lilactree

...answers, cliches and other really unhelpful oft-repeated 'truisms', especially as repeated by AA.

I've been a member for going on a year. They are very nice people, and I'm sure they mean well. And I'm sure it's working well for many of them. But I can't lie. Some seem to be just 'going through the motions', lecturing newcomers, and trading one addiction for another (namely AA membership).

'Do service' (I have). 'Get a sponsor' (I have). 'Go to meetings (I have--90 in ninety and three every week since'.

If I hear 'stinkin' thinkin', 'plug in the jug', 'take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth', 'bring your body and the mind will follow', or...I'm sorry, but any of the other Grade-Two, dumbed-down repetitions once more, I'm not going to drink, but scream from boredom.

I swear to God (or higher power of your choice), it's like 'Stop Drinking with Barney'. Or 'Abstinence for Dummies'.

Yes, yes, I know, the AA fans' answers are ready. I am defensive. I am 'too smart for my own good', etc...

But seriously, does this dopiness work for anyone who has half a mind left? Is there any room for someone who doesn't want to be a brain-mashed pod person?

No, I don't want to 'pick up', as you put it, but I'm also not exactly inspired by the intellectual vaccuum in these rooms.

stillsleeping

Hey lilac, nice rant! I'm not AA, can't really help with the truisms, but thought I'd say hi

This was new to me. What's plug in the jug? Is that telling you to shut up? Ha! I'm going to use that on my brother...

ReadyAndAble

Welcome to SR. You sound like you could use a hug:

:ghug3

I'm kidding! That's cool if you're not into that scene. AA saved the lives of some of my friends, but I'm more of an AVRT guy myself. No slogans. No warm fuzzies. Just a single question: Are you willing to declare that you will never drink again, and that you will never change your mind?

OK, that's technically two questions I guess.

You should check out the AVRT threads on the Secular Connections forum of this site. There's a guy there, Terminally Unique, who has a lot of info on it. No hugs, no smiley faces, no higher powers or spiritual awakenings over there. Check it out!

InsertNameHere

Plug in the jug I think is like cork in the bottle. But I am not AA either. Any group that has to pander to any and everyone is going to have to be dumbed down in a general way, in order to accommodate those that aren’t all that up there intellectually (not accusing anyone there). But also I imagine that those phrases are in circulation so much because things need to be simple and direct for the newly attempting to be sober person sometimes. It helps to drop your own ideas and beliefs and adopt the groups especially when you are attempting something as monumentally life changing as sobriety. The issue I think you are having is that isn’t enough anymore.

Once again I am not in AA but I would think and this site would testify to the fact that there have to be some pretty smart people in AA groups just like there are everywhere. I would suggest that you find them and start hanging out with them, tell them your grievances from the canned ham approach that while effective for some has just started to wind your clock the wrong way. Maybe you can find a group that steers away from that kind of jargon. From what I hear on SR every group is different maybe it’s time you started to explore new ones if you can.

Just my thoughts, I hope it helps.

Firehazard

Hi Lilac, Thank you for sharing honestly. Definately can relate as I have found myself becoming dissatified with other people in the meeting room before and still do some most days. If I were king of the world things would be different indeed. Ha Ha

Grateful that one of the tools we use allows me to work it out. You inspired in my mind one passage in the basic text from page 417 of the basic text. It helps deal with issues or at least adjust my perception of what is really happening between my ears.

And acceptance is the answer to all my problems today. When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, thing, or situation---some fact of my life----unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place , thing or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment. Nothing, absolutelly nothing, happens in God's world by mistake. Until I coulld accept my alcoholism, I could not stay sober; unless I accept life completely on life's terms, I cannot be happy. I need to concentrate not so much on what needs to be changed in the world as on what needs to be changed in me and in my attitudes.

This doctor goes on in his story on page 420 to say:

Perhaps the best thing of all for me is to remember that my serenity is inversely proportional to my expectations.

stillsleeping

Wise dude. Nice one.

instant

This is funny !!

I don't go to AA. I have a few degrees, but it took me years to get sober.

lilactree

Thanks, guys, for letting me blow off a bit of steam. I'm sorry if that came off too harsh, but I am really getting sick of some of the silliness. And since we're supposed to be honest above all else, I'm starting to feel bad about not 'sharing' that fact at closed meetings. But, truly, the rote and the repetition and the same week-in, week-out droning are just getting to be a bit too much. Maybe I just need a break. Not only can I recite the Big Book and Twelve Steps verbatim, but pretty much every 'witticism', 'insight' and ha-ha 'stop me if you've heard this' yarn by every member in the group. I mean, seriously, I can't be the only one getting bored out of my boots.

Sapling

Can I ask you a question lilactree?....You've been listening to this crazy stuff for over a year.....Have you worked the 12 steps yet with a sponsor?

lilactree

Actually, yes, Sapling. Well, part of them. My sponsor is a writer, like myself. So, she asked me to complete written steps, and then discuss them in person.

I thought, hey...okay. Works for me. What did I know? I was new, and she was the one with experience.

Well....maybe another huge part of the reason I'm disillusioned with the group?

I sent these very detailed, very honest responses to all of her questions and forms. Not only did she--more often than not--- 'lose' them, forget she was sent them, claim they ended up in her spam mail, etc...

But then she was never available for meetings. Okay, maybe she's overextended, has too many sponsees. But, really? I just think she's a bit of a flake. Has more interest in how being a sponsor makes her feel. About how being an AA member makes her feel.

As I said, one addiction for another, IMO...

Sapling

I can't recite all the stuff that you can....But I do remember the part about thoroughly following the path....Not part of it. Sorry your sponsor didn't work out....I'd have found another one...But I wanted it to work...And it did.

Dee74

Hi lilactree
welcome to SR

I'm not in AA, but I know instinctively if what I'm doing isn't doing much but making me bored, resentful, and generally peed off...then I need to make some changes.

Maybe it's as simple as a new sponsor, or a new group...

if, on the other hand, you want to explore other non 12 step options, like Ready said you might like to check out the Secular Connections forum.

Personally I don't mind many of the aphorisms as much as I used to..yeah some are a bit twee...but maybe they've lasted, like INH said, because of that simplicity...and that grain of truth that I think all the best ones have?

D

Sapling

And if you don't like the group...Try another one.

lilactree

Sapling, I have tried every group in this very major metropolitan area (as I said, I did 90 in 90, and still go to three a week). It's not like I haven't shopped around. And, by the way, following 'part' of it wasn't my choice. I was--and still am--willing to see it through. But, thanks.

Sapling

It's a 12 step program....If you do them like it says in the book...It works...Good luck.

lilactree

Once again, Sapling, I'm being as clear as I can. I am not deliberately doing 'part of them', or doing them unlike it says in the book. I am not doing them 'half-arsed'...lol. The *only* reason I've discontinued, is because my sponsor has been AWOL. I'm not exactly supposed to do them on my own, as you know.

Anyway, it's funny. I can't help but notice that the resistance I get from AA members, when I even simply, politely try to bring up my concerns....is very much like the resistance I got from my (largely alcoholic) family when I tried to tell them I had a drinking problem in the first place.

Touched nerves, automatic defenses, denial, unwillingness to listen, hostility, anger that I might introduce something they didn't want to examine themselves. In other words, na na na, I can't hear you! Don't want to listen to you! How dare you!

Sorry, but I don't need that. And don't see how it helps anyone. On either side.

TigerLili

Time to get a new sponsor by the sounds of it. The Steps, especially the first three, don't require lengthy written essays. The first three steps are decisions/realisations. Chapters 5, 6 and 7 of the Big Book take you through the Steps. Your sponsor should be going through that as written, not telling you to write essays, IMO.

I had a lot of people tell me to shut up and listen to my sponsor when I complained about her, so I did. The upshot was that she kept me on Step 4 for a year and I ended up relapsing. Now, I'm looking for a sponsor who is willing to take me through the Steps in short order, not drag it out for months.

BillyPilgrim

I think that if you have decided AA doesnt work for you, it wont. I am with you on a lot of the attitude. It does work for some people, so I am not going to knock it because my mantra is "whatever works".

Whilst you will get some big book bashing AA people on this site, you will also get others who have worked other ways to sobriety

My main grouch with AA is they dont like optimists - shares are always about how bad things were. Dont get me wrong things get bad for alkies

However SR is like a supermarket of competing religions (a bit like reality really) look around SR, I think that there is a lot of sense here, and also a lot of nonsense.

However, generally, people express opinions that they feel , you get listened to (try doing that in an AA meeting when everyone is out to outpain everyone else like Monty Pythons 4 Yorkshiremen) People will express an opinion, or give you advice, the opinion can be taken with a pinch of salt, the advice is usually sage (in that it generally says dont drink)

AA works because it is a community of people who want to join it. If you dont want to join it, you will never become part of that community, and it wont work for you.

Try another way. It is out there, and possibly in here.
Billy

MemphisBlues

Get a new sponsor. Period.

Those slogans, which I hear int he meetings, are not the AA program. I f I could simply put the plug in the jug, I wouldn't need AA.

My sponsor and I write our step work, but she is there for me 24 hours a day, and we certainly discuss the step work in person.

Actually, the only step to be written according to the first 164 pages of the big book is our 4th and 8th, but, hey, it ain't 1940 anymore.

I think those slogans have probably killed many true alcoholics.

Fire the sponsor. Pray about getting a new one. Get a new temporary.

I suspect the only slogan Dr. bob And Bill W. uttered was "keep it simple."

To me, that means focusing on the steps.

Although I have used "forms" for step work, I suspect those are really from the rehab industry.

As long as I can keep in context that the 164 pages were written by relatively rich white men with deep Christian backgrounds and sexist to boot, when I just focus on the black part of the page, there's incredible wisdom there.

And not one of those blasted slogans.

Many have been able to go through the pages and find relevant passages that fit the slogans, which is fine, but I think they are dangerous.

Get a new sponsor.

And as my Buddhist sponsor says, "Have you prayed about it?"

langkah

Perhaps, given your gifts you have a responsibility to raise the level of discussions in your meetings.

For example, if someone were to say 'it's not important why the donkey fell in the ditch, the important thing is to get him out', if you're still being called on you could speak to Spinoza's views regarding the problems that this statement both identifies and solves, as well as where it may leave a thinking person somewhat unsatisfied. Not neglecting the obvious history of 'donkey' as metaphor.

Were the line 'we know only a little' to come up you'd have a truly golden opportunity to help everyone out tremendously.

Or you might accept that this variety of conflict is common among people who get past a year and therefore typically feel they are indescribably incredible for accomplishing that and suddenly have the duty to set everyone straight.

Having been through that my suggestion is to begin your search to discover the depth and weight in AA you've missed to this point and not be too strident in your correction of those who are plainly in error in so many ways and painful to you in their ignorance.

Otherwise, if you're very fortunate you'll carry the seriously embarrassing memories of doing that for a long time.

Overall it has to do with another surrender to be made, and the knowledge slowly dawning on you that despite your specialness and natural gifts you will not be able to finesse this thing and exit this solution that has finally worked so well for you.

That despite all the many difficult changes you've made to become this amazing you will have to further change, adjust and find a way to make it work long term among people who often will irritate you is seriously bad news. My sympathies on that, as I know how hard that is to accept.

One way to look at it is in terms of experience living sober and how best to reach those just coming in and looking for a solution. After you've done this last year 9 times more you'll have not only your special gifts to enable you to make a difference in helping them, but you'll then have the knowledge of doing real life in a variety of circumstances for a while.

That combination, together with steady actions on your part could be put to great use and thus give your life some small positive value. You might look to those who have done that which you might someday also do in order to begin to gain an insight of it's meaning to them.

So much ahead to learn from doing so many things. Now that you're physically sober and beginning to grow a little bit emotionally over the coming years, a great adventure can begin for you.

Or, you could turn your eyes and kid yourself there's nothing below the surface of AA and no one of your high caliber or greater (gasp!) could ever have found deep meanings and incredible intellectual challenges there, so you need not even make the effort to look. Taking the easy way, in other words.