Anon12

hi, i know this is about us, not the alcoholic, but I am struggling to understand the difference between illness and bad habit - i feel illness takes away the self control of the person and leaves them blameless but I also believe addiction is an illness.

So, my question is, if you have an addictive personality, should you just avoid alcohol altogether or can someone who is abusing alcohol ever have a manageable relationship with it again? I'm trying to work out in my head what I find acceptable to me and a CBT counsellor tried to work with my ABF to get him to manage his drinking but said he could continue to drink. Other people like AA say it's abstinence. Can anyone advise any good books to understand the condition more and suitable treatment?

And before anyone says it, I know it doesn't matter what it is, it's what I'm prepared to tolerate but to come to terms with my situation (leaving ABF), I really feel at the moment I need to understand the problem more.

Thanks

Seren

Good morning, Anon12!

One book that has helped many people (although the science behind it is a bit out-of-date), is "Under the Influence". This link will take you to some excerpts posted within the forum about six years ago.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...influence.html

Another book that some folks recommend is "Getting them Sober".

The idea of whether or not alcoholism is a disease is debated quite a bit. It seems to me that if someone truly struggles with addiction, working to moderate drinking would be a much harder battle than obstaining altogether. Since I've been here, I've seen many threads begun in the Newcomers and Alcoholism forums about moderation--and I've seen the moderation plans fail about 99% of the time.

Good luck in your search!

Anon12

Thank you - I've read Getting Them Sober and that helped but I think I know deep down he shouldn't drink. It's just not worth the risk. Will try Under The Influence. Thanks!

Seren

((Anon12)) I hope you will keep in mind that reading all this literature is for you. Even if you hand it off to him to read, he won't change unless and until he is ready to change.

My husband would give his son quite a few things to read early on, but none of it made a dent in his son's addiction.

Didn't cause it.
Can't control it.
Can't cure him.

EnglishGarden

Early in the disease the alcoholic is unaware he has a problem. Denial prevents him from seeing his drinking is out of control. As the disease progresses, however, and negative consequences pile up, the alcoholic begins to think he's just not drinking the right way, so he tries to negotiate with alcohol and to keep drinking but avoid any further negative consequences. He makes bargains with himself: "I won't drink before 11 a.m." "I'll only drink beer and not hard liquor." "I'll only drink on Sundays." Etc. He also begins to blame things outside himself for all the problems which have their root in alcoholism. The alcoholic blames the boss because the alcoholic is unhappy in his job. The wife because the alcoholic is unhappy in his marriage. The children because the alcoholic is unhappy in his home. He thinks it's a job, wife or kids problem. But it is an alcohol problem. If your abf does not get sober, he will always find someone to blame for his problems. If the CBT doesn't work, he'll blame the CBT. And the counselor.

Addiction is a disease of obsession and compulsion. The mind is obsessed with alcohol and eventually the alcoholic loses control and compulsively drinks. He finds himself drinking when he never intended to and in places he never thought he would. As soon as he takes the first drink, he loses control of how many drinks will follow. The founder of AA, Bill W. tried for years and years to stop his compulsive drinking but failed again and again, in spite of the tragic consequences of his drinking.

It has been described as a switch in the brain that is permanently thrown. Once that switch of addiction is thrown, the person never goes back. He is an addict and will remain so.

It is a "chronic, relapsing disease" as described by the AMA. And the person whose responsibility it is to seek treatment for that is the alcoholic. He is not helpless. He is powerless to change his brain. But he is not helpless to seek treatment.

Some people just abuse alcohol and do not have the permanent condition known as addiction. They party for some years and then they quit. If they suffer negative consequences because of drinking--they do something stupid they regret or they get a DUI--they quit. It isn't a struggle. They don't need help. It's easy.

But someone who protects his drinking, defends his drinking, tries to negotiate his drinking in spite of continuing negative consequences....he has a committed, obsessive, addicted relationship with alcohol. It will deepen, it will progress, and the consequences will mount. But he won't quit. He will blame everyone and everything else for his chaos.

Someone with addictive disease should not use any substance with addictive potential. The substance triggers the addictive brain. The obsession and the compulsion. The loss of control. If someone knows he is an addict and uses an addictive substance anyway, he is responsible for making that choice rather actively seeking recovery, which is total abstinence from all mind-altering substances.

If your abf is looking for ways to continue drinking, and has found a counselor who thinks he knows how to help an alcoholic keep drinking, then you are right to leave your abf. Because your abf is not done. And the train wreck is just around the corner.

You might pick up a copy of "The Addictive Personality" by Craig Nakken.

Wishing you a healthy life free of active alcoholism.

suki44883

Thank you, English Garden. That is the best description of alcohol addiction I have ever read here. You were spot on and I say this as a recovering alcoholic. Thank you.

Spes

Anon12,

hydrogirl gave excellent reading recommendations and EnglishGarden did the same along with a very articulate description. I know exactly how you feel because, like you, I'm prepared to tolerate but to come to terms with my situation (staying with AW), I really feel at the moment I need to understand the problem more.

I have noticed that whatever decisions we may make regarding ourselves and our codependence, the ultimate goal is peace without feeling guilty. I think that knowledge is the key to that goal. This is why EnglishGarden's post can be so helpful both to you who is leaving your ABF, to me who is choosing to stay with my AW, and to suki who is an RA. Different paths; same goal.

Anon12, I cling to all the books I can read and to all the posts on this board like a life vest to a drowning person. As of this moment there are 2,558,449 posts on this board and everyone one of them will satisfy my need to understand the problem more. I know you need to wrap your head around your decisions and you will.

Thank you anon12, and hydrogirl, and EnglishGarden for throwing the life vest to me.

Anon12

Thanks - englishgarden that is really helpful. My ABF is no longer getting CBT - that was last year and didn't work. He then tried will power alone , also didn't work and then more recently AA. He went to meetings but during relapses he called his sponsor after them, not before...

One more question! How do you know when someone has started proper recovery, if you don't see them for a while - is it only obvious when you live with someone or are there signs? I feel I would know my ABF was taking his recovery seriously when his finances are more in order, his job is on an even keel but I guess I will never know?

DesertEyes

Hello Anon12, and pleased to "meet" you

That is the way I used to think, but I found out that it does not work that way. What worked for me is to think of it in terms of some other person with some other disease. I happen to have a heart condition, so I am going to use that as an example.

Suppose a man has a heart condition. The doctors tell him to take certain medications, change his eating habits, excercise, and so on. The man decides the doctors are fools and he is going to do as he pleases. No meds, lots of pizza, lots of TV.

The man goes to work, gets in a forklift, is driving it around the warehouse when he has sudden chest pains. He loses control of the forklift and it crashes into a group of people, injuring some and killing one.

The man has an illness. If the man follows doctors orders he will be fine. If the man does as he pleases he will hurt others, and himself. The heart condition does _not_ leave the man blameless. Not at all. It is only _after_ the man decides not to follow doctors orders that the chemistry of his heart takes over and he loses control of the forklift.

Alcoholism is no different. Doctors orders for alcoholism are : don't drink and get into whatever "program" helps you not drink. If the alkie _chooses_ to ignore those instructions they are _not_ blameless, they have a choice. If the alkie chooses to pick up a drink then the chemistry of alcohol in his brain takes over and he loses control of everything.

A disease does not make anybody blameless. It's the opposite, it makes them responsible for insuring their disease is kept under control.

Mike

changeschoices

Yes. While my XBF is an alcoholic primarily, he has also been known to drink AND smoke pot, take klonopin, xanax, ativan, codeine, cocaine, and whatever else he can get his hands on. I think he may have even done crack with his brother.

My AX tried to moderate his drinking. Each attempt at moderation lasted no more than two weeks before he binged.

NYCDoglvr

I've been sober for 20 years and have never heard of one instance of an alcoholic being able to drink non-alcoholically.

Alcoholism is classified as a mental illness by the American Medical Association. Alcoholics can not drink but once they pick up a drink, they are incapable of controlling their intake and what happens. It's also a progressive disease.

I suggest you seriously start reading about the disease of alcoholism, especially the medical perspective.

Anon12

Thanks all - that makes sense re: illness and being open to treating it. How do you know though if someone has decided to get help? Or is taking it seriously?

dollydo

Soooo, what are you doing for you? Your recovery from codependency?

Anon12

Im going to al anon, counselling and reading up on how I can change. I have told my ABF I don't want to see him until he has spent a year sorting himself out, staying sober. I'm just wary of signs that this has happened, if there even are any?

dollydo

"Im going to al anon, counselling and reading up on how I can change."

Good for you, believe me, you will know, the healthier you get, the easier it will be to identify soberity and long term recovery. In the meantime, don't obsess about it, a year is the benchmark, although, he will be an addict all his life, this disease has no cure, it is just a matter of whether he is sober and working a strong recovery program or not...that's it...and, relapses are common even after years and years. I have a friend who relapsed after 20 years!