jblocutus1701d

I had posted a while ago about my boyfriend and I taking a break while he goes through his AA program. After trying to be friends for a while we got back together. I was there for him still but after a while I tried to move on, grudgingly I might add. I never really found anyone who I liked all that much and when we got back together and he found out that I was talking to quite a few guys he broke it off saying that he thought that I was waiting for him and I made it seem like I wasn't out there "looking". The truth is, I didn't want to look and I didn't talk about it because what was the point?

Long story short, we worked the problem out. We want to be together, the only reason we broke up in the first place is because his sponsor told him that he can't handle a relationship. New information on this has unraveled since the first break up; he made it sound like it was totally his idea and it was confirmed by others involved in his program when in fact it wasn't, the idea came mostly from them. I'm thinking that because we weren't together for some long period of time that they think that he should just cut me off. Is this common? Do people usually LEAVE relationships while in AA/because of AA? Couldn't the support of a relationship be helpful if the non alcoholic is supportive in the right ways?

Anyway, my main questions are, what do I do? He says that he wants me in his life, he doesn't want to lose me, and that I'm the only real support he has outside of AA who takes his recovery seriously (His sponsor hardly even answers his calls). Do I give up and force him away? Is his sponsor right? I don't want to leave, and he doesn't want me to leave, so what do we do? The only times that things were harder as a result of my presence was when we I wasn't as present. I'm prepared to stand by him through this. I know that most of that will be focusing on myself and working on being a better me for myself, but I want to be there for him for moral support and comfort. I've made up my mind and regardless of the outcome I'm going to my first al anon meeting tomorrow.

Now that the situation has changed I'm just asking what I should do and what we should do. We love each other and want to be a part of the others life. I'm the only friend he has that won't drink around him and we have wonderful sober fun. I just don't know what to do anymore.

lillamy

I would go to Al-Anon.

Magichappens

I agree with lillamy. Al-anon taught me how to take care of myself in my relationships. In the ones with alcoholics, my care-taking nature got me run over. I had to learn to be strong within myself and get support from people who were like me. Alcoholics and the Al-anons that are around them need each other, but we can also hurt each other very much.

Whether Mr. Magic is doing well, or not so well, I have to make sure I don't let his stuff make me crazy. When I go crazy, I usually do a lot of emotional harm to the people around me, damaging my relationships even more. Al-anon gives me the support and tools to deal with relationships with myself, the alcoholic, God, and everyone else in my life. If I had to pick one thing that could help your situation right now, I would say to find an Al-anon meeting in your area and go.

I learned the hard way that if I don't change, "it" don't change. No matter how the alcoholic is doing, I am not going to be ok until I fix what is inside of me. Good luck, and hugs!! Magic

Girl49

[QUOTE=jblocutus1701d;3366134]...his sponsor told him that he can't handle a relationship...I'm going to my first al anon meeting tomorrow. /QUOTE]

Hi. I'm new here and also going to first Al-Anon meeting today. You sound self-aware about good self-care and common sense. Good luck, and I'll be thinking of you. Girl

Thumper

I'm not in AA but it is my understanding that relationships that first year are discouraged because they are a distraction. The steps and recovery work of AA take all of a persons mental and emotional energy - and they can be uncomfortable because they require such honesty etc. During those uncomfortable times it is easy to side step the AA work and get distracted by the relationship - putting mental and emotional energy there instead. That of course, is not good for recovery.

Having said that - I 100% agree with the recommendation to attend al-anon. It will be really helpful for you and if you two maintain the relationship it will be the best thing for the health of the relationship too.

jblocutus1701d

Thanks and anyone else who has advice or other perspectives please keep em coming. Thumper, I understand that relationships are discouraged. I am fully comprehending of the taking focus away from the program to focus on a relationship also; but not everyone who decides to recover and goes to AA leaves their significant other do they? It's a selfish sort of thinking I guess but I want to be there for him because I love him. I'll give him what he needs and right now that's a sober ear to listen, a sober person to be around, and comfort and support. I've shown him and reminded him what he's doing this for and that's him, for the present and his future and all the things that go with it. I just don't get it and I don't know what's best. Forcing friendship when we love each other? Not talking to him and leave him hanging with no one to talk to and a sponsor who hardly ever answers his calls? I want to be supportive in the RIGHT ways, the ways he needs and I want to focus on my needs so I don't lose myself (hence al anon).

Thumper

No not everyone leaves. You two will find your own way with your relationship. The best way to do that is to each focus on your own recovery. Him in AA, and you in Al-anon. Stay out of each others recovery business. I think the thing to keep in mind is that you, no matter how much you love him, are not what he needs to recover. If we were all that was needed for our loved one's to recover this forum would not exist.

As a non-alcoholic, I will never 'get' alcoholism. Not in a million years and thank heavens for that. I don't want to be able to get it. ETA: It does help to get a better understanding though. Have you read through the stickies at the top of this forum? That is a good start. Great stuff up there. They have a 'classical reading' stickie that lists some books for even more reading and information.

Alanonic

I had posted a while ago about my boyfriend and I taking a break while he goes through his AA program.= AA is life long program. It doesnt end. or should say he cant stop going to AA if he wants to stay sober.
You could be going to Alanon so you can heal. I dont know why his sponsor is talking to him about breaking off the relationship unless your using. I dont know. What is the main idea here is him staying sober with no obstacles. Its like the opposite of when he was drinking...he got rid of all the obstacles that was in his way of drinking. So are you in his way of staying sober? Its a life or death situation.. Big Book.

jblocutus1701d

That's just it, I'm not using. I told him that I support his sobriety and that me drinking right now wouldn't be doing that. I know I can if I want, but I don't want to. I also know that AA is a lifelong program. I should have written that it was while he was starting it. I don't think that I'm an obstacle to his sobriety either. He said the stress that CAN come from a relationship might be too much right now and that's fine. He needs to do what he needs to do. I can't pretend to "get" alcoholism either but isn't his program about learning to handle the stress that comes from life without picking up a drink as a solution? If I thought that being with him would actually cause him to drink, I wouldn't be asking these questions. I also realize that when he's already feeling like he wants a drink he might try to FIND things to drink over that he can blame on outside sources, and part of recovery is learning that there is NOTHING you can blame for wanting a drink or relapsing aside from yourself. To me it just seems that his sponsor is telling him to run from things that might cause problems instead of helping him to deal with the problems with a clear and sober head when and if they arise. Shouldn't he be finding OTHER coping mechanisms to learn to deal with life rather than running from things that might cause stress or difficulty? Isn't that what the drinking was kind of about in the first place? A way to run or hide from life, stress, etc?

This is why I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it I guess. I understand that in the beginning it's REALLY hard and that simple things can cause you to snap, but I thought that AA was about teaching you to overcome those things without alcohol, not run from them in other ways. That was NOT a jab at AA by the way. The program has my full respect and support. It's this one part that makes zero sense to me. Alcoholics don't drink because people or situations drive them to drink, they drink because they're alcoholics and that's how they've dealt with problems. How is telling a sponsee to leave a loved one not hiding, running from, or avoiding problems when they're trying to learn to face them head on in the first place?

I understand what AA says about starting a NEW relationship but getting rid of your old ones when they fully support your sobriety? Shouldn't you be keeping those people around?

ODAT63

After much pain, over two years in al-anon, therapy, praying and reading I GOT IT, they are so full of S**t, they will lie and blame you for EVERY THING.
Today I don't believe a SINGLE WORD that comes from an Alkie and my life is so much better and healthier and happier.

theuncertainty

I'm just curious, and you don't have to answer, just something to include in your private musings: did you get the new information from your BF or directly from the others involved in his program that gave him the idea?

Several points that I'd personally consider:

• If I'd been in a relationship with some one for what I considered to be a significant amount of time and he broke it off with me simply because some one else told him to, I'd be reluctant to get back together with him.
• From this side of dealing with an alcoholic and all the lies he told me so that I'd take him back, I'd be incredibly leery of his story switch. It reminds me of when I left AXH and he realized just how many bills were connected to keeping the place we had had together rented, lit, heated and entertained. Those bills seriously cut into this paycheck.

From "I'm breaking it off with you." to "I didn't really want to, but they said to, so.... But, now, I want you back..." Hmmm, I don't think I'd take that as very flattering; I know I didn't in junior high, which was the last time I heard it from a boy I was going steady with.

One further note, if he's not getting the support he needs from his sponsor, it's in his best interest to find one who can help him. The excuse that his sponsor doesn't return calls is just that: an excuse. If he wanted to, he could find a sponsor who is a better fit.

Wishing you strength, peace and luck.

jblocutus1701d

theuncertainty, the reason he broke it off because someone told him to was because he was trying to do everything his sponsor said initially. He was scared of the direction he was heading and his sponsor told him that he was ABSOLUTELY GOING to hurt me or drink over me or both. I really don't think that's good advice. I don't know what it's like to be an alcoholic, and I won't pretend to know everything, but I've gained a lot of insight on the topic as of late. So my question is, isn't a sponsor supposed to show him how to not drink over problems? I also think he needs a new sponsor, but how do I suggest this? I just went to my first al anon meeting and the one thing everyone kept repeating was to remember that it isn't my problem, be detached, don't take his inventory, etc.; but c'MON..continuing with a sponsor who is HARDLY there, when he answers he isn't fully available, and telling your sponsee to leave behind the people who support his recovery and are a source of support just doesn't sound right to me. Again, I won't pretend to know it all but this doesn't seem right from where I'm standing.

theuncertainty

Hi, JB. I was just saying I'd have a hard time trusting some one who dropped me because other people told him to, but I do have to admit to the fact that I would not be able to trust an alcoholic who is just starting to find the path to recovery. Period. You're different from me. Your BF is different from AXH. We can offer our experience, support and hope, but in the end you need to listen to your instincts on the situation.

Again, just for your reflection, no need to answer here, which was the way it went down? Was it "them" or his sponsor?

The thing is, no matter what any of of say, even if we were all to unanimously go out on a limb - without having been present for any of the conversations - and voice "Yeah, I believe your ABF that the Sponsor told him he MUST break up with you and that it was an inappropriate thing to say." It doesn't change anything. Your boyfriend still has to work his own recovery. It's up to him to select a sponsor who will meet his support needs, just like it'd be up to you to find your own sponsor in Alanon. As Thumper said, it's best to stay out of each others' recovery work.

I'm guessing that like in Alanon, in AA, a sponsor is there to help support the newer member, to offer guidance. A sponsor shares their experience, they aren't a teacher; they're simply members further along in the AA program who are also trying to live without alcohol. They don't have the answers.

ETA: It's the program, not the sponsor, that helps the member maintain equilibrium (or sobriety).

Freedom1990

I got what I needed in the fellowship and rooms of AA. I made a whole new circle of friends, who had a listening ear and comforted/supported me when I needed it.

I also discovered years later when my oldest daughter was in active addiction that I had to completely step back and let her make her own choices, poor though they may be. Alanon was and continues to be a huge source of support for me.

jblocutus1701d

I understand that he can get support from other fellow AA members. What I meant by what I said was that as far as friends and family go, I’m the only one offering support and encouragement.
I’m done worrying about what’s going to happen to “us”. I love him deeply, he knows how I feel, it’s his choice and I have no control over that, I’ve already chosen to stick by him while letting him do this for himself. The main thing I took away from last night’s Alanon meeting was detachment, but I’m a bit fuzzy on where he and I draw the line.
His sponsor either doesn’t answer his calls or is only ½ listening anymore. If ABF calls me distressed about it again is it my place to say that if he is unhappy with his sponsor, the only one who can change that is him? Would that be overstepping my bounds? I know that when it comes to his recovery and his program that my opinion holds no weight, but it just seems as though his sponsor is too busy and the advice that ABF is getting doesn’t appear very proactive.
I want to know where the line that I can’t cross is so that I can stop thinking about it and focus on my own personal growth. There are the boundaries for a couple with one in AA and the other in Alanon? If he ASKS my opinion or advice can I give it or do I have to tell him that it’s up to him? He is very excited that I’m focusing me more on myself and that we get to go through this period of personal growth and betterment together even though we’re doing it on our own, we get to share the “transformation” with each other I guess. I just want to know where that line is that we can’t cross with each other’s programs. I feel so much better having a place to go to where I can ask these questions to people who’ve been there. Thank you everyone. Any advice is appreciated honestly!

theuncertainty

Hi, again. I don't have experience dealing with a BF or H who happens to be in AA. AXH is still in denial about his drinking, but my mom's boyfriend (lets call him Joe) just celebrated his 1 year. I'm not as emotionally tied to him maintaining his sobriety as I think I would be if he was my significant other or had to see him more often (they live 2000 miles away). It sounds rather terrible, but I often forget that AXH is not the only qualifier in my life.

Joe and I talk about the AA and Alanon programs rarely, more often now that he's more involved in AA than he was before, and, honestly, probably because I'm not as p-ssy or defensive about AXH's drinking as I used to be. He doesn't ask for my opinion on his sponsor or program and I don't ask him for his opinion on mine (or lack thereof) in Alanon. General questions, yes. Advice, no.

The line that you're asking about probably depends a great deal on your relationship and how the information requested or relayed is honestly intended. With those in mind, I think that line is rather changeable and not a solid line at all, possibly more like the line a wave leaves on a beach before it recedes. *shrug*

Maybe the difference is in the emotional content behind the question or answer. As in, if the answer given is X, and if there's a vested interest in the answer being X or there will be hurt feelings or disappointment when the answer is Y or answer Y is used instead, then best to step back and say, "I'm sorry, I think it's best for both of us if you work this one out for yourself."

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html

Magichappens

Nowhere in the Big Book of AA does it say anything about breaking off relationships to avoid drinking. This is a concept that came from somewhere outside of AA. I have heard people tout it, but it is not AA. The Big Book talks about mending relationships. They even have a chapter called "To Wives" and "The Family Afterwards".

The original AA members believed in recovering from alcoholism by incorporating the whole family in the process. The people that have the mentality that people need to throw out relationships in order to get sober have not worked the AA program that is laid out in the book. They have made up their own version of AA, and "sponsor" people without having any idea what they are doing. I highly recommend to anyone who has an alcoholic in their life to read the Big Book. Then, if someone in a meeting tries to give you a line of sh*#, you will know it. Hugs, Magic

Thumper

I don't know where the 'official line' is or if there even is one. I have not been in the exact position you are in. The experience I can share comes from that fact that my xah asked me my opinion a lot. He still does sometimes.

I used to freely give my opinion on any and all topics. It was a problem. We were together for a long time - neither one of us in recovery - and looking back I can see what a terrible dynamic that set up in our relationship. We each had our own problems that would make a relationship hard but this was the primary thing we did 'together' that was so so destructive to any kind of a mutually respectful, functional, adult relationship.

For one thing if I am doing all the advising, thinking, researching, coming up with ideas etc. he is passively sitting there doing nothing. It sort of feels like something is being accomplished but nothing is happening. He is not invested at all. I finally saw that if my xah wanted something (recovery, sponsor, job, whatever) he knows how to get it with zero help from you. He fiddled around because it just wasn't important enough - and if I was doing all the 'work' (ie thinking, researching, advising, etc.) then he gave himself a free pass to just not think about it. Oh he'd wring his hands and complain - but I was doing all the thinking. I was the one invested, not him. I also eventually saw that if I advised, gave an opinion or suggestion, etc. it became my responsibility. He relieved himself of all responsibility and consequences because he had no investment, no commitment. He was buying time to just continue doing what he was doing with no real changes.

With the help of SR what I do now (with everyone not just xah) is picture in my head a street. You are standing on your side, and he is standing on his. Your side of the street is your autonomy. Your responsibility. Don't let the trash pile up. Trash meaning co-dependent behaviors, thoughts, actions and any other area you find needs work or that is your responsibility. He's in charge of his side and his trash. When you have a question about where the line is, imagine which side of the street it is on. If it is on his side (ie his feelings, his questions, his choices, his behavior), you can offer support in the context of listening and saying "That is a tough one. Who could help you with that?" or "I'm sorry it was a rough day." or "What does your recovery program suggest - ask your sponsor." "I see. What are you going to do?" or just a "bummer." If he asks you outright "I don't have the answer to that." "I don't know." "That is up to you." Not snarky just genuine concern without taking ownership or control away from him.

I don't do that with my xah. I no longer touch those questions with a 10' pole because a) I know the trap that hides beneath them and b) I'm no longer his support person. We are divorced and I plan to keep it that way. I use that picture in my head and similar responses for everyone else though.

I also picked up the following from SR and I use it a lot. I had such a hard time with this in the beginning that I had this by all my phones and in my purse and I would read it frequently when it came to interactions with my xah, other family members, even at work. When I apply it I feel so much better about myself and I can feel that others feel better about our interactions too. There is inherent respect to others when we stay on our own side of the street.

Help is what I do for others who can not do it for themselves.

Enabling is what I do for others who can do it for themselves.

If I say it without being asked, it is meddling.

If I say it twice, it's manipulation.


I also have someone in my life that regularly crosses over and mucks around on the wrong side of the street, including mine, and it makes me NUTS to watch and have done to me. I do not want to be that person. There is another person that is supportive while minding her own business/side of the street. She is important to me and I valued her 'style and approach' so much when I was going through a hard time. I want to be more like that.