A Little Help...

Old 03-22-2012, 01:52 PM
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A Little Help...

My fiance and I have been together for two years. The first year was great! He's kind, gentle, funny, sincere, thoughtful, attentive and a really good listener. We decided to get married. We've been engaged for a little over a year.

During the first year he rarely drank at all. The second year, a different story, he began to drink more and more. At first I wrote it off to typical divorced male stuff. But then he began to drink alone and a lot.

Typically he is a "happy drunk", but sometimes he would turns all pedantic and want to "debate".

We were on holiday and he drank about a twelve-pack every day. On several occasions he drank so much the night before that he wanted some "hair of the dog". He told me he was just enjoying his vacation too much. I asked him to slow it down, telling him that couldn't possibly be healthy. I never asked him not to drink. He said he would. He later confessed to me that he didn't slow down, he'd hidden it. I had suspected that but never accused him of such because I know I wouldn't appreciate that.

He works hard all week long. He drinks 1 beer nearly every day. On the weekends he goes harder. He'd gotten into the habit of drinking about six "tall cans" on Saturday and that much again on Sunday. He went through a bout of drinking Jack & Coke from the time he got off on Friday until Sunday night. He recently confessed to me that when he drinks Jack he can't stop, and that he was getting up (on the weekends only) and having it first thing in the morning to ward off the hangover from the night before and that would get it all started again.

I knew that he was drinking to much but had no idea how much(the liquid breakfast freaks me out). The reason he confessed this to me, which he did in a sober state, was because I'd had enough. When he drinks Jack Daniels he's not nice. He thinks he's all philosophical and debating, but he's really just being an obnoxious ass. I told him this. After having several rational conversations with him and telling him this isn't what I want in a spouse and that I will not be married to a drunk I'd had all I could take of it. I told him I've wasted enough of my life and that I'm not wasting another minute on someone who has no intention of being responsible or adult. I also told him I was fully aware that I have no control over what he does, but if this is the life he wants to live for him to please tell me now. I'll make my decisions from there as this isn't what I want and not how I'll live. He can stop the drunken stupors or I could walk. The choice was his. It took me some time to get to that point, but I mean it. I will. It isn't an empty threat.


That was two months ago. He hasn't been drunk since then. We had a long conversation about what it means to drink in moderation. He would say before, "Oh I'm having a beer". To him that meant a beer or ten. We talked about the fact that "having a beer" means just that "a" beer. One or two should be plenty and if he can't stop at that he shouldn't have any. I also told him that if that is the way he reacts to drinking Jack Daniels that Jack is NOT his friend and he needs to sever the relationship, which he's done. That doesn't mean he's stopped drinking. He does have one or two beers and then he's done. That is the way it has been for the last two months.

My question is how to build back trust. Because he hid these things from me, I wonder the next time he wants to do something he thinks I won't approve of will he just try to hide it? I've talked to him about this and he knows full well I have trust issues with him now. He says he doesn't want to lose me over alcohol and he's aware that he has to rebuild the trust he lost. He acknowledges the damage he's done to our relationship and would like the opportunity to earn back my trust. Having read the "quakers" portion of this forum I am now very wary of these proclamations.

At no point have I really been angry. The drinking scares the hell out of me. Even though I understand why he hid it from me(mostly because he was embarrassed) he still hid it and that's a problem. I explained to him how I feel and he took it like a man. He didn't get angry, nor did he make any excuses for his behavior.

Is it possible he's ready to grow up or am I just wishful thinking?
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:03 PM
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IMO trust is earned by building a track record of trust worthy behavior. He isn't there yet. You get to decide when his track record is long enough for you to trust him again. He's got a long ways to go.

Please consider postponing the wedding until you have this sorted out. Marriage complicates things enormously.

He is an alcoholic. There can be peaks and valleys but alcoholics can not moderate their drinking. My xah had many peaks where he really cut back on his drinking for whatever reason (new baby, job, house, some event) but when he slid back down into that valley it was a little deeper each time.

One things is for sure - alcoholism always progresses unless the alcoholic stops drinking forever.

ETA: Welcome to the group! There is so much support here. Stick around and I really got a lot out of the stickies at the top of the forum so if you have read them yet, check them out.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by upintheair View Post
At no point have I really been angry. The drinking scares the hell out of me. Even though I understand why he hid it from me(mostly because he was embarrassed) he still hid it and that's a problem. I explained to him how I feel and he took it like a man. He didn't get angry, nor did he make any excuses for his behavior.

Is it possible he's ready to grow up or am I just wishful thinking?
Keep reading this site, you will find help here.
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Old 03-22-2012, 05:29 PM
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When I was starting to tell my AH that I thought he drank too much I noticed that he started to hide how much he was drinking, Then, with glorious hindsight, I realized that he had always hidden how much he was drinking.

When I would tell him this he would take it like a man, no excuses and no false promises. And no change, just more hiding.

I don't think I've seen him actually drink for years although he is a daily drinker. It used to include drinking in the morning, but that has stopped after he detoxed for a couple of weeks in a hospital.

If I would have know this I would never have married him. Please consider putting the brakes on your plans. It's a lot cheaper and easier to change your mind before than after.

Sending kind thoughts your way.
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Old 03-22-2012, 06:14 PM
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Your situation sounds much like mine, and I speculate many others with alcoholic/addict partners. When we meet someone we’re getting to know who they are, what they’re about, what they believe. Two years is an ample amount of time to have a deep insight into who a person is. It sounds like there has been a progressive pattern of behavior. I saw that with my girlfriend too. We’ve dated for going on 8 months. There has been an undeniable pattern of ever increasing drinking/using followed by shorter and shorter periods of sobriety. We had all the same talks you mentioned in your post. It always seems that we’re in agreement on the severity of the situation, have an understanding of what needs to be done, and make declarations of renewed commitments. Sadly, the cycle begins again and we do it all over.

As wellnowwhat said, alcoholics/addicts are experts at hiding their use. My girlfriend ALWAYS TRIES to hide her drinking/using and ALWAYS lies about it if I make the foolish mistake of asking her about it. If your fiancé is really controlling his drinking that is wonderful. The thing I’ve come to realize, and that I’d suggest you consider, is that you CANNOT change or fix an alcoholic/addict’s using. “Others we cannot change, we can only love.” They have to want that for themselves. Often, as in my case, we actually harm their recovery with our loving good intentions. I’ve asked myself, “Can I accept my partner just as she is?” It’s a hard question and a large dose of reality. I hope for sobriety for her while acknowledging that relapses and all the horrible things that come with it are a very good possibility. Acceptance, for me, doesn’t disregard how I feel emotionally about the situation; it just means that I’m prepared to deal with the confusion, hurt, frustration, etc when I have to. It’s very important to have a healthy focus on your own well-being.

As for trust…well, we’ve all been there and probably still are. It’s quite unsettling how frequently my GF has been dishonest. I’d say 90% if it is related somehow to her use and the rest to her addictive personality. I deal with it by not allowing myself to become hyper vigilant (obsessed with her behavior and the legitimacy of it). That is part of acceptance. Of course there has to be a line. You know what you’re willing to accept and ABLE to forget. The brick that holds the whole thing together for me is that I have no doubt that my GF loves me. I find strength in that to continue to grow together and try to figure out this ever changing life. Good luck and take it slow.
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:13 AM
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Thanks for your replies.

The fact is I know he loves me. I don't take his drinking problem as a sign that he doesn't care about me. I realize that he has to want to make a change for himself, not for me.

Ever since I had the conversation with him I've asked myself if I'm doing the right thing. I've wondered if I should have just broken the whole thing off and told him I'm here for him if he wants it as a friend. I know full well I can't change him. A couple of times when he was on a bender he asked me if I would "cut him off" when I thought he'd had too much. I said in no uncertain terms that wasn't possible. I can't determine that for him. I'm not his mother and I don't want to be. Furthermore, while I know that that would be at his request, he'd grow to resent it. I'm not taking him to raise. If he doesn't know when he's had enough then he shouldn't even start.

The thing is I love him and I'm having a hard time just throwing someone away because they're flawed.
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:27 AM
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Deciding that someone is not the right person to spend your life with is not throwing them away.

You might look at it as setting them free.

I talk a lot about how damaging my xah's alcoholism was to our relationship because that is what this forum is for and that is the kind of shares people are asking for. It is a family disease and it shapes everyone in the family. The other side of the coin is that I was plenty dysfunctional all on my own and got more so. I caused plenty of wreckage on my own because it is not kind or loving to stay with someone you aren't meant to be with and have misgivings about. They have a right to marry someone that loves them without reservation just as much as we do. It is deceitful to do anything else. I was deceitful. I had a secret from my husband. A very dark and hurtful one - and I even hid it from myself most of the time. Denying such a thing could be true. It was 'I should not be married to you.' 'I do not like who you are.' 'You are not right for me.' Because the drinking is part of who they are. You can't separate them. Of course I never said any of those things out loud to anyone but he must have felt it in some way and how horrible is that.
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:06 AM
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I feel your pain. Watching someone kill their liver (and they are) is very sad and difficult. Not to put a damper on your BF's supposed sobriety, but chances are he just changed his choice of booze. Maybe vodka in his sprite or juice, something like that. He has probably perfected his technique of appearing sober.
If you have to ask someone to monitor your drinking, you have lost control. It is also a manipulative technique, one that he could use to blame YOU for him getting drunk. "I told you to cut me off, you know I count on you, it's your fault I got drunk, yadda yadda".
If he really is sincere in wanting to get married and staying sober, why don't you buy an alcohol testing kit from the drugstore? You can buy ones that test through saliva. Tell him you want to be able to trust him, and this will only reinforce for you that he is sober. If he balks at being tested, ask him, and yourself, why. It's a reasonable request given his history, and the fact that the rest of your life will be affected by whether or not he is still drinking.
Also, have you thought about what will happen if you have kids? If you can't trust him, how would you be able to trust him with an infant? A child?
Unless your BF makes an effort to get help, and continue getting help for his addiction, you do not have a future with him. It only goes from bad to worse. The good behavior is all a ruse to throw you off guard, because an alcoholics main goal each day is to drink. The fact that he has had to have "the hair of the dog" more than once shows that his problem is deeper than you realize. AND the fact that you came here looking for advice tells me that you already know he has a problem, you just need moral support to know that what you are feeling and thinking is ok.
Well, it is. Listen to your inner voice, it is rarely wrong. There is nothing wrong with leaving now and letting him get his life back on track. If you are important enough to him he will make the right choices. If not, then you know that he has become his own worst enemy. If you are meant to be together, it will happen. Anything worthwhile is worth waiting for, and you are worth the wait. Don't you let him make you forget it. Hugs to you and prayers.
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:08 AM
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I totally agree with that, Thumper. When we first began our relationship it was entirely predicated on our complete honesty with one another. He put himself up to be mature, and self-reflective.

That is why I've tried my best to be completely honest with him about my misgivings. He's been quite hurt that I haven't said to him "no matter what we'll be together". I've told him instead that I can't be with someone I can't trust.

He does deserve to be with someone who loves all of who he is. I've been honest with him about the fact that I don't like excessive drinking. What I meant by throwing someone away is that I felt I needed to tell him what my boundaries are and let him decide for himself if that was someone he wants to be with. Before I marry him I will either decide I can and will accept all of who he is or I won't marry him and I will set him free. I thought it would be best to lay it all out there so that if I decide I can't be with him it won't come as some shock. I don't want to be dishonest.
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:19 AM
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That sounds really good. You are being smart. The only thing I will add before leaving the thread is that you state your boundaries (or know them in your head) and then watch. *You* decide who you want to be with. Your life is not his decision you see? There is such a HIGH chance that he is going to say 'Well of course I decide to be with you. Of course I will moderate my drinking. Of course I accept your boundaries." and whether he really means it or not he can't keep that promise or stick to that decision if he has a drinking problem. He just can't. He will become deceitful or resentful or both.

You either marry someone with a drinking problem and accept all the truths of alcoholism, or you do not.

Read read read. You are so smart in identifying this concern of yours now and for getting information now. Read all the stickies at the top, learn all you can about alcoholism. It is very important that regardless of what he is willing to accept or know about his drinking - that you are fully aware of what alcoholism means for you and your future before making this decision.
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Old 03-23-2012, 07:44 AM
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Yes, Thumper. He made promises that he'd not take me for granted anymore. I told him not to make promises he can't keep. "Oh, but I will keep them", he says. Okay, time will tell. I know that in that moment he really does have good intentions. But you know what they say about good intentions....the road to hell and all that.

The reason I can be somewhat calm and collective and reflective of all of this is because I was married for twenty years to an abuser. He didn't drink, but was abusive in every way possible none-the-less. I've read and re-read "Codependent No More". Think I'll have to dust it off again.

The thing is I'm really a pretty independent person these days. I just didn't know if ever an alcoholic really does hit a place and say "yeah I need a change". This is the song he's singing. He's making this change for himself. He doesn't want to be a stupid little man. He wants better for himself. I did ask him if he's doing this for me, for the relationship. Had he answered yes I would have ended it right there because that is the wrong answer. I don't want him to do it for me.

Last weekend when we were talking about it he said he knows I didn't "put my foot down" to be hurtful. He said I had every right to set a boundary there. Then he said he knew I was only looking out for his best interest. To which I responded, "You need to understand, I'm looking out for MY best interest as well." The look on his face revealed he was a bit shocked by that, but I've developed an honesty being the best policy approach.
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Old 03-23-2012, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by FedUpWith2Brats View Post
The fact that he has had to have "the hair of the dog" more than once shows that his problem is deeper than you realize.
Actually that is precisely what made me realize he had a bigger problem than I realized, and I think maybe even bigger than he realized. When I witnessed it I thought, "that cannot be normal".


Originally Posted by FedUpWith2Brats View Post
AND the fact that you came here looking for advice tells me that you already know he has a problem, you just need moral support to know that what you are feeling and thinking is ok.
Certainly, because while my dad was a weekend alcoholic, he died when I was twelve. So I don't really have that much experience with this type of thing. I was also pretty submerged in fundamentalist religion for the twenty years of my marriage, so that also feeds into my thought process pretty heavily. While I've been able to "shake" a lot of that, I still encounter self-doubt quite regularly. "Am I thinking about this rightly?" "What if I'm wrong?" I've pretty much learned that it's okay to be wrong. What a novel idea, eh?

Originally Posted by FedUpWith2Brats View Post
Well, it is. Listen to your inner voice, it is rarely wrong. There is nothing wrong with leaving now and letting him get his life back on track. If you are important enough to him he will make the right choices. If not, then you know that he has become his own worst enemy. If you are meant to be together, it will happen. Anything worthwhile is worth waiting for, and you are worth the wait. Don't you let him make you forget it. Hugs to you and prayers.

Thanks. I did need this reminder. I keep telling myself that I deserve better for myself than to accept unacceptable behavior. He does too.
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:18 AM
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Yes, you can keep doing the old-fashioned way – grieving, crying, suffering self-esteem issues, suffering survival, life and security fears, and feeling totally disconnected from life, love and living for extended periods of time. Some women grieve and don’t recover for years, decades or quite frankly ever…

OR

You can untangle the illusions, see the truth, own it, accept it, and get moving into the creation of your real life, and working diligently on yourself in order to create True Love.
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