choublak

My whole life, my dad has been overly defensive of his parents, my paternal grandparents. His parents have humble origins, so I guess he felt insecure about that? He is, after all, all about money. Anyway, as my brother and I were growing up he was always on the defense when it came to visits with his parents (including taking a belt to us if he thought we were being disrespectful to them) to the point where both my brother and I have stopped seeing them as grandparents (I'm not sure we ever really did). We never see them anymore, I won't speak for my brother, but I personally feel very uncomfortable seeing them because of bad memories (which I've blocked out but still remember the fact that they were traumatic). I remember when I was five they came to our house for Thanksgiving and during dinner I was misbehaving, don't remember what I was doing/saying, but my dad took me from the table, carried me up to my room and took the belt to me, saying "don't you ever, ever, ever talk back to your grandparents!" But yeah I don't care for them. Earlier today my dad texts me and I feel like it's emotional blackmail...

Him: You know you have another set of grand parents too. Grandmom just turned 89 last month and grand dad just turned 84. I'm going to see them today.

I should have just ignored that. But I had to be all bold and stupid and respond with:

"You have ALWAYS been overly defensive of your parents as we were growing up. Very unpleasant. It's about time you ask YOURSELF why. No need to share with me nor anyone else. You take your own inventory."

Big mistake.

Him: You know what, you're an a**hole jerk!!!!!! You'll never hear from me again. You won't receive any more checks from me!

Checks. Yes, sadly I still depend on my parents financially. Which is why I still talk to him. Ugh.

Katiekate

I wonder what they did to him???

choublak

I have no idea. His father was in the air force and thus not at home a lot. His mother is European and a super control freak.

You really think his parents might have done something to him? That speculation did cross my mind, but I don't know anything for sure.

scrambled2012

You didn't say you don't love them or you don't want to see them. You pointed out stress over past events. Perhaps try to restate this important point to your dad.

Also, remember, its not only "what did they do to him,"---remember, they were kids, and thier parents were kids, at one point, dealing with wars, famine, horror on a large scale. None of us are perfect, many of us, of many generations, are scared because of such things.

Remember, you are a different person, not the kid you once were. Visiting them on your own terms, using your own transportation and on your own timeline, might be an approch that can minimize this stress from the past.

I know it's not PC, but I do believe, that respect for our elders is a command and not an option. Part of my reasons for divorcing more then half my family is related to this belief (isn't that ironic, don'tcha think?).

Best wishes~~~~

Melissa0067

I had so may mixed emotions reading your post. I too was physically and emotionally abused by my father. Matter of fact, I was just reading a journal that I wrote when I was 10 years old and in it I mention a few times the abuse and some of the things he did to me. One of my entries struck me pretty hard as I was reading. I wrote that it was a good day because my father now had to ask permission to hit me. As I was reading it I vaguely remembered that happening.

I could very easily take this out on my mother. I mean she stayed with a man who tormented the entire family and probably made me this codependent mess that I am today. Why didn't she leave him sooner? Why didn't she protect the kids that she brought into this world? Why didn't she love us enough to get us out of there? And in reality, she is very much to blame for a lot of what my father did and not taking us away. Today, I am in therapy with the same counselor that I had when I was 16, I am now 41. I am just starting to figure out all of this. The relationship with EXAB has brought a lot of this codependency to light. Near the end of codependent no more there is a section with questions to figure out which group you should go to. There are 14 questions for ACOA, I answered a big yes to all 14 of them and sat there stunned for probably a good 20 minutes. I had no idea.

My father and I did have a better relationship after that, and a much better one after I was 25 and he saw and respected me more as an adult, but it never took away all the things he did to me, things I will never forget, ever. On his death bed, when I was 29, I had a very open conversation with him about my life and asked if he was proud of me. It was something I needed to know before he died and I am glad that we had better times in my 20's and that talk before he was gone. My brother did not have any of that with him and is totally screwed up today. 39, lives at home with my mother, never held down a job, bad attitude, does drugs, etc.

I understand how you connect this abuse to your grandparents but I don't see how it is their fault. Did they know what he was doing? You should be able to tell your father what you are feeling and how the things he has done to you have affected you. I am not sure of your age or why you are still dependent on him, but maybe some family therapy would be best, for you and your father. If you ignore what you feel and want to say to him, it will come out some other way at some point. Do not bottle it up. Where is your mother in this picture? Is she still around? Can she help you with all of this? If there is any way for you not to be dependent on him financially, it would be better of course, or else he will always hang that over your head like he did today. He is obviously using that to control you in some way and there should be a way to put and end to that.

If you can, I would also suggest trying to have some kind of relationship with your grandparents before they pass. Time is something you cannot get back. If it is a reasonable thing to do. Not because your father wants you to but do not turn your back on them because of him either.

choublak

Therapy. Ha! My father "doesn't believe in therapists".

My father is not an alcoholic nor an addict, but he is (I think) a narcissist. He cheated on my mom over the course of 3-5 years. Long story, you can read my posts if you want to know more.

choublak

BTW, I wasn't trying to be snide or rude, I'm just genuinely tired of telling and re-telling this story.

Fandy

"Checks. Yes, sadly I still depend on my parents financially. Which is why I still talk to him. Ugh"

and it's "too much work" to look up the number to the local police station when he talks suicide???

when my child was this discompassionate and deliberately rude, I simply told her she was "off my PAYROLL. go out and get a job"....(which she did, 5 years later graduating magna and taking the LCATS next September....i am a proud mama recovering alkie and glad i let her go to fend for herself)

choublak

Discompassionate and deliberately rude? I have shown more compassion than I should have toward this man who is supposed to be my father but who has a mistress younger than both his children, has collaborated with said mistress to have my mom taken to jail overnight, and whose adult sex life I know more about than I ever cared to know (and no I was not molested). YOU are just saying that because you're still mad about what I said about alcoholics having it easier than their loved ones, don't deny it.

This man manipulates his own family with money yet has no problem handing over $8,000 for breast implants for his mistress (yes, 8k for breast implants, you read that right) and has also bought her a car, a condo, taken her on trips in his private plane, etc. all because she fuels his ego and he apparently needs an infinite supply of reassurances that he is "sexy" etc.

He is not an alcoholic, yet possesses all the traits of one. My bf, the alkie and original reason I came here, is in recovery, doing well, and doesn't seem to possess any "typical" traits of an alcoholic. I feel like I'm living in Alice in Wonderland where everything is reversed.

choublak

He was also harassing me all day yesterday, which is also my fault for allowing it, but yeah, I was at a birthday picnic for my other grandfather, my mom's father. My dad kept calling my phone and I finally told him I was busy at a birthday picnic for my grandfather. So he stopped calling and resumed texting. It was very ugly. Anyway, I guess he got out of his funk, because later on in the evening, he texts me this:

"I'm sorry about bothering earlier today. I was just really down. I feel better now. I think I'll be ok, I'm just going to look forward and try to be optimistic. I wouldn't kill myself because I'm too chicken. Even though mom won't ever talk to me I hope you always will. I'm just going to concentrate on my business. I need to make money for all of us."

I have no idea who "all of us" is. Not that it matters anyway.

Fandy

so then you might want to consider cutting all contact and stop taking his $$$.

you don't know anything about about me, my alcoholism or my loved ones.

choublak

Some of the gems from yesterday.

"Can you text or call mom and ask her if she will see me for 30 minutes today, could be lunch or dinner. I want to tell her personally about the proposal I talked to my lawyer about."

"Ask her to meet with me. I can't stay away much longer and when I go over there, they will put me in jail!!! I have to see her!!!"

"I can't work because I'm so depressed without her. My business is going down the drain. I'm gonna be totally broke by October. I can't save the business unless she is with me. I can't concentrate!!"

Impurrfect

(((Choublak))) - may dad has some serious issues. I would discuss this issues for a while, then finally said "enough...I am your DAUGHTER and I don't need to be the one you talk to about this". His comment? "but you're the only one I have to talk to". I told him that was HIS problem, not mine.

He knows he needs NA, went twice, hasn't been back. He knows I am totally against some of his behaviors and I will NOT discuss them I've said what I feel...done.

I am dependent on my dad. Though I work, am in school, I still need his help. However, I will live in my car with my 3 cats rather than deal with subjects that are inappropriate.

It took a while..he kept baiting me and I kept saying "I will not discuss this with you" and as we were usally on the road, put my ear buds in for my mp3 player and shut him out.

I love this man dearly, I am grateful for what he has done for me, but there are some lines I will not cross with him, and it's only thanks to the people here that I've gotten the backbone to stand strong.

He actually thanked me, the other night for what I said to him (read -codie recovery) and said I was like going to an al-anon meeting. I told him "fine, that's good, but I am your DAUGHTER, I am too close to situations and I can't be your backbone"

It's taken me 5+ years to get to this point, TONS of SR, and I still slip and slide. I've just decided that people need to take responsibility for their own actions..I have, my dad needs to. I can't fix it, and if he cuts off support? Hell, I was homeless for years, I will figure out something. I will NOT be the one held responsible for HIS feelings or consequences...that's all on him.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

akrasia

Dear Choublak,

So he's also using the fact that he supports you to manipulate you. (Going to take away the checks!) Is that why you're not blocking his texts?

Look at the finances of this with a dispassionate eye. I bet the amount of time you spend dealing with The Crazy, compared with the amount he gives you, means that you "earn" way less than minimum wage in this "job" of being his punching bag. I.e., not worth it. Pretty much any other job will be a better deal.

Talk to your financial aid office about this. See what the options are for student loans, etc. Students can get food stamps too. Go to your campus women's studies group, students-of-color group (saying so because I believe you said you're of Haitian origin). Don't know enough about your specific finances to give more specific advice, but PM me if you feel like talking about it more.

This isn't a healthy relationship. You have your own life to live.

choublak

I'm not of Haitian origin, not even close LOL, but thanks for the info nonetheless.

akrasia

It was the name that gave me that idea I guess! But you get the picture, I was just brainstorming.

Buffalo66

I see child abuse and controlling, verbally abusive parenting as a disease that people catch. If you were abused, you caught it, and then, it is yur responsibilty to heal it. If you heal it, you do not pass it on. In the case of child abuse, just recognizing it and making the choice to be a different kind of person is more than half the healing.

If you do not heal it, you will most likely pass it on.

My sons daddy, who is my RAH, estranged was terribly abused, mentally, and physically by his mother. She was horribly abused by her mom. Mommy Dearest style abuse. She healed from it, learned about it, got counseling for it, but too too late in life, after her kids were grown and she had already passed on the disease.

My RAH has been eyes wide open about how he was treated as a child, and while he does not seek counseling, he is committed to not overtly abusing our son. That does not mean that he does not harm him inadvertently with his whacky reasoning and neglectful narcississm.

I was abused by my father, sexually and emotionally. Not as much physically, but that was in there. I spent my twenties in therapy, into my thirties. I was so aware, vigilant, even, of my having "caught" something from my dysfunctional family. I worked hard on it, and when I became a mom at 36, I chose to be very vigilant about how I affected my son.

We communicate. We are clear to each other, he has a place to express himself with me, and in counseling. But, I was not healed enough not to get involved with and keep him completely safe from his A dad.

I did my best, will continue to do my best, but...all we can do is keep healing..

I respect my mother in law, who abused her sons with anger and control and violence. I respect her because, even too late, she will openly own that, she is remorseful, but will not let it consume her. She takes my side in almost (ALMOST) all matters, and tries to help him see things more clearly, but...she and the whole family are whacko. Truly.

Ive been with RAH for ten years. It took about 7 of those years for some details about the maternal grandparents of my RAH to come to light. The grandmother was an unforgiving abusive matriarch, snide, sarcastic and vicious.

They all speak of her, even now, ten years after her death with reverance and fear, while all admitting that they were scared to death of her. She was messed up, mysogynistic, teaching them openly her beliefs that women were second class humans and conniving. She severly abused her 3 daughters while elevating her 6 sons to near God like status.

My RAHs' mother was a controlling and strong woman, who inherited the traits of distrust and disrespect of women.

This information is powerful for me, since my RAH obviously has a great draw toward strong women, but hates them viciously at the same time. Its a big diseased group of people. They all carry a little of those traits...

Interesting point: My RAHs brother, my BIL, moved to California at 18, he tells me he had to escape the sick family. He is liberaland educated (Psychology). He is totally aware of the family mess. He does not visit, but for once every few years, and will not stay with the family. HE really healed. He will not pass it on.

choublak

I don't know, now I'm wondering if I was mean lashing out at him like that.

sugarbear1

pages 66-67 of the big book. You are dealing with a sick person, not an alcoholic who is sick, just a person who didn't learn about healthy relationships. If you can talk with him with compassion instead of telling him like it is, his demeanor might change when dealing with you. You have an opportunity to work through your issues, know he is not a well person, and continue on.

"Him: You know you have another set of grand parents too. Grandmom just turned 89 last month and grand dad just turned 84. I'm going to see them today."

A simple response: I'm glad you are visiting your parents.

Move the conversation to another topic. Instead of making him feel as badly as you do (which he won't, except to take it out on you), validate his feelings, don't offer yours.

We often create more problems than we know. My mother won't change, so I now treat her with compassion and just listen. Mom isn't a healthy individual and lives behind rose colored glasses in a world she creates in her mind. I don't offer much about me. I validate her, whether it's right or wrong, but I don't create the problems I used to.

Just a different way to see things here. If we don't create more situations that we have to work through, we might be able to enjoy our own emotional growth and work through our own issues. We still can't make them see what they don't want to see.

Private message me if you want to chat. I may be totally off base here, but it's just something to consider.

Love & hugs,

marie1960

First let me say I am totally against spanking children, add a belt to that equation, and I personally view that person as ignorant and their actions abusive. Children look to their parents for trust, guidance and love. Inflicting such pain on a child destroys that trust. JMO. It also says alot about the parent. Again just my opinion, if a parent looses self control because of the actions and behaviors of a small child, they have zero business being parents. Being a parent is the hardest job I ever had. Of course there were times I wanted to just blow, but I had to control me, get ahold of my emotions, be an adult, before I could discipline them. Any other way is fruitless.

I do not know what your father's issues are, but he certainly is out of control. As long as you continue taking his money, this is how your life is going to be. You are not going to change him. Your relationship with him is the relationship you CHOOSE to have with him. It's all you, you are now an adult.

I see an added frustration in your posts lately. It's obvious you are fed up. I certainly hope you reach out and find some therapy. To not seek help, because it's a money issue, is just an excuse .There are many organizations that offer aid. If you truly want help, you will seek them out in your area.