gplmdyw

Hello Alanoners,

I have decision to make and although in the end God and I will decide, I wonder if I could ask for your experience.

I am the scapegoat in my family and my mother has been getting sicker lately. My father validates her behavior because I absorb everything for him (since I was 12). They are non-drinkers and highly regarded and highly educated, etc. I have stayed very sick from this and can't sleep and have been emotionally exhuasted for years now.

Because I am sick like that, they have been paying my rent and setting me up in nice places for years. I have done a lot of work on myself and it has all pointed me in the direction that I need to give up my comforts and go out on my own and maybe I'll sleep and be able to really start my life over and earn a living, etc. My choices are limited (roommate situation or single room occupancy at 46 years old is not appealing but I'd be free and wouldn't have to be in the chaos/insanity/abuse/rejection/honeymoon cycle anymore.) I feel I am prostituting myself to my father for him to keep me barely surviving. I have no relationships whatsoever because of the exhaustion, I can't show up for life.

My lease is coming to an end and I think they know the status quo is going to end and I am going to "leave" this situation. That has been my plan. I tell myself I can't stand it anymore - how many times do I have to have my mother humiliate me and sabotage my life by inviting other adults in to control me too? Man, is she sick. So my father has offered to buy the house I live in to keep me there and living near them when I have been thinking of going back to the city.

Spiritual teacher says I can't sleep because I need to LET them control me and grow up and accept them. He thinks a job etc will not let me sleep. He said, "I never left my mother and father, they SEEM to have changed because I changed." But my own HP seems to be telling me to get out. To go make a life for myself now.

I don't know which is right. Is it my prideful intolerance of them that needs to go, or should I break free physically? Can I stay in this situation and heal? I have a lot of tools but it's not getting better.

BTW, I don't plan on divorcing them - I just want heavy boundaries set and I want to be the conductor of my own life. They are too sick to set boundaries with in this situation. They just can't do it. They are not willing to get a program of recovery.

EnglishGarden

Medical depression often is the source of poor sleep or inverted circadian rhythm (day sleeping instead of night sleeping). My son had significant medical depression for 4 years and his sleep was very upside down. Often he slept 12-14 hours. (He is well today). Anxiety, I think, kept him up late then he finally crashed and slept. His sleep issues are no more and I think treatment for his illness, and the balm of time, is the reason. Our seasons change.

My mother is not alcoholic but was possessive of me, and I can't imagine living within 100 miles of her, as I think I would be always so tired and sad. People either nourish or deplete us. I love and respect her, but she is depleting because she possesses.

I moved 3000 miles away.

It is important our lives do not become so small and narrow as to be a coffin. If we are entwined with people who choke our spirits the way ivy chokes a tree, we die slowly the way an oak dies.

If you decide to get a small room in the city, then expand your view of life, make your life larger, by perhaps attending four or five meetings a week: Codependents Anonymous, Adult Children of Alcoholics. Their issues are your issues. It will give structure to your daily schedule. And get you out and about.

You can get an enormous pile of self-help books to inspire your growth, find a coffee shop you love, and sit and read and write. That helped me survive a lonely year, in a new city.

It is not necessary to contort your soul's desires in order to live side-by-side with people who will never know or accept you for who you are. I do not believe that your destiny is a small and narrow one and hope you won't either.

We love freedom and growth here at SR!

gplmdyw

I have a really strong program of recovery in AA and ACA and plan to definitely open up my life. There is so much i want to do.

Many adult children do not make it. They die of exhaustion-induced heart attacks etc. What you said here speaks to me: "If we are entwined with people who choke our spirits the way ivy chokes a tree, we die slowly the way an oak dies."

FindingJoy

I also love my mon but have lived at least 2000 miles away from her since I was 17. In addition my visits havevavtime max of 3 nights 4 days with lots of breaks from her energy while I'm visiting.

gplmdyw

I had a sponsor who said she 'ran away' from her mother and went 2000 miles away. She said to me, "it's not the solution. It's a very lonely place. Let me have already done it for you." She said, "Just love them."

I have the tools to do that now. But this victimization thing has to go. The living situation has to change. I have no power over my life at all.

This is what I feel God wants me to do. I may be wrong, but I have to try it.

SoloMio

I just five minutes ago read this great quote by Neville Goddard:

Quote:

"Do not try to change people; they are only messengers telling you who you are. Revalue yourself and they will confirm the change."

Just what you'll hear here a hundred different ways. So stop absorbing the poison and get out and learn to value yourself.

Take care.

gplmdyw

Thanks!

SoaringSpirits

Come up to Santa Rosa, it's a great place to get a new start, and we have some wonderful Al Anon meetings!

It's time for you to break free of your parents, to find your self.
It could be an incredible thing for you, if you let it happen.

akrasia

This is nuts. What sort of spiritual teacher is this? Similarly with the sponsor. This isn't normal family spats we're talking about, this is crippling abuse. The emotional abuse and manipulation from your parents is certainly causing you depression and anxiety. Of course you'd feel better being free and independent! And if you need to break from them, so be it.

Here's a common thing that's not always talked about: there are lots of us who, when we reached adulthood, realised that our parents would never change, would never stop being abusive and inappropriate. So we move away, limit contact, and find a great new freedom in life. That's how it is.

Certainly having a job and a new place will make you feel great. If you're worried about the decline in standard of living: don't be. Just don't. You'll move into a place that's maybe smaller and cruddier than anywhere you've been before. But after a while you'll realise that it's YOURS and you can do whatever you like there. So you won't miss any of the luxuries.

gplmdyw

The point isn't to "run away" physically. It's to simply detach financially and emotionally.
Running away doesn't solve anything. because we take them in our heads with us and it gets bigger. The family of origin issues never really get resolved and so we don't change our underlying patterns. That means we can never truly have healthy, non-codependent relationships. We'll just keep repeating it with others.
I'm grateful my parents are still alive and I have this opportunity to work hard, detach, and live an honest life - both with them and others.

akrasia

But your own inner voice is telling you to move away, quite sensibly. Moving away to a different town (what I take you to mean by "back to the city") can give one a new perspective and a fresh start. Physical distance can also make it more difficult to creepy abusive people to be creepy and abusive towards you. Therefore helps with the physical and emotional attachment. So "running away" physically is actually a great idea in some situations.

And in any case, a depressed 46-year-old who moves to a different town from their parents isn't "running away," they're just living their own life.

Is your spiritual teacher really trying to tell you that you'll be doomed (DOOMED) to have bad relationships with other people if you get a job in the city and move away? I don't like this spiritual teacher.

Hopeworks

Hi GP,

Welcome to SR! I am in alanon and severely affected by extreme dysfunction in my childhood due to alcoholism. My abusive alcoholic father told me I would never amount to anything because I was female ( split tail is what he called us girls).

There were 5 girls and 1 boy and all the girls ended up being overachievers and highly successful (one of my sisters is a state supreme court justice after putting herself through college as a single mother) while my brother became a severe alcoholic (now in recovery).

I became a workaholic...a true addiction... as well as codependent. My little sister shut down similar to you and married young to get out of the house. We all react differently.

I am reluctant to give you any advice because I simply do not have enough information about your family history, potential employability and what would be your best options for the immediate and long term future.

You have a sponsor? Someone well respected in alanon that has taken you through the steps thoroughly? Is your spiritual advisor someone who is mainstream and well respected? The advice you attributed to him is suspect to me...

I strongly, strongly suggest that you seek out a GOOD counselor ...I personally have a fabulous psychologist who also has a divinity degree. I find his counsel to be both wise, educated and spiritual... very, very balanced.

If you have never worked I can tell you the job market is brutal with millions of unemployed. Have you considered school? The right degree (the medical and anti aging field is red hot) can almost guarantee a job. Others are virtually worthless while jobless graduates have hundreds of thousands in debt to repay.

A college a long way a way with financially free parents helping with the bills might work... again... I am in no position to really give you advice without more information about you, your family dynamics and financial postion.

However... you are in my thoughts and prayers and hope you keep coming back and keep us posted on your progress ... we care!

sugarbear1

No one abuses me without my consent.

Have you ever been on your own? When starting out on our own, it is okay to have a room somewhere. Until we can fully pay for our own things, that is how it starts. We can save money and then move into another and larger place.

I think your gut is correct. A spiritual adviser does not tell us how to behave in life or tell us what to do. A spiritual adviser can suggest how to pray or how to work through the unsettling feelings in a spiritual manner. Meditation, or listening, is paramount to a spiritual life. Learning to listen to that voice inside of us, that is where we find a connection to all living things.

"Because I am sick like that" can be changed to "Now that I am healing, I am able to _________." Thinking more positively, behaving more in line with how to live a life on our own.....you don't need to stay away from your parents, but to live on ones' own is a new freedom. Learning to be responsible for ourselves is where we can keep growing, moving forward, and healing more fully.

I hope you work on your answers in some way. Remember to research where you are moving to, find the local supports you need; is there a support group there? If you need any kind of government support (food stamps), is it close by? Are there activities you would like to pursue? Are there some clubs you'd like to join? Doing the work for yourself is wonderful. At 46, your life is just beginning. I know at 51 my life is also just beginning.

I wish you well!
Hugs,

gplmdyw

Akrasia, Thanks. yes, the new place will be mine. What i don't understand is why people think they have to move away from parents. Even if I moved a mile down the road I can still set boundaries by being careful about what I share with my parents.

gplmdyw

I missed this post where you explain it: "Physical distance can also make it more difficult to creepy abusive people to be creepy and abusive towards you."

Also, you had this question: " Is your spiritual teacher really trying to tell you that you'll be doomed (DOOMED) to have bad relationships with other people if you get a job in the city and move away? I don't like this spiritual teacher." He was trying to tell me that running away isn't the problem, but he also can't give me ALL the answers. I know I have to leave the insanity.

gplmdyw

Thank you so much for this. Actually I have made good use of spiritual teacher's experience but have not taken all of it on because I'm very different than him. In other words, he never really expanded his social life and I am very outgoing and a lot younger and want to do things in the world. However, he is right, that we are to honor our mother and father - but with boundaries. Most people think recovery is about what we can GET when it's not. It's about levelling our pride and tolerating the hardest things possible so we can tolerate the rest of the world and do God's work. How would God respond to my parents? He would be lighthearted and loving (without people-pleasing!) but slowly and lovingly let them go. God would show up at most family events and leave when He felt he should. God does not set boundaries out of rigidity and pride - he thinks of the OTHEr person's boundaries. In other words, I don't want to hurt my parents by saving them from their pain that they need to do their own work (or not). So I OBSERVE other people's boundareis.

The other thing is, I am observing God's boundaries too. I want to stay alive so I can work for God. So that is why I am making the choice of cutting financial ties. Many adult children do not make it due to health issues exactly like I'm suffering now.

I have to do what's best in God's eyes.

I don't know if I can work but I will try it. The only thing stopping me is this exhaustion. Other than that, I am extremely capable and have had some fairly high profile jobs until I got sick with this exhaustion 7 years ago. That is when I went thru the steps - yes - extremely thoroughly. My awakening brought me out of denial. Now it's time to recover in the latter steps - physically, meaning my body and my role in God's world physically. For now I'll grab a part-time job and stay on disability to pay the cheap rent I'll have.

thanks and God Bless you too.

NYCDoglvr

You can get enormous support from others in AA and ACA. I've taken many tough steps over the years but never without a recovery buddy (sponsor, friend) I can talk to each step of the way. Recovery is a program of action. We take the steps first and the feelings will follow. You can do this! The post about depression is right on (if you can see a psychiatrist it helps a great deal).

As with every drug (alcohol, codependency, food, whatever) keep the focus in today. You only have to get through today. Try not to project, none of us knows what will happen. God bless

akrasia

You can honour your parents by sending them gifts at birthdays and holidays, and cards at Christmas.

I too was a family scapegoat for whatever reason. I moved away a long time ago and sort of cut everyone off with the exception of cards and phone calls. The physical distance was the perfect "excuse," plus I liked being in a new place. It has saved my sanity and saved my life.

I had a pretty striking experience when I went back to home city to visit my little brother after he had surgery two years ago. I'd been away for fifteen years. Everyone was there. And The Crazy was right where I left it:

1. I spent my first day there in my hotel room getting over a cold I'd got while traveling. Cue step-mother making snide remarks the whole next day about my being a "drama queen."
2. Even more creepy, while I was visiting with my brother in hospital the guy in the next bed didn't have any visitors so brother and I exchanged some pleasantries with him and I once got him a candy bar and a newspaper at the gift shop. Cue my mother making disgusted outraged comments about my "hitting on" the random guy.
3. Due to my deviant behavior (getting newspaper for sick man) and my "making myself the centre of attention" by having a cold, my mother actually telephoned other people and said she did not want me visiting my brother unsupervised.

It was just the kind of thing that went on when I was living at home. Somehow over the years apart I'd found myself thinking, "Surely they're not THAT bad anymore." But HA! Yes, yes they are that bad.

Was I a juvenile delinquent, drug-addicted kid when I lived at home? No, I was president of the honour society, choir member, scholarship-to-college no-boyfriend kid.

But my point is: the whole thing made me so grateful I'd "run away." Seriously, I don't know I'd have any energy to just work and have hobbies and have a normal life (what you might call "doing God's work") if I were always trying to defend myself against The Crazy.

And I do think abusive family crap is much harder to extricate yourself from than the occasional abusive boss or even a dysfunctional partner.

So I offer all this up in hopes that you find it helpful.

gplmdyw

NYCDog, I think I've made it pretty clear I've been through the steps - and in the most thorough way there is. My writings pretty much show that. The latter steps move us into a new dimension of living physically, and that is where I am now.

gplmdyw

[QUOTE=akrasia;3418818]You can honour your parents by sending them gifts at birthdays and holidays, and cards at Christmas.
Exactly what I plan for now. But I do have the tools to show up occasionally, too. I know they were affected by other people and I can tolerate them as long as I know I can go home to my own adult life. My pride can tolerate them.

I too was a family scapegoat for whatever reason. I moved away a long time ago and sort of cut everyone off with the exception of cards and phone calls. The physical distance was the perfect "excuse," plus I liked being in a new place. It has saved my sanity and saved my life.

The rest of my family, well, I don't know about them. I will have to see what time brings. but when we have God and tools, we can tolerate more than we think - WHEN we are ready.

1. I spent my first day there in my hotel room getting over a cold I'd got while traveling. Cue step-mother making snide remarks the whole next day about my being a "drama queen."

Can't you tolerate that? Did she try to strangle you with her bare hands?

2. Even more creepy, while I was visiting with my brother in hospital the guy in the next bed didn't have any visitors so brother and I exchanged some pleasantries with him and I once got him a candy bar and a newspaper at the gift shop. Cue my mother making disgusted outraged comments about my "hitting on" the random guy.

So what? Sticks and stones...

3. Due to my deviant behavior (getting newspaper for sick man) and my "making myself the centre of attention" by having a cold, my mother actually telephoned other people and said she did not want me visiting my brother unsupervised.

If you keep on keepin on with love, patience and tolerance, knowing they're sick, can you picture what that looks like? You quietly go for the purpose you went - to see your little brother. Can anyone arrest you for that? This is all prideful intolerance.

It was just the kind of thing that went on when I was living at home. Somehow over the years apart I'd found myself thinking, "Surely they're not THAT bad anymore." But HA! Yes, yes they are that bad.

Yes - they're sick. Father, forgive them. They know not what they do. But I can do my part and see my little brother. You're letting them win.

Was I a juvenile delinquent, drug-addicted kid when I lived at home? No, I was president of the honour society, choir member, scholarship-to-college no-boyfriend kid.

Have you made amends to them for your part? Did you get up to Step 9? Do you know what your part is? Once you do that, you're free. And no, they probably won't change, but that's not the point. You will be free.

But my point is: the whole thing made me so grateful I'd "run away." Seriously, I don't know I'd have any energy to just work and have hobbies and have a normal life (what you might call "doing God's work") if I were always trying to defend myself against The Crazy.

Working and having a normal life isn't God's work. Helping others heal in fellowship is. Being there for others is. There is nothing "in it" for me. And i become free. God brings me everything I need.

And I do think abusive family crap is much harder to extricate yourself from than the occasional abusive boss or even a dysfunctional partner.

Yes, it is harder because our expectations are deeper. There is more hurt. I expect my boss to control me but having my parents control me at my age is unnatural. There are laws that protect me from other kinds of control but not this kind. I have to change it myself.

So I offer all this up in hopes that you find it helpful.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. I am sorry if I offend you,. I am just using your post to show that the biggest problem with humanism is our Pride won't let us tolerate others.

Where is God in this whole picture?

How would God want us to act? What are His Principles? That is what I learned in AA's Big Book.

As many problems as I am working through, I will use His principels to guide me, not my own self-will.