miamifella

I may not be posting this in the right place since it is about how non-12-stepper interact with 12-steppers. Also, I have asked this before but never got an answer. But I think Newbies can benefit the most from this question.

I am not in a 12-step program (but was in the past). Is it okay to talk to people who are in 12-step recovery about recovery when you encounter them in normal life? I have met people through work and through friends who I saw in meetings years ago. I am never sure if I can acknowledge this or not. Would it be a violation of anonymity to acknowledge this?

GirlFromCO

I think I remember reading something about this on AA's website... there are guidelines, from what I remember

miamifella

I have looked for guidance on the internet on this in the past and could not find it. I also never heard this discussed at meetings.

I think what this really is about though is that I would like to form personal relationships with people in recovery f2f. I never could when I was in 12-step programs, I think because I am pretty honest about when I am having trouble. But I wonder if now that I am no longer "in the fold" if that is possible.

sugarbear1

Breaking anonymity is when we tell someone another person's full name, and mention AA. Telling someone you have a problem and would like to ask their opinion isn't breaking any tradition.

Ask them out to coffee or lunch. If you are on a one to one talk, without anyone overhearing, I don't see any problem in talking with them. You don't have to remind them about any meeting (if they were sober, they probably remember you). They might ask you to join them in attending a meeting, though. Don't feel obligated to attend, unless you really want to go.

Best Wishes,

miamifella

Thank you. I am not interested in going to meetings. Maybe its because I am a depressive anyway, but they really just make me feel so alone and hopeless that they do not help. I used to go because I thought they toughened me up, but at what a price? When I started leaving meetings in the middle to call my dealer (instead of waiting for the end), I realized that it was not working for me.

When I have run into people from meetings at the grocery store, etc. they have always been nice--which surprised me because meetings were so much like high school and most people were pretty unfriendly. I wonder if people are just nicer away from the cliques and atmosphere. But I never spoke to someone about recovery outside of a meeting so I did not know what was acceptable.

sugarbear1

I mentioned NOT feeling obligated to go to a meeting, but asking someone out for lunch or coffee and talking? That is doable!

miamifella

As long as they don't expect me to only say upbeat strong and hopeful things like in meetings! I think SR has spoiled me and got me used to sharing everything--the good, the bad, and the ugly included.

But heck, it cannot hurt to ask folk to talk...

miamifella

I think I am feeling this because this is not enough. Posting to public boards is very well and good, but I do not have any personal relationship to any addict. I never have. Even when I was using, I did not.

I know that there is a degree of loneliness in recovery that is inevitable--no one can recover for you. But I just hate reminding my friends that I am an addict. I don't want to share with them anymore. And even though I got yelled at for sharing weakness and doubt in 12-step meetings, at least getting yelled at was some kind of contact.

I guess this is just an awful day.

sugarbear1

alcoholics tend to treat loneliness with isolation. we need each other and there's something to a voice, a handshake, or a hug that technology can't do so easily.

I wish you well,

miamifella

I always thought alcoholics were social--going to bars etc. I figured that is why AA worked so well for them. I never had a problem drinking but always liked AA better than the other fellowships because people were more engaged with each other and less harsh.

sugarbear1

I've found most people in AA used alcohol to "be social." Most of the people I know are shy or quiet people....some have gotten over some of their shyness, others are still working on it. I'm grateful to have the people I do have in my life who have taken me through the steps--my shyness was my major reason for drinking. We learn how to engage with each other by sharing our inner selves before and after meetings. It's a process. We feel closer to others with intimate chats and in the meeting sharing. Not sure if you are still going, but if you aren't, maybe go with a different mind set and observe. Just a bunch of really big children sitting in a room trying to grow up!

On your other post you mentioned getting yelled at for sharing how you felt, that isn't the kind of sobriety I want; seems like those who yell aren't working a program of recovery, in my opinion. I don't go to AA to be yelled at. I go to stay stopped and to relate to another's experience.

sugarbear1

I just saw you mentioned the yelling again. I know I yelled out of fear (in my drinking days I was an angry person, I was really full of fear and self centeredness).

I think your words touched someone's nerves and instead of talking to you about their experience, the pain they felt came out in yelling the "wrong words" to you. Not sure, but I'd tell them I didn't want that kind of sobriety.

There's no peace in yelling. It's not helpful. Sounds like that person hasn't worked on their steps very well, in my opinion.

Can you find a different meeting? Or talk to that person on a one to one basis to find out what they meant or what their experience has been?

So sorry you had to experience that, but that isn't sobriety in my dictionary!

miamifella

Yelling may be the wrong word. I was not literally screamed at. But I was spoken to on a few occasions for not sharing the positive "experience strength and hope" that the program encourages. These were not the emotional responses that you indicate. Most groups have a few people with a few years that are the guardians of the program and it is pretty common for them to critique folk after meetings. (I probably would have gotten more of these "critiques" if I had not learned to run out the door right after the meeting before they button-holed me. Eventually though I just stopped speaking, since I felt I was there to learn anyway and truly did not have any solutions to offer others.)

However, after seven years I left in large part because I feel that asking members to share experience, strength and hope the program encourages dishonesty since most people in meetings are there because they are feeling weak and fearful.

This consistent in all the meetings I attended in a few different South Florida cities.

To be fair the only person who actually yelled at me in the sense of screaming at high volume was a sponsor who was upset because I was going on a trip to a place where I did not know anyone who was in the program.

miamifella

Sorry. That all sounded harsher than I meant it to. I just wanted to make it clear that it was ongoing, systemic problems that I took issue with, not just individuals flying off the handle.

eJoshua

I'm not sure I really understand your objection to AA...

But, I would say that being alone is a lot different than being lonely, solitude is a lot different than isolation. I don't think that being lonely or isolating yourself is normal, natural or healthy for anyone. So if you aren't going to get involved in a face to face support group, perhaps try to meet up with like minded people and develop friendships that you can rely on. No one can make it through life without some level of support.

sugarbear1

"most people in meetings are there because they are feeling weak and fearful."

Not sure I really understand this statement. I am not weak. I had fears, but I have been given the ability to see them and to not act on them, within a 48 hour time frame. I do understand this is your perspective, though.

I go to meetings to study the big book, to listen to other's share experiences, and to carry the message of hope to those who don't have any, yet. I haven't seen anyone berate another about what they share, no matter what comes out of their mouth. Again, I am sorry that this is your experience at AA.

miamifella

I guess that is the problem, sugarbear1. Sometimes you have to share when you feel weak or fearful. Sometimes you need to ask for help. But by insisting that we only share our strength, and hope and successes with each other--that just does not work for me.

You are lucky not to have seen anyone berate another for their share, but it is pretty common. Whenever I said that I was afraid I would use, I was told that it was my own fault or that I should be sharing solutions instead of problems. Reading online, I have learned the the "burning desire" time is supposed to be a time for people to ask for help if you think you are going to use. But have you ever heard anyone use it that way? Do people in meetings know that that is the point? (I never did.) I think after spending 59 minutes of having to put on a brave face, it is hard for anyone to switch gears for the last minute. I feel like that last minute should be the whole meeting.

I am sorry to go off, but I spent over seven years going to meetings and never got to be honest in that time.

While my friends have been supportive, I do not want to be "the addict" to them anymore. I think it is hard for them to hear that I still sometimes think of using. Of course, I do not use, but I know it upsets them for me to discuss it.

So here it is: I cannot talk about this stuff in 12-step programs and I do not want to discuss it with friends anymore. There is SR but it feels lonely to throw out these posts and wait to see if anyone wants to respond. It is not quite a real conversation.

Maybe I can talk about it to addicts if we are not meeting under the 12-step banner (so to speak). I do not know if anyone would be open to this since they may feel it goes against their program. But maybe some of them need to be honest too.

sugarbear1

Move up here. We do listen to what is really going on, almost to the extreme opposite of what seems to go on where you are.

Ouch!

Hugs,

miamifella

I honestly do not know what to believe. People say 12-step programs are different in other places---but then they claim to be honest and non-judgmental here as well.

When I first got clean I used to go to a place where meetings were usually 6 or less people. (Sometimes only meetings of 2!) That was actually the only time I encountered 12-step meetings that lived up to what it is claimed they should be. Also a meeting of about 5 or 7 that was not on any fellowship's schedule. It was just a bunch of guys who met in a room lent by a rehab after hours. Really terrific people, but I had transportation trouble getting there.

But I often wondered if the "unofficial" meetings are more in the spirit of what the fellowships profess to be than the ones that are on the official schedules.