Boundaries
To thine own self be true.
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Boundaries
So, here is some of the work I have been doing this weekend. This is all taken directly from a book called "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend. Not necessarily all direct quotes but most of this is.
Any confusion of responsibility and ownership in our lives is a problem of boundaries. The inability to set appropriate boundaries at appropriate times with the appropriate people can be very destructive.
When you take over another's responsibilities they are irresponsible and happy and you are responsible and miserable.
Boundaries define us. They define what is me and what is not me. A boundary shows me where I end and someone else begins, leading me to a sense of ownership.
We are responsible TO others and FOR ourselves. Many times, others have "burdens" that are too big to bear. They do not have enough strength, resources or knowledge to carry the load and they need help. Denying ourselves to do for others what they CANNOT do for themselves is showing the "sacrificial love of Christ." This is what Christ did for us, he saved us. (MY NOTE: This helps me so for those who also believe, I am including it here but by no means want to turn anyone off by this religious reference. Please take what you like and leave the rest). This is being responsible "to." (Then he goes into talking about Galatians verse 5, which says that "each one should carry his own load.") Everyone has responsibilities that only he or she can carry. These things are our own particular "load" that we need to take daily responsibility for and work out. We have to take ownership of certain aspects of life that are our own "load."
The Greek words for BURDEN and LOAD give us insight into the meaning of these texts. The Greek word for "burden" means "excess burdens," or burdens that are so heavy that they weigh us down. These burdens are like boulders. They can crush us. We shouldn't be expected to carry a boulder by ourselves. It would break our backs. We need help with the boulders-those times of crisis and tragedy in our lives.
In contrast, the Greek word for "load" means "cargo," or "the burden of daily toil." This word describes the everyday things we all need to do. These loads are like knapsacks, which are possible to carry. We are expected to carry our own. We are expected to deal with our own feelings, attitudes and behaviors, as well as the responsibilities God has given to each one of us, even though it takes effort.
Problems arise when people act as if their "boulders" are daily loads and refuse help, or as if their "daily loads" are boulders they shouldn't have to carry. The results of these two instances are either perpetual pain or irresponsibility. It is very important to determine what "me" is, where my boundary of responsibility is and where someone else's begins.
(He goes on to describe our skin as a primary physical boundary each of us has, and how a boundary can be thought of as a fence.) We need to keep things that will nurture us inside our fences, and keep things that will harm us outside. Boundaries help us keep the good in and the bad out. But boundaries are not walls, we need gates to let the good in and the bad out.
Often, when people are abused while growing up, they reverse the function of boundaries and keep the bad in and the good out. You can reverese the ways your boundaries work. You need fences that are strong enough to keep the bad out, and gates in those fences to let out the bad already in your soul and let in the good.
Victims of physical and sexual abuse often have a poor sense of boundaries. Early in life they were taught that their property did not really begin at their skin. Others could invade their property and do whatever they wanted. As a result they have difficulty establishing boundaries later in life.
Any confusion of responsibility and ownership in our lives is a problem of boundaries. The inability to set appropriate boundaries at appropriate times with the appropriate people can be very destructive.
When you take over another's responsibilities they are irresponsible and happy and you are responsible and miserable.
Boundaries define us. They define what is me and what is not me. A boundary shows me where I end and someone else begins, leading me to a sense of ownership.
We are responsible TO others and FOR ourselves. Many times, others have "burdens" that are too big to bear. They do not have enough strength, resources or knowledge to carry the load and they need help. Denying ourselves to do for others what they CANNOT do for themselves is showing the "sacrificial love of Christ." This is what Christ did for us, he saved us. (MY NOTE: This helps me so for those who also believe, I am including it here but by no means want to turn anyone off by this religious reference. Please take what you like and leave the rest). This is being responsible "to." (Then he goes into talking about Galatians verse 5, which says that "each one should carry his own load.") Everyone has responsibilities that only he or she can carry. These things are our own particular "load" that we need to take daily responsibility for and work out. We have to take ownership of certain aspects of life that are our own "load."
The Greek words for BURDEN and LOAD give us insight into the meaning of these texts. The Greek word for "burden" means "excess burdens," or burdens that are so heavy that they weigh us down. These burdens are like boulders. They can crush us. We shouldn't be expected to carry a boulder by ourselves. It would break our backs. We need help with the boulders-those times of crisis and tragedy in our lives.
In contrast, the Greek word for "load" means "cargo," or "the burden of daily toil." This word describes the everyday things we all need to do. These loads are like knapsacks, which are possible to carry. We are expected to carry our own. We are expected to deal with our own feelings, attitudes and behaviors, as well as the responsibilities God has given to each one of us, even though it takes effort.
Problems arise when people act as if their "boulders" are daily loads and refuse help, or as if their "daily loads" are boulders they shouldn't have to carry. The results of these two instances are either perpetual pain or irresponsibility. It is very important to determine what "me" is, where my boundary of responsibility is and where someone else's begins.
(He goes on to describe our skin as a primary physical boundary each of us has, and how a boundary can be thought of as a fence.) We need to keep things that will nurture us inside our fences, and keep things that will harm us outside. Boundaries help us keep the good in and the bad out. But boundaries are not walls, we need gates to let the good in and the bad out.
Often, when people are abused while growing up, they reverse the function of boundaries and keep the bad in and the good out. You can reverese the ways your boundaries work. You need fences that are strong enough to keep the bad out, and gates in those fences to let out the bad already in your soul and let in the good.
Victims of physical and sexual abuse often have a poor sense of boundaries. Early in life they were taught that their property did not really begin at their skin. Others could invade their property and do whatever they wanted. As a result they have difficulty establishing boundaries later in life.
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Boundaries are difficult for me personally.
Yes, I understand it as a concept, not giving someone what they want from me, just because they want it? But because I want to share it.
Now, somewhere I got the idea that if I shared the other person had to share.
My idea was that if everything was out in the open, then all problems can be discussed or as L2L said, share the burden. Not carry it for them.
Sigh......
Since it would involve emotions, I guess I want it all over quick, or decide quickly if this is worth working on or not.
That is what I want, but not what I got.
So, since I do not have what I want, it is time to drop what I got.
Yes, I understand it as a concept, not giving someone what they want from me, just because they want it? But because I want to share it.
Now, somewhere I got the idea that if I shared the other person had to share.
My idea was that if everything was out in the open, then all problems can be discussed or as L2L said, share the burden. Not carry it for them.
Sigh......
Since it would involve emotions, I guess I want it all over quick, or decide quickly if this is worth working on or not.
That is what I want, but not what I got.
So, since I do not have what I want, it is time to drop what I got.
To thine own self be true.
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I think the thing that struck me the most from that part of the book was how if you don't set appropriate boundaries, it can be destructive. I so understand that because of this last experience I had. I should have protected myself better. I shouldn't have allowed all that chaos into my life for so long. If I had just stood my ground and insisted that the person take care of themselves, instead of giving in because I wanted to "help" him get on his feet, I would have protected myself and not become so overwhelmed by all of his problems, which he had constantly. But I do know that he was in a time of crisis and struggling to manage. It was a true burden. So, at least I know in my heart that I did the right thing. The problem was, the burdens were too much for me to handle, too. The load became so heavy that I could not even address my own problems, and my life became unmanageable. So, here I am at square one again.
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This post really resonated with me. As a victim of sexual and physical abuse from a young age, I have no boundaries. In fact, even when people do things to me that I am uncomfortable with, I almost talk to myself into just letting them do it anyway. My relationships have mostly been abusive, mostly sexual, some physical and I feel like a failure if I cannot make them work. I don't trust anyone, and yet tell people whatever they want to (and don't want to) know. I am an open book and constantly ashamed of my past. My parents were physically abusive and in many ways encouraged a lot of the abuse from my boyfriends. My mother was constantly telling me that even if I didn't want to have sex with my boyfriend, I should just do it anyway because that's what a relationship is. Even when I had told her the extent of some of the abuse from some of my partners, she brushed it off. Even in this instance, with my axbf, she has told me that I should date him but just not live with him.
Everything bad seems normal. I don't seem to function in a normal world and I attract all this drama and chaos. I feel like I am a victim of my own creation. Someone once said to me (in a scathing way) that I must love drama because of the rape and abuse I had been subjected to.
How do I rebuild? How do you erect boundaries if you don't even know what they look like? How do you learn to love yourself enough that you don't feel like you deserve all the pain and suffering. I live in constant anguish and allow others to define me. I do not know who I am, I only know who I am in the presence of others.
I feel I know the answer - that it will take time, it will take patience and it will take understanding of my own limitations. But most of all, it will take forgiveness and love. How do I get there?
I know that I tend to keep asking questions but there is so much pain pouring out of me as though pandora's box has been opened and all the darkness and pain from my life is consuming me. I feel like I am drowning.
Everything bad seems normal. I don't seem to function in a normal world and I attract all this drama and chaos. I feel like I am a victim of my own creation. Someone once said to me (in a scathing way) that I must love drama because of the rape and abuse I had been subjected to.
How do I rebuild? How do you erect boundaries if you don't even know what they look like? How do you learn to love yourself enough that you don't feel like you deserve all the pain and suffering. I live in constant anguish and allow others to define me. I do not know who I am, I only know who I am in the presence of others.
I feel I know the answer - that it will take time, it will take patience and it will take understanding of my own limitations. But most of all, it will take forgiveness and love. How do I get there?
I know that I tend to keep asking questions but there is so much pain pouring out of me as though pandora's box has been opened and all the darkness and pain from my life is consuming me. I feel like I am drowning.
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The load became so heavy that I could not even address my own problems, and my life became unmanageable. So, here I am at square one again.
I do not know who I am, I only know who I am in the presence of others.
But, I get this statement so much.
Let it out Jaded. It's the only way. When I finally said out loud "I am an alcoholic" I felt
the burden fall away. Lightweight. But it seems now, I find other boulders to carry.
We deserve a light weight and light in our lives. We will get there, because we have the first A.
Awareness.
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L2L,
Please don't "should" all over yourself. (This from some other self help book).
Should implies you could have known better, we know that we cannot do better until we know better. You could not know better.
I am glad you are here, you make me think.
I have new boundary books, but the recent Awareness about the state of my non-relationship, has made me less than motivated.
Beth
Please don't "should" all over yourself. (This from some other self help book).
Should implies you could have known better, we know that we cannot do better until we know better. You could not know better.
I am glad you are here, you make me think.
I have new boundary books, but the recent Awareness about the state of my non-relationship, has made me less than motivated.
Beth
To thine own self be true.
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Jad3d, Al-Anon is a really good place to start. You and I have some similar backgrounds and issues. <3 You can learn. If I can do it, so can you. All you have to do is want it.
To thine own self be true.
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My boundaries are my business, no one else's. It is my responsibility to establish and maintain healthy boundaries with others. Some people will not respect my boundaries and it is up to me to change my behavior so that I do not allow those kind of people in. I am not a victim.
To thine own self be true.
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My boundaries include the environment in which I choose to live. This includes my home. My home became my refuge, a place of peace and serenity. Whatever was brought here, and whomever came here, was my choice. It is my responsibility to only allow into my home those people and things that are healthy for me. If I choose to allow dysfunction, confusion, chaos, and indecisiveness into my home, that is how I will become: dysfuntional, confused, chaotic, and indecisive. And that is what I have become. I am working toward removing these things from my home, my life, and my self. I can do this without judgment. I choose health.
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I really struggle with boundaries.
For me that has meant conditional love with unconditional commitment. That should be the other way around. I've done lots of reading and was able to establish boundaries that were great big walls ( which is something! ) but don't know that I can fine tune them to embark on new healthy relationships. Probably not
Thank you for the good thread.
For me that has meant conditional love with unconditional commitment. That should be the other way around. I've done lots of reading and was able to establish boundaries that were great big walls ( which is something! ) but don't know that I can fine tune them to embark on new healthy relationships. Probably not
Thank you for the good thread.
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I am working toward removing these things from my home, my life, and my self. I can do this without judgment. I choose health.
"If you want to have a life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.
My goal is my home. There ya go.
Beth
To thine own self be true.
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Thanks for the share, Thumper. I also have built walls as boundaries. I tend to retreat from others and stay by myself. I don't know why I am this way. I think I have been hurt so many times and so severely that I just don't trust people. I invest so much, emotionally, in my relationships it's like I am always setting myself up for hurt.
I am sure you can fine-tune your wall-boundaries to be more healthy. It will take some work but you just have to find the right source of information to help you. And sometimes it just takes more time and more experience with life to finally figure out what it is you need. At least that is how I am looking at myself.
I am sure you can fine-tune your wall-boundaries to be more healthy. It will take some work but you just have to find the right source of information to help you. And sometimes it just takes more time and more experience with life to finally figure out what it is you need. At least that is how I am looking at myself.
To thine own self be true.
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Another person's drug, alcohol or other addiction problems are not my own. Another person's mental illness or other dysfunctional mental condition problems are not MY responsibility. Another person's inability or refusal to work, or inability to get and maintain transportation are not MY problems. What another person chooses to do or not do to address their problems is not MINE to own. I can SUGGEST to the person what they can do to solve their problems but once I find I have had to say it more than once, I have become enmeshed in that person's problems. Or should I say, that person's problems have become enmeshed in my thinking and my life?
Everyone has their own load that THEY must bear. My load is heavy enough for me but I do not take on more load than I can handle and if I do, I get help. I either ask someone to help me or I pay someone to help me. Sometimes I have to release or remove whatever is causing me too much distress. My house, my car, my cleaning, my job, my food, my family, THESE are MY responsibilities. I LIKE my responsibilities. I like to take care of my responsibilities and I don't like for someone to take them over. My responsibilities give me motivation in life.
Some people take over YOUR responsibilities in trade. If they take some of the load from you, you will take some of their load for them. I don't think this is healthy. I think what is healthy is to SHARE the load. Together. Sometimes you feel forced to take someone else's load because they are unable to handle it for some reason, and you see something or someone being neglected and you want to take care. Like the way I used to take care of my brother's dog because he lived with me and every day I would watch as the poor dog was neglected. The dog had to PEE in the morning and my brother would not get up to let him out. So, every morning I would walk the dog. It was not MY dog. I did not WANT a dog. But I walked the dog and I grew to resent my brother for being so lazy. I judged my brother and reacted in anger and that distorted my perceptions. I became so reactive that I could not see the sickness that was my brother. My Reaction continued in that I tried to teach my brother a lesson. And in doing so, the result was that I hurt only myself.
Everyone has their own load that THEY must bear. My load is heavy enough for me but I do not take on more load than I can handle and if I do, I get help. I either ask someone to help me or I pay someone to help me. Sometimes I have to release or remove whatever is causing me too much distress. My house, my car, my cleaning, my job, my food, my family, THESE are MY responsibilities. I LIKE my responsibilities. I like to take care of my responsibilities and I don't like for someone to take them over. My responsibilities give me motivation in life.
Some people take over YOUR responsibilities in trade. If they take some of the load from you, you will take some of their load for them. I don't think this is healthy. I think what is healthy is to SHARE the load. Together. Sometimes you feel forced to take someone else's load because they are unable to handle it for some reason, and you see something or someone being neglected and you want to take care. Like the way I used to take care of my brother's dog because he lived with me and every day I would watch as the poor dog was neglected. The dog had to PEE in the morning and my brother would not get up to let him out. So, every morning I would walk the dog. It was not MY dog. I did not WANT a dog. But I walked the dog and I grew to resent my brother for being so lazy. I judged my brother and reacted in anger and that distorted my perceptions. I became so reactive that I could not see the sickness that was my brother. My Reaction continued in that I tried to teach my brother a lesson. And in doing so, the result was that I hurt only myself.
To thine own self be true.
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Boundaries, Cloud & Townsend
page 34
You can create protective fences with words. The most basic boundary-setting word is "no." It lets others know that you exist apart from them and that you are in control of you. Being clear about your no -and your yes- is a theme that runs throughout the Bible. "No" is a confontational word. The Bible says that we are to confont people we love, saying, "No, that behavior is not okay. I will not participate in that." The word "no" is also important in setting limits on abuse. Many passages in Scripture urge us to say no to others' sinful treatment of us.
The Bible also warns us against giving to others "reluctantly or under compulsion." People with poor boundaries struggle with saying no to the control, pressure, demands, and sometimes the real needs of others. They feel that if they say no to someone, they will endanger their relationship with that person, so they passively comply but inwardly resent (sounds like me). Sometimes a person is pressuring you to do something; other times the pressure comes from your own sense of what you "should" do. If you cannot say no to this external or internal pressure, you have lost control of your property and are not enjoying the fruit of "self-control."
Your words also define your property for others as you commmunicate your feelings, intentions, or dislikes. It is difficult for people to know where you stand when you do not use words to define your property. God does this when he says, "I like this and I hate that." Or, "I will do this, and I will not do that." Your words let people know where you stand and thus give them a sense of the "edges" that help identify you. "I don't like when you yell at me!" gives people a clear message about how you conduct relationships and lets them know the "rules" or your yard.
page 41
People with boundary problems usually have distorted attitudes about responsibility. They feel that to hold people responsible for their feelings, choices, and behaviors is mean. However, Proverbs repeatedly says that setting limits and accepting responsibility will save lives.
Behaviors have consequences. As Paul says, "A man reaps what he sows." There are natural consequences of our behavior. The problems comes when someone interrupts the law of sowing and reaping in another's life. A person's drinking or abuse SHOULD have consequences for the drinker or the abuser. To rescue people from the natural consequences of their behavior is to render them powerless.
page 34
You can create protective fences with words. The most basic boundary-setting word is "no." It lets others know that you exist apart from them and that you are in control of you. Being clear about your no -and your yes- is a theme that runs throughout the Bible. "No" is a confontational word. The Bible says that we are to confont people we love, saying, "No, that behavior is not okay. I will not participate in that." The word "no" is also important in setting limits on abuse. Many passages in Scripture urge us to say no to others' sinful treatment of us.
The Bible also warns us against giving to others "reluctantly or under compulsion." People with poor boundaries struggle with saying no to the control, pressure, demands, and sometimes the real needs of others. They feel that if they say no to someone, they will endanger their relationship with that person, so they passively comply but inwardly resent (sounds like me). Sometimes a person is pressuring you to do something; other times the pressure comes from your own sense of what you "should" do. If you cannot say no to this external or internal pressure, you have lost control of your property and are not enjoying the fruit of "self-control."
Your words also define your property for others as you commmunicate your feelings, intentions, or dislikes. It is difficult for people to know where you stand when you do not use words to define your property. God does this when he says, "I like this and I hate that." Or, "I will do this, and I will not do that." Your words let people know where you stand and thus give them a sense of the "edges" that help identify you. "I don't like when you yell at me!" gives people a clear message about how you conduct relationships and lets them know the "rules" or your yard.
page 41
People with boundary problems usually have distorted attitudes about responsibility. They feel that to hold people responsible for their feelings, choices, and behaviors is mean. However, Proverbs repeatedly says that setting limits and accepting responsibility will save lives.
Behaviors have consequences. As Paul says, "A man reaps what he sows." There are natural consequences of our behavior. The problems comes when someone interrupts the law of sowing and reaping in another's life. A person's drinking or abuse SHOULD have consequences for the drinker or the abuser. To rescue people from the natural consequences of their behavior is to render them powerless.
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This really helps me:
I grew up in a family where boulders are daily loads. You never, ever, ever, ask for help. You suck it up and do it. And don't whine about it. We don't have the luxury to cry. We don't have the luxury to get depressed. We don't have the luxury to pay attention to something as useless as feelings.
And then I met AXH. Who acts as if his daily loads are not something he should have to carry.
Talk about a marriage made in hell.
Problems arise when people act as if their "boulders" are daily loads and refuse help, or as if their "daily loads" are boulders they shouldn't have to carry.
And then I met AXH. Who acts as if his daily loads are not something he should have to carry.
Talk about a marriage made in hell.
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Originally Posted by lillamy 
Talk about a marriage made in hell.
Now, my stbx, through recovery, is learning to set boundaries. Kind of like learning to speak a new and very complex language. It takes a lot of time and a lot of mistakes, and I find that redefining my boundaries happens regularly so keep an open mind.
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Thank youso much for this post, L2L. I have been struggling with my breakup, and have gone so far as to allow my ABF, who vows to recover, to stay in the house. I realize now that I am feeling guilt over trying to set boundaries that would actually serve to protect me. I'm also struggling with God's perspective on all of this (am I meant to help him?) but it sounds like the scriptures support us maintaining our mental well-being, rather than sacrificing who we are.
To thine own self be true.
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I really liked how the authors of this book give scriptural support to NOT enabling. It seems so many spouses, and SO's, feel it is their duty to continue to support their A spouses.
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