JCE36

Hi All...I am new to this, so bare with me.

A couple of months ago I met a great man. We connected immediately and feelings and emotions starting soon after we met. It was like we had been waiting for each other and finally found each other. He has been honest about his recovery, just hit the one year sober mark.

We haven't know each other very long, however, we feel this draw to each other. In the beginning, he was very open about his feelings for me. Kept asking me to jump with him, let go, let it happen. That we were put in front of each other for a reason. I truly believe that it was a gift, us meeting. However, the closer he got to the year mark, the more he pulled back. Every time we got close to being intimate, he would say he needed more time. I pressed him, and he said it is because he needs to get his life together, and that since he does have strong feelings for me, he insists he is not lying about that, intimacy is a little more frightening. I am the first woman he has feelings for since being sober. I believe that I may have pushed him away, as he has been asking for a "few more days" for a couple of weeks, and I finally pressed him. His response was that he needed more time and if it meant I needed to move on, than he can't help that. Problem is I don't want to move on. I am falling in love with him, and from what he had said to me, he is falling for me as well. We have spoken about being together long term. I am confused as to the process. I don't understand why he would back off, when all I want for him is to be healthy and stay committed to his sobriety and get his life back in order. Is it that he doesn't want to rely on me? Is that part of the steps in recovery?

He has told me that he needs to be selfish right now and that my patience is the key to our future. I guess I am struggling with why he would back off, when it feels so good to be near each other. He says that he has not lied about his feelings for me. And that he remembers he believes it is a gift. I just don't get it.

Any help/insight is appreciated!

Florence

In my experience, life with an RA means prioritizing the RA's needs, even when they're confusing and even when you don't want to. What I see in this story is this: he is drawing a boundary with you and you are asking him to relax that boundary because Love and Gift. My advice, take it or leave it, is to research the recovery community, the language and methods employed by recovering addicts and their families, and decide whether you want to jump in or not. If you stay with this guy, you owe it to yourself AND HIM to know what you're getting into, and you need to have a healthy sense of what "No" looks like and how to respect it.

Charon

His recovery has to come first. In recovery we are told not to make ANY important decisions for at least a year. Also, the 1st year anniversary acts as a trigger for some and it is a dangerous time. Ambivalent feelings about drinking, thoughts that maybe we could drink normally, etc. It is a very precarious time.

If your relationship is meant to be, it will be. If not there is nothing you could do. Putting pressure on him could easily drive him away or give him an excuse to relapse. Were I you I would back off, slow down, chill out, and let things happen at a pace that is comfortable for him.

It sounds like neither of you has much relationship experience and you seem (not trying to be hurtful - just honest) to be somewhat needy and insecure. Right now he is struggling with his own supreme need - to stay sober. He can't be expected to deal with your needs on top of that.

This probably isn't what you want to hear but it is totally honest and well meant.

JCE36

Florence....I have begun to do some research, and I do realize that he is not in a position to address my needs at this time. He needs to make is recovery a priority. I understand that now....he has been telling me he needs time, but without the explanation behind it. My issue is that he is the one that originally asked me to jump, not be scared....once I did it was WAIT!!!....My heart won't let me walk away. Just need to work on my patience.

m1k3

Why would you want to start a relationship with someone with an addiction?

Having been married to an alcoholic for a long time I do not recommend it.

Your friend,

JCE36

Thanks....hard to hear but true. I do have relationship experience. Just getting out of a 20 year marriage. He was with a woman for several years as well. Neither of us was looking for a relationship right now. Me due to my divorce, him due to his sobriety. Things just happen. And yes, you are correct....needy and insecure. Years of a terrible relationship. I am trying to work on that....perhaps that is one of the reasons God put us in front of each other....to help me become a better person through patience. After doing some research, I realize that I need to choke back my feelings of insecurity and let go and trust that what he has said about his feelings for me is true. VERY hard for me to do, but we are all works in progress! My main focus now, is him and doing what is best for him. But how do I know what is best for him? Do I back off completely, keep checking in every couple of days? He says he needs time, but hasn't said if he wants me to just back off. Trying to go back to the lightheartedness that it was in the beginning....just fun and playful. But he is drawing back even further. He also struggles with mild depression. I am worried that if i back off totally, he will feel like I don't care for him. I just want him to understand that I am there for him and that I can help him through this. With love, patience and understanding. I don't want to change him, just want to explore what we both feel.

JCE36

Mike. I did not know him before he became sober. The man I know is strong, compassionate, kind, loving, and beautiful. Every person deserves a chance at being happy.

Caz12

I agree that everyone deserves the chance to be happy but just please be wary.
We've all had relationships with addicts and they are not pretty. I left mine 5 weeks ago after 2 years of hell! I will never have another relationship with an addict or recovering addict because all it takes is one drink and it's straight back to hell.
Really educate yourself on Alcoholism not just the effects of the addict but the effects it has on you.

m1k3

You are right, every person deserves a chance to be happy. I suggest you focus on yours. You are barely starting as a couple and the effects of his drinking are already starting to affect you, even though he is not drinking.

You can't begin to imagine how bad it can get if he would start drinking again and that is a very real possibility.

That is just my experience. My wife had periods of what I thought were recovery, had more than one detox, multiple rehabs, periods of time not drinking ( but she made up for that by abusing sleeping pills), visits to the emergency room and all sorts of other "fun" stuff.

You have an opportunity to avoid all of that right now by simply paying attention to his actions and not his words.

Words:
Actions:
As someone with tons of experience dealing with an alcoholic the signs are pretty clear to me. If it was me I would run away.

Your friend,

JCE36

Mike.....why run away. He is being honest with me that he needs more time. I agree, actions speak louder than words......for a person who is not struggling with their own demons. He has not said he wanted to end it. That is something he promised he would do. He has also said I need to be patient with him. How can I run and stay true to my heart? He tells me he cares for me. Why would I abandon him for needing more time. I get he is scared...I am scared to due to my own past.

Florence

JCE, I know that what we are saying is coming off as mean and defensive, but the reality is that life with an addict, even a recovering addict, is extremely difficult for the loved ones. Relapse is extremely common. Mental illness and maladaptive relationship skills are par for the course for the addicts AND their friends and family, even after sobriety. It takes real, difficult, sustained work to get healthy for all parties involved. Getting into a relationship with him means accepting the emotional chaos that you are experiencing right now. Indefinitely. For the duration of your relationship. With the possibility that he'll relapse hanging over everything you plan.

I'll be honest, it sucks. My RAH is doing well and it still sucks.

Florence

And I should add, as I always do, taking a page from Cyranoak...

If I knew then what I know today, I never would have married him. I love him dearly, we have known each other since we were children, we have children together, he has made a concerted effort to get clean and has been successful at it. But if I'd had a way to see what our marriage would look like after ten years together, drunk, sober, or otherwise, I would have walked away then and not regretted a thing.

There is more than one man in the world that can make you happy.

JCE36

Florence....I feel the same way about my first husband, who was not an alcholic, but was mentally and verbally abusive (hence my neediness and wanting to be validated). And I get there is more than one man. But sometimes God and fate interveen. Neither one of us was looking, but when we met, it was like...."Where the hell have you been and why did you wait so long to find me.".....We laughed about it. But the draw is unexplainable. We can't even try to explain it, other than it was what God intended.

I really feel in my heart he is dedicated to staying sober. He has told me it is his number one priority. He has a great support system with his family. I just wish he would put me on that list as well....he says he knows I am here for him, but I wish he would use me as a shoulder. He doesnt need to be alone and go through it alone. Maybe that is why I was put in front of him. Maybe he just needs time to come to that realization. He told me he had gotten into a very bad habit of not answering to anyone or needing anyone. PATIENCE......or am I just being naive. I really do care for him, and I have to believe he has not lied about his feelings for me.

m1k3

OK, my last post. Why run away? Because I have been where you are and I know what might come next. You are betting that 1, he won't relapse and 2, if he does your love will help him get back to recovery and 3, that he loves you.

In my experience of having been married to an alcoholic, in and out of recovery, all three of these are bad bets.
1. The chances of relapse are high. My AW once went several years without drinking but she relapsed again.
2. Once she relapsed she went right back to the hard core drinking. No social drinking and no gentle slid back into alcoholism. No way. She was back to drinking big time.
3. People who are alcoholics and in early recovery (BTW he just might be hiding his drinking which is why he is backing off some) are still learning to deal with their emotions and thought processes sober. He is not really in a position to know if he really loves you. His feelings are still too raw and too new.

Lastly everything you said that he said I have heard before from my soon to be ex-wife.

You don't realize it but you are standing at the gates of hell, and I mean that literally, wondering if it is a good idea to go in there. There are bunches of us here who thought the same thing and then did. I spent years trying to get out. You are taking a chance that you could be entering a world of pain and hurt and despair.

Have you noticed not a single person here said "That's a good idea getting involved with an alcoholic!".

So, my advice is still run away. The chances of things going very, very badly is much higher than them going right. You have invested very little in this relationship to date and this is a good time and place to end it.

As they say in al-anon:

Take what you want and leave the rest.

FindingJoy

JCE36

Please read some of my posts. Just click on my screen name.

My RXAB has been in sober for 9 months it would have been almost a year but he relapsed on cough syrup with codine from my fridge and never told anyone. I foud out when I got sick and needed cough syrup...it was all watered down. He STILL wouldn't admit to it even with the evidence in front of him. Kept the lying up for hours....finally he admitted it but didn't tell sponsor or AA. Who knows if he ever has.

You see we have no idea what people do when they aren't around us that's why there is trust. With an A or RA it's smarter and safer to assume they lying at least early in recovery.

My ex will do ANYTHING to get me back, be a total sweetheart, professing love of his life, etc...once I've let him back in he pushes me away. EVERY TIME. He is aware of this behavior but it still happened. Clearly he has some deep intimacy issues and there's nothing I can do "fix" them. What I can do is not put my self in that position until his actions show there has been significant progress. I need to let go that this progress may never happen.

I do believe that RAs want love and believe a lot of what they say but when it comes down to getting what they want it scares the crap out of them and they often push it all away.

Hope this helps.

lillamy

I just read through my post and realized it sounds harsh -- but trust me when I say, I'm basing most of this on how I got stuck in the alcoholic marriage I was in for 20 years, and the hard-earned lessons of getting out of it:

He is telling you what his needs are; you just don't like what he's telling you. That is not the way I would want to start a relationship, by trying to pressure any person to back away from what they need to stay healthy, addict or not.

I came out of an abusive marriage, too, and I know how down in the dumps your self-confidence can be. But you can't use another person to build that up again. That's all you. Your worth and value as a person doesn't change based on whether other people act the way you want them to. You are immensely valuable and worthy. Whether you have this man's full attention or not.

Another thing that raises red flags for me is that he says things like That was him trying to get you to back away from what your needs are.

Somehow, that sounds more like a negotiation than a relationship to me. More like trying to find out "how much can I get from you?" than "are we compatible? do we like the same things? Do we respect each other?"

I'm about as romantic as a block of concrete, but I think infatuation and emotional need are dangerous things -- a form of insanity, really, (very pleasant, mind you) and not a solid foundation for making decisions. I also think (and I'm a Bible-believing Christian who am convinced God has plans for our lives and all that) that when you start saying "God placed us in each others' way" you add a level of inevitability to your relationship that limits your awareness that every step you take is a choice.

What you feel in your heart about his sobriety, has no bearing on reality. He will stay sober if he chooses to.

And:
He DOES need to go through his recovery alone. If you try to help him, you will hurt him. And yourself.

Also, consider this in the quote above: You desperately want this man to prioritize you, even over his own health and well-being (because your love is enough and he shouldn't need anything else? That's how I was thinking in my relationship with two different alcoholics.). He's not who you want him to be; you want to change who he is to fit your needs.

Florence

I used to say that fate threw my RAH and I together. It felt inevitable and right back then.

Thanks to managing my own emotional health, I realize that this is what I told myself to make up for chasing after yet another emotionally unavailable man.

You can do what you want to do. His recovery is his alone. You can't "help" him be sober. He can't heal the abuse you suffered from your ex. You're really concentrating on what he says versus what he does, and frankly, all your answers are right there. He says one thing and does another.

Neutrally, recovery or no recovery, saying one thing and doing another is a terrible foundation for a relationship. There are red flags all over the place. Heed them. You deserve to be with someone who is capable of meeting your emotional and physical needs. He's not there. There's no judgement in that, but he's just not there and he's telling you so. Listen to him.

Thumper

i believe this is a mistake. Your focus should always be squarely on yourself. You be the best person you can be, make the best life you can, and the other pieces will fall into place. The only thing you can do for him is focus on yourself, be as healthy and stable as possible.

That is never going to happen. You can never get back to that place.

But you can't help him. If we could help those we love get and stay sober this forum would not exist.

Give this some careful thought. You want him to behave and/or think differently. That is changing him. If I could only go back in time and convince myself to a) not start in on the slippery slope of accepting things that do not work for me and b) not stick with someone based on compassion and the always elusive 'potential' of them or the relationship I would have made better decisions regarding all people, alcoholic or not. I am striving now to really learn how to make decisions about who is in my life based on staying true to myself (and figuring out again who I am and what I need) and truly accepting people as they are in this moment.

I disagree. Actions are always louder. They are the reality. My ex-husband had a lot of really good qualities and made a lot of really amazing promises. I married him after all and not because he was an azzhat but because of the good qualities and the shared dreams. The painful reality was that my life was based on his actions, not what was in his head or heart. If he can't act on those things, I do not experience them. My only experience was his actions. I became a very confused woman because my head space was wrapped up in his words and my physical space (my reality) was his actions.

I left a very stable and together man to date my xah. My xah and I seemed like such a good fit. I was at ease. I could laugh and he made me feel good/accepted/OK. In hindsight that was two broken people coming together and all our broken pieces happened to be a match. Just because we fit didn't make us less broken and it sure as heck didn't make us 'whole'. It felt easy because it was familiar. I was 'at home' with someone broken. I was a fish out of water with the stable guy. It felt all wrong. Something to consider.


This called out to me. I spent years living a fantasy in my head 'because I had to believe' that the man I married would always put me first, that the man I chose to be a father for my children would surely step up and provide for them, that the man I married would never become the person in front of my eyes. That he was not lying when he promised all those things, when we talked about all the dreams we shared.

I actually don't think he was lying but he could not or would not act on those words and promises. They were fantasy - for both of us. He believed them just as much as I did and perhaps that is why he was so convincing.

ODAT63

JCE36,
my heart goes out to you, go to al-anon meetings, you are already feeling the effect alcoholism has on people, sounds like you are dating my ex, he was charming, loving, "romantic" but boy..once he had me in his enchanment, it was all over, the nightmare took place and it was 15 years of hell, always hoping that the man I fell in love with will comeback, sex did not get any better either, he just wanted someone near him but he could not be my emotional support, it was a roller coaster. I have been in much pain since my divorce but my life and the life of our children is so much better now that alcoholism is not present in our lives, I do not think GOD put us together, I think is was the devil because it was pure hell.
Getting enough crumbs of affection to keep me around and I was giving everything to him, always fighting the alcohol for first place, I became addicted to its emotional tentacles of hope. I pray to never, ever again date another adict....NEVER.

LaTeeDa

Just out of curiosity, have you done any meaningful work on this, like with a therapist?

L