Psychopath
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Psychopath
An earlier thread by English Garden got me thinking about narcissism and psychopathy. I really think my ABF is a psychopath/sociopath, if not, he is certainly narcissistic. Not sure if they are one in the same. I have never met anyone who is so cold and calculated and remorseless. Check out this link. My ABF fits almost every single one of these traits to a T.
Profile of the Sociopath
Link to Profile of the Sociopath
Profile of the Sociopath
Link to Profile of the Sociopath
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My ex could fit into the criteria of a million different mental illnesses. It's not my job to diagnose him or obsess over his issues, it's irrelevant and doesn't change the fact of his crazy behaviour. JMO!
Also I think the large majority of addicts would fit into that link which you posted, I suspect one would have to be clean and sober for an extended period before this personality disorder could be considered.
Also I think the large majority of addicts would fit into that link which you posted, I suspect one would have to be clean and sober for an extended period before this personality disorder could be considered.
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This topic/comparison comes up quite regularly around here.
While it's true, some people in active addiction do manifest the same behaviors as someone who is a sociopath....
.....not all of those who suffer from addiction ARE sociopaths.
While it's true, some people in active addiction do manifest the same behaviors as someone who is a sociopath....
.....not all of those who suffer from addiction ARE sociopaths.
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english i still live w/ him ... use the term abf loosely at this point. dolly crazy works .. but i think my A would fit the criteria sober of not.
windmills - we all assess what we think is wrong w/ the A's in our life, at least before we get the skills to leave - to try to make sense of the pain we are going through.
my A has a ton of narcissitic/sociopath tendencies. I have known a lot of ppl with addiction and most are remorseful for the pain they cause their families. My A seriously does not care in the least if he affects people. He is cold and calculating to a disturbing level I have never seen before in another human being.
windmills - we all assess what we think is wrong w/ the A's in our life, at least before we get the skills to leave - to try to make sense of the pain we are going through.
my A has a ton of narcissitic/sociopath tendencies. I have known a lot of ppl with addiction and most are remorseful for the pain they cause their families. My A seriously does not care in the least if he affects people. He is cold and calculating to a disturbing level I have never seen before in another human being.
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Well, I have a lease right now. I am planning to get out once it is up. I hope I have the courage to follow through this next time. I have attempted to leave many times, but his mother has always talked me into staying. I was going to leave during my pregnancy, right before and after I gave birth and a couple times thereafter. I understand that it is my fault for not listening to my head. His mom always tells me how much he loves me. Pretty weird in my opinion. Shouldn't it be he that declares his love for me, not his mom? LOL. I mean he has said those words but I have never felt like he meant them, not once. Anyways, she has bullied me into staying with him countless times and tries to manipulate me by saying she will help him fight for custody of our son and what not. She is very possessive of my child in an almost weird way. I have to give her the benefit of the doubt in that it is her only grandchild. Her other son doesn't want kids, and I don't think my ABF does either.
There is a dynamic to her relationship with my boyfriend that is unhealthy. She completely enables him and I think it is due to the fact that she abandoned him when he was 18 months and saw him sporadically growing up. He mentioned that a few times he would be waiting with his bags packed and she wouldn't show up. So now she is in his life, but enables and makes excuses and fixes all his problems (including me) constantly. My point is I think he became very detached due to this trauma. His dad said he cried for almost 6 months straight after his mom left him as an infant. His dad (whom supports me and I like a lot) says my ABF is a very selfish person and has always made selfish choices. That is why I am starting to believe he has narcissistic/sociopathic tendencies. I don't think he is a serial killer or anything like that or would even intentionally hurt someone. He actually loves animals and is gentle with them (maybe more so than his fellow humans) I think he experienced deep emotional wounds as an infant and the result is him present day. Do I think it is sad, YES. I think for a long time I thought I could fill that emptiness but the more I know him the more I realize I have never been in a deep relationship with him. Everything, even after five years, is at surface level. He doesn't talk about any feelings and seems to have only two or three emotions.... rage, haughtiness, and glibness. He acts like he is happy by giving the appearance of a weird smile (it is hard to describe this smile) but there never seems to be any true emotion behind his actions. I didn't come to the conclusion that he was narcissistic lightly and I have read tons of books on alcoholism, verbal abuse, narcissism. I know narcissism is a condition for sociopathic tendencies as well. I know many addicts are narcissistic as well. I don't want to believe it, really, I truly don't. I want to believe that my love and my son's love can change him, but I digress, I can't change anyone.
Maybe, if he were to get sober, he'd be different. I don't know. I have never really known him sober, ever. He was drunk the day I met him. He lived at the beach and everyone partied down there so I didn't really consider the fact he was drunk when we met at all. I have never had any experiences with an alcoholic in a r/s sense. He relapsed back into drugs after that, got off drugs and back on the alcohol. Maybe his feelings are just numb because of the drugs and hurt and there is a decent human being in there. I hope there is for my son's sake. I am not a psychiatrist. I am just an observer.
Thanks for listening.
There is a dynamic to her relationship with my boyfriend that is unhealthy. She completely enables him and I think it is due to the fact that she abandoned him when he was 18 months and saw him sporadically growing up. He mentioned that a few times he would be waiting with his bags packed and she wouldn't show up. So now she is in his life, but enables and makes excuses and fixes all his problems (including me) constantly. My point is I think he became very detached due to this trauma. His dad said he cried for almost 6 months straight after his mom left him as an infant. His dad (whom supports me and I like a lot) says my ABF is a very selfish person and has always made selfish choices. That is why I am starting to believe he has narcissistic/sociopathic tendencies. I don't think he is a serial killer or anything like that or would even intentionally hurt someone. He actually loves animals and is gentle with them (maybe more so than his fellow humans) I think he experienced deep emotional wounds as an infant and the result is him present day. Do I think it is sad, YES. I think for a long time I thought I could fill that emptiness but the more I know him the more I realize I have never been in a deep relationship with him. Everything, even after five years, is at surface level. He doesn't talk about any feelings and seems to have only two or three emotions.... rage, haughtiness, and glibness. He acts like he is happy by giving the appearance of a weird smile (it is hard to describe this smile) but there never seems to be any true emotion behind his actions. I didn't come to the conclusion that he was narcissistic lightly and I have read tons of books on alcoholism, verbal abuse, narcissism. I know narcissism is a condition for sociopathic tendencies as well. I know many addicts are narcissistic as well. I don't want to believe it, really, I truly don't. I want to believe that my love and my son's love can change him, but I digress, I can't change anyone.
Maybe, if he were to get sober, he'd be different. I don't know. I have never really known him sober, ever. He was drunk the day I met him. He lived at the beach and everyone partied down there so I didn't really consider the fact he was drunk when we met at all. I have never had any experiences with an alcoholic in a r/s sense. He relapsed back into drugs after that, got off drugs and back on the alcohol. Maybe his feelings are just numb because of the drugs and hurt and there is a decent human being in there. I hope there is for my son's sake. I am not a psychiatrist. I am just an observer.
Thanks for listening.
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This set of "Cluster B" personality disorders are all closely related. If you're involved with a person that fits the bill, they will have a lot of overlap especially between narcissism and anti-social personality disorder. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out whether my X was a sociopath or "just" a narcissist, when in the end the resulting trauma to me and our son was the same. The labels were useful in that they gave me something to call the problem -- the problem being his behavior towards me and our son -- and if I was able to find the right resources, how to deal with and think about some of his behavior.
But all the obsessing and wondering and cataloging of his behaviors was crazy-making. With reflection, I think it's probably my years tangled up in his craziness that primed me to enter a relationship with an active A.
So while I definitely think it's helpful to be able to categorize his behavior as bad, maladjusted and unsafe, I wouldn't spend a lot of time theorizing why he is the way he is. That's all background noise (and it's noise I still have a hard time ignoring, personally). The real sirens wailing are for your mental health and safety. Pay attention to those!
But all the obsessing and wondering and cataloging of his behaviors was crazy-making. With reflection, I think it's probably my years tangled up in his craziness that primed me to enter a relationship with an active A.
So while I definitely think it's helpful to be able to categorize his behavior as bad, maladjusted and unsafe, I wouldn't spend a lot of time theorizing why he is the way he is. That's all background noise (and it's noise I still have a hard time ignoring, personally). The real sirens wailing are for your mental health and safety. Pay attention to those!
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It took me a while to let go of the need to psycho-analyze to make sense of the nonsensical.
Addictions are nonsensical. And as long as we stay tangled up in the desire to make it all make sense, we ignore our own true needs.
Some things just don't make sense. And they aren't fair. We love someone so much and they treat us like dirt, choose a substance over us, or just plain old up and leave us with a house full of needy kids. It isn't fair. And it sucks.
But it is what it is, regardless of what is "wrong" with someone. Acceptance of what is can be difficult. Maybe try to work on that instead.
Take good care,
~T
Addictions are nonsensical. And as long as we stay tangled up in the desire to make it all make sense, we ignore our own true needs.
Some things just don't make sense. And they aren't fair. We love someone so much and they treat us like dirt, choose a substance over us, or just plain old up and leave us with a house full of needy kids. It isn't fair. And it sucks.
But it is what it is, regardless of what is "wrong" with someone. Acceptance of what is can be difficult. Maybe try to work on that instead.
Take good care,
~T
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Hi there, dear chronsweet, I also did what you are doing. I have at least 30 books, if you want, I can send you some. I researched everything. Initially I was on a verbal abuse foum, but even though he was verbally abusive, and he fit in there, it wasn't an exact fit, then I went to a depression forum. and bi-polar forum. He fit in there. I stayed and stayed, and drove myself "nuts". So now I will just say that I was married to an alcoholic who may or may not have a personality disorder.
After years and years of my research this was my conclusion:
There is none. The more they I tried to get him to help himself, the more I was the enemy, and everything was my fault.
And so, I left. Remember the 3 C's.
I also realize that this post may be a little here and there, and disjointed. But it doesn't matter, it is, what it is.
Take it from someone who has been there done that, got the t shirt long time ago, and it's already fading from being washed so many times.
I needed to find out what was wrong, in the end, it didn't matter, he wouldn't do anything about it, but I did. I left !!!!!!!!!
Also need to add in ----- stop the research, I caused my own PTSD and situational depression by doing this.
But then I can't even say that, I needed to do the research, so that I would not hate him. But I did leave him.
After years and years of my research this was my conclusion:
There is none. The more they I tried to get him to help himself, the more I was the enemy, and everything was my fault.
And so, I left. Remember the 3 C's.
I also realize that this post may be a little here and there, and disjointed. But it doesn't matter, it is, what it is.
Take it from someone who has been there done that, got the t shirt long time ago, and it's already fading from being washed so many times.
I needed to find out what was wrong, in the end, it didn't matter, he wouldn't do anything about it, but I did. I left !!!!!!!!!
Also need to add in ----- stop the research, I caused my own PTSD and situational depression by doing this.
But then I can't even say that, I needed to do the research, so that I would not hate him. But I did leave him.
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One of the things to learn is...
...to not say "we" in order to take the focus off of ourselves and our behaviors. It isn't that we all do anything. Many of us do things that many of us do, but the fact of the matter when I'm in a meeting or on this board is what "I" do, not what "we" do.
While what you describe below is very, very common in alcoholics and addicts, it doesn't matter. Talk about you, not me, which is exactly what you are doing when you say "we."
Stay on your side of the fence.
Cyranoak
While what you describe below is very, very common in alcoholics and addicts, it doesn't matter. Talk about you, not me, which is exactly what you are doing when you say "we."
Stay on your side of the fence.
Cyranoak
Originally Posted by chronsweet 
english i still live w/ him ... use the term abf loosely at this point. dolly crazy works .. but i think my A would fit the criteria sober of not.
windmills - we all assess what we think is wrong w/ the A's in our life, at least before we get the skills to leave - to try to make sense of the pain we are going through.
my A has a ton of narcissitic/sociopath tendencies. I have known a lot of ppl with addiction and most are remorseful for the pain they cause their families. My A seriously does not care in the least if he affects people. He is cold and calculating to a disturbing level I have never seen before in another human being.
windmills - we all assess what we think is wrong w/ the A's in our life, at least before we get the skills to leave - to try to make sense of the pain we are going through.
my A has a ton of narcissitic/sociopath tendencies. I have known a lot of ppl with addiction and most are remorseful for the pain they cause their families. My A seriously does not care in the least if he affects people. He is cold and calculating to a disturbing level I have never seen before in another human being.
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Originally Posted by Cyranoak
Talk about you, not me, which is exactly what you are doing when you say "we."
Stay on your side of the fence.
Cyranoak
Stay on your side of the fence.
Cyranoak
I disagree about ME not being on MY side of the fence. I am here to get support from others in the same situation. I don't think anyone here could say they haven't tried to figure out how the alcoholic in their life has affected them. The reason this forum exists is so each one of us can either offer ES&H or are looking for ES&H. To call me out on using the word WE in such an insulting manner really is offending.
And your suggesting to me how I should and should not make use of the word WE is just a little bit controlling IMO. I can do or say what I like, people throughout the history of time have made observations just like the simple observation that I made.
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The thing is, it doesn't matter if he is a psychopath, narcissist, alcoholic, or just plain mean. Those are all his problems. I remember well trying to figure out my AH's problems, why he did what he did, how I could say or do just the right thing that might get him to "see the light."
After seeing a therapist for some time, I learned that all that analyzing of him was nothing more than a way to avoid looking in the mirror. Our marriage was not working, he was clearly an alcoholic, yet there I was. Stuck, frozen, afraid to leave. That was MY problem, not his. And my way of avoiding my problem was to try and change HIM.
L
After seeing a therapist for some time, I learned that all that analyzing of him was nothing more than a way to avoid looking in the mirror. Our marriage was not working, he was clearly an alcoholic, yet there I was. Stuck, frozen, afraid to leave. That was MY problem, not his. And my way of avoiding my problem was to try and change HIM.
L
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I know LaTeeDa - I am working on Step #1. Trust me. 
Wish me luck. I believe this time I am going to make it out. I have to for my own sanity.
Sometimes, it just helps to try to understand what I am going through. I understand that in my head, I really do. LOL. I just need my freaking heart and my feelings to comprehend that no matter what I believe, it is, what it is.
It gets easier day by day to realize that things are just going to stay the same. I do have a plan to get out. I have been saving money. I have went to an Al-Anon meeting to work on ME. Unfortunately I only have time for one a week right now, but I am going to continue to be strong.
I just don't like feeling beat-up because I think my ABF is narcissistic and because I posted a link with some criteria. It really offended me to receive such harsh remarks. I am going through something real with this guy and it hurts.
Wish me luck. I believe this time I am going to make it out. I have to for my own sanity.Sometimes, it just helps to try to understand what I am going through. I understand that in my head, I really do. LOL. I just need my freaking heart and my feelings to comprehend that no matter what I believe, it is, what it is.
It gets easier day by day to realize that things are just going to stay the same. I do have a plan to get out. I have been saving money. I have went to an Al-Anon meeting to work on ME. Unfortunately I only have time for one a week right now, but I am going to continue to be strong.
I just don't like feeling beat-up because I think my ABF is narcissistic and because I posted a link with some criteria. It really offended me to receive such harsh remarks. I am going through something real with this guy and it hurts.
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I'm sorry you feel beat-up and feel the remarks on this thread are harsh. From where I sit, I see quite the opposite. I see a bunch of people who have been-there-done-that attempting to steer your focus back to where it will actually make a positive difference in your life--YOU.
It's not easy and at times can be quite painful, but every minute spent obsessing about HIM is a minute not spent on YOU. And, what it really comes down to, is that our minutes in this life are limited. Our time on this planet is finite. Figuring him out gets you nothing. Figuring you out can get you happiness, peace, and serenity. Which effort do you want to invest your time in?
L
It's not easy and at times can be quite painful, but every minute spent obsessing about HIM is a minute not spent on YOU. And, what it really comes down to, is that our minutes in this life are limited. Our time on this planet is finite. Figuring him out gets you nothing. Figuring you out can get you happiness, peace, and serenity. Which effort do you want to invest your time in?
L
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LaTeeDa - Of course, ME. Thanks!
I know I shouldn't take everything so personal, you know. But, ultimately, it is. I just think these are tough times and I need to be treated gently. LOL. But, in hindsight, a harsh slap of reality might be in order.
You are right, I have been obsessing on what the heck is wrong with this guy for five freaking years. That is a LONG time to try to understand someone who obviously doesn't want to be understood. I have to get over the pain and move forward. One step at a time. I hope to get to jogging speed soon!
I know I shouldn't take everything so personal, you know. But, ultimately, it is. I just think these are tough times and I need to be treated gently. LOL. But, in hindsight, a harsh slap of reality might be in order.
You are right, I have been obsessing on what the heck is wrong with this guy for five freaking years. That is a LONG time to try to understand someone who obviously doesn't want to be understood. I have to get over the pain and move forward. One step at a time. I hope to get to jogging speed soon!
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You are right, I have been obsessing on what the heck is wrong with this guy for five freaking years. That is a LONG time to try to understand someone who obviously doesn't want to be understood.
How much time does he spend worrying, thinking about you?
If you wake up one morning understanding him perfectly, what will happen?
We all want to help you and be supportive and I doubt there's anyone who doesn't relate to your initial posting. Yup, been there, done that. But then it's time to ask how and why we end up with such a troubled person? Is this what you want for yourself, a cold calculated person?
This stuff is hard and it's a process. I strongly recommend Alanon. Keep posting here...
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NYC , Anvilhead
I get nothing out of this relationship but turmoil and pain. Nothing more .. nothing less.
I don't like being treated like this at all, I hate it. Loathe it. I know I deserve better and the ONLY thing that has kept me here the past 2.5 years is my son. Well, that's lying to myself right there. I have been bullied into staying with him by his mom. That's the honest answer. I have been freaking brainwashed and manipulated. Why I allowed that to happen, I honestly don't know. I have to work on that part of me to figure it out I guess. I did not accept this in past relationships or from anyone else in my life. I say that seriously. I have never been taken advantage of before like this. I think it side-swiped me.
Thanks for everyone's words, they really help keep me grounded. I can't believe that someone just takes no responsibilities for their own actions, I can't grasp it or make sense of it in my head. I KNOW I don't have to either, but why the hell do I FEEL like I need to? It's just crazy-making living with an A. Period and there IS only one way out for ME, through the door.
I get nothing out of this relationship but turmoil and pain. Nothing more .. nothing less.
I don't like being treated like this at all, I hate it. Loathe it. I know I deserve better and the ONLY thing that has kept me here the past 2.5 years is my son. Well, that's lying to myself right there. I have been bullied into staying with him by his mom. That's the honest answer. I have been freaking brainwashed and manipulated. Why I allowed that to happen, I honestly don't know. I have to work on that part of me to figure it out I guess. I did not accept this in past relationships or from anyone else in my life. I say that seriously. I have never been taken advantage of before like this. I think it side-swiped me.
Thanks for everyone's words, they really help keep me grounded. I can't believe that someone just takes no responsibilities for their own actions, I can't grasp it or make sense of it in my head. I KNOW I don't have to either, but why the hell do I FEEL like I need to? It's just crazy-making living with an A. Period and there IS only one way out for ME, through the door.
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