There is no magic bullet...
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 15
There is no magic bullet...
I doubt I'm ever going to 'recover'. Let's face it--most of us don't.
I have been an AA member for the last eleven months. I have done everything suggested, including getting a home group, attending meetings, completing a 90 in 90 (twice), getting a sponsor, reading the books, committing to service, doing service, working the steps, etc...
And, of course, praying. Even when I wonder whom the heck I'm supposed to be praying to. I'm stuck on Step Three, as I have not had the 'spiritual awakening' yet, so have made my group the Higher Power, as suggested.
I've also been on Lexapro, which was suppsed to help with cravings, but did not.
Outside of AA, I attend two hospital-supervised groups weekly (Seeking Safety and Cognitive Behaviour for Addicts). I also see a psychiatrist and a counsellor two to three times a week.
I in no way blame anyone else for my weakness. Higher-Power-of-Your choice knows I've been blessed by these resources.
But the fact is I keep ******* up. Yeah, I've gotten my one-month chip, my two-month chip, and even my three-month chip. But the relapses are getting ridiculous. In the end I always choose booze.
The 'merciless obsession' hasn't been lifted, no matter how many times I try to recite the Serenity Prayer or 'Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow'.
I don't know if it's a genuine disease or a weakness of character. Or simply the fact that I can't genuinely embrace the concept of a loving God. What I do know is that most of us fail. Myself included. Again and again.
Can't we just get honest about the fact that the overwhelming majority of us are doomed?
I have been an AA member for the last eleven months. I have done everything suggested, including getting a home group, attending meetings, completing a 90 in 90 (twice), getting a sponsor, reading the books, committing to service, doing service, working the steps, etc...
And, of course, praying. Even when I wonder whom the heck I'm supposed to be praying to. I'm stuck on Step Three, as I have not had the 'spiritual awakening' yet, so have made my group the Higher Power, as suggested.
I've also been on Lexapro, which was suppsed to help with cravings, but did not.
Outside of AA, I attend two hospital-supervised groups weekly (Seeking Safety and Cognitive Behaviour for Addicts). I also see a psychiatrist and a counsellor two to three times a week.
I in no way blame anyone else for my weakness. Higher-Power-of-Your choice knows I've been blessed by these resources.
But the fact is I keep ******* up. Yeah, I've gotten my one-month chip, my two-month chip, and even my three-month chip. But the relapses are getting ridiculous. In the end I always choose booze.
The 'merciless obsession' hasn't been lifted, no matter how many times I try to recite the Serenity Prayer or 'Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow'.
I don't know if it's a genuine disease or a weakness of character. Or simply the fact that I can't genuinely embrace the concept of a loving God. What I do know is that most of us fail. Myself included. Again and again.
Can't we just get honest about the fact that the overwhelming majority of us are doomed?
Last edited by muffinhead; 05-15-2012 at 08:47 PM. Reason: additional info
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,371
I can't agree with you muffinhead.
I've been here daily for 5 plus years...I've spoken with thousands of people....I don't think anyone is doomed or without hope...unless they decide they are.
I really encourage you not to give up - maybe the answer is other sponsors, other meetings, more participation here ... ?
welcome back
D
I've been here daily for 5 plus years...I've spoken with thousands of people....I don't think anyone is doomed or without hope...unless they decide they are.
I really encourage you not to give up - maybe the answer is other sponsors, other meetings, more participation here ... ?
welcome back
D
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 889
Muffinhead... I hear your frustration. I have been told by MANY AA guys that the mental obsession leaves somewhere between 6 and 18 months. I personally made it to 6 months and it never left. I drank again after 6 months of sobriety. I have buddies who were in the same boat as me that have made (now have 18 month to 2 years) and they tell me that it did go away.
I was told by a guy in AA that I respect very much - "Don't quit before the miracle happens". I like that saying a lot.
Also, I (and it sounds like you) did not make it through the steps. Another buddy of mine says this...
"Half measures don't get us half of the promises. Half measures give us none of the promises".
All I'm saying is hang in there. Saying things like "most of us our doomed" doesn't help you. Some would say that's your disease talking others would say it's your beast talking... whatever... the bottom line is that type of thinking is not in your best interest.
Just keep going man...
I'll leave you with one last quote from another AA guy. "If you're having a bad day, just go to bed earlier".
So simple but yet so true.
I was told by a guy in AA that I respect very much - "Don't quit before the miracle happens". I like that saying a lot.
Also, I (and it sounds like you) did not make it through the steps. Another buddy of mine says this...
"Half measures don't get us half of the promises. Half measures give us none of the promises".
All I'm saying is hang in there. Saying things like "most of us our doomed" doesn't help you. Some would say that's your disease talking others would say it's your beast talking... whatever... the bottom line is that type of thinking is not in your best interest.
Just keep going man...
I'll leave you with one last quote from another AA guy. "If you're having a bad day, just go to bed earlier".
So simple but yet so true.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
Posts: 8,997
All those good things happen when you work the 12 steps...You are on step 3...Do you know how you work step 3?...By working steps 4 thru 12. Maybe you are looking in the wrong place for God...I like how they put it in the book.
Actually we were fooling ourselves, for deep down in every man, woman, and child, is the fundamental idea of God. It may be obscured by calamity, by pomp, by worship of other things, but in some form or other it is there. For faith in a Power greater than ourselves, and miraculous demonstrations of that power in human lives, are facts as old as man himself.
We finally saw that faith in some kind of God was a part of our make-up, just as much as the feeling we have for a friend. Sometimes we had to search fearlessly, but He was there. He was as much a fact as we were. We found the Great Reality deep down within us. In the last analysis it is only there that He may be found. It was so with us.
Try looking inside yourself.
all BB quotes-1st. Edition
Actually we were fooling ourselves, for deep down in every man, woman, and child, is the fundamental idea of God. It may be obscured by calamity, by pomp, by worship of other things, but in some form or other it is there. For faith in a Power greater than ourselves, and miraculous demonstrations of that power in human lives, are facts as old as man himself.
We finally saw that faith in some kind of God was a part of our make-up, just as much as the feeling we have for a friend. Sometimes we had to search fearlessly, but He was there. He was as much a fact as we were. We found the Great Reality deep down within us. In the last analysis it is only there that He may be found. It was so with us.
Try looking inside yourself.
all BB quotes-1st. Edition
Last edited by Dee74; 05-15-2012 at 09:35 PM.
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Originally Posted by muffinhead 
I have been an AA member for the last eleven months. I have done everything suggested, including getting a home group, attending meetings, completing a 90 in 90 (twice), getting a sponsor, reading the books, committing to service, doing service, working the steps, etc...
And, of course, praying. Even when I wonder whom the heck I'm supposed to be praying to. I'm stuck on Step Three, as I have not had the 'spiritual awakening' yet, so have made my group the Higher Power, as suggested.
I've also been on Lexapro, which was suppsed to help with cravings, but did not.
Outside of AA, I attend two hospital-supervised groups weekly (Seeking Safety and Cognitive Behaviour for Addicts). I also see a psychiatrist and a counsellor two to three times a week.
I in no way blame anyone else for my weakness. Higher-Power-of-Your choice knows I've been blessed by these resources.
And, of course, praying. Even when I wonder whom the heck I'm supposed to be praying to. I'm stuck on Step Three, as I have not had the 'spiritual awakening' yet, so have made my group the Higher Power, as suggested.
I've also been on Lexapro, which was suppsed to help with cravings, but did not.
Outside of AA, I attend two hospital-supervised groups weekly (Seeking Safety and Cognitive Behaviour for Addicts). I also see a psychiatrist and a counsellor two to three times a week.
I in no way blame anyone else for my weakness. Higher-Power-of-Your choice knows I've been blessed by these resources.
I've not seen someone work all the steps not get lightyears better.... Hit the 12-step area up and ask for some help with 3....... (I'll suggest that your problem isn't 3 though, it's step ONE.)
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 694
Maybe you should try something other than AA, its not for everyone, I personaly do not adhere to any particular program, but i do take what works from some and leave what dosnt behind, it might be a longer road but if I just never drink again I have the time to walk it.
Have you ever made up your mind to never drink again, ever? Without any 'if's' in place, if so how does it make you feel? If 'just for today' isnt working, how about 'never for forever'?
Have you ever made up your mind to never drink again, ever? Without any 'if's' in place, if so how does it make you feel? If 'just for today' isnt working, how about 'never for forever'?
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Hate to nit-pick...... but if one isn't doing it, what is it that's "not working" - the program or the worker? For a lot of ppl in AA, that line right before the steps is dead on: half measures availed us nothing Some can take parts, leave others, do some, mix it up......... many of us have to do the whole deal though. No ifs, and, or buts about it. And frankly, AA was designed just for the folks who HAVE to do the whole deal.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,960
Step 3 is a decision to move on to steps 4-9, like Sapling suggested. My spiritual awakening did happen after steps 6 & 7, which were done the night after my 6 hour step 5 was completed, the first time through the steps.
You will be under the care of a power greater than you so you can move through steps 4-9.
No burning bushes, just a new perspective!
Please get through steps 4 5 6 7, then by doing 8 & 9 (keep step 4 for step 8), you will know a New Freedom.....
You CAN do this!
Love,
You will be under the care of a power greater than you so you can move through steps 4-9.
No burning bushes, just a new perspective!
Please get through steps 4 5 6 7, then by doing 8 & 9 (keep step 4 for step 8), you will know a New Freedom.....
You CAN do this!
Love,
Sober Alcoholic
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,539
You sound like me in early sobriety. Having trouble with the God thing. Relapse after relapse. Never getting much beyond 3 months. 90 days or slightly more was like an invisible barrier.
Then one day I found myself in a meeting and I said to myself “why am I here ?”. It seemed like a lot of the same old talk from the same old people. I really had trouble answering the question that I had posed to myself. Then I remembered what I had been thinking just before the meeting. I had decided to go more because I thought I might be able to contribute something than because I thought I would get something out of it for myself. I had thought "perhaps I can say something that might help someone". Then, moments later, I realized that I currently had right around 4 months sobriety (the longest ever till that point) . I thought a lot about that during that meeting. It seemed to me the two things were connected. Putting my focus outside of myself was helping to keep me sober.
It’s interesting that I still recall that internal dialogue so plainly all these years later. I think it's because I believed I was on to something. Now I know I was.
Then one day I found myself in a meeting and I said to myself “why am I here ?”. It seemed like a lot of the same old talk from the same old people. I really had trouble answering the question that I had posed to myself. Then I remembered what I had been thinking just before the meeting. I had decided to go more because I thought I might be able to contribute something than because I thought I would get something out of it for myself. I had thought "perhaps I can say something that might help someone". Then, moments later, I realized that I currently had right around 4 months sobriety (the longest ever till that point) . I thought a lot about that during that meeting. It seemed to me the two things were connected. Putting my focus outside of myself was helping to keep me sober.
It’s interesting that I still recall that internal dialogue so plainly all these years later. I think it's because I believed I was on to something. Now I know I was.
...not falling down them
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,200
Originally Posted by muffinhead
I doubt I'm ever going to 'recover'. Let's face it--most of us don't....
...What I do know is that most of us fail. Myself included. Again and again.
...Can't we just get honest about the fact that the overwhelming majority of us are doomed?
...What I do know is that most of us fail. Myself included. Again and again.
...Can't we just get honest about the fact that the overwhelming majority of us are doomed?
You're saying we should accept failure and be doomed. I don't buy it.
I watched the most delightful movie lately, it's called "Interstate 60". It's about the truths in life being on the roads that are not on the map. I found it inspiring. Check it out, maybe you will too.
Hang in there! Hugs to you.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,469
I disagree with your belief that the majority of alcoholics are doomed. I definitely do not believe that. If I did, I probably wouldn't be here.
It could be that you need to make a major shift in your thinking. If that is what you believe, then that could be the outcome. I believe that our thoughts create our future.
It could be that you need to make a major shift in your thinking. If that is what you believe, then that could be the outcome. I believe that our thoughts create our future.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
i was once doomed. by the grace of God of my understanding, the fellowship to teach me how to work the program, and footwork in changing me and my thinking, i am recovered from the hopeless state of mind thah made me drink.
here are some things from the BB
"...their ideals must be grounded in a power greater than themselves, if they are to re-create their lives."
"....unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of his recovery."
"...once a psychic change has occurred, the very same person who seemed doomed who had so many problems he dispaired of ever solving them, suddenly finds himself easily able to control his desire for alcohol. the only effort necessary being that required to follow a few simple rules."
" when we became alcoholics, crushed by a self imposed crisis we could no postpone or evade, we had to FEARLESSLY face the proposition that God is everything or else He is nothing. God either is. or He isnt. what was our choice?"
now heres a big one for me:"" we trust infinite God rather than out finite selves." this tells me God of my understanding has it all and people dont, so making a homegroup or another person my higher power is not a god idea.( i still havent found in the BB where it says a person or homegroup as a higher power is ok).
And, of course, praying. Even when I wonder whom the heck I'm supposed to be praying to. I'm stuck on Step Three,
are you sure you are on step 3?
have you worked your sponsor to the point he should earn combat pay? has your sponsor been guiding you through the BB?
here are some things from the BB
"...their ideals must be grounded in a power greater than themselves, if they are to re-create their lives."
"....unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of his recovery."
"...once a psychic change has occurred, the very same person who seemed doomed who had so many problems he dispaired of ever solving them, suddenly finds himself easily able to control his desire for alcohol. the only effort necessary being that required to follow a few simple rules."
" when we became alcoholics, crushed by a self imposed crisis we could no postpone or evade, we had to FEARLESSLY face the proposition that God is everything or else He is nothing. God either is. or He isnt. what was our choice?"
now heres a big one for me:"" we trust infinite God rather than out finite selves." this tells me God of my understanding has it all and people dont, so making a homegroup or another person my higher power is not a god idea.( i still havent found in the BB where it says a person or homegroup as a higher power is ok).
And, of course, praying. Even when I wonder whom the heck I'm supposed to be praying to. I'm stuck on Step Three,
are you sure you are on step 3?
have you worked your sponsor to the point he should earn combat pay? has your sponsor been guiding you through the BB?
Member of SMART Recovery
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,722
I certainly do not believe that most of us are doomed. I agree that it is hard to quit an addiction and that the physical cravings last a long time for some of us.
Beyond that, I absolutely do not believe that your current state of mind is the result of working a "bad" AA program; frankly, it sounds to me as though you are doing exactly what you are supposed to do in AA. It may simply be that AA isn't the right path for you, as it was not for me. Perhaps focus on the support you get here, or check out some of the alternative pathways. My own is SMART Recovery. (You may particularly want to check us out because we have numerous tools to assist with cravings.)
Beyond that, I absolutely do not believe that your current state of mind is the result of working a "bad" AA program; frankly, it sounds to me as though you are doing exactly what you are supposed to do in AA. It may simply be that AA isn't the right path for you, as it was not for me. Perhaps focus on the support you get here, or check out some of the alternative pathways. My own is SMART Recovery. (You may particularly want to check us out because we have numerous tools to assist with cravings.)
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 176
I've felt like that many many times... In fact, I sometimes wonder if the mental obsession WILL ever fade.
In the end I don't know, but I do know, that I think about it less now at 5 months sober than I did at 1 month.
Also, while this may not be healthy, it has helped me stay sober... I've been replacing my alcohol with other addictions, such as the gym or video games.
Sometimes when things get tough, I will tell myself, "the instant I think about alcohol, get in the car and drive to the gym" ... whether I feel like it or not, have a headache etc... I just DO IT, right then and there. By the time I'm done... I don't have the same thought process.
Like I said, it may not be healthy, but at this point, I'm willing to try and shoot the moon down with a BB gun to stay sober.
EDIT: I will generally call my sponsor too, and we go to the gym together lol. He's a great guy.
In the end I don't know, but I do know, that I think about it less now at 5 months sober than I did at 1 month.
Also, while this may not be healthy, it has helped me stay sober... I've been replacing my alcohol with other addictions, such as the gym or video games.
Sometimes when things get tough, I will tell myself, "the instant I think about alcohol, get in the car and drive to the gym" ... whether I feel like it or not, have a headache etc... I just DO IT, right then and there. By the time I'm done... I don't have the same thought process.
Like I said, it may not be healthy, but at this point, I'm willing to try and shoot the moon down with a BB gun to stay sober.
EDIT: I will generally call my sponsor too, and we go to the gym together lol. He's a great guy.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
I once told an addictions therapist that I felt like normies seem to have no hurdles to jump in life. She said that of course they have hurdles to jump, but that I (an alcoholic with a very dysfunctional childhood family) have a few more hurdles to jump than they do.
Contrary to being unhappy with that answer, it helped me. I DO have more hurdles to jump than others.
Muffinhead, I can take your history in recovery and multiply it times 3: I have a similar experience to yours and I spent years doing what you describe, not months. I think what finally got me to the threshold of recovery was patience: I wouldn't give up.
I would also direct you to appendix II in the BB fourth edition: which explains that not all of us will have a spiritual awakening, but instead may experience a long term process of spiritual growth. I have not had a spiritual awakening in a dramatic moment, but have had an incredible experience with spiritual growth over the last 2.5 years. I base my growth on reading a wide array of books that are not BTW AA related, but spiritually related. And, the BB recommends doing that as well.
I agree that this is probably a discussion for the 12 step forum, but I would like to add one last point: I didn't feel strong with my step 3 either. I felt that I had a very weak connection with a higher power, but I moved on to the rest of the steps anyway. You will have a chance in step 11 to reconnect and re-affirm step 3. So, in agreement with the rest of the folks I would also recommend moving on with your step work.
I also thought I would never get sober, and even had dark thoughts like you refer to, "doomed". but I made it into the light, you can too.
Contrary to being unhappy with that answer, it helped me. I DO have more hurdles to jump than others.
Muffinhead, I can take your history in recovery and multiply it times 3: I have a similar experience to yours and I spent years doing what you describe, not months. I think what finally got me to the threshold of recovery was patience: I wouldn't give up.
I would also direct you to appendix II in the BB fourth edition: which explains that not all of us will have a spiritual awakening, but instead may experience a long term process of spiritual growth. I have not had a spiritual awakening in a dramatic moment, but have had an incredible experience with spiritual growth over the last 2.5 years. I base my growth on reading a wide array of books that are not BTW AA related, but spiritually related. And, the BB recommends doing that as well.
I agree that this is probably a discussion for the 12 step forum, but I would like to add one last point: I didn't feel strong with my step 3 either. I felt that I had a very weak connection with a higher power, but I moved on to the rest of the steps anyway. You will have a chance in step 11 to reconnect and re-affirm step 3. So, in agreement with the rest of the folks I would also recommend moving on with your step work.
I also thought I would never get sober, and even had dark thoughts like you refer to, "doomed". but I made it into the light, you can too.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
AA is not for everyone while it works a treat for lots of folks, that's true. It wasn't for me, that's for sure.
Don't stop looking for your answer Muffinhead (that is a term of endearment I use with my daughters btw). You might find the key by looking at our Secular Connections forum. That is the SR place for alternatives to 12 step recovery programs like AA, and there are many.
The essential requirement is the drive to quit alcohol, and to never stop. There is a beautiful serene life waiting for you, chock full of tiny pleasures and joys that make life wonderful. Keep posting, Muffinhead, there is a lot of support here, just for you.
Don't stop looking for your answer Muffinhead (that is a term of endearment I use with my daughters btw). You might find the key by looking at our Secular Connections forum. That is the SR place for alternatives to 12 step recovery programs like AA, and there are many.
The essential requirement is the drive to quit alcohol, and to never stop. There is a beautiful serene life waiting for you, chock full of tiny pleasures and joys that make life wonderful. Keep posting, Muffinhead, there is a lot of support here, just for you.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 176
Originally Posted by freshstart57
AA is not for everyone while it works a treat for lots of folks, that's true. It wasn't for me, that's for sure.
Don't stop looking for your answer Muffinhead (that is a term of endearment I use with my daughters btw). You might find the key by looking at our Secular Connections forum. That is the SR place for alternatives to 12 step recovery programs like AA, and there are many.
The essential requirement is the drive to quit alcohol, and to never stop. There is a beautiful serene life waiting for you, chock full of tiny pleasures and joys that make life wonderful. Keep posting, Muffinhead, there is a lot of support here, just for you.
Don't stop looking for your answer Muffinhead (that is a term of endearment I use with my daughters btw). You might find the key by looking at our Secular Connections forum. That is the SR place for alternatives to 12 step recovery programs like AA, and there are many.
The essential requirement is the drive to quit alcohol, and to never stop. There is a beautiful serene life waiting for you, chock full of tiny pleasures and joys that make life wonderful. Keep posting, Muffinhead, there is a lot of support here, just for you.
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