Lilmssunshine

Have any of you guys struggled with whether or not your A loves you? Are we just pawns in their games?

This is what I struggle with. Ive been friends with my A for 6 months and he started telling me he loves me a month ago. Which to me is early. I think its just infatuated/in love feelings. Not the unconditional type of love. Either way it messes with my head. He has been there when ive needed him the most, acts like he does love me. But the alcohol and the drama that comes with it makes me question him. Ive been in NC with him to detach myself but I still struggle with this..it bothers me.
Im pretty upset that he even uttered those words if he isnt capable of loving because of the disease.

Your thoughts and experiences?

skarletstarlet

I think there are two ways of looking at it.

They do love you, but the drink is taking over (consciously or not).

They don't love you, which is evident in the drink taking over.

I think my AF *DID* love me. He now blames me for his problems (lack of friends, drinking, etc.) Now whether deep down he loves me but its buried in hate, I don't know. But I do know whatever he accuses me of is really a reflection of himself.

"You don't spend time with the kids."

"You are constantly on the computer" (I'd like to add I'm only online when I'm studying, he is currently addicted to world of warcraft as well as drinking. Addictive personalities are ROUGH)

"You don't clean enough."

"You never cook" (I started taking pictures of the meals I made to upload onto facebook because my name was being dragged thru the mud as the fiance who doesn't cook for her family. 7 decent meals in a row. I had to show them to him because he was so drunk he didn't remember me cooking the whole week prior. His tune soon changed!)

"You don't 'buy' things I want to eat" (He is Polish. He immigrated here 7 years ago so yeah maybe I don't know what he wants but its not like he comes out with me and shows me!! That would involve leaving the house!!!)

So really, all of these statements are reflections of himself seeping out of his pores. And he doesn't like it. But he doesn't love me because of them.

Sigh.

suki44883

It's hard to say after only six months. Alcoholics DO grab onto a good thing when they see it though. It's possible that he cares deeply, but alcohol is more pertinent at the moment. It doesn't necessarily mean they love alcohol more than they love you, it's just more important at that time. Alcoholics drink for a lot of reasons, and sometimes those reasons are because they don't love themselves. If you can't love yourself, you can't truly love anyone else. Just words for thought.

skarletstarlet

Suki, what if they were NOT an alcoholic when you met them? Is it in their nature to look for us and then become an alcoholic?

I met my AF at 13. We started dating at 17. I should have known he had an addictive personality. He was smoking pot at least twice daily. It quickly moved up to 8 bowls a day (avg). Then straight to booze as of last Feb.

Cyranoak

I often have the same answer to a myriad of questions and it's the same answer I'll share with you right now-- it doesn't matter; just like it doesn't matter whether people are labeled alcoholic or not.

Their drinking is a problem for you or it isn't. They are either demonstrating love, consistently, through their actions or they are not. The word "love," or the word "alcoholic" really don't have any meaning at all unless the context in which they are said is consistent with the actual words. Especially with drinking alcoholics words have no meaning at all-- none whatsoever. Only after years in recovery/sobriety, IMHO, can you begin to trust what an alcoholic says.

Alcoholism seemed baffling to me for many, many years. Then I realized I was making it far more difficult than it needed to be. No matter what happens I always know if I'm happy or not, I know what I want and need, and I know when I'm getting it (or not). I don't need to figure out alcoholism (which is impossible anyway IMHO).

It's up to me to make the decision I need to make to be happy. That has, unfortunately, meant at times ending relationships. I survived.

Take care,

Cyranoak

itsmylifenow

It's hard to make a judgement about your AB and how he really feels about you but I can at least give you my experience.

My XABF was not only an alcoholic but had been told he was a love addict as well. When I looked that up, wow, did he fit the bill!

He was quick to say I love you, quick to want me as his gf, had me getting out my calendar and planning things after only knowing him a month, became possessive...the list goes on and on.

I do believe my XABF loved me, but he also had major emotional needs that stopped him from really being able to give me a good, healthy love.

I'd be less concerned about his "love" for you and put my attention and focus on the fact that you believe him to be an alcoholic and how living with the drama and chaos would affect you if you were with him. NO amount of love is worth the life you lead with someone who is in love with something that comes in a bottle.

lillamy

Addicts aren't capable of loving, themselves or anyone else. It's been said here before that addicts don't have relationships, they have hostages. I know that to be true. But the first hostage the addiction takes is the addict.

Addicts are incapable of lOving as long as they are actively using.

Hopeworks

Many posters have hit the nail on the head but I will add one thing.

If you ask the addict if they "love" you they will insist they do but what is the working defination of "love"?

For most addicts "love" is a feeling... the butterfly's, rapidly beating heart, lightheadedness, strong sexual desire along with a strong need to be "with" their love interest. This is attraction at it's most basic, physical, chemical, hormonal, visual level that we in our current society label as "love".

But real love is so much deeper than that when you think about rationally (something we codies only do when in recovery ourselves) and true love is a verb that is demonstrated in daily everyday actions that confirm their true love for us.

An addict will not climb the highest mountain, swim the deepest ocean for you and most are completely useless in actually partnering in any meaningful way in taking care of the responsibilites of housekeeping, cooking, yard work, taking care of bills, appointments, child care etc...

Heaven forbid if there is a natural disaster, war, viral outbreak because the addict will not be someone who could help you and your children survive. They will be another helpless child you will have to take care of during the crisis.

So what is love? Are they capable of love? My father was an A and died an alcoholic and he never said he loved us, never showed physical affection and the only love I ever saw was for booze.

My XA said "I love you CONSTANTLY! But he wouldn't do what he knew he needed to do to stay sober and he is relapsed AGAIN... don't tell me you love me SHOW me you love me!

Actions speak louder than words... love is a verb. Look at what they do not what they say.

I don't think true addicts that are not in real recovery are capable of meaningful, healthy love... just my opinion.

StarCat

This.
I think that to someone with an addictive personality, whatever the addiction may be, love is very easily confused with infatuation because the feelings that come with infatuation are the same types of feelings as come with engaging in an addiction.

My father is a workaholic, and when I was younger he was literally addicted to running to the point he would lie to my mother about where he was going, and would run in marathons despite warnings from his doctor that the impacts to his knees from running were wreaking havoc to his joints. My mother was the second woman he dated - the first one wasn't interested in getting married any time soon.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying the natural "highs" of life such as infatuation, but it becomes a problem when one hangs their hat on a reliance for those feelings to return, as if that's what everything is all about.
It's a trap we're all susceptible to - I stayed in a relationship with XABF much longer than I should have just waiting for that feeling to come back before I finally realized that it was never coming back.

Love and reality are so much more than that, but we can't see the things that really matter if we're busy pursuing the "highs."
That's my take on an alcoholic's "love," just as it's my take on the codependent "love" that kept me there for far too long.

Thumper

My thoughts/experiences - yes I think my xah loved me. It was a love that took though. Maybe more like a need. I don't think it was a lie but it wasn't a love that left me feeling fulfilled or safe. It left me depleted and I felt like I needed to protect myself against it. I imagine that has something to do with myself as well as him.

The thing that all addicts lack, pretty much across the board, is honestly. It is just part of addiction - all the denial and dishonesty. Honesty is just not there and it is real hard to love someone when you can't be honest with them or yourself. The alcoholic follows the voice of alcohol no matter what. That is the bottom line - love, no love, started out as love and changed, game playing, pawns, sexual love, parental love, long term love, short term butterfly love - or any other scenario - addiction tramples it all.

Mavis1

I know my alcoholic loved me deeply. I also know his disease won.

I'm a widow.

wanttobehealthy

I think that my AH loved me in his mind in some way that he thought was love.

Me? I loved him in a way that I vowed to and I kept waiting for that in return; you know, the giving a $hit if the other is hurting or needs a shoulder, being happy for each others accomplishments, someone to laugh with, cry with, be there with in good and bad. All things that didn't require negotiations or AH pleading with me to give these things to him.

On the other hand I begged AH for all of the above. He'd throw me a crumb once in a while (say something nice, make a promise of something he had in the works, ask if I'd like to spend time together) and follow through was another matter. I was often sorely disappointed, felt rejected and was told when I showed that I was hurt that I was weak and needy.

I spent years thinking that normal, loving interactions that should be a given in any r/s were me asking for too much and believed that I was "high maintenance" when quite the opposite was true.

At the end of my marriage all I asked for was not to be lied to, and not to be berated in front of our kids. My definition of what loving behavior was had gone from what it SHOULD be to thinking that "love" was not being abused.

So, maybe I am cynical, angry, resentful etc... or maybe I am just being raw and brutally honest but as I see it, any addict who is actively using and not actively engaged in recovery is utterly incapable of love, compassion, empathy etc...

Addicts care about themselves, they want love and affection and praise and coddling but never, ever expect to get anything kind in return-- or if you do, know that it will come with a price.

Freedom1990

In the grand scheme of things, it didn't matter whether he loved me or not.

The truth was I didn't love myself.

I made very poor choices in partners until I got serious about my recovery from codependency.

LaTeeDa

I don't think I ever really knew what love was before recovery. It was never modeled for me in a healthy way. In my family, it had to be earned. Over the years, I have struggled to come to grips with what love is. I think appreciation may be the truest form of love because it requires nothing in return. I also like M. Scott Peck's definition of love from "The Road Less Traveled."

"Love is the will to extend one's self for the purpose of nurturing one's own or another's spiritual growth..."
― M. Scott Peck

L

tiredoftryin

.....

ty for this one, I like it too. I had forgotten this. I have listened to his chapter on Love, it was sent to me by someone in recovery, he sent it on a cassette tape.

I also can identify with you about having to earn love, that is kind of how it was in my family. If I did not make my sister and brother happy, then they had no time for me and if I disappointed the Aunts and my mother, I was lunch meat....lol...

tired