NewRoad

Hi, please clarify something for me if you can. My STBXAH has just come back from his first counselling session. He was pleased to inform me that he is not an alcoholic. The counseller told him he has 12 years experience of alcoholism and can categorically say that he is not alcohol dependent but that he should try cutting down on his drinking. I told him I still feel like he definitely is an alcoholic and AH said how would i know? I told him I lived with it for the last 17 years and cannot remember an event we Attended where he wasn't staggering drunk, that I know he drinks six cans of beer (at least) every night, that I know he has woken up with vomit, urine etc On his clothes and cannot remember how he got home. Etc etc etc... I thought an alcoholic was someone whose drinking affected those he loved and who loved him. Am I losing my mind? He says he was completely honest with the therapist who has also suggested that we as a couple get to the bottom of why I am really leaving him. On that note, AH HAS left the house and gone to meet his friends in the pub!!What a joke. My house purchase completes next week, can't wait to be out of this denial. everyday I feel stronger, if the definition of Alcoholic has changed, I'm still leaving this weak pathetic waster. What
do you think about this therapist? Why am I even bothered!?

wellnowwhat

I think it doesn't really matter whether the therapist or your STBXAH declare him alcoholic. You have been affected negatively by his drinking and that's enough.

FWIW, I would doubt what STBXAH said to the therapist, what the therapist supposedly said to STBXAH, and what STBXAH reported back to you. He has a vested interest in not making any changes.

Good luck on your move.

alia

He is an alcoholic - your AH could have given his therapist a different, more subtle version of the story. He may still be feeling so much shame that he cannot come clean about his problem. You are NOT crazy. He fits the profile.

Any legitimate therapist would have diagnosed him quite easily given the full story - thats what leads me to think maybe your AH wasn't completely truthful. He may have told you he is, but it takes a lot for an alcoholic to admit to all their shameful acts.

NewRoad

Also just heard from. Y 14 yr old son that AH said to him that although he promised to give up drinking, he now feels like he doesn't need to. He asked him to imagine me telling him he couldn't play his Xbox anymore... He would really want to play it still and would not understand why i would want him not to. Cant believe he is trying to relate his addiction to the fact that my son plays his Xbox. My son told him he that he didn't care what he did anymore, and that he is a lying arse. Out the mouth of babes. The packing continues..

suki44883

I don't believe for one minute that any reputable counselor would say something like that after only one hour, or however long an appointment lasts. I believe your husband is lying, but, as you say, it doesn't really matter. You are proceeding with your plan to get yourself and your son away from that chaos, so good on you! :ghug3

lizatola

One thing I've noticed about my AH is that he is selective in what he tells me about his counseling sessions or meetings with lawyers, etc. He seems to have a skewed sense of hearing, as well, and the information gets twisted upon entering his brain. I usually don't believe what I hear out of his mouth anymore when it comes to therapist's or his drinking. You know what you know and you are affected by his drinking and it sounds like your son is, too. You're doing great! Thanks for sharing today!

miamifella

What sort of "counselor" is this? As has been said above, it is highly unlikely that any licensed social worker or clinical psychologist (or anyone with common sense for that matter) would make such a pronouncement after just one session.

Your STBXAH clearly fits DSM criteria for alcohol dependence (alcoholism) which is the industry standard for diagnosis. An individual therapist's "experience" is NOT the standard. Period!

tomsteve

there is the probabilty the he, like i used to do, manipulated what was really said to keep the reality of what was really said unreal.

PeacefulMe

I would be willing to bet a large sum of money that the therapist did not say what your husband said he/she did. A's hear what they want to hear and then put their own spin on it. After I left my AH in September I started individual counseling and was hoping to have joint counseling. I chose a therapist with a certification in addictions. He told me up front that he would not be able to counsel my AH unless he was in recovery. I did manage to get AH to have one session with the counselor anyway, just wanting them to meet and see if AH would commit. When I asked AH about the session he told me that counselor said he "didn't need counseling". When I told the counselor that at my next visit (same counselor) he just shook his head in disbelief. (He did maintain confidentiality and could not tell me anything about the visit itself or even whether AH had shown up but I already knew that). What I am sure happened is that counselor likely said he didn't need to see him if he was drinking...............and AH heard what he wanted to hear or at least told me 'his' version of it.

sugarbear1

12 years of what?

Alcoholism has little to do with being physically dependent on alcohol. Alcoholism means alcohol is our (I'm a RA) solution.

The ONLY person who can determine alcoholism is the alcoholic themselves.

This counselor said your STBXAH (not sure what this means) is not physically dependent on alcohol. This does NOT mean he isn't an alcoholic. Once I stop drinking (my solution) life is horrible. I am horrible. I NEED a solution to the madness. or I drink again.

Seems like your STBXAH (what does this mean?) conveniently only remembered part of what was told to him, although those counselors and some doctors have no real idea what alcoholism truly is.

I wasn't physically addicted to alcohol. That didn't mean I was any less of an alcoholic. Although I didn't urinate on myself....

I am happy you are leaving. He needs no explanation or time to manipulate you any further.

Leave this behind, get some help for you so you don't find another man like this (we do that) and move on with your life.

Big hugs to you!

NewRoad

Sugar bear, STBXAH a shorter way of saying soon to be ex alcoholic husband.. Thanks for your words of wisdom xx

changeschoices

I wouldn't believe a word of what he said.

sugarbear1

Thanks! LOL!!

miamifella

Just to clarify, sugarbear is not exactly right. Alcoholism/Alcohol Dependence is NOT necessarily diagnosed by a physical dependence. While a physical dependence is included in the the first three criteria, criteria four through seven are NOT based on physical dependence--and the subject only has to meet three of criteria to be diagnosed.

FYI, this is the DSM criteria, which any legitimate counselor would use. (Note: the term Alcohol Dependence is used--but it is what in lay terms is called Alcoholism):

DSM-IV Diagnostic Criteria for Alcohol Dependence

A maladaptive pattern of alcohol use, leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as manifested by three or more of the following seven criteria, occurring at any time in the same 12-month period:

1. Tolerance, as defined by either of the following:

a) A need for markedly increased amounts of alcohol to achieve intoxication or desired effect.

b) Markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of alcohol.

2. Withdrawal, as defined by either of the following:

a) The characteristic withdrawal syndrome for alcohol (refer to DSM-IV for further details).

b) Alcohol is taken to relieve or avoid withdrawal symptoms.

3. Alcohol is often taken in larger amounts or over a longer period than was intended.

4. There is a persistent desire or there are unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control alcohol use.

5. A great deal of time is spent in activities necessary to obtain alcohol, use alcohol or recover from its effects.

6. Important social, occupational, or recreational activities are given up or reduced because of alcohol use.

7. Alcohol use is continued despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been caused or exacerbated by the alcohol (e.g., continued drinking despite recognition that an ulcer was made worse by alcohol consumption).

SoaringSpirits

Classic alcoholic manipulation. You are right, it doesn't really matter how much or how often your husband drinks --- if you are being negatively affected by it, then it's a problem. Your AH probably told the counselor something very different than the truth.

Keep packing and enjoy getting free of this jerk. You and your kids deserve so much better.

sugarbear1

I spoke from the viewpoint of a person with alcoholism.

So, maybe your STBXAH was correct in quoting that counselor after all, according to the DSM definition.

I was not physically dependent. I AM an alcoholic. According to that list, I have ONE of those non-physically dependent criteria as listed. I guess a counselor, who does not understand alcoholism first hand, would say I wasn't an alcoholic, either.

I am STILL an alcoholic.

Thanks for the DSM definition! They are currently considering adding "binge drinkers" to the DSM V. Binge drinkers or Periodic Drinkers have been attending AA and other programs for over 177 years now!

This shows that only one alcoholic can help another alcoholic like no medical professional could! Cool!

tbeit

The ONLY person who can determine alcoholism is the alcoholic themselves.

I agree with sugarbear on this I AM an addict/alcholic but had a therapits who I went to for more then a year also tell me I dont fit the criteria. I laughed and said you dont live in my head. I suggest a new shrink.

akrasia

I believe he was lying. Probably to you, and to her.

Why get hung up on the diagnosis though? His behavior when he drinks is way too much to have to deal with, and you're fed up with it. Really that's all that matters, from your end.

miamifella

Much as I like sugarbear, I gotta say again if you just look at what was reported here the husband IS most definitely alcohol dependent according to the DSM definition. He meets criteria 4, 6, and 7 (and probably a few others), so any therapist would be obligated to diagnose him as an alcoholic.

I do not think the diagnosis really matters here--except as pretty clear proof that the husband has got to be lying about what was said.

SoloMio

New Road, there are counselors and there are counselors. My AH, right before he relapsed, got "permission" to have a glass of wine or so from his "counselor"/guru, who told him I was controlling him. My brother, who lived with alcoholism until he was 17 and broke away, told me that I am a "bad governor" of AH's drinking.

What difference does a label make? If he is putting alcohol before his own better interests and yours, who cares if it's a rose or a thorn?

If people have not lived with it (i.e. my husband's enlightened guru) or even if they have (my brother), they are in no position to tell you what YOU are experiencing.

I personally find it revolting to wake up with vomit and urine in the bed due to my husband's drinking and no one should have to put up with it.