Cunning and baffling is right...
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Cunning and baffling is right...
I never cease to be amazed at the warped thinking of alcoholics.
Here's the crap I got this weekend, while trying to finish dissolution paperwork:
"Any other criticism you believe you are hearing or have heard from me is coming directly out of your own mind."
Really?! Huh. That is a great discounting and dismissive way of looking at my feelings. Would be nice to at least be acknowledged as a person.
"I asked God for an answer. God gave me an answer. God calls on me to be free. It is only I who can keep myself in bondage, whether that be to drugs, alcohol, or a marriage that doesn't really exist and won't move forward or back."
This sounds great, except the context is way off. Therein lies the problem. He's not in bondage with me. We don't even live together anymore. And the marriage doesn't really exist because he has yet to engage in this family and take responsibility like a husband should. And you know what, folks? Not once has he even ASKED me to move in with him again. No enthusiasm or excitement about what our life together could be like. Just demands, demands, demands. It is really that hard to understand the demands, discounts, and stinkin thinkin ARE NOT SEXY?
"For the sake of clarity, this is the reason I am seeking a divorce: I see in your behavior an ongoing lack of willingness to live together with me as a married couple or work together towards that end."
He's right here - I have an ongoing unwillingness to live with an a$$hole. Who's idea of "working" at anything means doing it his way, on his terms, which by the way, don't apply to him. I am choking on hypocrisy this morning.
He conveniently skipped over the parts about how alcoholism affected our family and how we are trying to heal from that crazy train-ride. No mention of what I need in my own recovery, either. He never even asked....
And then the finale:
"We are not having an argument. Disagreement no longer matters. All that need be said is done. Hope you can one day find peace and clarity".
Who the heck is this guy to assume I don't have peace and clarity? What a terribly arrogant and condescending assumption to make and say out loud. And this kind of stuff gets said whenever I disagree with anything he says, or try to explain my side of the coin , or express my feelings toward something. We weren't having an argument. He just didn't like what I was saying.
Talk about needing to take the stuffing out of your ears and stick it in your mouth.
I had to go talk a long walk after this exchange to find the air to breath after being completely smothered by his massive ego. It just sucks the air out of my life.
So you see, SR friends, even "sobriety" doesn't mean we end up with the amazing person we thought we fell in love with. I don't even recognize that man in him anymore. I have no idea if I got conned and that man was a complete fabrication, or if it was my own magical thinking, but I can not see that amazingly kind, attentive, intelligent, interesting man I fell in love with anymore. He's gone.
Just needed to vent this am - and I can safely say I feel good that as I work through the loss of my dream of a marriage and family, he continues to validate the reasons why I don't like him anymore and don't want him to be in my life in any way shape, or form. I thank my HP for another lesson, albeit brief and small, as to what my true path really is.
Peace,
~T
PS: TC999 posted on a thread a book that I read this weekend and LOVED! The Grief Club by Melody Beattie. So helpful and reassuring, I highly recommend it. Am working on the activities this week to help me stay focused. Thanks TC! ; )
Here's the crap I got this weekend, while trying to finish dissolution paperwork:
"Any other criticism you believe you are hearing or have heard from me is coming directly out of your own mind."
Really?! Huh. That is a great discounting and dismissive way of looking at my feelings. Would be nice to at least be acknowledged as a person.
"I asked God for an answer. God gave me an answer. God calls on me to be free. It is only I who can keep myself in bondage, whether that be to drugs, alcohol, or a marriage that doesn't really exist and won't move forward or back."
This sounds great, except the context is way off. Therein lies the problem. He's not in bondage with me. We don't even live together anymore. And the marriage doesn't really exist because he has yet to engage in this family and take responsibility like a husband should. And you know what, folks? Not once has he even ASKED me to move in with him again. No enthusiasm or excitement about what our life together could be like. Just demands, demands, demands. It is really that hard to understand the demands, discounts, and stinkin thinkin ARE NOT SEXY?
"For the sake of clarity, this is the reason I am seeking a divorce: I see in your behavior an ongoing lack of willingness to live together with me as a married couple or work together towards that end."
He's right here - I have an ongoing unwillingness to live with an a$$hole. Who's idea of "working" at anything means doing it his way, on his terms, which by the way, don't apply to him. I am choking on hypocrisy this morning.
He conveniently skipped over the parts about how alcoholism affected our family and how we are trying to heal from that crazy train-ride. No mention of what I need in my own recovery, either. He never even asked....
And then the finale:
"We are not having an argument. Disagreement no longer matters. All that need be said is done. Hope you can one day find peace and clarity".
Who the heck is this guy to assume I don't have peace and clarity? What a terribly arrogant and condescending assumption to make and say out loud. And this kind of stuff gets said whenever I disagree with anything he says, or try to explain my side of the coin , or express my feelings toward something. We weren't having an argument. He just didn't like what I was saying.
Talk about needing to take the stuffing out of your ears and stick it in your mouth.
I had to go talk a long walk after this exchange to find the air to breath after being completely smothered by his massive ego. It just sucks the air out of my life.
So you see, SR friends, even "sobriety" doesn't mean we end up with the amazing person we thought we fell in love with. I don't even recognize that man in him anymore. I have no idea if I got conned and that man was a complete fabrication, or if it was my own magical thinking, but I can not see that amazingly kind, attentive, intelligent, interesting man I fell in love with anymore. He's gone.
Just needed to vent this am - and I can safely say I feel good that as I work through the loss of my dream of a marriage and family, he continues to validate the reasons why I don't like him anymore and don't want him to be in my life in any way shape, or form. I thank my HP for another lesson, albeit brief and small, as to what my true path really is.
Peace,
~T
PS: TC999 posted on a thread a book that I read this weekend and LOVED! The Grief Club by Melody Beattie. So helpful and reassuring, I highly recommend it. Am working on the activities this week to help me stay focused. Thanks TC! ; )
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Quack quack quack is what I read in your AH's words. But as I read them I felt my shoulders tense and my pulse quicken because that sanctimonious, quacking nonsense that they spew at us is/can be so infuriating no matter how much we "know" that it's nonsense.
Good for you for taking the long walk and not taking his bait. And perhaps there's some satisfaction in knowing that at the end of the day, regardless of what he says or how much he blames, when you lay down to sleep you have a clear head and conscience and I doubt the same can be said of him.
Lately when I hear quacking from stbxAH I try like mad to picture him alone with his own thoughts and imagine that it must be awfully hard to be him and be so full of fear, anger, resentment, shame even that he has to spend all his energy blaming the world for his issues. Sure it sucks to hear the nonsense he quacks at me, but I imagine it sucks a lot more to be in his head when there's no one left to quack at.
I bet your AH is scared to death of being completely alone and not having the ability to deflect his issues onto you so he's trying to get it all out before things are dissolved completely between you and there's less reason for him to attempt to talk to you...
You're really strong and doing really well it sounds to me in dealing with someone who is trying his best to push your buttons.
Good for you for taking the long walk and not taking his bait. And perhaps there's some satisfaction in knowing that at the end of the day, regardless of what he says or how much he blames, when you lay down to sleep you have a clear head and conscience and I doubt the same can be said of him.
Lately when I hear quacking from stbxAH I try like mad to picture him alone with his own thoughts and imagine that it must be awfully hard to be him and be so full of fear, anger, resentment, shame even that he has to spend all his energy blaming the world for his issues. Sure it sucks to hear the nonsense he quacks at me, but I imagine it sucks a lot more to be in his head when there's no one left to quack at.
I bet your AH is scared to death of being completely alone and not having the ability to deflect his issues onto you so he's trying to get it all out before things are dissolved completely between you and there's less reason for him to attempt to talk to you...
You're really strong and doing really well it sounds to me in dealing with someone who is trying his best to push your buttons.
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Thanks WTBH. It's been a hell of a ride, eh?
I love my life now. So peaceful and calm and pleasant. Took my girls shopping on Saturday and they told me they like me so much better now. And that was before I paid for their new clothes! ; )
I love my life now. So peaceful and calm and pleasant. Took my girls shopping on Saturday and they told me they like me so much better now. And that was before I paid for their new clothes! ; )
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Your post is so helpful and so vital for many of us here to read. Thank you. The details of what he wrote are very very helpful, as that kind of righteous arrogance and mind-game is so common.
If you actually had decided to argue with him, and defend yourself, it would have given him a rush. They love to bait us.
If you actually had decided to argue with him, and defend yourself, it would have given him a rush. They love to bait us.
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Originally Posted by EnglishGarden 
Your post is so helpful and so vital for many of us here to read. Thank you. The details of what he wrote are very very helpful, as that kind of righteous arrogance and mind-game is so common.
If you actually had decided to argue with him, and defend yourself, it would have given him a rush. They love to bait us.
If you actually had decided to argue with him, and defend yourself, it would have given him a rush. They love to bait us.
I said my peace. Time to move on. I have a life to go live, right?!!!
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Join Date: May 2006
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((TG))
Great job on having on your quack hearing filter !!
Take good care of YOU & enjoy the freedom to think & Feel exactly what you need to without anyone telling you what those feelings should or have to be ~
PINK HUGS!!
Rita
Great job on having on your quack hearing filter !!
Take good care of YOU & enjoy the freedom to think & Feel exactly what you need to without anyone telling you what those feelings should or have to be ~
PINK HUGS!!
Rita
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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Hi T- your post brought back a lot of bad memories of a marriage to a very controlling person, when I finally left I didnt even know who I was. Its taken a while to find my part in it, glad I am seeing clearer now. (whats that smell? Oh, I stepped in the sh*t again!) Thats quite a rat cage of "recovery" he's got goin' there. I wish him good luck with all that - but, with my blinders of my own recovery on - I can't be bothered to look over there anymore. Keep keepin', T!
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Isn't it funny how many of our AX's become the Buddha when we end the relationship? So calm, so full of insight and wisdom...while making us out to be the hysterical crazy ones. Blah. Whatever. I am thinking I should get the words "Do Not Engage!" tattooed on my hand or something so I never forget the insanity of dealing with these Wise Ones.
When they are backed into a corner and know you won't take their excuses anymore, they do the only thing they can to save face: pretend like they're doing wonderfully.
(Except, you know, when like last week, my AX sent me a deranged rant about how horrible his life is since we broke up. Duh. Told you so!)
When they are backed into a corner and know you won't take their excuses anymore, they do the only thing they can to save face: pretend like they're doing wonderfully.
(Except, you know, when like last week, my AX sent me a deranged rant about how horrible his life is since we broke up. Duh. Told you so!)
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Isn't it funny how many of our AX's become the Buddha when we end the relationship? So calm, so full of insight and wisdom...while making us out to be the hysterical crazy ones. Blah. Whatever.
I really am living this right now.
And I really resonate with your post, Tuffgirl.
I am right there with you.
I really am living this right now.
And I really resonate with your post, Tuffgirl.
I am right there with you.
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Originally Posted by PurpleSquirrel
Tuffgirl, I just love how you took his whole arguement and sliced it, diced it and showed it for the crap it was. Awesome!
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Hey there TG, and good on you !!!
I think the most telling part of all you have written here is what your daughters said. Children can see what even the most experienced shrink will miss. They like you better this way, and not just a little better, "so much" better. That right there sums up it all up.
Mike
I think the most telling part of all you have written here is what your daughters said. Children can see what even the most experienced shrink will miss. They like you better this way, and not just a little better, "so much" better. That right there sums up it all up.
Mike
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Thanks for saying that, Mike. It meant a lot to hear it from them this weekend, and it helps that you highlighted it in the post. Something to keep top of mind, that's for sure!
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Tuffgirl, thanks so much for the post.
Wow, he had it all going on, even the God deal.
You are awesome, so glad you got to take the girls shopping and you guys had some love going on. Sounds like they have clarity about who you are.
you inspire me. thanks Katie xo
Wow, he had it all going on, even the God deal.
You are awesome, so glad you got to take the girls shopping and you guys had some love going on. Sounds like they have clarity about who you are.
you inspire me. thanks Katie xo
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WOW...thanks for posting. I would say I relate directly to maybe one percent of the posts on here and this is one of them.
I am currently going through the same/similar thing. My AH has been acting like yours in that I related to all that you wrote. This weekend I prayed for some sort of sign that there is no reconciling between us (since he has made little to no effort towards this and we've been apart over one year [I left]). The answer came the same day when we pulled up alongside AH who was taking our oldest daughter out for her birthday (this was a big coincidence in itself as I did know the City/restaurant they would be at, but I was told they were to be there earlier that day. We were not near the restaurant either but just entering the City from the same road he was on. Further, I had no intention of being in that area except that middle daughter asked if we could clothes shop spur of the moment, and I agreed to that (she picked where). On a side note, I had thought it unfortunate and felt sad for my teens that AH didn't include them in the birthday meal with their older sister but didn't give that much further thought at the time. I realized the bigger picture though when I saw AH's girlfriend (who I knew about through the grapevine) in his car. I hadn't quite thought of it as an answer to prayer, but I believe God was working through my daughter (helping me to connect the dots) when she said, "mom, do you think God is trying to tell you something?" This coming from a 17 year old who rarely, if ever, mentions God. It was then that I recalled my morning prayer and put 2 and 2 together (seems I've always been slow in that area).
Tonight I was hoping for someone on here that I could relate with in this same regard...and here you are. I think God is wanting me to accept my sad/unfortunate situation as it is (despite 27 years of marriage). I've just been given 2 coincidences to my recent prayer regarding AH that I think I'd be foolish not to see as God incidences. Thanks again for posting.
I am currently going through the same/similar thing. My AH has been acting like yours in that I related to all that you wrote. This weekend I prayed for some sort of sign that there is no reconciling between us (since he has made little to no effort towards this and we've been apart over one year [I left]). The answer came the same day when we pulled up alongside AH who was taking our oldest daughter out for her birthday (this was a big coincidence in itself as I did know the City/restaurant they would be at, but I was told they were to be there earlier that day. We were not near the restaurant either but just entering the City from the same road he was on. Further, I had no intention of being in that area except that middle daughter asked if we could clothes shop spur of the moment, and I agreed to that (she picked where). On a side note, I had thought it unfortunate and felt sad for my teens that AH didn't include them in the birthday meal with their older sister but didn't give that much further thought at the time. I realized the bigger picture though when I saw AH's girlfriend (who I knew about through the grapevine) in his car. I hadn't quite thought of it as an answer to prayer, but I believe God was working through my daughter (helping me to connect the dots) when she said, "mom, do you think God is trying to tell you something?" This coming from a 17 year old who rarely, if ever, mentions God. It was then that I recalled my morning prayer and put 2 and 2 together (seems I've always been slow in that area).
Tonight I was hoping for someone on here that I could relate with in this same regard...and here you are. I think God is wanting me to accept my sad/unfortunate situation as it is (despite 27 years of marriage). I've just been given 2 coincidences to my recent prayer regarding AH that I think I'd be foolish not to see as God incidences. Thanks again for posting.
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(((((TuffGirl)))))
I just wanted to give you more kudos for your strength and clarity despite the epic quacking of your A. I loved your comment about where the stuffing should go! Ha!
As much as it may be hard for you to believe, I want what you have. Not really the quacking A, but almost being done with it. I've been spared the quacking of my mostly X, maybe R, AH for the last few months primarily because I've been avoiding him. I am adept at ostrich avoidance behaviors. But, I know I'll have to interact with him at some point just to divorce him and I don't know how I can cope with that. It's so hard not to take the bait every time when they are clearly just spouting self-righteous nonsense. A few months ago, my AH sent me an email that started out with "in 2007, we vowed to always love and respect each other...". Then he continued to explain that I was not respecting him because I was avoiding his quackiness. If he had told that to my face I don't think I could have resisted telling him, 1) we took those vows in 2006! And 2) you don't really want to get into a discussion with me about love and respect! Ugh! I don't know how anyone could resist a comeback, honestly.
I'm impressed that you were able to see that your discussions were not being productive and that you could walk away from it. Many, many kudos. I can only hope to be able to do that too, when the time comes.
Thanks!
Fathom
I just wanted to give you more kudos for your strength and clarity despite the epic quacking of your A. I loved your comment about where the stuffing should go! Ha!
As much as it may be hard for you to believe, I want what you have. Not really the quacking A, but almost being done with it. I've been spared the quacking of my mostly X, maybe R, AH for the last few months primarily because I've been avoiding him. I am adept at ostrich avoidance behaviors. But, I know I'll have to interact with him at some point just to divorce him and I don't know how I can cope with that. It's so hard not to take the bait every time when they are clearly just spouting self-righteous nonsense. A few months ago, my AH sent me an email that started out with "in 2007, we vowed to always love and respect each other...". Then he continued to explain that I was not respecting him because I was avoiding his quackiness. If he had told that to my face I don't think I could have resisted telling him, 1) we took those vows in 2006! And 2) you don't really want to get into a discussion with me about love and respect! Ugh! I don't know how anyone could resist a comeback, honestly.
I'm impressed that you were able to see that your discussions were not being productive and that you could walk away from it. Many, many kudos. I can only hope to be able to do that too, when the time comes.
Thanks!
Fathom
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