Is our doctor totally blind?

Old 04-24-2012, 08:14 PM
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Is our doctor totally blind?

So last week XAF and I went to the dr to see about getting him a depression diagnosis. The dr asked me to leave the room. XAF proceeded to tell the dr I exaggerate his drinking and that he can stop alone. The dr called me back in.

The dr says since XAF admits he has a problem but thinks he can stop alone, we should let him try. HELLO!? we've been doing this for months... thanks so much.

He has drank every day since the appt.

Saturday was my "date night." When he was serious about getting sober, he told me to pick a movie and we would go see it. I chose titanic 3D. We went but he asked if I could drive since he was tired. We got there and had an hr to spare. Thats when I realized he was wasted out of his tree. He spilled my drink and his popcorn everywhere. I started crying in the theater lobby. People were staring. He said to me "shut up, you're embarrassing me. Take me home I'm done here if you're going to cry and play the victim!!!"

So titanic was good, he slept the whole time and snored. Really embarrassing.

Today he made arrangements to see his kids. He was supposed to be here at 4. I found him at 8, passed out with a 26er of whiskey having pissed himself. I thought he was dead. He said he'd be over straight after work, at 4. I was calling everyone to find out where he was. Silly me. Guess I thought he wouldn't be or couldn't be that selfish.

I have to go see the dr tomorrow for my daughter's cough. Will be sure to thank him for treating me like an idiot and making my XAF think he doesn't have a problem.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:06 PM
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Its been my experience that a lot of doctors and psychotherapist dont truly know or understand alcoholism and at best have a general knowledge about the disease. In some ways its like talking to a lay person.

Its taken me about 18 months of reading books, studying, learning, going to Al-anon and coming to SR almost daily to have a better understanding of alcoholism and its effects on my AH and family. I have lived with it for 24 yrs too and so have first hand knowledge of the disease and its implications to my family's health, mental health and well-being.

Most Doctors do not get anywhere near this kind of training!

Even with all my knowledge and experience, this was still not enough to 'help' my AH come out of the denial that was his alcoholism. I did however get enough knowledge about alcoholism to realise that I cant change my husband, cant control or didn't cause my husbands alcoholism.

Your XAH is an alcoholic, they are in denial, selfish and live in chaos and so will you if you keep expecting to 'help' him when he is quite clearly not ready for help.

Have you been to Al-anon?
Have you read the book 'Under the Influence' by Milam and Ketchum?

If not - Can I kindly suggest that you do. You cant change your XAH unless he wants to change but you can change you.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:25 PM
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Before I lost my career as an RN thanks to addiction, I had a lot of patients who downplayed their addiction/alcoholism. Unfortunately, unless the patient WANTED help? There wasn't much we or the doctors could do. Sure, if you came in with a high blood alcohol level, having seizures or something, we could treat that. However, if the patient said "oh, it was just a one time thing" we were not legally allowed to force treatment.

When I was just staring into addiction, I knew exactly what to say to my dr. to get what I needed. I still do. However, I choose recovery and my dr. knows all about my history.

I get why you're frustrated, but as long as your XAF downplays his alcoholism? There's not much a doctor, or anyone else can do. FWIW, my XABF died because smoking his crack pipe was more important than going to a dr. He had pneumonia. I DO know how you feel, I've been on both sides of the addiction fence, and I'm sorry for your pain.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:30 PM
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He is acting exactly as an alcoholic would. If you start expecting alcoholic behavior you won't be surprised by his actions.

I second the suggestion of al-anon.

He is your x. He is a grown man. If you interacted with him as such you'd save yourself some stress. For example - not sure why you were at his doctors appt. but think of all the stress you'd have saved yourself had he gone to the doctor like any other grown man - alone. If you could switch your thinking to expect an alcoholic you'd have known right away that you driving was a signal that the date should end before it started. More saved stress and embarrassment. He is selfish. Expect it. No need to go calling around - you know where he is. Passed out somewhere or drinking his way there.

The doctor is a bystander to the wreckage. Not like his words of wisdom (and you don't know what was said in that room) would have turned your xah into a changed man right then and there. You want a depression diagnosis - go to a psychologist. You want addictions treatment - go to an addictions specialist. You want peace for yourself - find al-anon or a counselor.

I've been there and it sucks. One time, after our divorce, xah was supposed to visit the kids. Of course he drives all the way here and decides to stop in at the bar instead. So no visit and sad kids. Then he calls, drunk, and asks if he can come over. Hell no you can't come over. I finally had my little oasis and he wasn't part of it. He shows up at the door, the kids are jumping around......and I let him in. I thought I was going to die from all the stress and anxiety before he finally left. What a LESSON I got that night though. Never again. See I had a little space by then. Give yourself a little space and then if you slip up, like I did, it totally hits you in the face because it is more clear. Everything is more clear.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:26 PM
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Actually, the Dr. might be very smart. Giving your ex the "chance" to do it alone gives him the power to make suggestions in the future. IF, and I stress IF, he goes back to the doc, the Dr. will be able to say "Ok, John, you tried to go it alone, maybe it's time to explore other options".
Seeing you, the EX, come to the office with him probably spoke volumes to the Dr. It told him that John was likely only doing what you wanted him to do, and had no intention of following through with any treatment plan at that time. He was simply playing a game to appease you. Someone who is on the verge of seeking recovery is usually not going to bring their ex along for the ride. I feel that this Dr. probably sensed this and acted accordingly.
The Dr. most likely is waiting for the opportunity to send "John" to AA and a psychologist, and medical testing. I am sure he has seen his share of alcoholics and knows they won't respond to help unless THEY are the ones who ask for it.
Give the doc the benefit of doubt for now, and back off. This is not your battle. You may be a casualty of the battle, but it's not your fight. Do as others have suggested and learn how to deal with an alcoholic in your life. The kids will need your strength to deal with the fact their dad is an alcoholic, and you need to learn how to respond appropriately when he is drinking. Go on with your life, let him see you manage just fine without his drama and BS, and let him and his doc figure out his problems on their own. You owe it to yourself and the kids to make the best life possible, and being around a drunk isn't one of the options for your future. Good luck and positive vibes for tackling this problem.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:32 PM
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Thumper your advice is right on.

I have asked my self many time "why do I rep going back for more of the same BS and pain?"

The answer is clear now, I wasn't ready until I was ready and once I was so suck and tired of being sick and tired I gave my self that "space" you are referring to and then when I slipped...it was clear as day!!! Clearer than ever as creating this pace and pulling out of the eye of the storm allowed me to see things more clearly and honestly.

A very fair next step is to create some space for yourself even if its just a crack and you go from there.
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:22 AM
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My husband started going to the Dr. alone when he figured out I would always tell his Dr's the truth about his drinking, even though he had always asked me to go with him.

He got what he wanted from that Dr. (xanax), but after repeated blood work showing elevated liver enzymes the doc figured it out on his own and stopped prescribing controlled substances for him.
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:42 AM
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A few months ago, while we were still together, my ex went to the doctor to get a refill on his antidepressant and asked for an RX for benzodiazapines (tranquilizers), which are highly addictive and not supposed to be given to addicts. I was stunned that they gave them to him.

He started taking the benzos AND drinking with them, and the effect was truly frightening. He went completely out of his head. They amplify the effect of alcohol by at least double, and mixed with alcohol can cause you to stop breathing in your sleep and die.

A lot of doctors just don't know enough about addiction.
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:05 AM
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It takes a while for a doctor or hospital to catch on to what is going on.

How many patients do they have? How can they be expected to keep track of everything every single patient says? Especially an addict, who is of course downplaying the whole thing, so when the doctor opens the chart, it is going to say, So-and-so came in talking about drinking a couple times a month (yeah right), and then six months later, it is going to say exactly the same thing.

I totally agree that doctors don't know as much about addiction as they should. Really, they are the ones to blame for the whole prescription pill addiction thing. If they would just recognize a drug seeker, they wouldn't give them their pills and there you go, no one would have any and they would all have to go to rehab. But at the same time, a doctor cannot accurately diagnose any issue without the right information. And the addict is manipulating them just like anyone else, into thinking there is nothing wrong with them. Since a doctor does not see them as often as a family member, the manipulation continues a lot longer until the doctor realizes there is something wrong.
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:28 AM
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I use to be so angry at the drs for giving my ex ah those prescriptions ~ then the drs' finally wised up ~ my ex ah found new drs ~ those drs figured out his game ~ my ex ah started buying the pills on the street. . .

When there is a demand within the addict ~ they will find a way ~ no matter what ~

It is the nature of the disease . . .

In Al-Anon, I learned to take the focus off of the drs, the pills, the many many different ways they (he and then my daughter) fed their disease and started focusing on what was healthy for ME ~ It made for a much happier and recovery oriented life for me and my other girls!

PINK HUGS,
Rita
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:23 PM
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Pink, that was my point exactly. An addict will always find a way to get what they want. Let's say you go to the Dr. with AH and tell him what an alcoholic he is. Doc says ok, we will do this, this, and this. AH simply goes to another doc on the side, (without your knowledge), gets whatever pills he needs, and continues the game playing with Dr. #1. That doc will have no idea that AH is taking meds from another source, and possibly more than one other source.
Legally, a person's medical information is private, and unless the Dr. has been given permission from the patient to share that info, he can't ask a spouse about the patient or give them any info.
It is correct that a Dr. can only work with the info he is given, and if he is lied to then he will give the wrong treatment. A good Dr. will order a complete blood work up before prescribing drugs or therapies, and elevated liver enzymes, high BA count, vitamin deficiencies and such will clue him in that the patient is an alcoholic. Simply because AH goes to the Dr. with you means nothing-he will play along with you to keep you happy, and go to other clinics or doctors behind your back. It is a vicious loop, one that you have no control over. If a person is serious about going into recovery he will take the proper steps and follow them. Anything else is a ruse to hide behind while he figures out a new way to hide his drinking from you. I have said it before and will say it again---you cannot fix someone who doesn't think they are broken. YOUR response to the alcoholic is the only control you have, so focus on how you plan to respond if AH refuses to quit drinking, your future depends on it.
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by skarletstarlet View Post
...The dr says since XAF admits he has a problem but thinks he can stop alone, we should let him try. HELLO!? we've been doing this for months... thanks so much.

I have to go see the dr tomorrow for my daughter's cough. Will be sure to thank him for treating me like an idiot and making my XAF think he doesn't have a problem.
"...we should let him..." Because you have no choice.

This was a wise doctor. There's nothing he can do about your XAF's problem, and there's nothing you can do about it either.

But there's something the doctor could do about you: he could remind you that the most appropriate action you could take in this matter is to "let him" (as if you have a choice) handle his drinking problem his way.

I hope you did not scold the doctor. The doctor did not "MAKE" your XAF think he doesn't have a problem. Your XAF ALREADY thought he didn't have a problem before he walked into the doctor's office.

He was not treating you like an idiot. He was treating you with respect. He gave you excellent advice and refused to be triangulated into a dysfunctional dance between you and your XAF.

What do you mean by "...we've been doing this for months..."? How have 'you' as part of 'we' been doing this? I'm guessing HE chose to drink and you were powerless to do anything. So what was your part in "we've been doing this"?

No authority figure can make your XAF stop drinking: no judge, no jailor, no parent, no child, no boss, no doctor, no pharmacist, no lover, no priest, NOBODY....
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:46 AM
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The onus lies squarely 100% on your X, not the Dr. It's not any Dr.'s responsibility to make decisions for a patient. He/she can make suggestions, but ultimately a decision is up to the patient.

Additionally, antidepressants do not work and should not be taken by anyone still drinking.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:27 PM
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I'm confused. Is he your ex or not?
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:09 PM
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I was really confused with XAF. ex-alcoholic-father? Is he an ex-alcoholic or an ex-father, and then date nights... ....I was wow, I don't think, I'm going to get involved in this...but further reading has me thinking XAF as alcoholic ex-friend, but date nights? Still not clear on this one.

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Old 04-26-2012, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by m1k3 View Post
I was really confused with XAF. ex-alcoholic-father? Is he an ex-alcoholic or an ex-father, and then date nights... ....I was wow, I don't think, I'm going to get involved in this...but further reading has me thinking XAF as alcoholic ex-friend, but date nights? Still not clear on this one.

I think it's ex alcoholic fiance.

But maybe now a boyfriend? X-fiance, current boyfriend. Possible father of her child?

I too am surprised by the number of women who go to doctors appts with boyfriends. And I'm surprised that doctors permit it. I'd have assumed they'd just say, "You, wait in the waiting room".

It was awful nice of this doctor to give her the time of day or to even talk to her.
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:43 PM
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Good Lord

What, in God's name, would make you think this? You have months (your words) of experience saying this is EXACTLY what he would do, will do, and will always do as long as he is drinking. How can you, even for a moment, rationalize this belief of yours?

Originally Posted by skarletstarlet View Post
Guess I thought he wouldn't be or couldn't be that selfish.
This, in your words, is the man you are with and will always be with unless you leave, or unless he believes in his very core he IS an alcoholic, he wants to stop, and he'll submit himself to the program of his choice to do so:
  • He has drank every day since the appt.
  • Saturday was my "date night." We got there and had an hr to spare. Thats when I realized he was wasted out of his tree.
  • He spilled my drink and his popcorn everywhere. I started crying in the theater lobby. People were staring. He said to me "shut up, you're embarrassing me. Take me home I'm done here if you're going to cry and play the victim!!!"
  • ...he slept the whole time and snored. Really embarrassing.
  • He was supposed to be here at 4.
  • I found him at 8, passed out with a 26er of whiskey having pissed himself. I thought he was dead.

The doctor, while completely ignorant about alcoholism as many doctors are, is not the problem. Your denial, codependency, and your alcoholic husband is the problem. The solution, for you, is Alanon if you really want your life to improve.

Drunkard that he is, and Gaslighter that he is, he was right about one thing-- you are playing the victim. Now stop. Your new role is to play the hero, and the person you are going to save is yourself.

Good luck,

Cyranoak
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:46 PM
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If he's your ex, why are you going with him to his doctor's appointments?
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:47 PM
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If he's your ex, why are you going with him to his doctor's appointments?
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:56 PM
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Until he's ready, there isn't much to do.

Al Anon and focus on you. Your children will be grateful for this!
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