parents beginning to show true colors?
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parents beginning to show true colors?
Long story hopefully recapped shortly here, I went no contact with my parents about 4 years ago, finally fed up with the negativity, complaints, criticisms against other people, against me...etc.
My 18 year old has in the past explained to me that he's sure I THINK these things happened, and he's sure his grandparents THINK they're right, but.... (and went on to explain how really I should just mend this break in our relationship, strongly implying that really the things I think happened--including physical assaults--didn't...not really.) My parents do not do and say the things to my kids that they would say and do to me, so my kids don't GET it.
So, fast forward to today. My other son lives with my parents. He struggles with many things, most likely due to Asperger's, including getting and keeping a job. He's been working for about 18 months now, most of that time at 3 different jobs. He recently was fired from one and is seeking a job to replace it. When DS18 recently saw my mother, she started in complaining about DS22 not looking hard enough, not caring if he got a job, etc. DS18, in the car with me, was curious about this, because his observation is that his brother is excited to have a new lead and racing right out to pursue that job.
I don't ever want to say negative things about my parents, both because it would be acting just like my mother who never misses a chance to find fault with others, and because I believe it'll come back and bite me. So I talked around it, talked about other people's perceptions, and that this is why it's a good idea not to talk badly about people, because we really don't know what's going on in their heads; and why it's a good idea to take negative comments about other people with a grain of salt--because we just don't know.
I never named any names.
I suppose I don't have a question. Just wanted to talk about it. I don't WANT my children to hate their grandparents, but it's very, very hard knowing that my parents are without a doubt bad-mouthing me to them and somewhat undermining my relationship with my own children.
And yes, I know everyone keeps saying not to let my children near them. I don't. Those who have drivers licences go on their own. My other children see their grandparents twice a year at extended family gatherings that my parents also attend. So, I guess sadly, I just pray that my children will see the truth someday, and I wonder if this incident was the first step in DS18 seeing that his grandmother is negative and critical and foolish in her assessments of other people, not to mention a little haughty and cruel in smearing people's names. I wonder if this is the first step in him realizing his grandparents are NOT reliable witnesses in what they say about me, either.
My 18 year old has in the past explained to me that he's sure I THINK these things happened, and he's sure his grandparents THINK they're right, but.... (and went on to explain how really I should just mend this break in our relationship, strongly implying that really the things I think happened--including physical assaults--didn't...not really.) My parents do not do and say the things to my kids that they would say and do to me, so my kids don't GET it.
So, fast forward to today. My other son lives with my parents. He struggles with many things, most likely due to Asperger's, including getting and keeping a job. He's been working for about 18 months now, most of that time at 3 different jobs. He recently was fired from one and is seeking a job to replace it. When DS18 recently saw my mother, she started in complaining about DS22 not looking hard enough, not caring if he got a job, etc. DS18, in the car with me, was curious about this, because his observation is that his brother is excited to have a new lead and racing right out to pursue that job.
I don't ever want to say negative things about my parents, both because it would be acting just like my mother who never misses a chance to find fault with others, and because I believe it'll come back and bite me. So I talked around it, talked about other people's perceptions, and that this is why it's a good idea not to talk badly about people, because we really don't know what's going on in their heads; and why it's a good idea to take negative comments about other people with a grain of salt--because we just don't know.
I never named any names.
I suppose I don't have a question. Just wanted to talk about it. I don't WANT my children to hate their grandparents, but it's very, very hard knowing that my parents are without a doubt bad-mouthing me to them and somewhat undermining my relationship with my own children.
And yes, I know everyone keeps saying not to let my children near them. I don't. Those who have drivers licences go on their own. My other children see their grandparents twice a year at extended family gatherings that my parents also attend. So, I guess sadly, I just pray that my children will see the truth someday, and I wonder if this incident was the first step in DS18 seeing that his grandmother is negative and critical and foolish in her assessments of other people, not to mention a little haughty and cruel in smearing people's names. I wonder if this is the first step in him realizing his grandparents are NOT reliable witnesses in what they say about me, either.
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I don't know how you do it, have your kids that enmeshed with them. I did my best with my parents but never left my kid with them once. I didn't want her to hate my parents either, but I didn't want her to identify with them either. I think we did a pretty good balancing act. I told her nothing of my life with them until she was a late teen, I still haven't told her the whole story and she is now 22. But my parents are both deceased so it would serve no purpose now I guess. I strongly agree with the others that have told you to limit your kids contact to your parents. Specially now with the the other two at home(?). I was pleasant, did my best with holidays, birthdays, gifts, and helped when I could, didn't help when I couldn't. I was really detached. But for me that started at age 2, I never wanted the acceptance or love from the crazy people that happened to be my parents.
It is said "perception is reality" but I have a real problem with that phrase. Some things are not up for interpretation. I had a very close friend that I loved very much. He one time said the same thing to me, that he was sure I THOUGHT these things happened to me. Sadly I had no choice but to leave him cold, I thought he knew me better than that. My oldest sister says that as well, as she was favored and has a different view of my life. I will not let people tell me that. My bruises daily told me that these things actually happened.
I say "Perception is your skewed view of reality so you can play both sides against the middle, my perception is reality that really happened." ha ha.
I would definitely have words with the "diplomatic" son and tell him that reality is what really happens, bush league psychology is what happens when the guilty and those that love them, re writes it.
It is said "perception is reality" but I have a real problem with that phrase. Some things are not up for interpretation. I had a very close friend that I loved very much. He one time said the same thing to me, that he was sure I THOUGHT these things happened to me. Sadly I had no choice but to leave him cold, I thought he knew me better than that. My oldest sister says that as well, as she was favored and has a different view of my life. I will not let people tell me that. My bruises daily told me that these things actually happened.
I say "Perception is your skewed view of reality so you can play both sides against the middle, my perception is reality that really happened." ha ha.
I would definitely have words with the "diplomatic" son and tell him that reality is what really happens, bush league psychology is what happens when the guilty and those that love them, re writes it.
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They are adults and can make their own decisions, and very likely "in time" they will see the truth. There is little you can do about it now, address each issue as it is raised and just know that you know the truth, sometimes that has to be enough.
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Originally Posted by Kialua 
I don't know how you do it, have your kids that enmeshed with them. I did my best with my parents but never left my kid with them once.
Your comments about perception and reality bring up some questions about alcoholics. My brother has said absolutely baffling things to me about things I've supposedly done or not done, that are factually just not even true. My father genuinely believes (I think) that he has never laid a hand on me or said the ugly things to me. I believe it simply wasn't important enough for him to remember. So to them, even though these things DID factually happen, to my parents, they didn't. Then they want me to 'explain' my withdrawal without referencing any of the many things that provoked it...since in their minds, those things didn't actually happen.
Their perception then becomes that I'm irrational and imagining things and ungrateful.
There's really nowhere to go from there.
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******{Evening Rose}}}}}
I struggle with the "To Be Fair, Land in the Middle" conclusions that people sometimes come to, those who weren't there. The "Well, it takes two to tango so you MUST have had done something wrong." It's a false equivalency. No, sometimes it's just wrong.
I hear you on the "Irrational and imagining things."
And also the, "Well, you should be the bigger person and just go apologize."
Classic Codie traps imo.
Sending you light, happy, sunshiny vibes.
I struggle with the "To Be Fair, Land in the Middle" conclusions that people sometimes come to, those who weren't there. The "Well, it takes two to tango so you MUST have had done something wrong." It's a false equivalency. No, sometimes it's just wrong.
I hear you on the "Irrational and imagining things."
And also the, "Well, you should be the bigger person and just go apologize."
Classic Codie traps imo.
Sending you light, happy, sunshiny vibes.
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Originally Posted by frances2011
******{Evening Rose}}}}}
I struggle with the "To Be Fair, Land in the Middle" conclusions that people sometimes come to, those who weren't there. The "Well, it takes two to tango so you MUST have had done something wrong." It's a false equivalency. No, sometimes it's just wrong.
I struggle with the "To Be Fair, Land in the Middle" conclusions that people sometimes come to, those who weren't there. The "Well, it takes two to tango so you MUST have had done something wrong." It's a false equivalency. No, sometimes it's just wrong.
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No it doesn't always take two to tango, you're right.
In my foo my favored siblings tell me to get over it , I deserved and it didn't really happen. So I ignore them and don't have anything to do with them. I see them at the occasional wedding or funeral but that's it. They drive right past my house on their way to the fair and don't think for a minute to bother to call me or stop in. My reality is real. Their version of reality is nothing but a lie, I don't care how much they believe it, it doesn't make it real. They believe a lie because it's easier than facing the truth.
I don't know why I can realize that and don't fall under the false reality created by my foo. Only that I realized my parents were nuts when I was really young (3) and I separated at 18 and didn't play those games. I knew early on it wasn't my fault but I could never figure out how to please my AF. One day doing (A) made him mad, the next day doing (A) was ok. I never knew how to outsmart him or please him. It was years later as an adult that I figured out it wasn't about me and what I did or didn't do. It was about him, him being drunk and a jerk and acting out.
I hope you can retrain yourself and know it wasn't your fault.
In my foo my favored siblings tell me to get over it , I deserved and it didn't really happen. So I ignore them and don't have anything to do with them. I see them at the occasional wedding or funeral but that's it. They drive right past my house on their way to the fair and don't think for a minute to bother to call me or stop in. My reality is real. Their version of reality is nothing but a lie, I don't care how much they believe it, it doesn't make it real. They believe a lie because it's easier than facing the truth.
I don't know why I can realize that and don't fall under the false reality created by my foo. Only that I realized my parents were nuts when I was really young (3) and I separated at 18 and didn't play those games. I knew early on it wasn't my fault but I could never figure out how to please my AF. One day doing (A) made him mad, the next day doing (A) was ok. I never knew how to outsmart him or please him. It was years later as an adult that I figured out it wasn't about me and what I did or didn't do. It was about him, him being drunk and a jerk and acting out.
I hope you can retrain yourself and know it wasn't your fault.
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Originally Posted by frances2011
******{Evening Rose}}}}}
I struggle with the "To Be Fair, Land in the Middle" conclusions that people sometimes come to, those who weren't there. The "Well, it takes two to tango so you MUST have had done something wrong." It's a false equivalency. No, sometimes it's just wrong.
I struggle with the "To Be Fair, Land in the Middle" conclusions that people sometimes come to, those who weren't there. The "Well, it takes two to tango so you MUST have had done something wrong." It's a false equivalency. No, sometimes it's just wrong.
Yep I am the same- shades of grey... meet in the middle....
At base a lot of that is black and white, 'my way or the highway'
thinking.
I want colour in my life.
-Da.
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Two things I want to share:
1. For me, I realize that I kept going back to my older sister for more abuse. Every single time, it was lousy. (Tempered with the occasional "Dangling Carrot" of a nice interaction that made me think, "Hey! This could work!".) I kept going back to the abusive dance. In that sense, yes, I was playing my part in it continuing.
Once I went NC, I got grief and disapproval for holding a "grudge." So, I was praised and punished for keeping the game going, but only punished by family for ceasing it. No support for it. However, I am finally getting real healthy praise--FROM MYSELF--for ceasing it. My body and soul say, "Oh thank god. No more! THANK YOU."
2. I think that recovering from abusive relationships gives me a grateful attitude for loving relationships. I have a friend who is the essence of friendship. She shares her life with me with no expectations or strings. She is genuinely happy for my contributions. She enjoys me. And I love her back. She tells me when I do something she doesn't like. She accepts apologies. She can say no. She is monetarily wealthy but is not not into status. She's sort of famously non-sentimental among our friends. She's not a Big To-Do person. She knows I'm mushy and sentimental and she teases me about it but only in the nicest, most loving way as WHO I AM.
Her idea of a wonderful present is something from the heart or hands. I gave her peas from my garden and that was better than anything I could buy from the store.
She's a treasure.
I felt moved to share these thoughts because I believe this kind of relationship is possible for all of us. She is part of my family, my real family.
1. For me, I realize that I kept going back to my older sister for more abuse. Every single time, it was lousy. (Tempered with the occasional "Dangling Carrot" of a nice interaction that made me think, "Hey! This could work!".) I kept going back to the abusive dance. In that sense, yes, I was playing my part in it continuing.
Once I went NC, I got grief and disapproval for holding a "grudge." So, I was praised and punished for keeping the game going, but only punished by family for ceasing it. No support for it. However, I am finally getting real healthy praise--FROM MYSELF--for ceasing it. My body and soul say, "Oh thank god. No more! THANK YOU."
2. I think that recovering from abusive relationships gives me a grateful attitude for loving relationships. I have a friend who is the essence of friendship. She shares her life with me with no expectations or strings. She is genuinely happy for my contributions. She enjoys me. And I love her back. She tells me when I do something she doesn't like. She accepts apologies. She can say no. She is monetarily wealthy but is not not into status. She's sort of famously non-sentimental among our friends. She's not a Big To-Do person. She knows I'm mushy and sentimental and she teases me about it but only in the nicest, most loving way as WHO I AM.
Her idea of a wonderful present is something from the heart or hands. I gave her peas from my garden and that was better than anything I could buy from the store.
She's a treasure.
I felt moved to share these thoughts because I believe this kind of relationship is possible for all of us. She is part of my family, my real family.
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Originally Posted by Kialua
No it doesn't always take two to tango, you're right.
In my foo my favored siblings tell me to get over it , I deserved and it didn't really happen. So I ignore them and don't have anything to do with them. I see them at the occasional wedding or funeral but that's it. They drive right past my house on their way to the fair and don't think for a minute to bother to call me or stop in. My reality is real. Their version of reality is nothing but a lie, I don't care how much they believe it, it doesn't make it real. They believe a lie because it's easier than facing the truth.
In my foo my favored siblings tell me to get over it , I deserved and it didn't really happen. So I ignore them and don't have anything to do with them. I see them at the occasional wedding or funeral but that's it. They drive right past my house on their way to the fair and don't think for a minute to bother to call me or stop in. My reality is real. Their version of reality is nothing but a lie, I don't care how much they believe it, it doesn't make it real. They believe a lie because it's easier than facing the truth.
And siblings ignoring me...one of them walked into my work place last week, was literally three inches from me as I spoke to a client, and completely ignored me. It just amazes me, especially when I think...why? Because I said I don't want to be screamed at at holidays, thanks.
I don't know why I can realize that and don't fall under the false reality created by my foo. Only that I realized my parents were nuts when I was really young (3) and I separated at 18 and didn't play those games. I knew early on it wasn't my fault but I could never figure out how to please my AF. One day doing (A) made him mad, the next day doing (A) was ok. I never knew how to outsmart him or please him. It was years later as an adult that I figured out it wasn't about me and what I did or didn't do. It was about him, him being drunk and a jerk and acting out.
I hope you can retrain yourself and know it wasn't your fault.
I hope you can retrain yourself and know it wasn't your fault.
I remember at 18 realizing that if I did A, AF would say I should have done B, and if I did B, he'd say I should have done A; and finally coming to the understanding as a parent myself, seeing that I would never do and say the things he did, to my own children, that he was just angry and cranky and taking it out on whoever seemed weakest.
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Originally Posted by frances2011
Two things I want to share:
1. For me, I realize that I kept going back to my older sister for more abuse. Every single time, it was lousy. (Tempered with the occasional "Dangling Carrot" of a nice interaction that made me think, "Hey! This could work!".) I kept going back to the abusive dance. In that sense, yes, I was playing my part in it continuing.
Once I went NC, I got grief and disapproval for holding a "grudge." So, I was praised and punished for keeping the game going, but only punished by family for ceasing it. No support for it. However, I am finally getting real healthy praise--FROM MYSELF--for ceasing it. My body and soul say, "Oh thank god. No more! THANK YOU."
1. For me, I realize that I kept going back to my older sister for more abuse. Every single time, it was lousy. (Tempered with the occasional "Dangling Carrot" of a nice interaction that made me think, "Hey! This could work!".) I kept going back to the abusive dance. In that sense, yes, I was playing my part in it continuing.
Once I went NC, I got grief and disapproval for holding a "grudge." So, I was praised and punished for keeping the game going, but only punished by family for ceasing it. No support for it. However, I am finally getting real healthy praise--FROM MYSELF--for ceasing it. My body and soul say, "Oh thank god. No more! THANK YOU."
And yes, I'm also being accused of 'holding a grudge.' I finally realized that 'holding a grudge' to my parents, means anything other than crawling back to be kicked again. Oh, well.
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