Gaslighting and Addiction
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Gaslighting and Addiction
I am not a psychologist. But I do want to understand my own thinking. I ran across the term "Gaslighting" and i believe that it applies very strongly in the behavior patterns of addicts and those who love them.
The following is the best definition I could find on Gaslighting and it describes my AXH and my AS's behaviors quite well.
Gaslighting:
One psychological definition of gaslighting is “an increasing frequency of systematically withholding factual information from, and/or providing false information to, the victim – having the gradual effect of making them anxious, confused, and less able to trust their own memory and perception.”
Gaslighting is an insidious form of emotional abuse and manipulation that is difficult to recognize and even harder to break free from.
Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse or brainwashing where one individual attempts to get another individual to believe she is “crazy”. This is most often done through the denial of facts, events, or what one did or did not say. The gaslighter might also directly or indirectly imply that the individual is defective, crazy, or suffers from a mental illness…When this technique is used on someone, he or she may initially become frustrated that one is being told his or her memory or perceptions do not match reality. However, after a while, the individual begins to believe the gaslighter. He or she may start to believe that he or she is imagining things, has some kind of mental illness, or has a faulty memory. When one doubts his or her perceptions of reality, the gaslighter is able to control that person; he or she becomes completely dependent on the gaslighter for the “truth”.
Gas Lighting abuser will also use plain old “denial.” The victim is forced to ask herself if she should even try anything as a next step because he listened to her logical, understandable, completely answerable question and simply said “Nope. Not me. Didn’t do it.” The Gaslighting victim is also left to deal with the fact he knowingly denied this, and what else could possibly be unknown to her.
Overall, the victim starts to realize she needs to be careful when relying on her own perceptions of life.
Gaslighting is the systematic attempt by one person to erode another’s reality, by telling them that what they are experiencing isn’t so – and, the gradual giving up on the part of the other person. Gaslighting takes two – one person who needs to be in control to maintain his sense of self, and the other, who needs the relationship to maintain her sense of self and is willing to acquiesce. The Gaslight Effect happens when you find yourself second guessing your own reality, confused and uncertain of what you think, because you have allowed another to define reality and tell you what you think — and who you are. Gaslighting can be maddening in the early stages and soul destroying when it fully takes hold.”
************
One of the common behaviors of the addicts in my life is that they have used my fear and my love as a tool for their deception. They would say or do things to purposefully escalate my fear and then tell me I'm crazy to be fearful. They would say things (both used/use suicide threats ALOT) to scare/manipulate me into doing what they wanted and then deny that they were "really going to do anything" and that I should have "known that". OR they would allude to suicide but not come right out and say it simply to create fear and then tell me I was crazy to even think that's what they meant. Those are some of the more extreme examples used on me but there are many many more where they would say things and then deny that it was said. Do things and deny it happened. Or simply use denial when presented with evidence.
My behavior DID become crazy. This is also an example IMHO of the behaviors associated with codependence.
The more I read on Gaslighting, the more I recognize this tactic in an addicts behavior patterns. The more I read here on SR, the more I see this tactic being used on others. The lies, deception and denial that is used by addicts seems to me to be a form of Gaslighting. For me, acknowledging that this behavior is happening will help me recognize it when it does.
I can't allow another person to shape or define my own reality.
Just thought I'd share and see what others think. Again, I am NOT a professional in the mental health field! And this is simply an observation on my part and a matter of my own personal opinions and experiences.
gentle hugs
ke
The following is the best definition I could find on Gaslighting and it describes my AXH and my AS's behaviors quite well.
Gaslighting:
One psychological definition of gaslighting is “an increasing frequency of systematically withholding factual information from, and/or providing false information to, the victim – having the gradual effect of making them anxious, confused, and less able to trust their own memory and perception.”
Gaslighting is an insidious form of emotional abuse and manipulation that is difficult to recognize and even harder to break free from.
Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse or brainwashing where one individual attempts to get another individual to believe she is “crazy”. This is most often done through the denial of facts, events, or what one did or did not say. The gaslighter might also directly or indirectly imply that the individual is defective, crazy, or suffers from a mental illness…When this technique is used on someone, he or she may initially become frustrated that one is being told his or her memory or perceptions do not match reality. However, after a while, the individual begins to believe the gaslighter. He or she may start to believe that he or she is imagining things, has some kind of mental illness, or has a faulty memory. When one doubts his or her perceptions of reality, the gaslighter is able to control that person; he or she becomes completely dependent on the gaslighter for the “truth”.
Gas Lighting abuser will also use plain old “denial.” The victim is forced to ask herself if she should even try anything as a next step because he listened to her logical, understandable, completely answerable question and simply said “Nope. Not me. Didn’t do it.” The Gaslighting victim is also left to deal with the fact he knowingly denied this, and what else could possibly be unknown to her.
Overall, the victim starts to realize she needs to be careful when relying on her own perceptions of life.
Gaslighting is the systematic attempt by one person to erode another’s reality, by telling them that what they are experiencing isn’t so – and, the gradual giving up on the part of the other person. Gaslighting takes two – one person who needs to be in control to maintain his sense of self, and the other, who needs the relationship to maintain her sense of self and is willing to acquiesce. The Gaslight Effect happens when you find yourself second guessing your own reality, confused and uncertain of what you think, because you have allowed another to define reality and tell you what you think — and who you are. Gaslighting can be maddening in the early stages and soul destroying when it fully takes hold.”
************
One of the common behaviors of the addicts in my life is that they have used my fear and my love as a tool for their deception. They would say or do things to purposefully escalate my fear and then tell me I'm crazy to be fearful. They would say things (both used/use suicide threats ALOT) to scare/manipulate me into doing what they wanted and then deny that they were "really going to do anything" and that I should have "known that". OR they would allude to suicide but not come right out and say it simply to create fear and then tell me I was crazy to even think that's what they meant. Those are some of the more extreme examples used on me but there are many many more where they would say things and then deny that it was said. Do things and deny it happened. Or simply use denial when presented with evidence.
My behavior DID become crazy. This is also an example IMHO of the behaviors associated with codependence.
The more I read on Gaslighting, the more I recognize this tactic in an addicts behavior patterns. The more I read here on SR, the more I see this tactic being used on others. The lies, deception and denial that is used by addicts seems to me to be a form of Gaslighting. For me, acknowledging that this behavior is happening will help me recognize it when it does.
I can't allow another person to shape or define my own reality.
Just thought I'd share and see what others think. Again, I am NOT a professional in the mental health field! And this is simply an observation on my part and a matter of my own personal opinions and experiences.
gentle hugs
ke
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For those interested, below is an explanation of the origins of the term "gaslighting".
**************************************
The term derives from the 1938 stage play Gas Light (originally known as Angel Street in the United States), and the 1940 and 1944 film adaptations. The plot concerns a husband who attempts to convince his wife and others that she is insane by manipulating small elements of their environment, and insisting that she is mistaken or misremembering when she points out these changes. The title stems from the husband's subtle dimming of the house's gas lights, which she accurately notices and which the husband insists she's imagining.
The term "gaslighting" has been used colloquially since at least the late 1970s to describe efforts to manipulate someone's sense of reality. In a 1980 book on child sex abuse, Florence Rush summarized George Cukor's 1944 film version of Gas Light, and writes, "even today the word [gaslight] is used to describe an attempt to destroy another's perception of reality".
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gentle hugs
ke
**************************************
The term derives from the 1938 stage play Gas Light (originally known as Angel Street in the United States), and the 1940 and 1944 film adaptations. The plot concerns a husband who attempts to convince his wife and others that she is insane by manipulating small elements of their environment, and insisting that she is mistaken or misremembering when she points out these changes. The title stems from the husband's subtle dimming of the house's gas lights, which she accurately notices and which the husband insists she's imagining.
The term "gaslighting" has been used colloquially since at least the late 1970s to describe efforts to manipulate someone's sense of reality. In a 1980 book on child sex abuse, Florence Rush summarized George Cukor's 1944 film version of Gas Light, and writes, "even today the word [gaslight] is used to describe an attempt to destroy another's perception of reality".
************************
gentle hugs
ke
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Thanks for sharing. I agree with you 100 %. I have read about this tactic before and it was a relief to find a term for it. I not only experienced this with my exA, who I was with for almost 7 years, but in my marriage previously. So I have had way too many YEARS of really wondering if I was going insane! Thank goodness, I am out of those relationships.
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Thanks, for sharing I also am glad to finally have a term for it, the one who gaslights me tried on the phone this morning about some certain things and due to technology I was able to say really? because I have saved the text messages that say otherwise.
He is not gonna be happy when he realizes he can't make me question myself on these issues that were being discussed. There is a part of me that wants to say ha ha. Guess that shows me I have a lot more healing to do.
He is not gonna be happy when he realizes he can't make me question myself on these issues that were being discussed. There is a part of me that wants to say ha ha. Guess that shows me I have a lot more healing to do.
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Originally Posted by crazybabie 
There is a part of me that wants to say ha ha. Guess that shows me I have a lot more healing to do.
It's really nice to know that I'm not crazy, even when there is no solid evidence to support my suspicions or concerns. What I find interresting is that I still ask myself 'what if?' As in "what if he really is telling the truth". Looks like I have some work to do too!
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This is powerful information and very insightful! Thought I would add a personal perspective to support your introduction of Gaslighting.
I was involved in an 8+ year relationship (5 yrs married) with a man who was a Narcissist. While this term is bandied about in general in this case two separate therapists came to the conclusion that he could clinically be considered to have this Border Line Personality Disorder. I truly and completely lost my way; I spent many years thinking that I was going crazy, that I was incapable of seeing reality, perhaps had a brain disorder, was mentally ill myself etc etc. It was horrific!! This man was so charming and incrediably intelligent. But, he couldn't help who he was....manipulating and controlling was the only way he knew to connect with people. In retrospect I know that and can see it very clearly but while in the middle of it all I was incapacitated. He re-wrote events to suit his reality of the moment - with everything - big things and little things so that I never knew what was true. He did this by lying about things he did - he also did this by telling me I had not done or said things that I knew I had. It was nuts! Most importantly to him he cut me off from everyone in my life who would have been able to step in and provide me a reality check. Isolating is a key tool in establishing absolute control - Gaslighting doesn't work without this so it is one thing to be very careful of as well.
I ended up with PTSD as a result. Thankfully I landed in a therapists office one day who specialized in EMDR therapy. She and I started in treating the PTSD and thankfully quickly got to the source. Frankly she saved my life!!
I share this because that experience provided me with the ability to establish boundries, understand the needs I had that I was looking for someone else to fill (we all know how well that works
), develop the confidence to put myself first and learn how to detach from toxic relationships in a positive manner. Little did I know that this was going to be training for managing my relationships and interactions with an addicted brother and son. Well, actually it was training for learning a lot about myself and how to keep "me" emotionally healthy.
I do agree that addicts Gaslight - or try too. I also think that because they are doing this while under the influence they aren't really all that good at it if one is paying attention. They are really obvious and awkward in their attempts. Key is the person on the receiving end needs to be able to recognize what is going on, step back and separate our emotional bonds from the reality of their actions. The hopeful thing with an addict though is if they seek recovery.....their need to gaslight may also stop. (A true Narcissist doesn't have that ability).
At any rate this is a strong message supporting recovery for US! Having faith that keeping ourselves healthy, boundries intact, not isolating (SR, therapists, family/friends, Al-Anon etc) and keeping ourselves (and dependents) physically safe should be our number one priority. We do these things and we can deal with anything life throws at us.
By the way.....I have tried to watch the movie and ended up curled up in a fetal position sobbing. Probably could watch it now....but just a warning that when you are in the middle of the craziness it might be a bit much.
Thanks again for posting this....
I was involved in an 8+ year relationship (5 yrs married) with a man who was a Narcissist. While this term is bandied about in general in this case two separate therapists came to the conclusion that he could clinically be considered to have this Border Line Personality Disorder. I truly and completely lost my way; I spent many years thinking that I was going crazy, that I was incapable of seeing reality, perhaps had a brain disorder, was mentally ill myself etc etc. It was horrific!! This man was so charming and incrediably intelligent. But, he couldn't help who he was....manipulating and controlling was the only way he knew to connect with people. In retrospect I know that and can see it very clearly but while in the middle of it all I was incapacitated. He re-wrote events to suit his reality of the moment - with everything - big things and little things so that I never knew what was true. He did this by lying about things he did - he also did this by telling me I had not done or said things that I knew I had. It was nuts! Most importantly to him he cut me off from everyone in my life who would have been able to step in and provide me a reality check. Isolating is a key tool in establishing absolute control - Gaslighting doesn't work without this so it is one thing to be very careful of as well.
I ended up with PTSD as a result. Thankfully I landed in a therapists office one day who specialized in EMDR therapy. She and I started in treating the PTSD and thankfully quickly got to the source. Frankly she saved my life!!
I share this because that experience provided me with the ability to establish boundries, understand the needs I had that I was looking for someone else to fill (we all know how well that works
), develop the confidence to put myself first and learn how to detach from toxic relationships in a positive manner. Little did I know that this was going to be training for managing my relationships and interactions with an addicted brother and son. Well, actually it was training for learning a lot about myself and how to keep "me" emotionally healthy. I do agree that addicts Gaslight - or try too. I also think that because they are doing this while under the influence they aren't really all that good at it if one is paying attention. They are really obvious and awkward in their attempts. Key is the person on the receiving end needs to be able to recognize what is going on, step back and separate our emotional bonds from the reality of their actions. The hopeful thing with an addict though is if they seek recovery.....their need to gaslight may also stop. (A true Narcissist doesn't have that ability).
At any rate this is a strong message supporting recovery for US! Having faith that keeping ourselves healthy, boundries intact, not isolating (SR, therapists, family/friends, Al-Anon etc) and keeping ourselves (and dependents) physically safe should be our number one priority. We do these things and we can deal with anything life throws at us.
By the way.....I have tried to watch the movie and ended up curled up in a fetal position sobbing. Probably could watch it now....but just a warning that when you are in the middle of the craziness it might be a bit much.
Thanks again for posting this....
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Thanks for the post. SR is truly a miracle and is a major part in reclaiming my life. I could not quite put my finger on what it was that made me feel so shaky inside with him not long after we first started dating- within a few months. The minute my gut said something is not right, my core self has never been the same. I knew he was lying and I remember the first time he called me crazy. It turned out what I had thought was true and did not find out until over a year later. Completely abusive. From that day forward, I walked on eggshells and have been through more breakups with him then years I have been alive. And then I woke up to this incredible world of reality just a few weeks ago and it is peaceful. I realized I had been living in his world of deception, pain, and utter hell. I too feel like my reaction to this relationship is like PTSD. I have not had that discussion with my therapist yet and we are taking it slow. More and more is revealed with each day. I am hopeful and feel stronger than ever.
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Fasinating and valuable post Kind. The phenomina you describe not only hits on pyschologically abusive households, but also cults, workplaces, and even hypernationalistic States (witness North Koria).
One thing key in these kinds of manipulative attempts is control of information flow. Put another way, the abuser strives to control the information matrix~~~
Here's a truism: to the degree there are objective goals and measures in an organization (even a marrage could be considered an organization I suppose), and there is measurable work to do, to that degree gaslighting is more difficult to accomplish. On the other hand, where there is lots of unstructured time or chaos in the organization, the opportunities for gaslighting are increased.
Ever hear of workplace politics? They look a lot like gaslighting.
Here's a notion: the tendency to try to shape other's worldview, and the openess to having one's worldview shaped, is stronger the younger the subject becomes. Kind of like peer pressure; what's cool, what's not, who's in and who's hot.
It can be pointed out; mutual communications, with some folks dominant when certan topics or problems arise, act to facilitate worldview formation. This is natural. So, the "openness" to gaslighting (as we use it here, an unhealthy, deliberate, psychological operations kind of thing) is also natural. What stinks is when people or even organizations strive to take advantage of that and, well, brainwash folks.
So how do you spot the gaslighter, or the cult, as opposed to an honest leader who is charismatic or a national ideal truely worth fighting for? One key test at the very least---the bad guys will try to cut off competing information. That is, they don't like objectivity or outside information inputs very much. So, when it comes to politics and "democracy" for example, you can spot the good guys because they don't censor political speech. You can spot the bad guys because they do.
After all, isn't the idea of democracy without freedom of speech nothing other then a farce?
I know my post here doesn't have the focus on a personal relationship that you guys were initially thinking of, but I hope you see the common thread, because it is the *same* phenomina. If you are interested, a fantastic and readable book on the challange of being objective and interpriting information can be found at the link below.
Sorry if my responce was intrusive. I just think this topic is really important.
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...sis/index.html
One thing key in these kinds of manipulative attempts is control of information flow. Put another way, the abuser strives to control the information matrix~~~
Here's a truism: to the degree there are objective goals and measures in an organization (even a marrage could be considered an organization I suppose), and there is measurable work to do, to that degree gaslighting is more difficult to accomplish. On the other hand, where there is lots of unstructured time or chaos in the organization, the opportunities for gaslighting are increased.
Ever hear of workplace politics? They look a lot like gaslighting.
Here's a notion: the tendency to try to shape other's worldview, and the openess to having one's worldview shaped, is stronger the younger the subject becomes. Kind of like peer pressure; what's cool, what's not, who's in and who's hot.
It can be pointed out; mutual communications, with some folks dominant when certan topics or problems arise, act to facilitate worldview formation. This is natural. So, the "openness" to gaslighting (as we use it here, an unhealthy, deliberate, psychological operations kind of thing) is also natural. What stinks is when people or even organizations strive to take advantage of that and, well, brainwash folks.
So how do you spot the gaslighter, or the cult, as opposed to an honest leader who is charismatic or a national ideal truely worth fighting for? One key test at the very least---the bad guys will try to cut off competing information. That is, they don't like objectivity or outside information inputs very much. So, when it comes to politics and "democracy" for example, you can spot the good guys because they don't censor political speech. You can spot the bad guys because they do.
After all, isn't the idea of democracy without freedom of speech nothing other then a farce?
I know my post here doesn't have the focus on a personal relationship that you guys were initially thinking of, but I hope you see the common thread, because it is the *same* phenomina. If you are interested, a fantastic and readable book on the challange of being objective and interpriting information can be found at the link below.
Sorry if my responce was intrusive. I just think this topic is really important.
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-f...sis/index.html
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I haven't been on this sight for awhile because I felt that I needed a break. It was just bringing back too many bad memories of my axbf. As soon as I read this I felt that I needed to reply.
After much too long of a roller coaster ride with the addict, I broke things off only to go back after he got out of rehab and was clean. What ensued those months after that was almost worse than the months he was on drugs. He has major mental health issues that were being masked by him self medicating with opiates. I had no idea what was coming. He told me towards the end his psychiatrist and therapist thought he was bipolar. I definitely saw the mania at the end. However, I feel like he could definitely also be narcissistic and definitely has many of the Borderline traits. Not sure if it's possible to have all three diagnoses but if there's someone who could fit that bill, it was him.
After he moved his belongings in and out of my house three times in a week and a half, and after the gaslighting you are referring to here and the other rages, I thank god called it quits. It's been almost two years of pure hell. I am so glad he's gone now and I finally feel some sort of peace in my home slowly. I felt good for weeks. Then all of a sudden this past weekend, I started to feel really down and anxious and angry about the whole thing again. Maybe it is a form of PTSD of having someone this toxic in your life. The gaslighting, the blaming, and the worse is the manipulating the lies and the CONTROL because they have no control of their own lives. It's just too much to wrap your head around at times. I never knew pure evil existed until this man came into my life. I honestly was naive because I thought it was the drugs that took his brain over. Boy was I wrong!!!
After much too long of a roller coaster ride with the addict, I broke things off only to go back after he got out of rehab and was clean. What ensued those months after that was almost worse than the months he was on drugs. He has major mental health issues that were being masked by him self medicating with opiates. I had no idea what was coming. He told me towards the end his psychiatrist and therapist thought he was bipolar. I definitely saw the mania at the end. However, I feel like he could definitely also be narcissistic and definitely has many of the Borderline traits. Not sure if it's possible to have all three diagnoses but if there's someone who could fit that bill, it was him.
After he moved his belongings in and out of my house three times in a week and a half, and after the gaslighting you are referring to here and the other rages, I thank god called it quits. It's been almost two years of pure hell. I am so glad he's gone now and I finally feel some sort of peace in my home slowly. I felt good for weeks. Then all of a sudden this past weekend, I started to feel really down and anxious and angry about the whole thing again. Maybe it is a form of PTSD of having someone this toxic in your life. The gaslighting, the blaming, and the worse is the manipulating the lies and the CONTROL because they have no control of their own lives. It's just too much to wrap your head around at times. I never knew pure evil existed until this man came into my life. I honestly was naive because I thought it was the drugs that took his brain over. Boy was I wrong!!!
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And the gaslighting I know is a trait of Borderlines. I've read so much on it. I have no clue how someone could act so "normal" for days/weeks at a time, profess their undying love, be sweet, sensitive, caring, loving and then just turn and act so evil, manipulative, dishonest, etc. in literally a matter of seconds. Honestly, these traits that he displayed mirrored what many addicts do but sadly, people with these mental health issues act the same way when sober. That was just such a blow to find out. Sadly, in rehab, the underlying mental health issues are just not addressed.
I hope and pray to God that some of my disgust, anger and hurt with this person goes away. The gaslighting just seems so incredibly evil to me. I don't know how people can behave in that manner to just control people. My ex is obviously mentally ill and I have to remember that he has no control or love for himself and he probably never has so there's no way he could ever love anyone in a healthy way.
I hope and pray to God that some of my disgust, anger and hurt with this person goes away. The gaslighting just seems so incredibly evil to me. I don't know how people can behave in that manner to just control people. My ex is obviously mentally ill and I have to remember that he has no control or love for himself and he probably never has so there's no way he could ever love anyone in a healthy way.
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Madison, I know a person can have a diagnosis of bipolar and borderline at the same time because I have. However, bipolar and borderline personality disorder have many masked symptoms that it is sometimes even hard for me to know which is rearing it's head.
Yet, at the same time I see that a lot of Codependency traits are the same as borderline.
I am very thankful that I never self medicated. So many do.
Yet, at the same time I see that a lot of Codependency traits are the same as borderline.
I am very thankful that I never self medicated. So many do.
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Originally Posted by allforcnm
KE.
what hits me from the description you gave is the term 'victim'.
I was wondering is that how you feel in regards to your sons addiction?
what hits me from the description you gave is the term 'victim'.
I was wondering is that how you feel in regards to your sons addiction?
gentle hugs
ke
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The phenomina you describe not only hits on pyschologically abusive households, but also cults, workplaces, and even hypernationalistic States (witness North Koria).
gentle hugs
ke
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Originally Posted by cangel2
I share this because that experience provided me with the ability to establish boundries, understand the needs I had that I was looking for someone else to fill (we all know how well that works ), develop the confidence to put myself first and learn how to detach from toxic relationships in a positive manner. Little did I know that this was going to be training for managing my relationships and interactions with an addicted brother and son. Well, actually it was training for learning a lot about myself and how to keep "me" emotionally healthy.
I do agree that addicts Gaslight - or try too. I also think that because they are doing this while under the influence they aren't really all that good at it if one is paying attention. They are really obvious and awkward in their attempts. Key is the person on the receiving end needs to be able to recognize what is going on, step back and separate our emotional bonds from the reality of their actions. The hopeful thing with an addict though is if they seek recovery.....their need to gaslight may also stop. (A true Narcissist doesn't have that ability).
At any rate this is a strong message supporting recovery for US! Having faith that keeping ourselves healthy, boundries intact, not isolating (SR, therapists, family/friends, Al-Anon etc) and keeping ourselves (and dependents) physically safe should be our number one priority. We do these things and we can deal with anything life throws at us.
), develop the confidence to put myself first and learn how to detach from toxic relationships in a positive manner. Little did I know that this was going to be training for managing my relationships and interactions with an addicted brother and son. Well, actually it was training for learning a lot about myself and how to keep "me" emotionally healthy. I do agree that addicts Gaslight - or try too. I also think that because they are doing this while under the influence they aren't really all that good at it if one is paying attention. They are really obvious and awkward in their attempts. Key is the person on the receiving end needs to be able to recognize what is going on, step back and separate our emotional bonds from the reality of their actions. The hopeful thing with an addict though is if they seek recovery.....their need to gaslight may also stop. (A true Narcissist doesn't have that ability).
At any rate this is a strong message supporting recovery for US! Having faith that keeping ourselves healthy, boundries intact, not isolating (SR, therapists, family/friends, Al-Anon etc) and keeping ourselves (and dependents) physically safe should be our number one priority. We do these things and we can deal with anything life throws at us.
I think that the most important thing you stated in your post is that once we recognize behaviors ( our own as well as the addicts), we are empowered to deal with it. We certainly can't change another person's behaviors but we can certainly change how we react to them.
The old saying "it takes two to tango". In the dance of addiction, we can leave the dance floor.....sometimes by simply recognizing and detaching from the behaviors......and sometimes, for our own mental well being, we leave it literally.
gentle hugs
ke
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Thank you so much for sharing this post. I was just about to leave for work and read this. It is exactly what goes on and I'm so glad that you shared it. Have a good day I want get back to u later late for work
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I was the target of much gas-lighting, I think the object of the exercise was to deflect attention away from him and back onto me.
often the form it took was very hard to describe, I'd come out of a conversation reeling, but it ranged from flat out denial that things I/he had said/done occurred (I started emailing him with everything after a while so that I could check whether I was going insane or not (I wasn't, and it doesn't stop him trying it, but forwarding the relevant email stops the flow). saying that I had done the things that he actually had, denying conversations, telling me I had said/done things that I knew I hadn't, or things had occurred in my past that hadn't, even down to changing the timing of my parent's divorce by 2 decades (I didn't fall for that one).
Other things that were done were very particular to my mental idiosyncracies: I have varying anxiety of social interactions, this was extremely heightened whilst we were living together, (and is almost entirely absent now we are divorced: not saying there's a causal link). Sometimes I'd be very socially awkward and couldn't really hold a conversation, I'd often worry a lot after I'd seen/spoken to someone, because I thought they would think me rude/odd/haughty/an idiot (I don't come off as shy, I come off as aloof) or I would spend time worrying that I may have upset them or said something thoughtless that caused them pain.
He very much knew this. There are a few times I remember him starting to tell me that I had said something that was a bit off or hurtful but then stopped short of telling me who or what/why, stating he didn't want to do that to me. Well, I just flew into anxiety overload with this, running through every conversation I had had over months, what I could possibly have said that was hurtful or could have been taken the wrong way, hours, and hours and hours of worrying, sleepless nights. One time I remember begging him in tears to tell me what I'd said so that I could make it right, but he wouldn't, and he made it sound like he was trying to protect me by not telling me.
I have been called a psychopath and sociopath, told I have no empathy or feelings...
it goes on,
Unlike in the film, this isn't a calculated, brilliantly executed campaign, it's just his default defence mechanism.
often the form it took was very hard to describe, I'd come out of a conversation reeling, but it ranged from flat out denial that things I/he had said/done occurred (I started emailing him with everything after a while so that I could check whether I was going insane or not (I wasn't, and it doesn't stop him trying it, but forwarding the relevant email stops the flow). saying that I had done the things that he actually had, denying conversations, telling me I had said/done things that I knew I hadn't, or things had occurred in my past that hadn't, even down to changing the timing of my parent's divorce by 2 decades (I didn't fall for that one).
Other things that were done were very particular to my mental idiosyncracies: I have varying anxiety of social interactions, this was extremely heightened whilst we were living together, (and is almost entirely absent now we are divorced: not saying there's a causal link). Sometimes I'd be very socially awkward and couldn't really hold a conversation, I'd often worry a lot after I'd seen/spoken to someone, because I thought they would think me rude/odd/haughty/an idiot (I don't come off as shy, I come off as aloof) or I would spend time worrying that I may have upset them or said something thoughtless that caused them pain.
He very much knew this. There are a few times I remember him starting to tell me that I had said something that was a bit off or hurtful but then stopped short of telling me who or what/why, stating he didn't want to do that to me. Well, I just flew into anxiety overload with this, running through every conversation I had had over months, what I could possibly have said that was hurtful or could have been taken the wrong way, hours, and hours and hours of worrying, sleepless nights. One time I remember begging him in tears to tell me what I'd said so that I could make it right, but he wouldn't, and he made it sound like he was trying to protect me by not telling me.
I have been called a psychopath and sociopath, told I have no empathy or feelings...
it goes on,
Unlike in the film, this isn't a calculated, brilliantly executed campaign, it's just his default defence mechanism.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 1,011
KE - good thread. Thanks for starting it. Speaking up to the subtle gaslighting the addicts in my life have used on me has been a journey - esp when I was married to an active addict. I question the intentional aspect of it. My son and husband (now ex) act like 3-year-olds, and how cognizant is a 3-YO in that regard except to achieve the short-term goal.
So i'm reminded of the saying i have heard in Alanon that once the addict gets me talking, I've been had. and also the one about "how can you tell when an addict is lying? When their lips are moving." Those are harsh statements and maybe even hurtful for an addict to read, but they really are true.
One of the readings from Alanon ODAT that I like is where the spouse is advised to picture her active addict wearing hospital gown-type clothing when she talked to him - to help her remember that she was communicating with someone who was in need of that type of help and not the "normal" person person she kept picturing him to be and that he kept trying to convince her that he was.
Thanks again.
So i'm reminded of the saying i have heard in Alanon that once the addict gets me talking, I've been had. and also the one about "how can you tell when an addict is lying? When their lips are moving." Those are harsh statements and maybe even hurtful for an addict to read, but they really are true.
One of the readings from Alanon ODAT that I like is where the spouse is advised to picture her active addict wearing hospital gown-type clothing when she talked to him - to help her remember that she was communicating with someone who was in need of that type of help and not the "normal" person person she kept picturing him to be and that he kept trying to convince her that he was.
Thanks again.
Curmudgeon, Electrical Engineer, Guitar God Wannabe
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Where the mighty arms of Atlas hold the heavens from the Earth
Posts: 3,403
Gaslighting...
Yeah, I'm the victim of that. My AXGF is really good at it. She's a pro. And now five months clear of it, I see it all laid out in front of me. It's going to take a while to fully heal from all of it.
One of the big takeaways from my experiences is it really didn't matter if I was a good guy or a jerk. She was going to do the same thing regardless. That's how sick she is. And with all that manipulation, all that abuse, all her attempts to marginalize me...I can all but guarantee she is still the same sick, vile, lost person she's been for most of her life. So whenever I get a little down sometimes, I remind myself things could be worse: I could be her.
ZoSo
Yeah, I'm the victim of that. My AXGF is really good at it. She's a pro. And now five months clear of it, I see it all laid out in front of me. It's going to take a while to fully heal from all of it.
One of the big takeaways from my experiences is it really didn't matter if I was a good guy or a jerk. She was going to do the same thing regardless. That's how sick she is. And with all that manipulation, all that abuse, all her attempts to marginalize me...I can all but guarantee she is still the same sick, vile, lost person she's been for most of her life. So whenever I get a little down sometimes, I remind myself things could be worse: I could be her.
ZoSo
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