headstrong

So I'm trying to get more time with my daughter. I am 93 days sober today. Five months ago my ex-fiance files a restraining order against me because of my drinking habits and my behavior while I was drinking. Effectively kicking me out of the house and taking away the right to see my, then, 11 month old daughter. Just last month she let me have three hours during the week, then five hours of supervised visitation on the weekend. My aunt is supervising in her house. I still haven't been able to go back to the house to get my belongings, but that is another story.

I told my ex that I wanted to spend more time with my daughter. Of the time spent, 30 minutes each way in the car and one hour if she requires a nap. So the five hours effectively becomes three hours and the three hours effectively becomes two per week. She feels she is being generous giving me any time at all. I told her that it was unacceptable. That I wanted unsupervised visits. I am about to tell her that I want every other weekend (when she works) and an overnight.

She hasn't asked for any child support until now. Though I did send her a check last month out of good faith and have offered to pay off any remaining medical bills. If I am going to help financially support my daughter, I feel I have the right to ask for more time. We haven't gotten the family courts involved and I would like to keep it that way hoping she will come to her senses and quit playing the victim card.

I guess I am looking for anyone who has been in a similar situation to share their experience. How long was it before the other parent started trusting again? Is 90 days really too soon to get more visitation? What is a reasonable amount of visitation?

Pigtails

I think 90 days is pretty short compared to however long you spent drinking. I would advise you to be patient and give it time. Keep doing everything in your power to see the child but also understand that you have to earn trust and that takes time. Also, pay child support, because it's the child's right whether or not the mother asks for it. And if it ends up in court you won't get any points for not paying child support even if the mother hasn't asked. Just stay sober and do everything in your power to do the right thing. Congrats on your sobriety, you can do this.

2granddaughters

Yes, I see headstrong there. Perhaps you shouldn't be "telling them what you want" at this time.
After about 5 yrs my wife started to trust me, and she probably shouldn't because I'm an alcoholic and always will be.

Wishing you the best.

Bob R

headstrong

Maybe not what I really wanted to hear, but I will deal. I have struggled with alcohol for the last 5 or 6 years. The relationship was 18 months, half of which we argued about my alcohol consumption and didn't start arguing about it until my daughter was born. I realize forgiveness isn't going to happen overnight, if ever. That is my need for instant gratification getting the best of me. I realize my daughter needs to be taken care of financially, but I feel that my rights are being trampled on as a father and nobody seems to bat an eye.

Pojman

Wow... This one made me think for a minute.. Bob - your right..

wellwisher

Unfortunately, having a restraining order against you for abusing alcohol doesn't put you in a power position.

I grew up in an alcoholic home - no fun, no fun at all.

I am also an alcoholic. My program would tell me to frame the problem something like this: I am grateful to be allowed to see my daughter even though I have a restraining order against me; I pay child support because it is the right thing to do and all my gifts given have no strings attached but are given freely, and I need to take care of myself first so I can then take the best care of my daughter in the future.

Want to see your sobriety and contentment fall apart? - start DEMANDING things.

All my best...

Pigtails

It's good that you realize that your need for instant gratification is getting the best of you. I can relate to that and that's why I advised you to try to be patient and understand that trust takes a long time to be re-built and it's really out of your control, whether she ever trusts you again or not. It sounds like she spent most of the relationship trying to tell you that your drinking was a problem but at least you are getting the message now and are doing the right thing.

As far as your rights being trampled on as a father and nobody seems to bat an eye... I am not sure of your situation and whether you have a lawyer and/or are in court etc. You do have the right to see your child but a judge would likely have concerns about your past history with alcohol use and your behavior while on alcohol. Also at least in my state the judges look at the status quo and what has gone on up until this point... if the child has been living with her mother and only seeing you occassionally, that is likely to last until some big changes are made and the child can get used to it. If you are in court you will likely have to submit to drug/alcohol assessment, tests and treatment, as well as parenting classes and perhaps anger management courses etc. and prove to the court that you are addressing your issues so that you can be a better parent/co-parent with the mother. Again this is how it works in my state and all states/areas are different but in general what I'm saying is that in the eyes of the court, the child's mother and society you are fighting an uphill battle. So just keep climbing and don't let resentments or anger hold you back. Be patient and keep doing the right thing and eventually you will show you are trust-worthy... even if the child's mother never trusts you, the court will eventually let you see your child if you have proven that you are not a threat or a danger. Best wishes. Stay sober, you're worth it and so is the child.

ru12

Go talk to a strong father's rights lawyer. If you like what he has to say retain him and let him work on this issue. He will protect your rights and make sure you have all the visitation that the law allows. If you don't know how to find a lawyer that specializes in father's rights, contact the Wisconsin Bar Association and ask for a referral.

Mark75

Pray on this a good long time. Resentment is a dangerous and insidious thing, especially for the recovering alcoholic. Feeling righteous about/over a resentment can be even more destructive.

The title of your thread... Some of your words... Indicates that perhaps this is not just about the daughter you love and how much time you have with her.

You say this is "unacceptable" ... well, given that you find yourself with a restraining order against you, it's safe to say that some of your behavior has been, well, unacceptable.

Relax. Get some recovery time. Enjoy and be grateful for the time you spend with your daughter. Let your STBXW get some space, let her get her bearings about her, how she feels, all that. Show her some respect and dignity.... You get sober.

"Reasonable" is in the eye of the beholder. Never forget that.

Keep posting!

Anna

There is lots of good advice here.

I also think your daughter deserves your financial aid, whether or not you're able to see her. She is your child and she has the right to have you take care of her financially. As Pigtails pointed out drug/alcohol testing could be necessary, as well as you taking parenting classes. I hope you do whatever it takes.

headstrong

The restraining order makes things especially difficult. It was only during the de novo hearing a month ago that she suggested Our Family Wizard as a means to communicate. It is hard to regain someones trust when you can't communicate with them. As far as restraining orders, a woman doesn't need a reason to get one. They hand them out like candy at Halloween. I'm not saying I was an angel, but I didn't do anything near to where I think a restraining order was the appropriate action. The good news is that the injunction was originally set for four years. She voluntarily had it reduced to one year during the same de novo hearing. So I have to giver her some credit.

I make demands because if I don't, I won't get what I want. I demand a thousand feet hoping to get just a few. Maybe that isn't the right thing to do at this time. I only had one year of shame, not 20. I think I have minimized the damages to the best of my ability. I have taken the high road and did all of the right things up until now.

I am very resentful. The restraining order. The arrest warrants for violating the restraining order (I went to get my car. All charges accept a disorderly conduct were dropped.) The kidnapping of my daughter. I am in fight or flight mode right now ready to say eff it, move out of state, and write them off. My blood gets pumping when I think about my daughter. I have been tempted to take that first drink, but then that would just make things worse if she ever found out.

But then I think about the little time that I have had with her, how she is growing, and how much she really means to me. I am willing to fight to see her. I did threaten her with a lawyer last night to regain my rights as a father. My words were something to the effect of we can be adults about this or we can let the courts decide. I told her I need her to meet me half way, meaning more time with my daughter. I'm sure I am pushing her beyond her comfort zone with regards to visitation. I'm willing to take that chance.

ABIDEBYLAW

Have you had a paternity test? The percentage of births in The Domestic Lawlessness system where the mother/plaintiff claims the defendant is the Father due to him having a better job, etc., is astounding.
Having a restraining order issued through the court merely requires the complainant to claim a wrong and requires almost no physical evidence. I have seen judges issue them without even reading the report. You could have gone to the court before her and claimed that the was an unfit mother, was on illegal drugs, was on intense psychotherapy, was unable to work, required psychiatric medication just to survive her day to day life, etc., and she would have had the restraining order on her instead of the opposite. Never fear a restraining order.
If you are determined to be the Father and wish to have visitation rights, you can either hire an attorney, or represent yourself as a Pro Se plaintiff and file several motions with your local domestic relations court (Motion to show cause, for attorney expenses, for custody, for child support, for psychological evaluation of her, and many other options). If you file first and prepare properly, even you being at an extreme disadvantage being a Man, you still have a shot at custody.
With that said, I agree that since she started making the allegations, and remember that is all they are, you trying to come to an amicable agreement between youselves without the involvement of the unjust court system should be considered. Do not trust what she says, but listen and act as if you do believe her.
Only pay her in a documented manner, by check will work. This will help you prove to the court that you have been a reliable Father and have been paying for your child's "best interests" even before you were forced to. My friend paid by check for approximately a year without court involvement and his ex was stupid enough to later file against him and signed an affidavit that she had not received any money from him at all during that time. He produced all of the documentation and she was proven to be a psychiatric mess and a liar.
In reference to when a parent, custodial parent, etc., will "trust" again? Probably never because it is in her "best interests" to parental alienate the Father from the child due to her needing to keep custody of the child and for her to keep receiving her child support, etc..
Hang in there and keep yourself sober. If you do not and start drinking again, you basically have no case for custody. Do it for your daughter.
Any questions, PM me. Good luck!

Dee74

Maybe all this isn't just about you tho, headstrong?

This thread title disturbs me to be honest because, to me, children should never be in the middle.

I think you've gotten some great advice in this thread.
I hope you'll sit with it a while.

D

jobei

I am in the process of going through a very similar situation. My daughter is 6 and her mother and I have been split up for 4 years now. She also filed a restraining order preventing me from seeing my daughter. For the last 4 years we managed to keep the court out of our lives... but it came to a point that we just didn't have any understanding or communication between us. We went to court and worked with a mediator and things are a lot better now since we both love our daughter and follow the judge's orders. I pay my child support and there's hard records of it. My advice is to get a lawyer and file for partial custody. Get your child support officially recognized by the court. Set up regular visitation days and STICK to them no matter what. OTHERWISE it's your word vs hers and since she is the primary parent now the court will listen to her... and rightfully so. It's not just about being a man or a woman... the courts look at who the child lives with and gives that parent priority.

macknacat

i was in a similar position. But i discovered [by doing 12 step work BTW] that all the restraining orders , time away, etc etc were very real consequences of my very real behavior.
So instead of agitating for all my "rights" [like i always did when drinking/using] , i went about a new way of living. Paid my child support on time. became gainfully employed. paid my back taxes. stayed clean and sober. learned how to be of service to others. did what i said i would do when i said i would do it.
So it was that i had a few years clean and sober . I wasn't "trying" to get my kid back other than being the best Dad i could be . One New Years i realized that i had actually been paying more attention to chasing women than to being a father . So i just prayed: "this year. please. help me be a better dad" . fast forward 4 or 5 months. My son and i are camping on a little island . Had a nice fire . He turns to me : "Dad .I wanna come live with you. " long pause while i am thinking hard about all the legal BS i need to get going. then he sez: " and Mom thinks I should too".... so thats what he did...lots of lessons there-

Pigtails

Hi Headstrong, I'm sorry but I just have to point out that this:

Really seems to contradict this, which you said earlier:

It sounds to me like your drinking was a factor in the restraining order and what has led you to this point. If you hadn't been drinking, you likely wouldn' t have been acting in a way to provoke her to get a restraining order against you. At least based on your own words....

You also said this:

It sounds to me like the mother of your child has had a problem with your drinking, and/or that your drinking caused problems between the two of you, for much of the relationship. Now that you have a daughter, the mother of your child is doing what she thinks is necessary to protect the child. It is a natural thing to do. I understand how easy it is to get restraining orders (and believe me, it doesn't only happen to men.... a man can easily go get a restraining order against a woman... but *usually* there is some provoking action, such as unwanted contact, drinking, etc., and in your case you acknowledged that it was your behavior due to drinking). So I would really recommend you just concentrate on yourself... take the other people (the court, the mother of your child...) out of the equation and just look at your own actions and how you can do better from here on out, for your own sake and your daughter's. I say this out of experience, as I am working my Fourth Step in AA and learning that many of the resentments I have over people and institutions have been caused by my own actions or reactions... and it is so much simpler (but in a way harder) to just take everyone else out of it and look at my own actions. But that is how we learn and grow and do better. Best wishes.

ABIDEBYLAW

"It's just not about being a man or a woman", in the Domestic lawlessness system it certainly is!

Divorce and Fatherhood Statistics

Let me give you one example of millions similar in the plight of the non custodial parent, aka the working parent....predominantly the poor Father!

My friend has an ex that can not work, has a documented history of psychiatric disorders, requires psychiatric medications daily, requires intense psychotherapy, has been investigated by children's services, has a criminal history, has fed their daughter to the verge of obesity.... Mother is afraid to leave the house and uses food as a means to buy the child's temporary love by overfeeding her to where the child is ridicluled, bullied, and is on the verge of medical issues due to her mother feeding her to near death..

He on the other hand is a College graduate, respected religious person, volunteer tutor to refugee children, respected police officer for over 20 years, the best with kids, obviously no criminal or medical/psychiatric history.....
and the better parent by a thousand times over...... but what did the court do to him even though he played the game and paid several attorneys????

"The psychiatric history of the plaintiff is confidentail and can not be dislcosed" (Hippa), so is the Guardian ad litem report, criminal history is off limits also,
They needed her to have custody so his medical insurance and his salary would pay for child support and the medical and the court system through Social Security Act Title IV-D, yeah look it up, could break up families and give the custodial-non working-parent, guess who that is???? custody and the court systens get their cut/blood money as well.
The poor childrenare forced to live with a mess of a mother.... it breaks my heart.
Have a nice day, I have to go to work to pay for so many others I never met.

Mark75

With all due respect ABIDE, the poster has readily admitted that alcohol has been a big problem in the relationship with this innocent 10 month old's mother and lead to the dissolution of that relationship and to a restraining order.

Perhaps rather than going out and hiring lawyers and fighting the system... Maybe getting sober, getting his life back together and becoming a reliable and trustworthy parent, i.e., a sober one... might be a more reasonable course of action with long term benefit?

Anna

Headstrong, there is a lot of good advice here.

You could learn a lot by listening to Mackanat's story. Work on your recovery and yourself and the rest will fall into place.

It really scares me that you seem to think you should get custody and visitation just because that's what you want. What is best for your daughter? Your needs should be secondary to hers.

Pigtails

I am quite familiar with the family law court system and that just isn't how it happens in my jurisdiction. Here both parties' criminal history is pulled by the court (the court clinic mediator/settlement facilitator and the hearing officer/judge) even if there are no lawyers and even if there are laywers but the lawyers don't bring up criminal history. There is a strict formula that the court looks at in terms of prior arrests, any history of drug or alcohol abuse or investigations by CYFD etc. in terms of deciding custody and the best interest of the child, which is the standard. Psychological issues/medical records are less standard but if there are allegations that the issues affect parenting then the court will look at the records. When there is evidence of abuse or drug/alcohol addiction/abuse on either side, the courts in my jurisdiction take it very seriously-- some might argue a bit "too" seriously, as in, if one side alleges the other smokes pot, and then the other side says "no I don't but he does," then both will be sent for testing and assessment, even if there are no allegations that it affects the parenting. But in my opinion it's better to be safe than sorry and if someone is actually abusing druugs or alcohol then it DOES affect their parenting. Yes, the "breadwinner" (which is very often the mother nowadays-- there are as many real-life stereotypes of the "deadbeat dad" as there are the "bon-bon-eating housewife"....) usually ends up bearing more of the financial responsibility/child support, but it also depends on how much time he or she has the child in their custody.

So anyway I am sorry your friend had this experience, and I don't know how it happened... sometimes the quality of legal representation, if any, on both sides does come into play but in my state, at least, there are very strict standards the court looks at in terms of the best interst of the child. So for the purposes of Headstrong's thread, yes, I think he should pursue all avenues to make sure his child knows he loves her and wants to be in her life, including legal avenues to ensure he has as much custody/visitation as possible, but when you have a father who admits to having problems caused by drinking and a restraining order against him by the mother due to that, and who hasn't paid child support because he hasn't been asked, and who is in early recovery from alcoholism, the mother and the court are rightfully going to be on guard and it has nothing to do with sexism or bias, just that in this situation this father should work on himself and slowly re-integrate in his daughter's life, which takes patience and humility. That is all I was trying to say. I agree the court system is not perfect, but, it's what he has to work with at this time... life on life's terms.