Am I overreacting?
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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Am I overreacting?
Last Saturday my husband went to the VA where he is supposed to be going to rehab and showed up on my doorstep on Sunday night saying they won't have a bed for him until Tuesday. I had left the previous Thursday to go stay with my dad and returned home on Sunday when I though he would be in treatment. He kept updating me saying he was in contact with the rehab facility and then said on Tuesday they confirmed he can come in on Thursday. Because he was saying all the right things and I believed he really was trying this time, I let him come home on Tuesday to spend 2 nights with me and the kids before he left for treatment.
Thursday morning he calls the VA and tells me that there was this whole process they didn't tell him about and he would need a note from his doctor at the VA outpatient clinic. So I went with him to the clinic and he told me I couldn't go in with him but he talked to a counselor and the substance abuse psychiatrist - said they took blood and there was nothing in his system so since he was already getting clean on his own he was not a candidate for inpatient treatment but could do outpatient groups. He said the substance abuse lady was supposed to be calling me to explain and he had a brochure with outpatient information highlighted. Never got a phone call. He had an appt. the next day with his primary care doctor at the clinic. He said he would tell him everything too and I asked if I could be there. He told me that he only signed a paper for the substance abuse lady and they wouldn't allow me in the room with him. I only wanted to talk to the doctor to verify he told them how many percocets he's been taking/buying. He ended up going on his own anyway and I never heard from the doctor.
I really hadn't thought about what our situation would look like with him not in treatment so I was shocked and not prepared when he assumed he would keep staying with me. I told him that he should try to find another program (we don't have insurance) but until he figured something out he would have to meet some conditions or that was it: 1. Absolutely no pills or ER visits 2. He would not touch my debit card without my permission and 3. He would account for every dollar spent.
Which brings me to the issue at hand - he told me he had money on Friday from working during the week. We had a yard sale on Saturday. I checked my bank account this morning and saw an ATM withdraw for $20 and $15 in gas station purchases. He said that he couldn't sleep before the yard sale and went to the gas station at 5 am and spent $7 on cigarettes and drinks, went to the ATM and checked the balance and took out $20, returned to the gas station to turn the $20 into ones for the yard sale and spent another $7 on drinks and cigarettes before coming home before I got up at 7 am. We spent all day yesterday together, including vegging out in front of the TV in the evening and he never mentioned anything about it.
I was extremely upset - he sees it as only $35 and it's "our" money so why am I mad at him. I see it as another violation of my trust for him - he promised I wouldn't have to hide my debit card anymore because he would never use it without asking. He claims he was too groggy when he left at 5 am so he forgot his cash and my debit card was in the truck. (My argument was if he was too groggy to remember money then he was too out of it to drive.)
I told him he must have thought I was joking because he violated one of the conditions of him staying and I'm done. To me this shows that he is not serious about changing - he knows I get mad when I find out things through other sources. He insists he hasn't lied because I never asked. He said he saved the receipts so I'm taking this too far. To me it feels like I will always have to hide my debit card because I can't trust him. I know the amount was small (this time) and it didn't prevent other bills from being paid, but to me it could have been $1 missing and I would feel the same. Am I overreacting here?
Thursday morning he calls the VA and tells me that there was this whole process they didn't tell him about and he would need a note from his doctor at the VA outpatient clinic. So I went with him to the clinic and he told me I couldn't go in with him but he talked to a counselor and the substance abuse psychiatrist - said they took blood and there was nothing in his system so since he was already getting clean on his own he was not a candidate for inpatient treatment but could do outpatient groups. He said the substance abuse lady was supposed to be calling me to explain and he had a brochure with outpatient information highlighted. Never got a phone call. He had an appt. the next day with his primary care doctor at the clinic. He said he would tell him everything too and I asked if I could be there. He told me that he only signed a paper for the substance abuse lady and they wouldn't allow me in the room with him. I only wanted to talk to the doctor to verify he told them how many percocets he's been taking/buying. He ended up going on his own anyway and I never heard from the doctor.
I really hadn't thought about what our situation would look like with him not in treatment so I was shocked and not prepared when he assumed he would keep staying with me. I told him that he should try to find another program (we don't have insurance) but until he figured something out he would have to meet some conditions or that was it: 1. Absolutely no pills or ER visits 2. He would not touch my debit card without my permission and 3. He would account for every dollar spent.
Which brings me to the issue at hand - he told me he had money on Friday from working during the week. We had a yard sale on Saturday. I checked my bank account this morning and saw an ATM withdraw for $20 and $15 in gas station purchases. He said that he couldn't sleep before the yard sale and went to the gas station at 5 am and spent $7 on cigarettes and drinks, went to the ATM and checked the balance and took out $20, returned to the gas station to turn the $20 into ones for the yard sale and spent another $7 on drinks and cigarettes before coming home before I got up at 7 am. We spent all day yesterday together, including vegging out in front of the TV in the evening and he never mentioned anything about it.
I was extremely upset - he sees it as only $35 and it's "our" money so why am I mad at him. I see it as another violation of my trust for him - he promised I wouldn't have to hide my debit card anymore because he would never use it without asking. He claims he was too groggy when he left at 5 am so he forgot his cash and my debit card was in the truck. (My argument was if he was too groggy to remember money then he was too out of it to drive.)
I told him he must have thought I was joking because he violated one of the conditions of him staying and I'm done. To me this shows that he is not serious about changing - he knows I get mad when I find out things through other sources. He insists he hasn't lied because I never asked. He said he saved the receipts so I'm taking this too far. To me it feels like I will always have to hide my debit card because I can't trust him. I know the amount was small (this time) and it didn't prevent other bills from being paid, but to me it could have been $1 missing and I would feel the same. Am I overreacting here?
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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GIANT RED FLAGS...
maybe it's me...but your whole post sounds like one big friggin lie after another...a crazy string of lame lies that are ridiculous.
every single time I have heard my ex say "gas and cigarettes..." it's like code for "you're an idiot and you want to believe me while I use and try to deceive you"
such a ridiculous game we play
absurd.
maybe it's me...but your whole post sounds like one big friggin lie after another...a crazy string of lame lies that are ridiculous.
every single time I have heard my ex say "gas and cigarettes..." it's like code for "you're an idiot and you want to believe me while I use and try to deceive you"
such a ridiculous game we play
absurd.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,870
Nope. He knew the rules when you allowed him to stay there. You are well within your rights to make him leave. Doesn't sound to me like he has any intention of changing and he's been handing you line after line of BS. You know this in your gut.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 445
Just wanting to clarify... Did he actually have receipts for the drinks/snacks and cigs? And was there some discussion at any point about needing dollar bills for the sale ( cause I can see where you would need them ).
So it's really just that he took the card and did all this without waking you up to ask, or waiting for you to get up and get approval?
So it's really just that he took the card and did all this without waking you up to ask, or waiting for you to get up and get approval?
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Minneapolis
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I went to a few intake interviews for treatment with my ex...
and guess what? each time I was invited in to have a chat with the interviewer
these interviewers have seen it all
I used to be afraid that my ex is so good that he would be able to manipulate them into not sending him to treatment
the truth is, they see through that...and what they see is not someone manipulating them, they see someone who doesn't want to go to inpatient treatment, someone who thinks they have a better idea. so why should they waste the time and resources on someone who isn't committed to change?
I will re-emphasize that I have been invited in for a chat...with doctors, with therapist, with interventionist and with intake interviews...and with exit interviews...and I am a mere girlfriend...not a wife.
there is no reason you should be kept in the dark with a legal partnership that affects your life. the dark is where lies and manipulation breed
and guess what? each time I was invited in to have a chat with the interviewer
these interviewers have seen it all
I used to be afraid that my ex is so good that he would be able to manipulate them into not sending him to treatment
the truth is, they see through that...and what they see is not someone manipulating them, they see someone who doesn't want to go to inpatient treatment, someone who thinks they have a better idea. so why should they waste the time and resources on someone who isn't committed to change?
I will re-emphasize that I have been invited in for a chat...with doctors, with therapist, with interventionist and with intake interviews...and with exit interviews...and I am a mere girlfriend...not a wife.
there is no reason you should be kept in the dark with a legal partnership that affects your life. the dark is where lies and manipulation breed
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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Originally Posted by KelleyF 
Just wanting to clarify... Did he actually have receipts for the drinks/snacks and cigs? And was there some discussion at any point about needing dollar bills for the sale ( cause I can see where you would need them ).
So it's really just that he took the card and did all this without waking you up to ask, or waiting for you to get up and get approval?
So it's really just that he took the card and did all this without waking you up to ask, or waiting for you to get up and get approval?
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
No, you're not over reacting. It is frustrating when our boundaries are ignored. I have a feeling you don't believe anything he says. Nor would I.
But he is an addict, doing what addicts do and knowing he can get away with it. They know us better then we think.
Keep working on you until you find your strength. He has no real reason to change because our charming AH's know oh so well how to have their cake and eat it do....until we stop it. Without help and a sincere desire to change, he will continue to use, lie and manipulate. Don't be surprised.
God Bless and hide everything!
But he is an addict, doing what addicts do and knowing he can get away with it. They know us better then we think.
Keep working on you until you find your strength. He has no real reason to change because our charming AH's know oh so well how to have their cake and eat it do....until we stop it. Without help and a sincere desire to change, he will continue to use, lie and manipulate. Don't be surprised.
God Bless and hide everything!
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: North West, England
Posts: 500
3 withdrawals would have my crazy suspicious. I used to see several £30 withdrawals for £15 bags, since you can't withdraw £5s.
You know what you asked of him. Don't take my money without asking is a very reasonable boundary- particularly when you have your own. As for going out to buy cigarettes and forgetting to take your money.. That is a special kind of lie. I know exactly where you are at, I've been there too.
You're not being unreasonable. If I was you I would conclude he is using. Apparently addict behaviour is universal!
You know what you asked of him. Don't take my money without asking is a very reasonable boundary- particularly when you have your own. As for going out to buy cigarettes and forgetting to take your money.. That is a special kind of lie. I know exactly where you are at, I've been there too.
You're not being unreasonable. If I was you I would conclude he is using. Apparently addict behaviour is universal!
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,870
A relationship without trust is no relationship. It doesn't matter whether he used your card for gas, spent $100 or only $1.00. The point is he did what you specifically said not to do. He will continue to push the envelope as long as you allow it. That is deceitful and does not add up to someone wanting recovery. He's lying. You know it.
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The $20 was in cash, the $15 just shows as a hold on my account right now but they were debit card purchases. He says it was two $7 and change purchases.
I feel that he was going to go to treatment when he saw that was the only way to keep me from leaving. Once I let him back in the house he saw a way to stay without going so he's trying to keep life as it was. This may be something minor I'm using as an excuse because I want out. I don't trust him and I don't know if I want to go through the next few years making him prove he's sober and building back up that trust slowly - he may earn some credibility by telling the truth for a while but every time he lies it sets him back to zero on my trust level.
He has taken my debit card and used it without telling me many times - $700 or $13, I have always had an issue because it's about trust/communication and not so much about the money. It's not like this is his first time doing it and he had no idea I would get mad. I had started hiding my debit card - whenever I accidentally left it out I would always find he used it. I really wanted to believe he was different - yes, I want to leave because of his addiction to pills, but I also want to leave because I can't get ahead financially with him. Whether its pills, cigarettes (3 packs a day or more habit), or gas station sodas/red bulls - he manages to spend every penny we have.
I feel that he was going to go to treatment when he saw that was the only way to keep me from leaving. Once I let him back in the house he saw a way to stay without going so he's trying to keep life as it was. This may be something minor I'm using as an excuse because I want out. I don't trust him and I don't know if I want to go through the next few years making him prove he's sober and building back up that trust slowly - he may earn some credibility by telling the truth for a while but every time he lies it sets him back to zero on my trust level.
He has taken my debit card and used it without telling me many times - $700 or $13, I have always had an issue because it's about trust/communication and not so much about the money. It's not like this is his first time doing it and he had no idea I would get mad. I had started hiding my debit card - whenever I accidentally left it out I would always find he used it. I really wanted to believe he was different - yes, I want to leave because of his addiction to pills, but I also want to leave because I can't get ahead financially with him. Whether its pills, cigarettes (3 packs a day or more habit), or gas station sodas/red bulls - he manages to spend every penny we have.
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Most addicts don't just quit taking their doc and poof the problem is gone! They may abstain for a short while (days) but they are from better.
Don't be naive..like me. I thought it was like quitting smoking....it's NOT!!
Don't be naive..like me. I thought it was like quitting smoking....it's NOT!!
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,870
I feel that he was going to go to treatment when he saw that was the only way to keep me from leaving. Once I let him back in the house he saw a way to stay without going so he's trying to keep life as it was.
^^^^ This! ^^^^
You hit it right square on the nose. Now he is back in the house. That was his goal all along. You may not have an easy time getting him to leave again, assuming that is what you want. You are back in the nightmare.
^^^^ This! ^^^^
You hit it right square on the nose. Now he is back in the house. That was his goal all along. You may not have an easy time getting him to leave again, assuming that is what you want. You are back in the nightmare.
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Originally Posted by ItIsAboutTime
The $20 was in cash, the $15 just shows as a hold on my account right now but they were debit card purchases. He says it was two $7 and change purchases.
I feel that he was going to go to treatment when he saw that was the only way to keep me from leaving. Once I let him back in the house he saw a way to stay without going so he's trying to keep life as it was. This may be something minor I'm using as an excuse because I want out. I don't trust him and I don't know if I want to go through the next few years making him prove he's sober and building back up that trust slowly - he may earn some credibility by telling the truth for a while but every time he lies it sets him back to zero on my trust level.
He has taken my debit card and used it without telling me many times - $700 or $13, I have always had an issue because it's about trust/communication and not so much about the money. It's not like this is his first time doing it and he had no idea I would get mad. I had started hiding my debit card - whenever I accidentally left it out I would always find he used it. I really wanted to believe he was different - yes, I want to leave because of his addiction to pills, but I also want to leave because I can't get ahead financially with him. Whether its pills, cigarettes (3 packs a day or more habit), or gas station sodas/red bulls - he manages to spend every penny we have.
I feel that he was going to go to treatment when he saw that was the only way to keep me from leaving. Once I let him back in the house he saw a way to stay without going so he's trying to keep life as it was. This may be something minor I'm using as an excuse because I want out. I don't trust him and I don't know if I want to go through the next few years making him prove he's sober and building back up that trust slowly - he may earn some credibility by telling the truth for a while but every time he lies it sets him back to zero on my trust level.
He has taken my debit card and used it without telling me many times - $700 or $13, I have always had an issue because it's about trust/communication and not so much about the money. It's not like this is his first time doing it and he had no idea I would get mad. I had started hiding my debit card - whenever I accidentally left it out I would always find he used it. I really wanted to believe he was different - yes, I want to leave because of his addiction to pills, but I also want to leave because I can't get ahead financially with him. Whether its pills, cigarettes (3 packs a day or more habit), or gas station sodas/red bulls - he manages to spend every penny we have.
...it's only gets worse too. Addiction is a progressive disease!
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 924
toward the end of my process of letting go this is what I slowly discovered about my own truth...
after a two year process of in/out in/out in/out and talking til I was blue in the face, hearing and debating every "excuse" to use, taking blame, deflecting blame, sorting through blame, becoming blamable etc etc etc...what I realized was this...
I fell in love quickly with my ex, as I tend to do. The love was palpable, quicksilver like...very attractive, common languages, beauty, a deep wild running river...I was in love with his good side and his split (most addicts start to develop this split because it is a survival technique) would amp up the charm in order to keep me...
the charm of the good side was like a smoke screen. he emphasized his good points and tried to make up for the deficit of his addiction. this was a fatal flaw...trying to "make up for the addiction" is not the same as dealing with addiction. Their "making up for" becomes attractive to the codependent because there is a lot of behavior that is out of balance and puts the codie into a "superior" role
but when the smokescreen starts to get holes punched in it...usually due to our efforts at recovery...what we discover is that it IS a smokescreen
we can't really love a smokescreen, or an exaggerated "good side" that charms and makes false promises and tries to hide the sneaky addict side...
and when we start to realize that there is a part of that person who we loved that is not someone we want to partner with...well...its just weird! wait a minute...we love that person! why do we want out?
I started to see the cold reality of the addict in my ex. I still love him, but I realized I do not want him as a partner in my life!!! There were a few times before this last time, where I took him back and then would catch myself thinking "why did I do this?" "he's a total mess!!" "it's going to be a reallllly long uphill battle that will detract from my own lifesource and energy and path...and its NOT my path to take!!!" I would have this kind of sinking feeling...once I got past the smoke screen...
that I had gotten to a point where I felt like I had won the battle, but I hadn't realized the overwhelming enormity of the war. and it wasn't my war. I had just been fighting so long that I felt obligated to each little victory...until the smoke cleared.
you're right...its not the $1 or the $800...its the smokescreen...the awakening to the fact that this person is your "partner"...
and maybe you've become ready to change that.
after a two year process of in/out in/out in/out and talking til I was blue in the face, hearing and debating every "excuse" to use, taking blame, deflecting blame, sorting through blame, becoming blamable etc etc etc...what I realized was this...
I fell in love quickly with my ex, as I tend to do. The love was palpable, quicksilver like...very attractive, common languages, beauty, a deep wild running river...I was in love with his good side and his split (most addicts start to develop this split because it is a survival technique) would amp up the charm in order to keep me...
the charm of the good side was like a smoke screen. he emphasized his good points and tried to make up for the deficit of his addiction. this was a fatal flaw...trying to "make up for the addiction" is not the same as dealing with addiction. Their "making up for" becomes attractive to the codependent because there is a lot of behavior that is out of balance and puts the codie into a "superior" role
but when the smokescreen starts to get holes punched in it...usually due to our efforts at recovery...what we discover is that it IS a smokescreen
we can't really love a smokescreen, or an exaggerated "good side" that charms and makes false promises and tries to hide the sneaky addict side...
and when we start to realize that there is a part of that person who we loved that is not someone we want to partner with...well...its just weird! wait a minute...we love that person! why do we want out?
I started to see the cold reality of the addict in my ex. I still love him, but I realized I do not want him as a partner in my life!!! There were a few times before this last time, where I took him back and then would catch myself thinking "why did I do this?" "he's a total mess!!" "it's going to be a reallllly long uphill battle that will detract from my own lifesource and energy and path...and its NOT my path to take!!!" I would have this kind of sinking feeling...once I got past the smoke screen...
that I had gotten to a point where I felt like I had won the battle, but I hadn't realized the overwhelming enormity of the war. and it wasn't my war. I had just been fighting so long that I felt obligated to each little victory...until the smoke cleared.
you're right...its not the $1 or the $800...its the smokescreen...the awakening to the fact that this person is your "partner"...
and maybe you've become ready to change that.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 24
Thank you all for your responses!
I have tried with a PIN he doesn't know - even though I have written "See ID, __ Only" on the back, he still used to use it all the time. I got a new one with a pin he'd never figure out and he used it at a gas station and got cash back (how he can do that using it as credit and not debit I don't know - might have something to do with his friendship with the owner at that station). I might be crazy for even trusting him enough to leave my card out, but at least I've started paying bills as soon as anything is deposited and only leaving just enough in the account for small purchases and hide the rest - that's the only way I can save money.
Because I told him I was done, I couldn't trust him and can't keep doing this, he of course started the pity party - I don't love him, he can't do anything right. He told me he took a whole bottle of heart pills (some blood pressure medicine that's supposed to help with his PTSD) and he wouldn't be here tomorrow. I have already gone through these threats twice and have called the police and having them look for him only to find he's been hanging out at a friend's house instead of getting ready to jump off a bridge. I told him he'd better call and ambulance because I wasn't playing these games anymore. If he was serious he had many other people to call for help, including 911, but I felt like he was using it to manipulate me. An hour later he's calling from his friend's phone because his battery was dead. His friend said that my AH told him I was the one threatening suicide. He's supposedly going to treatment tonight but I see how that has gone so far... Even though I keep going around in circles with him, (to use leslie's metaphor for the smokescreen) every time a little more of the smoke gets cleared away and I'm that much closer to being out of this relationship for good. Unfortunately in this state we have to be separated a year before divorce and I can't kick him out without legal action if he doesn't want to go. I know now that there is no compromising - whatever bargain he works out is to buy him time to wear me down. He is not going to change overnight and if I let everything stay the same it gives him no reason to.
I have tried with a PIN he doesn't know - even though I have written "See ID, __ Only" on the back, he still used to use it all the time. I got a new one with a pin he'd never figure out and he used it at a gas station and got cash back (how he can do that using it as credit and not debit I don't know - might have something to do with his friendship with the owner at that station). I might be crazy for even trusting him enough to leave my card out, but at least I've started paying bills as soon as anything is deposited and only leaving just enough in the account for small purchases and hide the rest - that's the only way I can save money.
Because I told him I was done, I couldn't trust him and can't keep doing this, he of course started the pity party - I don't love him, he can't do anything right. He told me he took a whole bottle of heart pills (some blood pressure medicine that's supposed to help with his PTSD) and he wouldn't be here tomorrow. I have already gone through these threats twice and have called the police and having them look for him only to find he's been hanging out at a friend's house instead of getting ready to jump off a bridge. I told him he'd better call and ambulance because I wasn't playing these games anymore. If he was serious he had many other people to call for help, including 911, but I felt like he was using it to manipulate me. An hour later he's calling from his friend's phone because his battery was dead. His friend said that my AH told him I was the one threatening suicide. He's supposedly going to treatment tonight but I see how that has gone so far... Even though I keep going around in circles with him, (to use leslie's metaphor for the smokescreen) every time a little more of the smoke gets cleared away and I'm that much closer to being out of this relationship for good. Unfortunately in this state we have to be separated a year before divorce and I can't kick him out without legal action if he doesn't want to go. I know now that there is no compromising - whatever bargain he works out is to buy him time to wear me down. He is not going to change overnight and if I let everything stay the same it gives him no reason to.
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
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Just close the account, get a new one....and...don't tell him OR give him a card and if necessary change your address to have the new card/bills sent somewhere else. You are creating your own problem.
As for tossing him out, very seldom does anything come out this...addicts are not capable of following through on legal action...you have nothing to lose, don't worry about the unknown.
As for tossing him out, very seldom does anything come out this...addicts are not capable of following through on legal action...you have nothing to lose, don't worry about the unknown.
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Look at the insanity! He is telling you he going to kill himself, yet tells his friend you want are the one threatening it. Yet, he is with his friend, not you and leaving his kids with a mother who is so depressed or unstable that she is threatening to kill herself??? wow!!
I think you are seeing the "game of addiction" fairly clearly. I didn't think changing your pin would work either. You can try hiding it but from my experience, addicts are like blood hounds when they want money.
Are you able to get to any Al-anon or Narc-anon meetings, can you afford a therapist? It really helped me think more clearly. Some how through all this madness, YOU need to get healthy so you can be the person and Mother you need to be. Being a wife, has to be our last (if at all) priority. They made the choice and continue to do so! That simple!!
(yet that hard to understand...in the beginning)
I think you are seeing the "game of addiction" fairly clearly. I didn't think changing your pin would work either. You can try hiding it but from my experience, addicts are like blood hounds when they want money.
Are you able to get to any Al-anon or Narc-anon meetings, can you afford a therapist? It really helped me think more clearly. Some how through all this madness, YOU need to get healthy so you can be the person and Mother you need to be. Being a wife, has to be our last (if at all) priority. They made the choice and continue to do so! That simple!!
(yet that hard to understand...in the beginning)
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