07:18 PM.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: PA
Posts: 56
I made financial amends last year to my mother and my aunt at 15 years sober. I was working a 5th step with a sponsee and all of a sudden she shared something that triggered my memory. God laid this amend on my heart:
When I was 13 or 14 years old I stole old coins from my grandfather. Since he and my grandmother have passed I believed I owed the money to who would have inherited them. AA members, including my sponsor, did not say don’t make the amends but acted like I was a little crazy. At times I simply go with what I believe God would have me do and I did in this case.
My aunt lives half the country away from me and my heart was ok with a letter and a check. She accepted it graciously and said she would be able to buy some medication she was unable to afford. She said we all have skeletons in our closet and she admired me for doing this. She said she knew grandpa would forgive me. Jeepers I am just about crying as I write this.
The story with my mother is more complicated. Just about every cent I earned as a child she took. When I was 11 years old an older lady wanted live-in company. I stayed with this lady (overnight) 5 or 6 days a week and was paid. I don’t think this would be allowed now a days. I was so homesick for my family. The lady was nice but I was young and missed my sisters and brother. I have worked out my resentments toward my mother.
So I had to do a set aside with for my mother. I couldn’t bring her wrongs into my amends. Bottom line: I stole the coins that eventually resulted in stealing from her. Period.
My mother said if she had to make up for all the stuff she’s done wrong she’d owe a million. Good thing for her she is not alcoholic. She said she is not going to cash the check and she never has. That is her choice. I consider both amends complete. I am certainly not going to force her to take the money. If I’ve done everything I can then I can let the outcome be God’s.
These amends were one of the most amazing experiences I’ve had in sobriety. Can’t completely explain that but I know in my heart God is happy with me.
Cebmett, you keep up this kind of effort in your program and I see a wonderful spiritual journey for you.
When I was 13 or 14 years old I stole old coins from my grandfather. Since he and my grandmother have passed I believed I owed the money to who would have inherited them. AA members, including my sponsor, did not say don’t make the amends but acted like I was a little crazy. At times I simply go with what I believe God would have me do and I did in this case.
My aunt lives half the country away from me and my heart was ok with a letter and a check. She accepted it graciously and said she would be able to buy some medication she was unable to afford. She said we all have skeletons in our closet and she admired me for doing this. She said she knew grandpa would forgive me. Jeepers I am just about crying as I write this.
The story with my mother is more complicated. Just about every cent I earned as a child she took. When I was 11 years old an older lady wanted live-in company. I stayed with this lady (overnight) 5 or 6 days a week and was paid. I don’t think this would be allowed now a days. I was so homesick for my family. The lady was nice but I was young and missed my sisters and brother. I have worked out my resentments toward my mother.
So I had to do a set aside with for my mother. I couldn’t bring her wrongs into my amends. Bottom line: I stole the coins that eventually resulted in stealing from her. Period.
My mother said if she had to make up for all the stuff she’s done wrong she’d owe a million. Good thing for her she is not alcoholic. She said she is not going to cash the check and she never has. That is her choice. I consider both amends complete. I am certainly not going to force her to take the money. If I’ve done everything I can then I can let the outcome be God’s.
These amends were one of the most amazing experiences I’ve had in sobriety. Can’t completely explain that but I know in my heart God is happy with me.
Cebmett, you keep up this kind of effort in your program and I see a wonderful spiritual journey for you.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 4
Thanks CarolD for the support 
Not a bobble head, thank you so much. You really did help more than I know how to express. It is my spiritual journey, and at times I do look too much to others for guidance when it's my job to clean house with God.
It's funny you told that story, b/c I had an experience yesterday at a meeting with a woman of 15 years sober who has never worked the steps and I 12th stepped her. She was unloading her guilty conscience and was in so much pain. I just thought wow...those amends need to be made, and I never want to end up like this in the years to come... I want to be happy joyous and free. Most importantly I got to get out of myself when I was obsessing over my own amends God Works
I know when God is happy with me too, and I feel at peace with having the willingness, but I think beyond that at this point it is self will. I hadn't really thought about writing a check though.
Thank you dearly for your experience, strength, and hope
Not a bobble head, thank you so much. You really did help more than I know how to express. It is my spiritual journey, and at times I do look too much to others for guidance when it's my job to clean house with God.
It's funny you told that story, b/c I had an experience yesterday at a meeting with a woman of 15 years sober who has never worked the steps and I 12th stepped her. She was unloading her guilty conscience and was in so much pain. I just thought wow...those amends need to be made, and I never want to end up like this in the years to come... I want to be happy joyous and free. Most importantly I got to get out of myself when I was obsessing over my own amends
God WorksI know when God is happy with me too, and I feel at peace with having the willingness, but I think beyond that at this point it is self will. I hadn't really thought about writing a check though.
Thank you dearly for your experience, strength, and hope
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 557
My sponsor used to tell me that if it bothered me to the point that it kept coming up then it needed to be dealt with.
Obviously it's bothering you. If you know who to make an amend to, would it hurt you or them.
Became willing to make amends, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Obviously it's bothering you. If you know who to make an amend to, would it hurt you or them.
Became willing to make amends, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: minnesota
Posts: 272
heres an idea....maybe you could give the money you had set aside for him to a charity or something you really believe in...or some person you think could really need some money...i don't know if that even makes sense, just an idea. i did something similar once. best wishes to you.
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
Originally Posted by cebmatt 
When writing the letter I had a wave hit me (which is usually GOD speaking) it said that I did not cause direct harm. I prayed over the letter and concluded that I am definitely willing to make the amends, but the mailbox was not a direct way of making it, and I felt an over whelming peace about not making the amends at all.
You're doing exactally what you're supposed to be doing. Praying & talking with others.
If you have "an over whelming peace about not making the amends at all" so be it. It's possible that will change in the future. If it does, deal with it then. Keep working on you.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 4
Gratitude
Thank you so much everyone for all of your kind words and loving wisdom...Can't believe how much I am getting out of this. I will continue to move forward in Prayer and Meditation. As of now I am staying completely willing to make this amends, I am going to look for the right opportunity before I decide to donate to another foundation because I know I get the most out of amends when I am humbled by my ability to mess things up and GOD's ability to straighten them out. I am grateful beyond belief for you! 
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Trenches, Texas
Posts: 778
"...when to do so would injure them or others"
I do not fall into the category of others but my family sure does. I had a bill collector call just yesterday. The book tells me I may get drunk if I am unwilling to face my creditors not if I can't actually pay the money back immediately. I was honest with the creditor. I explained that she was unfortunately at the bottom of a long list of people I still owed money to..currently I owe around $14,000. When I got sober it was around $18000. This particular lady calling wasn't at the top because it had no direct impact on my son's well being. He's 5. My legal bills come first. Without keeping them current I have no license to drive. With no license to drive I cannot get to work which pays my legal bills to drive, car insurance, and child support. With no license I cannot get to school...I am getting close to finishing a bachelors in computer science and I explain to the creditor that the money may come faster if I were to graduate and obtain a better job.
Am I willing to pay the money back? You bet! Do I have it readily available? Not always, I make the best deal like the book suggests...one of them is amazingly humble..like $25 a month for the next who knows how long, lol.
If the money cannot be given to the individual, say they cannot be located, the atonement or at-one-ment can still be accomplished. The money can still be put back rightfully into the universe. Ever wonder who randomly and anonymously pays off layaway accounts at Walmart, Kmart, Target, etc around the holidays? Large department stores, Macy's I believe it is, have an account set up by the HR department specifically for amends from AA members....the money that goes into it is spent on the needy, homeless, etc...Someone above me also suggested a random charity.
When it comes to willingness the only question is "How free do I want to be?"
I do not fall into the category of others but my family sure does. I had a bill collector call just yesterday. The book tells me I may get drunk if I am unwilling to face my creditors not if I can't actually pay the money back immediately. I was honest with the creditor. I explained that she was unfortunately at the bottom of a long list of people I still owed money to..currently I owe around $14,000. When I got sober it was around $18000. This particular lady calling wasn't at the top because it had no direct impact on my son's well being. He's 5. My legal bills come first. Without keeping them current I have no license to drive. With no license to drive I cannot get to work which pays my legal bills to drive, car insurance, and child support. With no license I cannot get to school...I am getting close to finishing a bachelors in computer science and I explain to the creditor that the money may come faster if I were to graduate and obtain a better job.
Am I willing to pay the money back? You bet! Do I have it readily available? Not always, I make the best deal like the book suggests...one of them is amazingly humble..like $25 a month for the next who knows how long, lol.
If the money cannot be given to the individual, say they cannot be located, the atonement or at-one-ment can still be accomplished. The money can still be put back rightfully into the universe. Ever wonder who randomly and anonymously pays off layaway accounts at Walmart, Kmart, Target, etc around the holidays? Large department stores, Macy's I believe it is, have an account set up by the HR department specifically for amends from AA members....the money that goes into it is spent on the needy, homeless, etc...Someone above me also suggested a random charity.
When it comes to willingness the only question is "How free do I want to be?"
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LA - Lower Alabama
Posts: 5,068
I think you nailed it here:
The 9th step also bears some scrutiny, emphasis mine:
You are clearly exempted, at least for the moment, because the amends is not possible at this time. Perhaps this will change in the future, and you can make amends then.
So I got fed up and went to this man's home to try to find him and just clean my house regardless. I left him a letter and he did not respond. I called, e-mailed, and texted, and no response. He lives in my town and is constantly involved in scandal, so I hear his name, but no contact. Today I concluded to write a letter and take cash out to put in his mailbox...but part of his house was recently burnt down and I am not sure he would ever get the cash. Not to mention I am unemployed and really cannot contribute that much right now.
Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others
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